VIDEO: This video will come as a shock to the LLLT industry. Produced by Dr. Feller of Great Neck, NY

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Dr. Siporin,

You have admittedly taken a "middle of the road" approach, so I separated out two lists of quotes from your post. The first are your anti-LLLT statements, and the second are your pro-LLLT statements:

 

Anti-LLLT statements from Dr. Siporin post:

 

1. First of all, I would like to say that there are no good scientific studies to date, which support the use of LLLT for hair growth

 

2. The studies which I have read are not great scientific studies, have low numbers of patients, or a combination of both.

 

3. I tell all of my patients that Laser therapy for hair growth may or may not work.

 

4. All patients need to know that the scientific evidence supporting LLLT in hair growth is sparse.

 

5. Patients should be offered LLLT as an adjunct to other therapies, with the clear knowledge that there is a good chance that they will not see significant improvement.

 

6. ...in fact, there are no studies what so ever which have established any protocol for LLLT, so we are really just winging it here.

 

7. On the other hand, if laser treatment is explained in detail, including the lack of great scientific studies, and the patient realizes that there is only a small chance that they will get significant growth, then I see no problem in that patient trying the treatment.

 

8. I think good scientific studies need to be done, but I am doubtful we will see these types of studies in the near future

 

Pro-LLLT statements from Dr. Siporin post:

 

1. Although I am not a huge fan of LLLT, I do believe, through thorough (sic) investigation of numerous clinics and scores of patient photos, that LLLT does actually work on a small number of patients.

 

2. I have seen patients who have had impressive results with LLLT, but the numbers are small, and by no means, do they represent a large percentage of patients.

 

 

Dr. Siporin,

If you look at the salient quotes from your own post you can see that your anti-LLLT sentiments outnumber your pro sentiments an astounding 4 to 1. So how can you advocate LLLT to your patients at all in light of this overwhelming ratio?

 

Furthermore, while your anti-LLLT quotes are factual and supportable, your Pro-statements are completely unsupported and incomplete. For example, did you see the patients in the flesh? Were they on FDA approved hairloss medications in addition to LLLT? Did they have medical histories that could account for their hairloss or regrowth? Were the number of patients you saw statistically significant? Did you take pictures of ANY of these patients?

 

I have asked you to post photos of your own patients who have benefitted from your laser hood. Would you please do so. If you haven't got any, perhaps it is time to reconsider your position on LLLT? You wouldn't be the first. Dr. Rassman gave LLLT a chance, and then dismissed it. So did Dr. Alexander. If you have first hand information that could change all of our minds we would all love to see them. This thread is up to over 5,000 views, so a lot of people are reading it. If you have some evidence to offer, please do so as NO OTHER LLLT doctor will provide it. If not, then perhaps you should seriously think about rejecting LLLT completely. I would love to add you to the list of "good guys": http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=150351

 

I have many reasons for rejecting LLLT, but the most convincing to me is the fact that the skin has an optical barrier to coherent light. That is, the epidermis and dermis are way too optically dense to allow laser light through to the follicles, therefore, LLLT can't work.

 

If I am wrong in this observation, would you please help me out by explaining it to me and the thousands of viewers tuning into this thread. Thank you, and I look forward to your response.

[Desperately Seeking Hair]

I tried the Hair max laser comb for about 6 months and got nothing out of it, except for a lighter wallet

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Desperate,

It is for people like you that I keep the pressure on LLLT. Out of all the patients who have visited my office claiming to have used a laser product for regrowing hair, not a single one has stated that it worked to ANY degree. ALL of them regretted wasting their money and time on these products. I believe they CAN'T work, and have demonstrated as much in the video demonstration.

 

Just because you have owned your lasercomb past the 12 week cut off that Hairmax allows you to return it for a refund, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get one. Call them and tell them about your experience and demand a refund anyway. There are many things you can do.

 

Tell them that you didn't know that OFTEN the "results" from their product are not demonstratable (sic) in photographs, and that if you had you would not have bothered to buy their product. After all, who in their right mind would buy a product after they were told by the manufacturer that "OFTEN" the results are cosmetically insignificant to the point that it isn't visible to the casual observer.

 

Another recourse is to call up your local newspaper and tell your story to a reporter. If it gets published, it may be picked up by other newspapers and so on.

 

The media has been very useful to the laser regrowth industry because they have been spoon fed pseudo-scientific gobbidy gook in order to report a "feel good" story, but once they learn they've been misled by a wide margin and that there are NO first hand verifiable photos posted by viewers on these forums, the press may finally turn on the industry.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Dr. Siporin saying that hes adding his two cents was worth exactly that.

What a shame. Another laser snake.

I sure hope his work is on par with the elite surgeons since he offers a transplant instead of refund .

Another doctor that will be watched closely.

Dr Feller you lose the bet you never agreed to, drink up.

[Desperately Seeking Hair]

I like lasers. They make great futuristic weapons like star wars phasers and light sabers

 

I may try to do as you suggested Doc Feller. Thanks.

[thanatopsis_awry]

The media conjoining with a pet-cause, together laying on a bed of $/power.....my parents got bilked out of ~$600; most importantly, I (and them, actually) had the pleasure of paying $ and wasting emotional/physical energy on false-hopes.

 

At a time when $ is valuable, and for people where emotional energy is sacred, LLLT is a disgrace and a disgrace that should be met w/ *zero tolerance*.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Thana,

Don't give up. It doesn't matter that you've owned your lasercomb past the "return" date. Send them a letter demanding your money back. Write your states consumer affairs commission and that of Floridas where your lasercomb was sold from. Call your local or regional newspaper and talk to a reporter. Call the local TV stations in your area that carried "feel good" stories about laser combs.I'm behind you, and so are most of the people on this thread.

 

Simply ask them in the letter how the laser from their product can get past the skins natural optical barrier. Also, tell them that if you had known that OFTEN the results from their product were NOT demonstratable (sic), as written on their website, that you would never have made such a purchase. Then publish your letter online and send it to a local newspaper.

 

Dr. Siporin,

Where are you?

As a physician who has made some VERY generous statements about LLLT we would like to ask you to expound on them and provide us with as much hard information as you can.

 

What do you think of Thana's situation? Is he entitled to his $600 back?

Why do you think LLLT didn't work for him?

 

Please resond Dr. Siporin. There are over 5,000 hits on this thread so ALOT of people are watching and waiting for your response.

[Optimus Prime]

Dr Feller,

 

Is it ideal to extend and invitation to this individual trichologist? To at the very least show some photos.

 

http://hairlossclinic.com.au/laser_therapy_in_house.html

 

Since they state on there site they

 

skilled, qualified professionals in LLLT and we invite you to experience our honest value.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Optimus,

Don't waste your time. Most if not all of their customers are already on one or two FDA approved medicines. Furthermore, they are not in a position to realease their customers significant medical histories that may be related to hairloss like steriod abuse, thyroid problems, or other hormonal system issues and medicines used to treat them.

 

The LLLT industry consists of a truly disgusting and ignorant group of people who have absolutely no problem taking advantage of suffering folks.

[Desperately Seeking Hair]

Anyone up for a game of laser tag? I always tell my opponent to aim for the bald spot

[FacelessMan]

Speaking (well, typing) as a layperson with no personal experience with a "LaserComb" or its equivalent, what stands out to me amidst the thousands of lines of text on the topic, on this forum, is the absence of what I think it's safe to say, in the early 21st century, pretty simple technology -- photos.

 

Dr. Feller and others have asked the question, but it bears asking again: where are the progress and before and after photos? On this site I can find massive numbers of day-of, one-month, six-month, two-year progress photos, some by physicians, others by patients, documenting the progress (or, in some regrettable instances, the lack thereof) of their or their patients' hair transplant procedures. Where are the analogous photos from laser-light therapy patients? Or HairComb users?

 

It seems odd read posts with hundreds of lines of scientific jargon, explaining in detail why the poster believes that LLT works, and yet absent from all this sophistication is something so simple that, with minimal photographic skill and zero training, I can create it by myself, in my bathroom, holding my mid-range digital camera above my head...

 

I can understand the appeal of what the LaserComb, and similar technology, promise. Hair transplants, are, after all, surgery. They involve at least some degree of pain, and to some extent, inconvenience. And with that, they demand patience. I can attest from personal experience that what Spex, and Jotronic, and Bill, and many others have asserted is true...it takes up to a year to see the fullest effect. That said, it can be a fun year, in a sense, seeing at least one part of the body appear to reverse in age...but it's still a year. And in the face of that, and the procedure itself, with injections, and incisions, and hours in a chair, and staples, I can certainly see how the concept of hair restoration via a painless and simple handheld device, or machine you can sit in, would be appealing...but that doesn't make it reliable, scientific, or proven. And at the risk of cynicism, I think that it's safe to say that appeals to insecurity and the inherent desire to avoid pain have been the basis of baldness "curing" scams for thousands of years. So with that, I personally look at the laser light treatment idea with a considerable degree of skepticism.

 

All that said, if it WERE proven that, say, the LaserComb could regrow or stop the loss of hair as well as or better than, say, Propecia or Rogaine, I'd still opt for the transplant, for the simple reason that I don't want my hair to be something I need another drug, or tool, or daily routine to keep...I would rather deal with the procedure and several months of a weird haircut, knowing that once I'm past that, it's done. But that is a personal preference.

 

I'd urge anyone considering laser therapy, in whatever form, to simply apply the same scrutiny that this site enables us to apply to transplants...look for photos that are consistent, clear, that show actual progress. Meet patients. And consider, again, that doctors speaking out against laser therapy have no incentive to do so; could they, as has been suggested here many times, not add money to their practice by selling treatments or reselling devices?

 

Benjamin

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Well said, Ben. Thanks for joining the discussion. This is a topic that will not and cannot go away until the doctors and industry leaders in the LLLT world come out from hiding and answer the very reasonable questions being put to them:

1.Where are the first hand photos of LLLT successes? I have yet to see a SINGLE one.

 

2. How can any LLLT product work when I have already shown surgically that laser light CAN'T pass down to the follicle because of the skins natural optical barrier?

 

Not a single LLLT doctor or industry representative will come on here and address those issues.

Only TWO LLLT doctors have come on this thread to date, and NEITHER of them could show us FIRST hand pictures of success using LLLT on their OWN patients, and YET they still have no problem selling LLLT for hundreds or thousands of dollars to their suffering patients?

 

I honestly don't know how they sleep at night.

[Bill - Seemiller]

John,

 

I can't tell if you are trying to be funny or finding new ways to insulte me. If it's the latter, I don't appreciate it.

 

Bill

[john36]

Once again a grown man has gutted his hair loss aids.

 

His laser comb lay scattered like scrutinized guts

 

On the table beside him, around the HT clinics ads

 

Somewhere in those parts??”are hidden rocket science facts

 

 

His blue copper veins pop up looking for proof

 

In the dark kitchen facing the window asking what's the catch?

 

Suddenly he notices how stars give real light to his house roof

 

and he gets it!!!And the house is as quiet as a broken watch

 

 

 

He knows the score??”nothing will ever be repaired again

 

Nothing will ever work as it did, he will not hope in vain

 

The dumb laser comb working without needles

 

says as much, as the needles raining in the yard.

 

The silence around his shoulder is his woman's arms

 

He feels her love and listen what she says

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Hairmax changed the wording of their before/after photo webpage yet again. To be sure they kept in the grammatically incorrect word "demonstratable", but they rearranged the text to be more confusing.

 

No matter how they butcher the english language to distort the true meaning of what they are compelled to communicate, the following line from their webpage still gets the message across to those who are not blined by the hype they've created or the wishful thinking desperate people tend to engage in when facing a crisis:

 

"Note, increases in hair counts are often not demonstratable in photos."

 

Translation: our product works, but OFTEN the results are cosmetically insignificant.

 

Why would ANYBODY buy this product?

[Vasilius]

Whoa, lots of venom on this thread.

 

Bill and I share a similar point of view on this issue. There is more to healthy hair growth than blocking DHT. Minoxodil's efficacy is believed to be related to increased blood/micronutrient supply to hair follicles, one of the suppositions behind LLLT. The therapy is not yet proven, but not discounted either IMHO.

 

As to the argument over commerce, if nothing sold for financial gain is to be trusted, we'd all be living like cavemen. The computer I'm using was sold for profit, yet it obviously works. 'Nuff said.

 

Cheers-

AF1

[Dr. Alan Feller]

AF1

Unfortunately there were many attempts to take over this thread by LLLT advocates, all of whom poured as much venom into this thread as they could in a cowardly effort to discredit the truth of the video demonstration and myself.

 

The bottomline is the LLLT simply CAN'T work. The LLLT industry made a big mistake overlooking the basic physics of lasers and now they are way out on a limb. That's why not a SINGLE LLLT industry representative nor LLLT doctor has publicly refuted or opposed the video. They are in hiding.

 

Several of the statements you wrote are factually incorrect:

 

1. There may well be more to healthy hair growth than blocking DHT, but the mechanisms involved will not, and are not, affected by red light. Only the most uninformed wishful thinking would even allow for such consideration.

 

2.Minxoidl's efficacy is NOT believed to be related to increased blood/micronutrient supply to hair follicles. That is simply NOT true. If it were, then and and ALL anti-hypertensive medications would be useful in the restoration of hair. They aren't. Minioxidil stands alone as the only one affecting hair follicles beneficially. Nobody, not even the manufactuers of minoxidil know it's mechanism of action.

 

3. LLLT does not increase vascularity as you wrote. It just doesn't. The amount of energy coming out of a 5mw 650nm laser pointer is phsyiologically insignficant UNLESS you are shining it in your eye- which won't grow hair nor improve your vision, so I recommend you don't do it.

 

4. If a theory is not proven, then it is by default discounted. That is the basic premise of science. The rest is just conversation and hype-the foundation of LLLT lunacy.

 

5. Who wrote if something is sold for financial gain that it can't be trusted? I certainly know that I didn't. I'm an avowed and confirmed capitalist. But when companies like hairmax say their product can be trusted BECAUSE it is selling, then intellectual dishonesty is being used to lend credibility to a product that has not earned any. It's putting the cart before the horse.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

AF1,

I just found out that you are undergong LLLT with your HT doctor. Can you tell us who your doctor is and what he is charging you for the LLLT?

 

Can you also ask him why he believes LLLT is effective even though it can't pass through the skin's natural optical barrier?

 

Thank you.

Dr. F

[john36]

Originally posted by Dr. Alan Feller:

Hairmax changed the wording of their before/after photo webpage yet again. To be sure they kept in the grammatically incorrect word "demonstratable", but they rearranged the text to be more confusing.

 

No matter how they butcher the english language to distort the true meaning of what they are compelled to communicate, the following line from their webpage still gets the message across to those who are not blined by the hype they've created or the wishful thinking desperate people tend to engage in when facing a crisis:

 

"Note, increases in hair counts are often not demonstratable in photos."

 

Translation: our product works, but OFTEN the results are cosmetically insignificant.

 

Why would ANYBODY buy this product?

 

 

 

A man can be rational and irrational, depends how is he stimulated.

 

The example here with the marketing of Hairmax ,if you carefully observe Dr Feller ,is designed to hit on our emotional responses not our rational mind.

First is to create in us the "illusion" that the characteristics of Laser comb and situations depicted therein in its application to hair restoration actually exist.

 

But they don't spend much time data and persuasion on that first step. It is necessary step, but secondary, not primary.

 

The second step is the primary, and that is the advantages of Laser comb over other alternatives (cost, absence of side effects, practicality etc.)

 

So they place before the customer a premise to his rational mind (look we found cure for baldness)and then immediately divert the rest of their message to consumer to his emotional mind. Because they know that:

 

(1) that in order for us to be moved (to tears, to anger, to horror, to HOPE) by what we come to learn about various people and situations, we do not necessarily must believe that the people and situations in question really exist or existed;(one can watch fiction movie and feel those emotions ,,,one can imagine a hottie and.. ...and then .... ...etc)

We are talking about "willing suspension of disbelief," done subconsciously because on the end there is REWARD.

The REWARD applied to hair restoration in simple ....buy Hairmax and your grief over hair loss will cheap ,safely ,quickly be rewarded with pleasure of having hair again.

 

Dr.Feller marketing in USA long time ago switched from targeting our rationale to targeting emotions.

 

when i read what you say I know is true about Hair max.

I have one Dr.Steven Holt "consultant" convinced me to buy one from them for 400 dollars.Do you think I went to do research before I bought it?No i didn't.Why?Because offered instant gratification....

I used the thing one week....one year ago and tossed it away,note though, in my specific case,not because I did not believe in the product,but because of the abuse done on me by HT Industry decided to take the route of acceptance of my new look).

Dr.Feller my point is the potential consumers "wittingly refuse" to accept evidence against Hair Max because that does not " offer" happiness.

The force of this ,the fact that, most concerned hair loss sufferers think about the "believability" of effect of hair Max is what makes them pay for it and buy it again and again and again.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

AF1,

Why are you dodging the question?

I asked who your doctor was and you won't answer. Why is that?

[Dr. Alan Feller]

edited by author

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Recently the US Senate released a minority report refuting the scam of manmade 'climate change':

 

http://epw.senate.gov/public/i...ad-45f0-274616db87e6

 

 

The term 'climate change' has replaced the term 'global warming' because pesky facts, solid science, and common sense proving global COOLING keep ruining the doomsday scenarios of a small number of opportunistic scientists, power grabbing politicians, and enviro-whacos who profit from the public's ignorance and fear.

 

The parallels between the phony manmade global 'climate change' sham and the phony LLLT sham are hard to ignore. Left unchecked or unchallenged, intellectual dishonesty can and will result in losses that far exceed a few hundred bucks for a useless, but harmless, quack remedy.

 

Don't think so? In the case of environmental intellectual dishonesty and opportunism: How many BILLIONS of dollars have been wasted over the past 25 years converting from Freon-based coolants to Freon-free coolants? How much freedom did we give up by allowing the legislative creation of a 'toilet police force' that banned the use of 5 gallon toilets for the supposedly more 'enviro-friendly' 3 gallon commode?

 

In each case SCIENCE was DISTORTED to confuse the public to advance the agenda of a small group of opportunists. The same exact thing can be said of the LLLT industry. What more proof does anyone need other than the fact that not a SINGLE LLLT representative or doctor has come onto this thread to support their OWN positions?

 

At over 6,500 views this thread is BY FAR the number one discussion thread about LLLT in the WORLD, and yet its industry representatives REFUSE to hold themselves accountable to the public. It is through their purposeful silence that they not only indict themselves of the crime of intellectual dishonesty, but also flat-out insult the very people they call their potential customers: YOU.

 

Dr. Feller

[Dr. William Lindsey]

You think its bad now. Wait until that crazy European carbon trading scheme hits here. All of our electricity and fuel use will be "taxed" with a carbon fee.

 

Imagine the added cost of driving my SUV to get a LLLT treatment, when the poor LLLT clinic is competing with plug in cars for kilowatts.

 

LLLT will get so costly that transplants may be cheap by comparison...and transplants work.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[GreyHunk]

Originally posted by Dr. Alan Feller:

 

At over 6,500 views this thread is BY FAR the number one discussion thread about LLLT in the WORLD, and yet its industry representatives REFUSE to hold themselves accountable to the public. It is through their purposeful silence that they not only indict themselves of the crime of intellectual dishonesty, but also flat-out insult the very people they call their potential customers: YOU.

 

Dr. Feller

 

 

Dr. Feller.

 

I am not a doctor, but I am a scientist and I am very much into philisophy of science and practical aspects of scientific methodology, and most importantly, I am a SKEPTIC. A sceptic never denies, a sceptic doubts. A sceptic is a nonbeliever, not a disbeliever.

 

Your attitude seems a 100%http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoskepticism to me.

 

 

Specifically, your video demonstrates that the MECHANISM that some or maybe many of the LLLT proponents and sales material claim is wrong or paradoxical. But that's all this video does. This doesn't disprove the effectiveness. (argumentum ad logicam fallcy: because the argument is wrong, it doesn't mean that the argued claim itself is false).

 

In fact, in science we can actually substantiate effectiveness without having a firm theory on the mechanism. There are many examples, think of the placebo effect: it is accepted by science that the state of mind can have an effect on healing various diseases, without having the faintest idea on the mechanisms that make it happen.

 

So, you refuted one possible theory about the mechanism on how it works, but it doesn't prove that it does not. In fact, to do that, you'd need to go back to refute studies from 40 years ago that are published in peer-reviewed publications meeting the strictest criteria for scientific methods that recorded the effectiveness of LLLT for hair regrowth in mice. (1967, K?­s?©rleti orvostudom??ny [Kiserl Orvostud] 19 p.628-631)

 

All that said, I am not claiming that LLLT works. I am just raising my strong objections against your pseudoskeptic approach.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

OMG this guy is a crazy fool.

Is this John again? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ