VIDEO: This video will come as a shock to the LLLT industry. Produced by Dr. Feller of Great Neck, NY

[Bill - Seemiller]

Bill, maybe you could invite a laser physics expert on this thread to try to end this debate.

 

electricb,

 

Our forum is open to anyone to join and discuss this and other hair loss related topics. Therefore, if a laser physics expert would like to join in the discussion, they are certainly welcome to.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Ceasar08]

JDP---

I am glad that you are with the rest of us, and that we are all in agreement that the lasercomb is a total scam and rip-off.

It seems you are suggesting that there is a very specific type of laser helmet that can grow hair, and apparently, there are a whole host of guys out there who are building them in their homes.

 

The ideal situation would be to find a doctor who is completely on the fence when it comes to this matter. Someone who is honest, but really doesn't know what to think one way or another. You should make an arrangement with the guy to send him one of these contraptions and have him test it on his patients for free. Maybe Bill would be inetrested in facilitating such an experiment.

 

I have to be honest with you and say that the last photos you posted were very difficult for me to decipher. I can't say that I saw more hair in the "after" photos.

 

On a completely serious note... I did see the photos of some of the other guys on the other forums building their own laser contraptions. Forgetting about the debate at hand for a moment... I must give you guys credit for resourcefulness. I personally can't see myself building one of those things at home and sticking my head in it... I think I'd feel a little goofy.

 

I think I speak for all of us when I say that we would welcome more before/after photos from real people (not clinics).

 

Also, if you look at Dr. Feller's thread that lists the physicians who believe the laser to be quackery, you'll see that Dr. Alexander and Dr. Rassman have both stated they've used the machines without success. you might want to address some questions to them, if they are willing to partake in this discussion.

[jdp710]

Hello Ceasar08,

 

Thank you for helping me to find the answers from Dr. Alexander and Dr. Rassman. I tried navigating both of their websites but I couldn't find the exact answer. So, I went ahead and posted the question to the both of them on Dr. Feller's other thread. I can always e-mail them if they eventually don't answer.

 

BTW, does anyone know if hair transplant surgeons who use clinical laser devices are only using the machines on their customers for only a couple weeks? The reason why I ask is because I haven't followed the progression of hair transplant surgeons recommending LLLT. I hope they are not giving it to their customers for only a couple weeks. The reason why I say is because it takes months to see improvement. I've even seen some testimonials that they won't get improvement for 6 months but in my opinion that's directly related to how many laser diodes are in the machine and other factors.

 

Also, if you're curious I have also heard another story of clinical laser devices not producing results. However, it was due to getting too many joules causing a bioinhibition. Also, I've heard of other DIY helmets not showing much results but from every one of them, it appears they were not doing the correct treatment times ... user error.

 

 

Oh, as far as my pictures. Don't forget to look at my pictures on page 4. Those pictures are the ones from a week ago. The ones on this page were from 5 weeks ago. And don't look at my hair around my hands where I'm pulling my hair back... there is little regrowth. Look at the sides of my head.

 

And to answer your question, yeah, there is a "whole bunch" of people building their own laser helmets. It's easy Most all of them don't care to take part in debating but a lot of them will give a testimonial. If anyone wants, just go to regrowth.com and ask a question.

 

As for making an arrangement about making one and let someone else try it out I do 100% agree that that's a good idea to test the validity. The problem is I don't have that kind of money to lend to strangers even if they are a Dr. that I don't know. Not to mention I don't need 2 laser helmets I know another forum member has posted something like that in the past ... I think he has more money than me Besides a Dr., I feel a very knowledgeable, respected and unbiased forum moderator would also work. However with me I'm eventually going to retire from every hair loss forum. Actually, I wasn't even coming to this forum to give my testimonial. My goal in coming here was to finish debating Dr. Feller as it looked like he left the debate early. Anyway about me, I'll eventually pop on and post my progress pictures, but it's "very" tiring answering everybodies questions when I don't make a penny from it. I really am posting all this out of the goodness of my heart and eventually I'll leave these forums as I've already stopped my hair loss. However, I will be sure to post progress pictures on this forum in say 2 months or so. I'll even post them weather they don't show any further improvement or not.

 

Oh, if you're curious I've recently completed a new, better laser helmet. Here's a picture of it. It has 215 laser diodes in a hard hat. The way I treat my hair is I use it for 18 minutes and then I have to flip it over to the back of my head for another 18 minutes. Doing this actually gives me the equivalent of 430 laser diodes with no overlap. If you're curious, I very much believe, the more diodes the better. With this helmet, you wouldn't believe how much blood is flowing through your hair follicles! It's definetely nothing to do with heat but actually feels nice. Some people have described the feeling as a "head pump" and that pretty much sums up the feeling. Anyway, as for my laser device, I've actually built 6 devices before starting with as little as 34 laser diodes and I've experimented with various parameters to find out what works best. H

 

Here's a pic of what my current laser helmet looks like on the inside if you're curious.

 

 

It's ugly, but IMO it is the best laser device that you can get and it even trumps clinical laser devices by a "long" shot, in my opinion.

 

 

Ugg, I have to stop typing these long threads.

 

hope this helps

[Dr. Alan Feller]

These will probably work better for you:

 

 

Make sure to give them plenty of healthy laser light and water.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I thought my picture on the last page was perfect but this is beautiful.

Hes trying hard but we all know hes wasting his time.

NO ONE WILL FALL FOR ANYMORE LASER TREATMENTS

I like him for some reason.

Let him have his fun . Hell get tired of people not really caring

[jdp710]

PLEASE GROW PLEASE,

 

Hes trying hard but we all know hes wasting his time.

 

 

That's a bit harsh when I've already told you my testimonial that it works! It works better than any DHT blocker internally and externally I have ever tried and way better than minoxidil, caffeine, supplements, etc..

 

Anyway, I'm off this forum now.

 

It doesn't look like anyone has anymore questions for me.

 

And I'm sure Dr. Feller in a couple months will go back to his old statements that nobody will debate him when he won't even debate me

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Well your right that was harsh.

Your not wasting your time . If you feel it has helped you then Im really happy for you .

Your not trying to sell this helmet to anyone so I apologize..

I wish this worked for the rest of us.

Dont take my post like your not welcome here .

You certainly are .

Keep us updated on all the recent pics you can find with your new discovery

[Ceasar08]

Jdp--

If you have nothing to sell or promote, and you're honestly just a guy trying to grow your hair back, then I wish you all of the best of luck.

There is nothing that all of us would like more than another treatment that actually produces results.

It's important for people to know that the hand held laser devices being sold are a complete waste of their money. I wish there was a way for me to refund mine.

[Dr. Mohammad Humayun Mohma]

I think this debate will ever end.

 

Just like some time back people thought that one computer was enough for whole world and that was as big as a one big room. Now we see so many powerful computers at the palm of our hands.

I respect JDP and other people including Dr Fellers point of view.

I have never said or believed to say that LLLT is enough. It can only improve a bit, les say even if that is meagre 5% to 10%, that is good enough for me. It hlps and that it but with time and efforts and studies we might come to a better way of improving. SO please stop this debate, no one will win as both people are so convinced with their respective experience and knowledge as they are willing to call others unethical, which by it self is unethical.

 

SO let the time decide whats best for people. If I am proved wrong, I have no problems, we all learn fro our or others experience.

 

"When you do not get what you want, you get experience"

 

So chill out and start doing hair transplant, thats what we are here for.

 

Let me have a freedom of choice and all I do is give people options no obligations.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I have no idea where you keep coming up with this 10% notion. That would be a very noticable amount of hair grown .

Only ONE person on all these threads agreed with you and he doesnt have any pics.

Thats close to TEN THOUSAND views and no one came to your defense. Not even your own patient Abby.

Those few other laser doctors have posted on here since but purposly avoided these threads . They know they are wrong.

Dr you sort of made yourself look bad and I totally agree you should stick with transplants.

Instead of a transplant surgeon youll be thought of as the laser dude now.

Even the ONE guy jdp710 who finally flooded us with all kinds of studies even said in the end the brush doesnt work.

Youve lost so much credibility in the eyes of the posters . These great guys are quiet and smart . Im just loud.

Remember 10,000 people read your posts.

We on here are very forgiving and understand what alot of hype can do .

If I were you I would really think about taking yourself off the Lex board and admit you made a mistake.

I can promise you people will forget about this and respect you much much more.

Its so obvious the mistakes youve made but other doctors on here have admitted theirs and are more respecteed now. We are only human. Lord only knows how many Ive made

When you have to get out the hubble telescope to see an improvment I would call that zero percentage .

I suppose you believe this laser created this beautiful crown swirl also. Stop doctor. You dont have to keep defending yourself you were just taught what I hope becomes a valuable lesson.

 

 

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/07/our-energy-futu.html

 

 

 

http://manufacturedenvironments.com/2005/media/m51galax...lespacetelescope.jpg

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Dr. Mohmand,

 

As a Hairmax medical board "advisor" I can certainly understand why you would want this thread stopped. Your free link on Hairmax to thousands of potential patients is threatened.

 

I see you have not been able to convince any of your board member colleagues to make a showing on this thread. Real brave of them.

 

It has recently come clear to me how HT doctors get enticed into joining the Hairmax Medical Advisory Board, and it ain't because LLLT works so well.

 

Doctors attach their names to Hairmax to give it "medical credibility". In return, Hairmax puts up a link to each doctors HT homepage. Since Hairmax spends a fortune on marketing, their website will get a tremendous number of hits. That means the doctors will get significant traffic to their own Hair Transplant websites through Hairmax. Nice deal, huh?

 

This listing is THE compensation many of these doctors receive, including Dr. Mohmand.

 

But it gets better:

I just saw a doctor on the Hairmax advisory board who was CLUELESS about hair transplants less than two years ago. This doctor, fresh out of residency, BEGGED me to teach him HT and even had a common friend call me on his behalf to train him. I refused because he didn't have enough time to train before moving out of state.

 

Low and behold I just saw his name on the Hairmax Advisory Board!!! This guy is a freshman HT doctor and HE is a Hairmax Medical Advisor. This SAME doctor emailed me a few months ago saying his business is doing very poorly and that he can't get patients. NOW, all of a sudden he is an HT expert and ADVISOR to Hairmax.

 

YOU PEOPLE OUT THERE BETTER BE VERY CAREFUL WHO YOU PICK FOR YOUR HAIR TRANSPLANT. DON'T BE LAZY. DO YOUR RESEARCH. AT A MINIMUM PLUG THEIR NAME INTO THE SEARCH FEATURE OF THIS SITE AND IF YOU DON'T SEE ATLEAST 50 HITS, FIND ANOTHER DOCTOR. IF THEY HAVEN'T BEEN PERFORMING HT FOR ATLEAST 5 YEARS FIND ANOTHER DOCTOR. IF THEY HAVEN'T PERFORMED 150 SURGERIES LAST YEAR, FIND ANOTHER DOCTOR. AND IF THEY SELL LLLT, FIND...WELL, YOU KNOW.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

A hatchet????

[Bill - Seemiller]

Without getting into whether lasers work or not, I can attest to how great a compensation it is to have a prominently featured profile on a high traffic website like Hairmax.

 

In fact, in addition to the credibility of our recommendations because of our high standards, it's one of the primary reasons why doctors are attracted to being recommended here.

 

Much like the Hair Transplant Network, Hairmax is very easily found in the search engines by prospective patients, and these patients find the doctors and potentially bring them business. This is highly attractive for doctors.

 

This is NOT a bad thing as long as the high traffic website is credible, like the Hair Transplant Network.

 

We could accept everybody's application here for recommendation. But believe me, I've personally turned down more doctors privately in the last year than we've presented publicly.

 

Much like a high esteemed university, we only accept a select group of doctors who are striving toward excellence.

 

After all, these esteemed surgeons will be operating on patients and changing their lives for good or bad. As a hair transplant patient first and foremost, I want only the best working on my head. That's why we are not just a dues paying club, but only recommend those with a proven track record of doing first-rate work.

 

I will say however, that I am not concerned whether or not my hair transplant surgeon offers laser therapy, nor do we recommend doctors here based on whether or not they advocate its use. On a personal note, I simply don't want to be sold anything where benefits are overhyped, and that includes a hair transplant.

 

Research is vital to successful hair restoration. Use a number of sources and read and consider all prospectives. And most importantly, look for consistent and proven results, no matter what the treatment.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[hairydude84]

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?cati...id=81568&STARTPAGE=5

 

I need to mention this again. People over there do a much better job at exposing Feller's BS then what I'm reading in this thread. If you're really interested in knowing the truth about what lasers can do for hair growth, not to mention Feller's honesty and credibility, read JDP's posts in this thread, as well as that thread over at HLH if you haven't already. It's eye-opening.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Its not eye opening at all. Its alot of talk from people that make money from it in different ways.

Little Napoleon look a like Farrell is one of those guys with his bestest buddy ole pal in the whole wide world Spencer Forrest and his X5 laser toy.

I wish lasers worked when I paid a ton and Im sure my 2 friends wish they had worked also.

 

The proof is just not in the pudding,and after reading OMG rambling bs . I came to this conclusion.

Turn it up loud.

 

 

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Hairydude84 = JDP= OMG.

[T.C]

Its like the 'LLLT MAFIA' over there trying to protect their business,complete joke actually. dont believe a word any of them say!!.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

You got that right. And it goes deeper than that. Look at the serious trouble Hairmax got itself into.

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=152313

 

That company is so nervous now that the light is shining brightly on them they even included a statement on their OWN website that OFTEN the regrowth from their product will NOT show up in photographs. Translation: their product OFTEN doesn't work. I predict the heat will be turned up even more on that company. You just keep watching this site for the truth.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Dr. Feller,

 

Not that whether or not Hairydude is the same as JDP is relevant to whether or not lasers work, but doing an IP and location check verifies that both users have very different IP addresses about 3000 miles apart.

 

Instead of attempting to expose poster's identities, it would be more beneficial if you addressed the actual published studies and why you feel they hold no credibility.

 

Also, while the FDA warning letter to Hairmax is certainly news worthy, it can't in itself be used to validate that lasers have no effect on the hair follicle.

 

What most of your claims do validate is that laser companies often oversell the benefits of their product, not whether or not lasers have any benefit for hair.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Dr Feller

Ive been reading that other thread and wanted to let you know that although there is no knockout your clearly beating them to a pulp .

Farrell is starting to back peddle faster then Dion Sanders use to on D.

Hes trying to discredit you and make you look stupid by saying you have no idea

what a shill is yet he had to go to Dictionary.com himself.

If he would have looked for a second longer the dictionary would have corrected him proving you know EXACTLY what a shill is.

Boy did that make him look DUMB!!!!

Youve already established what I believe is the most important part about what happens to the laser once it strikes the skin.

What I was wondering is if your stance changed after all this research and talk with other doctors in the last month .

Do you think there is any possiblilty that these lasers may sort of help a select few for whatever reason we may not really understand even without reaching the follicle .

Keep up the good fight .

Your like wonder woman with her indestructible bracelets. They keep firing at you but no real damage.

Just wondering if you fly in an invisible jet also .

If so maybe turn on laser comb for saftey precautions. Its dangerous up there these days

[Ceasar08]

Bill--

It's true that the FDA article isn't scientific proof of anything, but the news does have quite a number of interesting implications.

 

Within the community of laser advocates, Hairmax has emerged as the king. After decades of claims about LLLT, Hairmax had declared that they had stumbled upon the exact frequency where the laser grows hair. They somehow managed to become the first and only laser company to get FDA approval, and they have been adamant about the fact that other similar products are scams. I've seen them dissect other laser technologies and explain how they will not work because the specifications are incorrect.

 

Now here they are selling products with different laser specs. The fact that they are completely running wild with their FDA clearance and abusing it is disturbing enough. But now you also have to wonder now about all of their past claims. Are they now turning around and stating that all lasers grow hair? If so, can a five dollar laser pointer grow hair?

 

This was the sole company with the bragging rights of an FDA clearance. In my opinion, they've just cast a huge shadow of doubt upon all of their scientific studies and claims, as well as their ethics and credibility.

 

These hand held laser companies and laser helmet salons have had decades now to get it right. Hairmax has suddenly contradicted their scientific claims by pulling some sort of marketing stunt.

 

Maybe we are actually spending too much time on the science, when there are certain things that are staring right at us and challenging us to use our common sense.

 

Just my opinion...

[Bill - Seemiller]

Ceasar08,

 

I agree with all your points above. And believe me when I say I'm not dismissing the importance of the FDA warning to Hairmax.

 

It's just that this particular thread has been used to debate whether or not laser therapy works as a hair loss treatment. Therefore, the FDA warning letter to HairMax for the topic of efficacy or not is irrelevant.

 

Because it is such an important topic however, I've created a Hair Loss Blog on it. Visit HairMax LaserComb Makers Warned by the FDA About Illegal Sales of Non-FDA Cleared Devices. You can see also that there is another thread on this important topic by clicking here.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[electricb]

Bill, did Lexington ever give you a copy of the clinical trial data that they submitted to the FDA and did they ever tell you that they intend to publish it?

[Bill - Seemiller]

electricb,

 

No, I don't have a copy of the Lexington study. They did tell me they were going to publish it, but I don't know if this happened or not. I had the impression that it wasn't going to happen for several months. I guess time will tell.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[charlieb]

This video doesnt prove anything, first of all it is made by someone which is clearly bias and without an objective viewpoint.

 

you say when your finger is put on the laser it no longer becomes a laser it becomes a light duhh what ever it is a light a laser beam...it still doesnt prove the light works or not.

 

actually from such posting Dr Feller you come across as being quite ignorant be dismissing laser therapy as quackery altogther...I am sure there are many satisified people out there that use laser therapy in conjunction with their other treatment..

 

which manual did you read which says the laser light has to hit the follicle for it to work ? the way i see it everything in our bodies is connected, and i do believe that laser therapy promotes a healthier scalp..i would guess it provides stimulation, gets rid of excess oil as well as other beneficial...i agree with the doctors on one thing...laser combs which costs thousands are ridiculous...you can get one for 100$ which works great, and for that amount of money it is worth looking into

 

i use a laser comb few times a week and i notice my hair is much healthier when i am using then when i am not, coincedences maybe? or is there someone to laser therapy? all i know is i support laser if you like to have healthy non limp hair..i believe its worked for me to some degree.