experiences with FUE?

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Its sneaky and how would anyone feel that thanked me in the past if they found out I owned SMG,after all the raving reviews Ive given them.

I know Dr Shapiro was at their clinic and said good things about the doctor but my post was not directed to their doctor but to Bverotti

When I lose any trust in anyone I never trust again.

Hes not a consultant but a Don king type promoter.

Only CLEAR pics will be credible from now on . None of his posts unless he changes that misleading signature.

I always thought of him as a poor soul that found his way to help people. Boy was I duped

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Clive Im glad you see it that way also.

I geuss were crazy

[Dewayne]

B-Spot, great post and one I personally think all should re-read.

 

I thought everyone knew Bart worked for a clinic. You all didn't? Maybe he's the co-owner. Does that make him a bad guy? Believe it or not, some business owners DO actually care about clients, patients, customers, etc.

 

I can't believe it has been put forth in this thread that just because a guy owns a clinic, that somehow that makes him a greedy, dishonest, money - loving scoundrel who only cares about profits! Maybe that's him, but I don't think the fact that he invested his money or time into some venture that actually helps people makes it true.

 

As a matter of fact, I would think an actual OWNER would be more interested in patient, or client, welfare than a mere employee or sales agent. Nothing against employees, but an owner has a long-term interest in his / her enterprise that is hard to duplicate by a non-owner. That's what partnerships are all about, and they generally turn out superior results (not necessarily talking about hair).

[thanatopsis_awry]

Everyone knew he worked for the clinic; most did not know that he was an owner. There is an obvious difference, and the truth of the matter should be reflected within his signature so it is public knowledge, as it should be. Just like Bspot, Spex, Jotronic, et. al.

 

Everyone doesn't have a problem with him being an owner; most have a problem with him being an owner but not knowing that he was an owner until now.

 

Personally, it is in the bottom half of my FUE trepidations, but I understand completely why PGP (and others) are steamed.

 

EDIT -- there are plenty of exceedingly legitimate FUE issues raised in this thread, which absolutely demand to be addressed. Bart's affiliation w/ his clinic, imo, while valid in its own right, I hope does not end up detracting from the initial discourse.

[Curious]

Thanatopsis,

 

There is no reason to think the yield from FUE is any different than strip. You failed to cite any facts, other than the opinion of one doctor, on which this conclusion is based. There's going to be lousy FUE results because some doctors aren't very good at it, just as there are horrible strip results because of poor doctor skill.

[Dewayne]

thana,

 

I would say you made some valid points in this thread as well, except I got a headache reading all the big words and nice grammar....

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Armani owns his enterprise what do you think of him ? What about Mr Bosley.

Do they have your back . Are they greedy ,dishonest money loving scoundrels.

Barts on about 10 different forums selling all these promises with little proof .

For every 1 grownout pic we see 10 postops .

I actually pm Bill awhile back to ask him to consider prohair after seeing the megafue postop pics but after reading post after post of the smooth talking strip bashing and then finding out he owns the frickin place it just reminded me of those lying fools from Nuhart . I have DEEP evil emotions when it comes to them .

Dr Feller didnt just bring that up for the hell of it.

It doesnt make him a bad guy but a shady fella that I have NO patience with.

I hate 99% legit doctors and even more so for the salesman. If your not 100% then f-off

Its obviously a calculated move on Barts part to keep that hidden .

A good business move I must say but one I think is pathetic.

Yeah they have shown a few decent photos but how long have they been doing this. aside from the strip bashing and the shady photos I cant stand sneaks .

Cosmetic surgery is the dirtiest field there is . It always promises promises promises while patients live f-ed up lives and docs sail there yachts.

I know of only 2 geniune doctors and that Dr Shapiro and Dr Konior . I can name 20 scumbags though .

Its my opinion that Bart isnt completely legit and it isnt going to change.

[wantego]

Originally posted by PLEASE GROW PLEASE:

Yeah and I think he should add to his signature that he CO-OWNS the clinic .

Its obvious if hes a doctor but not telling us this is EXTREMELY deceptive in a thousand ways.

Its sneaky and I dont see him as a Bspot ,Spex,Jotronic anymore I see him as a sneaky guy trying to put cash in his pocket.

Bill ,when did you know he was the co-owner.

I hope today

 

I totally agree that he should let people know about his associations via his sig but to be candid your previous post seemed pretty harsh.

[thanatopsis_awry]

Originally posted by Curious:

Thanatopsis,

 

There is no reason to think the yield from FUE is any different than strip. You failed to cite any facts, other than the opinion of one doctor, on which this conclusion is based. There's going to be lousy FUE results because some doctors aren't very good at it, just as there are horrible strip results because of poor doctor skill.

 

Plz re-read; I did more than cite fact, I cited logic.

 

EDIT -- ask w/e FUE clinic you are or will be considering for their specific positions on graft survival of strip vs. FUE; the variability of graft survival; and the forces of torsion, traction, and compression. See if they deny the validity of this; and, assuming they do not (and I have not once seen a doctor do so.....telling, no?) ask them as to how they address the aforementioned, and to what extent their measures succeed.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I love performing FUE, and it most certainly has it's place, but let's minimize the hype and keep FUE open, honest, and transparent.

Dr feller said it best right there but should of added in ALL aspects.

If Prohair was knocking out great results one after another I would have kept my mouth shut.

The problen is they havent showed ONE case that threw me back in my seat.

Until you can do that keep the strip comments to a minimum and just show results .

Yeah I dont like MY scar but I dont like the prices ,density ,and promises these all fue clinics provided.

Theres no room for error here.

I applaud Bart for his geniusness and marketing,but just see him different now.

This is not about their doctors at all.

[thanatopsis_awry]

PGP is making another good point, as well; if the evidence was compelling, let alone irrefutable, as evinced in results, it would be one thing to take mondo-FUE clinics at their word...or silence, in many instances.

 

As things stand, however, mondo-FUE clinics have a tremendous amount of explaining to do w/ both results and explanation of methodology.

[Curious]

Actually you haven't cited any facts, just offered conclusions you have come to. I would suggest to you that if a patient has a collagen problem, he is probably going to have trouble with strip. FUE is a far less invasive method of removing grafts from the scalp, less cutting, less trauma. FUE is more time consuming and more expensive than strip. I have seen results from both methods that are superb.

[thanatopsis_awry]

Curious, you are going all over the place now talking about less cutting, less invasive...."less trauma"

 

You are also beckoning me to enter in to a debate of semantics over "facts" and "conclusions"; personally, I decline this offer, and my....conclusions.....will simply have to stay as is.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Maybe less trauma to the scalp but not to the grafts. Im not so sure about less cutting either .

I bet ya 2000 fue is about as much cutting as a 2000 strip . Its just spread out

[Dewayne]

Originally posted by PLEASE GROW PLEASE:

Armani owns his enterprise what do you think of him ? What about Mr Bosley.

Do they have your back . Are they greedy ,dishonest money loving scoundrels.

Barts on about 10 different forums selling all these promises with little proof .

For every 1 grownout pic we see 10 postops .

I actually pm Bill awhile back to ask him to consider prohair after seeing the megafue postop pics but after reading post after post of the smooth talking strip bashing and then finding out he owns the frickin place it just reminded me of those lying fools from Nuhart . I have DEEP evil emotions when it comes to them .

Dr Feller didnt just bring that up for the hell of it.

It doesnt make him a bad guy but a shady fella that I have NO patience with.

I hate 99% legit doctors and even more so for the salesman. If your not 100% then f-off

 

 

I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with him owning the business, and that doesn't mean he has anything but the best intentions. But remember, most of the docs in the coalition - including the two you mentioned, own their businesses. I would prefer to have them looking out for me over an employee of, say MHR.

 

In regards to Bosley, I think he was probably an excellent ht surgeon. Problem is, he doesn't do them anymore and he lost the quality control as the business grew. I would probably say today he owns very little if any of the business. I might be wrong, but I figure some group probably bought him out but still have rights to his image / name, etc.

[Curious]

PGP,

 

I suggest you look at the donor of someone that's had 2,000 FUE by a competent doctor and compare it someone who's had strip. BTW, after the strip is removed, they have to refine it and cut/dissect it to get the follicular units, not to mention the sutures or staples left in the donor for 14 days. I'm not against strip, great results are posted here every day, but it seems like some of the comments made about FUE are more than a little one-sided and not based in fact.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Id suggest you look at two patients with similar characteristics with the same graft counts in one session strip and fue and tell me which result looks better.

Top clinics also further refine the fue grafts after being extracted.

Im not against fue at all .It just oversold.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Dewayne I hear ya but we know they own the business . Why would Bart keep that from us

[Jotronic]

BTW, after the strip is removed, they have to refine it and cut/dissect it to get the follicular units

 

True but there is actually less "handling" of the follicle in these stages.

 

Here's a donor area after 2500 strip...

 

 

And here's an FUE donor after 835 grafts...

 

 

For growth differences look at Shuffle. He had bad strip, then FUE, then great strip.

 

"...today i would do it the other way round. In 2004 i was fascinated of FUE, i thought

that FUE ist the future in hairrestauration....but now i know that this is not true. It leaves you with a thin donor

and some little spots with permanent shockloss...no way to get 5000 Fues in my case! Fues is a high risk procedur(e)..."

 

[Dewayne]

Man, a picture is worth a thousand words....

[Bill - Seemiller]

Dear Members,

 

There is some concern that Bart did not disclose that he is the co-owner of Prohair Clinic. Because it was already made known in his signature that he represented them, I personally don't see the big deal either way. I have however, asked him to add "Co-owner" into his signature for clarification purposes.

 

The question of FUE candidacy is an important one. Is everyone an FUE candidate? How does one define candidate? Anyone can extract and plant follicular units, but growth yield and minimal scarring to me, is what makes an FUE candidate. Is FUE yield, even in the best candidates in the right surgical hands as high as strip? What about less than optimal candidates? Dr. Feller has explained his point of view quite well a number of times. I have encouraged Bart to have Dr. DeReys get involved in this discussion (with some translation from Bart) to further clarify his position.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[fusion47]

Wow...what did I start here? haha. I guess this is a topic that's constantly under much debate. The reason for the query: I'm probably a very unusual case as far as my interest in a HT. I have a mild case of OCD/Tourette's...sort of an impulse to move my head in different ways, often down. After doing a ton of research, I became concerned that this could "stretch" my strip scar of otherwise impede the healing process. How much is required to stretch the scar...I know no heavy lifting or working out for a while. I'll probably need another HT down the road a bit as recession continues, so it's looking that strip is the best way to go as far as utilization of my donor area.

[Clive McQuire]

This debate is very interesting!! and in some places quite excitable!!

 

However my concern is mainly this, i came on this site as a complete h/t novice, and as such was very susceptible to taking in what i read. So for someone who only offers F.U.E surgery to constantly bash strip surgery, whilst omitting to explain the possible down sides of the F.U.E procedure, is in my opinion misleading to the inexperienced viewer!!

 

Surely the point of this forum is to help persons with hair loss!! so if experienced surgeons, who offer BOTH techniques, are prepared to explain the down sides of F.U.E then why not Bverotti?? unless he has a financial incentive to not do so.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Bill with all due respect ,you find much smaller things on here "a big deal". Ill bet you 10 grand you talked on the phone with Bart yesterday.

Sorry if I maybe delayed a possible recommedation for Prohair but stuff happens . Ive called out posters, doctors,and now owners. This to me is a big deal when you put it all together. I have ZERO tolerence for any form of deceit in this field, especially something thats "suppose to revolutionize the industry. Bart is what we call in the fight industry a hype man.

Like Bspot said Bart is an ok guy . Who has time for an OK guy,not me.

I think B-spot is a GREAT guy but when a expierenced poster from Indiana constantly has to use the ,WHAT I THINK HE WAS TRYING TO SAY line it shows me some of these guys are just plain lost . It shows me some are just full of BS and have the balls to bash strip and heavily promote fue yet wont debate a doctor on the issue.

I was always wondering why BART was so adamant about fue being so great and strip a disaster in the waiting, now I know.

Its one thing to promote your clinic but another to take on calculated moves while doing it .

SMG is 99% strip and will be for a long time yet Bspot doesnt bash fue.

Its funny how Bart logged on a few times yet no resonse at all.

Cat got your tongue?

Anyway this fue debate has the potential to be a good one so this is it for my feelings on Bart "BVEROTTI" the secrect owner of Prohair.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

My worthless father did give me some decent advice when he wasnt drunk and running around with a bunch of hoodrats

He would slur that a tough man will always fight back when cornered and a worthy man will stand up for what he truly believes in but real man will admit when hes wrong.

I overracted a little about you. I was looking at some prior posts and found this post from Pat below. I think it was about

the beginning of last year. I have harsh feelings about this industry and anything that looks like a duck I want to slaughter. Im glad you added the co-owner to your signature. After hearing this for the first time yesterday by Dr Feller it came across very deceitful and brought clarity to my mind as to why you heavily promote fue and bash strip, but it wasnt a complete secret that you are an owner of prohair as Pat did mention it . I think my outburts were an accumulation of about 10 things. Im actually almost finished with my hair restoration journey for a long time and just dont want guys to fall for the current hype thats out there . Anyway it would be nice if you could post more final results since your clinic has been doing surgery as you said in a prior post all week long since 2003

 

 

 

This topic was just recently brought to my attention.

 

I agree with Joe that Bart, a part owner of the ProHair Clinc who posts as bverotti, is using the transparent and old tactic of over selling FUE by showcasing exceptionally bad scars to sell FUE.

 

This tactic of selling FUE on fear is as old as FUE itself. Dr. Woods used this tactic along with grandstanding to make himself a small fortune until reality over took the hype.

 

And like Dr. Woods the long term results of FUE never seem to get show cased - only the immediate post ops.

 

Fortunately some physicians who I respect now provide state of the art FUE - without over selling its benefits.

 

Dr. Alan Feller is a great example of a surgeon who has indepth knowledge and experience with FUE and honestly admits that his patients get better results from the same amount of grafts harvested from strip and trimmed carefully under microscopes than the same number harvested by punches during FUE.

 

Most physicians who have extensive experience with both strip and FUE have concluded that transection rates are higher for the FUE procedure and the survival/growth rates lower.

 

It always amazes me that for all the hype online about FUE over the past several years I can't recall ever seeing a patient with a moderate or greater degree of baldness achieve a full look from FUE.

 

In my opinion, the reality of FUE is far less impressive than the marketing of it.

 

Bart, I know you are anti strip. But now that you are claiming to be doing FUE mega sessons let's see you post mega results on class 4 and 5 patients that can come even close to rivaling the "wow" results of the top strip excision clinics.

 

Pat