experiences with FUE?

[fusion47]

Hi all,

 

Have any of you had a HT using the FUE method? I've read tons of blogs with in detail play by plays with the strip excision method. I know that FUE costs more, but was wondering if any of you could share your experience with this method, including healing time, results, etc.

[bverotti]

Although I appreciate Spex a lot I completely disagree with some of his statements.

 

Any patients that wants to have FUE done can simply because there is no such thing as 'not an FUE candidate'. No matter what hair color, straight curly thin thick ... you name it, EVERYBODY is an FUE candidate if he is a HT candidate.

 

We have yet to encounter a patient that we had to send home because of transection problems or any other kind of problem.

Our drs have demonstrated this skill by performing FUE on unknown patient in front of many dr. peers. Grafts where counted and checked for problems ... none where found, even under high magnification.

Our mega sessions have been witnessed by peer drs and in some cases it has led to a complete change of opinion.

 

FUE is a much safer , patient friendly method than any other HT solutions available.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Bverotti,

I'm surprised you would write something so bold and inaccurate.

 

Wasn't it you who admitted to Bill just recently that even after years of offering FUE surgery to the public that you STILL don't have a plethora of results to show?

 

Just because grafts LOOK intact when they are removed doesn't mean that they are viable. A graft doesn't have to be visibly cut in half (transected) to be useless.

 

This is because of the three detrimental forces that FUE imposes on grafts:

1. Torsion

2. Traction

3. Compression

 

All FUE clinics subject their grafts to these forces which is why results from FUE are consistently poorer when compared to strip surgery.

 

Perhaps this is why you have so few photos of results despite having performed numerous cases by now? Really B. some of your posts are dead on, and some are way out there buddy.

 

I love performing FUE, and it most certainly has it's place, but let's minimize the hype and keep FUE open, honest, and transparent.

 

I think all newbies interested in FUE should read this article first, so I will post the link here again:

 

http://www.regrowhair.com/hair-transplant-surgery/benef...-limitations-of-fue/

 

Dr. Feller

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Ive stuck up for your clinic in the past and even mentioned a recommemdation but Dr Feller is right on.

For a fue all clinic there are less then 20 grown out out photos floating around ,and half of them are somewhat shady photos. Your doctors have been doing this for years

You should have ALOT more.

Ive even seen Armani patients post 3 out of 10 photos that looked decent.

I havent even seen any of your patients posts.

I have to agree with Dr Feller .

Fue is here and real but the consistency is in no way close to where some try to make us believe it is.

I wish it was but sadly to say its not.

Constant photos would prove otherwise like strip does ,but all we see are a bunch of immed. postops with a few grown out thrown in here and there.

Alot of crossed fingers after a fue operation, and that sucks

[bverotti]

Dr. Feller,

I will not make any further comments on your comment since my words will not weigh against a dr. words.

 

All I want to state is that our drs have backed up every word by showing their tools, technique, experience... during live surgery in front of their peers. If you are stating that these hair surgeons can not verify under a microscope is a graft is viable or not than who can ?

[Dr. William Lindsey]

Also Fusion,

 

It depends on your particular needs and your donor supply. I had a fellow in Saturday who had seen a national chain for hair restoration clinics and they offered him a very large strip (larger than I think he needed but commissions need to be paid) or a relatively small FUE. I had to explain to him that those 2 options were as dis-similar as a prius and a suburban. I felt he needed around 1500 grafts, and he would be best suited to a 1 stop strip and come back later as he continued to lose hair and do another strip. He was a young guy with a peach-sized crown area with very miniturized hair only, and a family history suggesting he will lose more in the next decade. Or, if he were adamant about an FUE, we could do 2 750 graft cases, but I explained that for his particular needs, I felt his interests were best served with a strip---not only in terms of cost (money and donor hair) but also in terms of scarring of his donor area at its impact on future cases.

 

So Fusion, get a couple of opinions, and see what is best for YOU, not all comers.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Bverotti We applaud your doctors for displaying their techniques.

Now why dont you display some more legitimate proof that fue is even close to the consistency of strip. No more immed postop pics .

You are suspended until you post 25 full grownout pics that we havent seen.

I SWEAR some of you guys dance around the REAL issue and proof like Danny Terrio on dance fever.

If this was an illegal drug trafficing site ,there would be alot of executions.

Try selling the late Pablo Escabar a kilo of drywall and see what happens.

It looks legit ,the weight is there ,its packaged and stamped right but when you fly it home it pure bunk BULLSHIT

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Bverotti,

You are not a doctor, so perhaps you don't know what you're talking about? You are a businessman who owns the clinic, is this not correct? So turning away patients for being poor candidates for FUE might upset the bottomline wouldn't it? Can you see how your credibility might be just a bit in question on this matter?

 

Demonstrating FUE in front of other doctors is nothing new. I did this as far back as 2003 at an ISHRS sponsered meeting in front of 100 doctors. Big deal. That lends absolutely no credibility to the results obtained nor the CONSISTENCY of these results. It certainly doesn't support your ridiculous claim that ALL patients are FUE candidates.

 

I don't know if you are purposefully trying to distort the reality of FUE or you are legitimately confused. I've actually complimented your clinic for being transparent and open, but after your completely irresponsible statement (which would get your medical license suspended in N.Y. if you had one) just insured that I will never plug your clinic again as honest and forthright. You've rejoined the FUE hype clinics in my book.

 

If you really will defer to a doctor, then you should save some face by swollowing your pride and removing that ridiculous statment. Or you can keep getting hammered for it by people on this site who know better. I can only imagine how much liability you just opened your own clinic up to by making that statement in writing on a public forum.

[Curious]

Dr. Feller,

 

Why don't you put your criticisms of FUE into a peer-reviewed article in a mainstream medical journal?

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Curious,

 

That's a great idea and I would love to do it. But I just don't have the time or energy to prove what should already be obvious.

 

Besides, it's already been done. Rassman and Bernstein already published a study in a medical journal in 2002 describing that NOT all people are candidates for FUE. They also descrcribed WHY all patients are not candidates due to collagen content of skin.

 

The FACT that not all patients are candidates is irrefutable, which is why you will not find a SINGLE FUE doctor come on here and write what Bverotti did today.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Please dont tell me this clown OWNS Prohairclinic.

You gotta be kidding me . You little rat bastard.

You a sneaky little punk.

To think I even said ANYTHING positive about your shady ass clinic sickens me.

Your worse then Armani.

I hope the Atomium breaks off the supprts and rolls over your clinic while your taking some more phoney ass pics.

I gotta go work out I feel like busting this fucking screen

[bullitnut]

pgp steady lad stress can cause hairloss chill dude ha ha i love this forum its better than dallas LOL .its very informative and at times some of the characters on these boards are hilarious takes the depression out of being a balding bozo like myself keep up the quirks dude.On a serious note though cheers dr feller and dr lindsey and spex buddy for these facts it all aids people in making an informed decision about ht surgery and surgeons keep it up guys

[thanatopsis_awry]

Wow, the plot thickens....

 

Honestly, though, I really don't believe this is the first (or even second) time that Bverotti has declared FUE as a universally viable treatment and/or that yield is virtually equivolent to strip.

 

EDIT -- I think the time has come for (at the very least) positions to become crystalized.

 

There are two primary matters that need an absolutely consistent, clear answer, which every FUE practioner and clinic needs to man up on. That is: whether every patient is an equally good candidate, and if not, why; secondly, whether or not torsion/traction/compression have been eliminated or profoundly minimized in the extraction process, and, if so, by what revolutionary tool or tecnique.

[Curious]

What evidence is there that indicates that every patient is not a candidate for FUE and that the yield is lower than strip?

[thanatopsis_awry]

There exists transparent facts; about physiology and about methadology. That is, e.g., collagen content in skin and a tool such as the Feller Punch that minimize the forces of torsion, traction, and compression.

 

Dr. Feller, among others as mentioned, have dedicated themselves in exploring physiology and methadology, and have come to conclusions that have yet to be refuted by a single contrarian, dedicated to what could only be euphonically classified as "hype".

 

Moreover, on the practical level of results, and despite years of waiting, there has yet to be compelling -- let alone irrefutable -- evidence to suggest otherwise.

[Bill - Seemiller]

I certainly think it's worthwhile and beneficial to discuss whether or not all patients are FUE candidates. I also think we ought to define what a candidate truly is.

 

In my opinion, a "candidate" is one who will receive optimal growth and minimal scarring regardless of the procedure. Anyone can extract and place follicles, but whether or not they GROW is the question.

 

Bart (Bverotti) is the co-owner of Prohair clinic and has posted in my opinion, several impressive examples over the last years (over 10 grown out photos I believe, if you look for them). However, this comes far from proving whether or not all patients can be FUE candidates.

 

I have also not seen any negatively posted experiences however, I also know from speaking to him and Dr. DeReys that most of their patients don't speak English, so even if dissatisfied patients exist, we wouldn't find them on this forum.

 

In speaking with Bart and Dr. DeReys about a month ago, I was impressed that their approach to FUE did seem much more realistic than what I thought was initially presented online.

 

In my opinion, the only questionable item that demands an answer is whether or not FUE can be a viable option for all patients. To date, most respected top level surgeons reject that all patients are candidates for FUE. Proving that all patients are candidates therefore, is up to those who go against this flow (Prohair being one of them).

 

From my conversation with Dr. DeReys, he does not deny that the forces listed above by Dr. Feller (torsion, traction, and compression) exist, only that he's able to overcome them with minimal transection by adjusting his tools and pinching loose or "mushy" skin with his fingers during the extraction process. In his opinion, performing surgery on these types of patients slows down the process, but he believes he can extract and place these follicles with minimal transection rates as low as 5%.

 

Bart, perhaps you could consider having Dr. DeReyes writeup a response to this thread and why he believes everyone can be an FUE candidate. Given that his first language isn't English, perhaps he can write it and you can translate and post on his behalf.

 

This highly important question demands a medical answer as impressive as Dr. Feller's explanation as to why only some are candidates.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[thanatopsis_awry]

From my conversation with Dr. DeReys, he does not deny that the forces listed above by Dr. Feller (torsion, traction, and compression) exist, only that he's able to overcome them with minimal transection by adjusting his tools and pinching loose or "mushy" skin with his forefingers during the extraction process.

Bill

 

That's great to know; and I'm happy such an explanation has at last been laid out in the open, and it can be taken and examined for w/e it is worth by whomever so chooses.

 

A seemingly reasonable answer such as this, however, really shouldn't be like pulling teeth from the clinics. Instead of acting as if FUE is a utopic procedure, "reservations" that are brought up should simply be handled in a cogent, clear manner; when they are not it leads many to believe that a clinic is cloaking itself in secrecacy and spin to spare itself from the scrutinity of others.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Yeah and I think he should add to his signature that he CO-OWNS the clinic .

Its obvious if hes a doctor but not telling us this is EXTREMELY deceptive in a thousand ways.

Its sneaky and I dont see him as a Bspot ,Spex,Jotronic anymore I see him as a sneaky guy trying to put cash in his pocket.

Bill ,when did you know he was the co-owner.

I hope today

[the B spot]

OK--Bverotti is an OK guy--no need whatsoever to come down so hard on him.

 

I don't care if he owns the clinic or is a consultant--it doesn't change the fact that he is trying to promote his clinic--has shown some results--and is not pushy, arrogant or ignorant. He is also a PATIENT just like many of us, several times over.

 

I know Bart does not believe in strip surgery, but that is where we differ.--completely OK

 

I also know that it is virtually impossible for Bart to debate with Dr. Feller--who is after all, a doctor--which doesn't make him right all of the time, but it tends to win a lot of Doctor/Non-Doctor arguments

 

I believe most people are candidates for FUE (GASP!!!!!!!)

 

However, (and I think this is what Bart meant)-- there are some issues with that.

 

#1--when removing the grafts via FUE with a .75-.8--you are NOT getting every graft intact--you will be leaving grafts in the extraction sites (ie a 4 hair graft is punched out with 3 intact follicles, leaving 1 transected/partially transected graft in the donor) so if they grow they can actually minimize any moth eaten appearance. This is where a clinic needs to be more forthcoming about what they are calling an intact graft--what did it start as--what did it finish as.

 

#2--some patients have different skin, hair, curl, etc.. and I have difficulty believing that transection rates do not vary accordingly from very good to not so good. It is here where I believe we need information collected by clinics to detail this--so patients are properly informed to make these choices.

 

#3-If you operate from the standpoint of getting every graft intact and detailing what a graft was before and after, and minimizing ALL forms of transection/torsion then I do not believe FUE is for everyone.

 

I don't believe we have a situation where doctor skill is the question--what we have is two different approaches---Dr. Feller will NOT compromise a percentage of available donor and other clinics do at the request of the patient.

 

I understand a couple of things-- wanting your hair back, and NOT wanting a strip scar.

 

It is hard for some of us (Doctors included) to understand that MANY patients exist that will trade a percentage of grafts for no strip scar.

 

However, I believe FUE is being sold by fear-mongering (anti-strip approach) or being overly hyped as a strip alternative.

 

Clinics have a duty to inform patients as to EXACTLY what is being done, and WHY this particular clinic does what it does.

 

"We here at clinic X believe no patient should have a strip scar, BUT, you may not be able to harvest as many grafts, and some grafts may be damaged during extraction."

 

Anyway, I have quite a bit more to say on this subject, but for now, let's take is easy on Bverotti and keep the debate civil.

 

Jason

[Bill - Seemiller]

than,

 

It's a whole different experience speaking to the surgeon who performs surgeries each day. I asked all the hard questions when I interviewed Dr. DeReys. Frankly, I went into the interview expecting hype but was impressed that his answers were reasonable and realistic. I did realize however, that much of what I learned has not been presented on the forum. For example, Dr. DeReys will only ever extract 5000 grafts from the donor area in a lifetime and only so many grafts per square cm with very few exceptions. This is to minimize the appearance of the scarring and moth eaten look. These and other claims, in my opinion, are very realistic.

 

Further discussion between surgeons who believe in and dispute FUE candidacy is certainly encouraged as it will facilitate learning for all.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Jason,

 

Well put.

 

Bill

[Clive McQuire]

I have read many posts on this site, where people have been accused of being clandestine salesmen!!

 

In my opinion this is the most brazen case yet!!

 

Bverotti is misleading new members with these outlandish claims!! and if indeed he is owner/part owner of th eclinic, then the case is proven!!

[thanatopsis_awry]

"We here at clinic X believe no patient should have a strip scar, BUT, you may not be able to harvest as many grafts, and some grafts may be damaged during extraction."

 

 

Jason

 

Precisely, this trade off in graft survival and indeterminate variability in quality of (FUE) donor is pivotal; BUT, and this includes Bverotti and his boys, this forthcoming information is *not* being presented by virtually all of the huge FUE-promoters, and the "compromise" you mention is apparently *not* being done at the specific, transparent request and acknowledement of the patient....

 

There has been a consistent shying away from, if not outright denial, of the variability in *how* appropriate FUE is (with regard, of course, to graft survival).

[thanatopsis_awry]

Bill,

 

I completely understand; and the answers you received do indeed seem impressive. Much of what Bverotti presents is! However, and I refer to this in my other posts, the lack of simple transparency astonishes me.

 

This leads me to believe one of two things: services are being hyped and oversold to patients, and/or further issues exist in the methodology that are being cloaked.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Bart,

 

So there is no confusion, please add into your forum signature that you are the co-owner of Prohair Clinic.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill