bayscholar

Hey B-Spot, looks like the time for number two finally came around. Go luck brother, you have been a very valuable resource for me on this forum I remember searching and nearly reading all your post before my HT#1.... and continue to enjoy your post to this day(you bring it like Da Bears D-intelligence combined with talent coming from all angles). Sincerely from me to you I hope your second procedure with Dr.Shapiro takes you too where you desire to go (I imagine is a very hairy place). Bay

Mak, I second all of B-spots comments as a fellow NW5+, he is giving you invaluable information & advice from some one who has traveled the path you seek.

Right on NNelly that is a great attitude just not for every one. I feel you on the being with a group making fun of plugs (I am the only one in the group not saying a word-busy counting my blessing in my head). Slightly of the topic but, if you are that close to Dr. Ron Shapiro you should really give him major consideration for your future HT. Good luck hairloss brother Bay

2 clarify a little ....my original post was just the day after I had a encounter with my old roommate and I truthfully was frozen solid for a minute and did not know how to respond (very unlike me...didn't want anyone knowing about my HT-yet)...I did not mean to indicate my intention to hide from those with situations like my own, not giving guidance or help (knowing I owe the likes of Pat the publisher and JoTronic a beer or two or three!). If one of my friends who needs a HT asks me about my hair "point blank" showing a genuine concern for his own...I will take him under my wing-thx HBank. At the same time I do not want it to be public knowledge 4 -any and every one- I know (my personality is just not wired that way). NNelly you are right, I could help more then I am and should to some degree realize that it is not a burden (more of a gift-hair again!). Knowing most of the time its just some one like myself, a year ago, struggling like crazy with hairloss desperate for a solution...helping is good....Any one who has contacted me via my blog, I have assisted like they were me 1 year ago and gave them all I could have asked for and more...truthful answers not sugar coated at all, what you need to hear regarding HT (FUSS specific).... My original post was really just raw emotion of nearly having my cover blown with my first encounter with "what the F you have hair again"....so yes I am trying to hide the past to some degree, can you blame me?

Not that I know about, I paid over 15k.

Its safe for a 50year old man, and has been shown to have similar but ever so slightly greater side effects compared to propecia in short term studies...you will not be growing a third leg, wait is that really a bad thing?..All joking aside, you should begin with propecia to see how your body reacts to a DHT inhibitor for a year, then if the coast is clear of side effects consider avodart (still realizing the unknown associated risk)...I find it superior to propecia personally and have taken both...But I stress only after I used propecia and had no issues did I decide to take the chance. Personally I believe that people who are prescribe avodart currently are in an age group that is more at risk of neurological melt downs like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, hence a 50 year old on the drug till he is 60 vs a 28 year old on the drug till he is 38, but this is just my guess nothing more. Also cousin_it from the results I have seen on the net.. (.5mg) of avodart tested superior to propecia at any dosage regarding %dht blocked.. so do you mean avodart at .5mg is less impressive then avodart at 2.5 daily?... it is superior drug to combat hair loss period (again based on non medical self evaluation). It has the risk of uncertainty yes, but results are better across the board....in fact I will have to look this up but .2mg of avodart inhibits more dht then taking proscar 5mg daily. Jack do as much research on avodart as you can before making the jump, even ask you general practitioner what he thinks. If you do decide you should get a yearly blood test to insure you are not harming your self. bay

Personally I would say no to both. Regarding Mohammad H. Mohmand, MD it would be absolutely not...his website combined with his vast services offered makes me very weary of his work, not to mention his photo's are now where near acceptable resolution. Regarding Dr Damkerng Pathomvanich-MD I was close to giving him the thumbs up having read post on this and HLH forum with positive recommendations from Dr.Wong. But unless I am viewing his site wrong, let me know...I can't stand before and after pics in Doctors galleries that don't have grafts counts....ludicrous in my opinion. So no on both prop 183 & 120...errr I'm mean no on both doctors. my-2c bay

I live in cali and left the state for my HT...Good yes, but great I am not so sure. Don't allow proximity to be a major factor, you only get a few chances in the world of HT's.

Slick, For how light and fine your hair appears to be, I think you are looking very good for 6months much improved from 2 months back. Personally I really like the results you have so far, credit to Dr.Shapiro thats a major improvement for only 2091 grafts. Bay

Congrats Pat your hair already looked darn good from Dr.Shapiro's work already....so one can only imagine what another 1,600+grafts (3,907 hairs) will do for you, looking good Pat + thanks for all your help along the way.

thanks hb, I agree with you, if some asks me point blank if I have had a HT I will tell them...other wise I will stick with the meds as my cover, worked really well so your right about us caring far more then others about our hair. Thanks again, bayscholar

Old friend(real straight shooter, will tell you the first thing on his mind no bs type)of mine came over to my house had not seen him for like 3 or 4 years, he is also a former roommate of mine during my really bad hairloss days. I opened the door and I said happythanksgivings... he responds right off that bat... "Dude I haven't seen you with that much hair in like ten years!... looks good man"...didn't really know what to say when he asked what I did to bring it back, I told him I threw the kitchen sink at my hair (propecia,rogaine..etc)...Thinking I might have to come clean at some point that I got work done being that neither propecia or rogaine brings your hairline back (but I figure how many except hairloss dorks like us really know this, my friend has a full head of hair so his knowledge of meds is second hand from me).....Don't get me wrong, I dreamed before my procedure to have it come to a point like this, just never really thought it would happen....I know it sounds funny but seriously any one else have this problem, and if so what did you do?....I guess my issue is my friends I have not seen for a while that saw my hair crap out on me, that happen to be as bald or bladder then I was, will not buy on the kitchen sink story...they have tried it.

Old friend(real straight shooter, will tell you the first thing on his mind no bs type)of mine came over to my house had not seen him for like 3 or 4 years, he is also a former roommate of mine during my really bad hairloss days. I opened the door and I said happythanksgivings... he responds right off that bat... "Dude I haven't seen you with that much hair in like ten years!... looks good man"...didn't really know what to say when he asked what I did to bring it back, I told him I threw the kitchen sink at my hair (propecia,rogaine..etc)...Thinking I might have to come clean at some point that I got work done being that neither propecia or rogaine brings your hairline back (but I figure how many except hairloss dorks like us really know this, my friend has a full head of hair so his knowledge of meds is second hand from me).....Don't get me wrong, I dreamed before my procedure to have it come to a point like this, just never really thought it would happen....I know it sounds funny but seriously any one else have this problem, and if so what did you do?....I guess my issue is my friends I have not seen for a while that saw my hair crap out on me, that happen to be as bald or bladder then I was, will not buy on the kitchen sink story...they have tried it.

Thanks Dr.Paul, very helpful in making sense of what DFU really are.

Looking very good for day 21 Bill, you will be one to watch I predict.

Funny comment JoeT it reminds me of the many calls you took from me(PO)letting me know I was not going to be the first hasson no grow...and for that matter get rest take it easy and don't buy every magic potion that comes along.. a little vitamin-e should be all I need. If I could go back or go back, possibly ht2 some day, it would be vitamin e + two full weeks off work and just chillin in Vancouver till I can get the staples out and have my hair washed at the clinic during that time. I would imagine that would be the best post op strategy possible, no stress of flying/work or anything for two weeks. With that said I like CP but truthfully until I compare my crown pics in six months I may just be using tricomin because it feels good.

Very true Markh I only use it at night, the morning would require to much time to get it right. Also I think folligen can be diluted with water to help reduce the green scalp effect.

Markh- my original post was from a study done by Dr.Loren Pickart, some how my ultra fast at work copy & past failed me I will add later to my original post. Dr.Pickart, from my research the father of tricomin,folligen and graftcyte. Currently I use tricomin even though it seems to be out preformed by folligen from what I have read, the main reason is how it leaves my hair and scalp feeling. With that said I am interested if any one uses the folligen lotion and if so what how they liked it. this is the info I mentioned about tricomin vs minox2% (Skin-Repair/Hair Growth Agents - Tricomin Tricomin Solution Follicle Therapy Spray is sold by ProCyte Corporation (See www.procyte.com). It is another copper-peptide complex that stimulates hair growth and was invented by Dr. Loren Pickart in 1987 and, in a sense, is an earlier version of the approach used in Folligen. Tricomin had its genesis in attempts to create Iamin molecules with an increased solubility in, and retention by, wounds and other tissues. To achieve this purpose, the non-polar or "fatty" character of the molecule was synthetically increased by either chemically linking fatty acids to Iamin or adding amino acid residues to Iamin which had a more "fat-like" nature. While such "fatty" Iamins worked well for wound-healing, they also markedly increased hair growth around experimental wounds. Tricomin has demonstrated effectiveness for hair growth stimulation in placebo-controlled clinical trials and in direct comparisons with minoxidil. Tricomin produces slightly more hair growth than minoxidil and produces thicker hair shafts than minoxidil. Unfortunately, the solution into which Tricomin has been recently formulated gives evidence of inhibiting hair growth. Users often report scalp irritation, itching and flaking. Tricomin Solution contains high levels of ethyl alcohol, detergent and also contains blue dye, all of which may irritate the scalp. This may reduce its overall hair growth effects. Tricomin vs. Minoxidil - Change in number of terminal hairs in tested area Type of Treatment Treatment Group Placebo Control Group Minoxidil 2% after 4 months (nonvellus hair count) +73 +31 Tricomin 2.5% after 3 months (nonvellus hair count) +97 -51 (inhibition of hair growth) Copper-Peptides to Reduce Minoxidil/Retinoic Acid Irritation Copper-peptide (in products such as Folligen, Iamin, and Protect & Restore may be used to reduce minoxidil/retinoic acid irritation. During irritation and inflammation, the skin is damaged by immune cells that release toxic oxygen radicals into the damaged area. The purpose of these oxygen radicals is to kill invading bacteria after wounding but often the oxygen radicals are released in the absence of any bacteria. The use of cortisone and corticosteroids to reduce skin irritation is not recommended. Corticosteroids act by killing the immune cells to stop oxygen radical release but this also kills the immune cells that release the skin repair growth factors and hence stops skin repair which ultimately leads to a thinned and damaged skin. Copper-peptides, on the other hand, directly detoxify the oxygen radicals. They also transfer copper to superoxide dismutase (SOD), the skin's primary anti-oxidant protein, which activates the skin's SOD which further increases the removal of oxygen radicals. Also, the copper-complexes have been shown to strongly stimulate the skin's repair systems and improve healing and skin renewal. The above mentioned nickel allergy study demonstrated both the anti-inflammatory and skin repair properties of copper-peptides. (Zhai et al 1999))

Copper Peptides, have been shown to affect hair and scalp in the following ways: "?? Increase blood flow to the hair follicle by stimulating new blood vessel formation "?? Fuel the cells responsible for production of collagen and other proteins which are plentiful in the hair's growth phase, but not present during the shedding phase "?? Relieve chronic inflammation at the site of the hair follicle, which appears to be a major contributor to the hair loss cycle. Copper Peptides can increase the rate at which skin heals dramatically, and are even used for accelerated healing of hair transplant "?? Provide nutrition to the follicle producing faster growing hair with thicker hair shafts "?? Restore scalp health and normal hair growth after hair transplants, dyes, permanent waving and hair straighteners Is Copper Better Than Propecia?® for Blocking DHT Production? Copper ion in the skin is more effective in inhibiting the type 1 form which is primarily producing the DHT that damages follicles and can be administered locally to the skin. Copper ion is a potent inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase, inhibiting both types of 5-alpha reductase (both type 1 and type 2) that produce DHT and is the only metal to do so. Copper ion inhibits (50% reduction in activity) type 1 alpha reductase at 1.9 micromolar (0.12 micrograms copper ion per milliliter) and type 2 alpha reductase at 19.2 microM (1.2 micrograms copper ion per milliliter). No other metal has these effects. The application of copper-peptides may provide sufficient copper ion into the hair follicle area to block DHT production in the scalp. Metabolically active copper ion (that is, copper ion free to block 5-alpha reductase) in the human body exists at about 1 microgram per milliliter in the blood and less in the skin. While the uptake of ionic copper from copper-peptides applied to the scalp is very low, human experiments by Prof. John Sorenson (University of Arkansas) have found that they can raise copper ion levels in the skin to the effective level of 1 microgram per milliliter. Also Copper-peptides possess significant anti-inflammatory actions which may reduce Personal Note: I had problems with Rogaine in the past, it caused redness and irritation. I used the foam and sure enough within a week the old irritation and general hatred for the product and its maintenance returned. I use Tricomin spray therapy with CP twice a week before I go to bed I dunk my head in blue juice (joking but you get the point)....unlike Rogaine which makes your skin feel like crap, CP in the form of folligen or Tricomin..etc leaves your hair feeling better in fact the mornings after I apply the spray therapy I would notice a marked improvement in texture and feel. Also during the first few months after my HT it helped reduced redness in the recipient area from my observations. My 2cents ??“ I really like the product...and if I find it again I will post a study the CP spray out performed Rogaine 2%.

lol..Al Gore...dude must have patents out the wazzu!

Gp- Minox or Rogaine are for the Crown region, and I would agree with hairbank now that I have used the foam for 4days on my crown that I am already getting tired of the product overall. It has no proven value for the hairline region. Your hair looks good in your pics, and in six months will hopefully look great.

Hey GP, Good to hear you are on top of MSM and UHN they will help some, I did not get a chance to dive into this in my earlier response regarding shock loss and medication (can some times just be an initial shedding)....Also before I do wanted to mention that I used the new Foam-Rogaine 5%(Mark H suggested it rocks, and I think he is right - I hated the old version that left my scalp irritated and this new version does not-to protect what little I have left in the crown region). Ok, could this could be viewed as good or bad. You grafts were planted in your hairline, you switched to Avodart correct? I have read that in some people a period of initial shedding which can concentrate on the hairline is an effect of Avodart...However hair that go through this are deemed to come back in most cases, as this is a sign the medication is working... in some rare cases it has not-I am guessing but I don't think thats you. Stay up, you hit the gym which I have not done for 100days bro and can't wait to go back...So rest easy what will come will come, and you did not use a ton of grafts such that you are stuck in mud forever (you got a HT to solve your hair issue, your battle is not over but you will win and start thinking that way). Lastly H&W are straight up, if you are not happy when you go for your 1 year follow up they will most likely fix it (jotronic correct me if I am wrong on that). I would think at that time to target 55-65grafts per-cm2 in your hairline as that should be dense as hell from what I have seen ...70cm2 that you can spike straight up and block the view of what's in the next region (after the hairline-Alvi style). It would be helpful if you knew what density you got in your hairline and some pics if you're a comfortable with it. p.s. are HT dates are the same day one month apart so I will keep an eye on your progress and be easy GP-I know all about maniacal checking. Jotronic-I was guessing from what I have researched to some degree so don't kick my butt when I come for my follow up for speculating....I got to stop fighting fires with gasoline. You are right 4.5 months is very early still.

hey GP, MSM(methylsulfonyl-methane) is a dietary supplement taken for joint relief... however it has show to increase the rate of nail growth in humans and has some believing in its ability to accelerate hair growth cycles(I take 3000 mg daily M/Night). I also take a multivitamin from GNC I swear by called -Ultra Nourishhair (contains 667% daily biotin which helps cell recovery, and is rich in essential vitamins for the hair A, C, & E). Also I use Tricomin hair therapy which is a leave in hair conditioner that is rich with Copper-Peptides which can help rejuvenate thinning follicles, I use it 2-week on the days I use Nizoral 1%. Hope that helps, and remember on average you should just see the early sign of growth by months 3 & 4 (by six/seven it should really take shape)...I would get on MSM and get things rolling.

GP, Sorry to hear of the not so stellar growth, but as Hairbanks mentions you are very likely just a late bloomer. You mention that you received the grafts mainly to bluster your current hairline, as apposed to my self ( needed many more grafts from Dr.Hasson to bluster the whole top). From the many progress pics and blogs I have looked at.. I have observed that it often takes longer to go from average to great hair(you) then it does bad to average hair(me). So be patient for when your hairline starts to rain it will poor.. If you don't mind me asking, are you taking any thing to speed up growth?...msm, biotin, copper-peptide spray etc..? Dormant follicles RISE!!!

lol MarkH :2Days before my procedure I watched Star Wars , had a dream that Dr.Hasson was the emperor putting together me-(D.Vader). Dormant follicles RISE!!! Great Sarah to Steve post Bill (p.s. you are looking very good for day 6 man much better then I did).