Gasthoerer

3:49 - "I (Dr. Diep) perform both FUE and FUT, but FUE is more popular ..."

Dr. Bloxham, please keep this interesting discussion ongoing. Finally, we have some value in here. My questions are as follows: a) Is this the study you are refering too? hair transplant: Dr. M Beehner’s Study about FUE and FUT There are some numbers given, which are very low (survival rates). FUE is way (!) lower than FUT. But also FUT survival rates are much lower than what Dr. Feller and you typically mention. Why is that? b) I think you didn't specifically adress that Dr. Lupanzala was claiming that singles made from doubles or tripples in FUT are skeletonized. Are the FUT grafts you are showing including typical singles gained from multis? If not, could you adress how they would look (and grow)? c)This might go to Dr. Lupanzala: Is the quality of the FUE grafts shown by Dr. Bloxham, similair to the grafts you typically score? Do you get less skeletonized grafts, which you can show? Or do you think there is not much of a effect on growth anyway (when proper care is taken). Thanks to Dr. Lupanzala again for joining the discussion.

1. No it is not possible. I was completely clear from the beginning. I send my conditions to Dr. Feller and told I will publish them here. Which I did. Dr. Feller said in a PM that he would not accept any (!) conditions. I answered, that I am sorry to hear that, but that I still would not publish my name openly. I alsosaid, that I would be happy if this would we a bilateral discussion (between the clinics) or that as an option (!) Spex could be the moderator. Spex is familiar with all parties involved and I thought that he could serve as “our forum voice”. After that Dr. Feller first published (in the closed threat) “Quote: Originally Posted by Dr. Alan Feller And Gasthoerer, PM me your name and phone number and I won't post it online. I understand this as an acceptance of the other conditions of mine. Why should I send my name, if that would not be the case? When I didn’t reply fast enough (was on a business trip), he even gave the impression in this forum that I didn’t want to give name after his request and if I would he would go through. Quote: Originally Posted by Dr. Alan Feller believe Gasthrower spoke out of turn by claiming that two doctors -who perform FUE and FUT regularly- offered him FUE to the exclusion of FUT. I believe in actuality there is more to his story that he has been omitting. I asked for his real name but he would not give it. After I was back, I send a PM with my full name and a link to my Linkedin Profile for verification. I mentioned again a reminder, that one condition was “to keep it clean”. After that I never heard back neither personally nor in public. Even after I posted again about this topic I was ignored.So there is obviously, no time to answer me (which is ok), but to discuss this with a third party (you). By that behavior, the impression was given, that I didn’t stand by my word or told the untruth: This is not OK. I was always open, transparent and clear. 2. I do not know it either, even though I know the following: - Dr. Feller made the same offer before in another thread to another user, so it seems “important” to him. There was enough time in between (this old offer and the offer to me) to contact any clinic in the world - From my point of view a moderator would be a benefit for this discussion (this is the reason why Spex came into my mind as a replacement for me). Summary: - I do not give my name easily to anyone in an online forum - I did this in good faith and trust as I understand, we (Dr. Feller and myself) had an agreement - If Dr. Feller changes his mind afterwards, this is ok, but I think an explanation (to me and the forum) would be the normal way to go - To talk to a third party and by that give the impression that I was “not transparent” is a big no go - I am happy to proof all my words, if Dr. Feller or the mods let me publish all PM here (with only my name whipped out).

Thank you, I understand that you are busy. Answers will be appreciated at any time :-)

Thank you very much for this information, and bonus point for appologizing to Dr. Feller! I appreciate good behavior. @Dr. Feller, However, cause the offer was made to me (several times) and I even exposed my name to you (Dr. Feller), I would like to learn the "full context" as well. Not receiving any answer to my posts and/or my personal message is not very polite. Especially, when private discussions take place with a 3rd forum member about me. If the interviews are performed without me, I am of course happy that they take place anyway. I even mentioned this way myself or voted for another moderator like Spex. However, I hope some of my questions (which started all this) are included and (most important) numbers are dicussed (not just: fuss is better than FUE). In general, I do not understand why you (Dr. Feller) asked me anyway, if you plan to procede alone. You have made the same offer before to another user long ago. Therfore, you had plenty of time to procede alone.

I would not call new inventions (even with a not so wisely chosen name) lame. But I would love to have my questions answered.

No, unfortunately the studies are thin. But I have read some studies which indicate that, not only DUT grows more hair, but there is also an increase in diameter. That would be my main hope. I have a very unorthodox DPA with many "semi velus" hairs. If DUT changes them to terminal hair I would be a NW 1.5.

Dr. Bloxham, This mFUE topic is very interesting. And no, I do not like the name either, but I think for an educated client the name is really not important. FUT is also wrong name for strip. Why it is interesting: I would like to have strip like grafts, but I do not want a strip scar as there is a stigma with it. Actually, I do have many scars in my face, so I would not mind a scar, but I do not want a scar which says "cosmetic surgery". Anyway, I have some questions: - If you actually close the "wounds" similiar to strip, why don't you just do mini-strips. I know you mentioned that Dr. Feller (!) tried but scaring was poor. Why is that? Why should this method give better scaring. I just do not understand it. - How do you avoid dissecting the grafts around your punch? Compared to a real strip you score just very few grafts per "cut". The transection rate in the donor has to be very high, or am I misleaded? - Do you only score classic safe zone as strip or in the extended zone of FUE?

Dr. Bloxham, just for my understanding: You just mixed up FUT and FUE, right? If I am correct, than let me ask some questions: - Is there really no reson to perform more than 2500 grafts (your definition of a megasession) as a FUE? Meaning: If you need > 2500 grafts you should do FUT even if you are a bad candidate or you shouldn't do any surgery? Or is the meaning of this sentence, that there can't be any medical resons not to have a FUT? - What is below that threshold of 2500? Why is your threshold so much different from that of Dr. Feller (he mentioned around 500 grafts). Or did I make a misinterpretation of your post or Dr. Fellers post regarding this thresholds?

Well, my estimate of 2030 shows, that I am not positive about anything new as well :-( Honestly speaking, I am thinking about Dut to see ,if it gives me some regrowth in the crown. If I can close the crown I need just a minor tweek in the front and I am fine.

I am a diffuse thinner as well (DPA). FIN slowed my loss dramtically down. If I would have reacted earlier (2-3 years), than I would not waste my time in online forums and could wait happily until the cure is found in 2030..

Actually, I think it looks good. You have cut the hair really short and still it looks OK. Looks like a nice results when grown out. Maybe hairline needs some final touch up, but well, which transplanted hair line couldn't.

To be fair: There aren't many "FUT specialist" supporting you either. Actually, almost no other clinics post here much more than their own results. But, we were about to change this, right? Did you already get into contact with the clinics we discussed? To speed up the process, here are already my first questions: 1. What is the percentage of FUT and FUE in your clinic. 2. Is there a minimum number of grafts below that you recommend FUE over FUT (in average, of course it depends on the case)? What is this number? What is the reason (e. g. scarring, yield, location of the recipient area …)? 3. Can you break down the single steps of both surgeries and give an average “efficacy” (sorry for the lack of a better word)? E. g. Scoring, Extraction, insertion, … Can you name the dependencies as a function of the number of grafts. 4. Do you think that the number of “injured” grafts today is still similar to the results shown in the “FOX test”-Study? 5. How do is the difference in growth (e. g. shaft diameter) for the grafts which are rated as “injured” and the one which are rated as “not injured” from FUE compared to FUT in th long haul? 6. Is there an optimum extraction speed for FUE (=more damage below and above this speed) or is slower always better? 7. How is the number of totals failures (the x-factor) in FUE and FUT? 8. Do you see an effect of FUE scaring on the yield of a second procedure (=worse results in a second surgery?). 9. How do you make sure that you get the right amount of grafts in your strip? What happens if you get too few or too much? More questions will most likely follow!

I think you have a point here. FUT might look cruel to some people and they prefer FUE for that reason. Personally, I have gone to many (!) much more pain from injuries and surgeries than any FUT will cause (according to all sources I have). What many (including me) fear is the stigma of a hair transplant. Even though times are changing a strip scar (if visible) is recognized by every laymen (to stick with Dr. Feller's words) as a sign of hair surgery. This can lead to negative aspects in social live or business live. FUE scars (even if visible) or not as clearly related to a hair transplant for a laymen. Just watch the NBA finals, Steph Curry (who never had a hair transplant) looks like he has FUE scars from distance. In reality it is just his curly hair with a fade cut.

Do you actually read what you write? You cannot be serious with this and you owe me an apology. Again! 1. Yes, just read this post or actually just this few sentence, which are completely inappropriate and out of hands. 2. Which facts? In this particular moment, we can’t even discuss facts, because you start a dogfight without any reason and without sticking to any topic. Keep in mind, I never badmouthed you in any way. I even defended you against other users. 3. I came to this thread cause you mentioned my name in another thread which…was closed because of you aggressive behavior (See a similarity?). Therefore, I could just answer in this thread, which was about a very similar topic. Also, just because this is “your” thread, the forum rules (and the rules of good behavior in general) are still valid. 4. What has this to do with anything, we two are discussing right now? Nothing! But maybe there is another reason, why no one wants to “discuss” with you (please refer to 1 and 2). Like I said before, this is a discussion forum for patients. If you strictly want to have exchange with colleagues, you have to go the same route as any scientist: Publish papers in journals and have them reviewed and/or speak at a congress about hair transplantation. If you come to an open forum, anyone can ask questions if this is done in an appropriate way. Which I do and I will not change this.

Dr. Feller, this is a dicussion forum. I am discussing in a nice and approbriate manner. Please do the same. There is nothing in my posts, which gives you a reason or even a justicfication to get as offensive as you do. "You are uninformed and your posts are misleading." Please tell me, where I have given false or misleading information! "You have: Never performed a surgery. Never seen one performed. Probably never even met a person on whom a procedure was performed, Have no medical training. Have no actual medical experience. Have no intimate knowledge of what's going on." Where do you get this information from? Some of these statesments are clearly wrong. "I perform both procedures, and even a third, and can tell you with force that FUE is a bad idea for a megassion if you have the choice to have an FUT." Where is this coming from? I never, ever (!) said that FUE is the better option for megasessions. You must confuse me with someone else. P.S. And actually, you are only (!) discussion laymen here. This is (!) a forum for laymen or better patients. What I fear is that because of your aggresive behavior no other clinic will join.

Dr. Feller, at first, I am hardly an uninformed patient. Maybe I am not a hair transplant professional, but I think I know much more than the average person having a hair transplant And I think many users in here are very well informed as well. Secondly, I see a waste of grafts as a bad thing. But I have a hard time to see the similarities between a clinic which on purpose (!) throwing grafts away and a clinic performing FUE. Throwing grafts ways (without any medical indication) is just plain wrong an unethical. No reason for a debate at all. FUE vs. FUT is a matter of math. How much is the difference in growth (and potential damage for further procedures) and how much do I bother to have a strip scar. If the clinic doesn't give rightfull information (that FUT will have a better result in average), this is also unethical. But having an FUE on a patient per se is not unethical. Actually, I can be even the better method depending on the number of grafts. The debate is: Which number is this? 500? 1000? 1500? 2000?

Dear Mav, I do not believe this was a bluff. Actually, I belive Dr. Feller, that he is as passionate about this topic as it appears here. Unfortunately, I do not believe that another clinic would agree. This could be great value for many user in this forum, but it could also end in a big mess and slugfest. The clinics would have nothing to gain, but much to lose. That is why I asked also "to keep it clean". But I have send Dr. Feller my name anyway, as he promised to not disclose it. Let us see how other clinics react.

Dr. Feller, I think in general you are right with this statement. Many patients and folks in the the internet get out of their mind. I think this is human nature. But, if you refer to the case in this forum, which I also have posted in, you have missed also some points. - The clinic itself was posting within this thread and failed to give information (e. g. medical reasons) - It is the duty of the clinic to explain to the client (and make sure he understands) that there are (!) medical reasons. By the way, if any (I am not saying they are) of the claims are correct (like asking for money during surgery or throwing away grafts without any medical indication) this is (!) indeed highly unethical. Especialy the number of grafts discussed in this particular case, are a significant %-tage of the overall available graft count. As hard as you fight for FUT over FUE because of density and available grafts, you should be shocked if such a number of grafts would be wasted.

I do not understand this comment! Of course, 6000 grafts will make the donor look thiner. It is simple math, right? Even with FUT the donor would be thinner. Less hair on same surface = thinner. And yes, you can also see the FUE scars (even though this is a good healing result). But imagine this short with a strip? FUT would be much (!) more easy to call out by anyone not only people from a forum about hairtransplant.

Thank you for sharing this information. My questions: Does this mean, that folks who are prone to larger scars will have larger scars in an FUT and (!) FUE (this is what I believe). Or will it only affect FUT results (this is what a clinic told me and I had a hard time to believe). It was a FUE and FUT clinic by the way.

Sorry, I answer in here, cause the other thread was closed. Unfortuantely, I have been on a business tripp and could not access the forum (as I do not like to use the company computer). Please apollogize for the late reaction. Like i mentionen before: If you agree to the conditions which I send by PM and stated in the forum, I would love to be part in this. Please, Dr. Feller, I did not spoke "out of turn". You (!) mentionend two clincis, which (by chance) I had visited before. This is what I wrote: QUOTE: "I second this choice of surgeons. Personally I had a consultation with two of them in the past, and going to have a further consultation up soon with one of them. My questions will be after the ongoing discussion here: - Why did they not recommend FUT but FUE for my case exactly (the gave some explanatio but I will deep dive and ask again). - Which number of grafts is there borderline between FUE and FUT (in average) in their opinion. By the way and without judging the methods by this statement: Both of them told me that their majority of work is FUE today. Only one mentioned a number (or maybe from only one I recall) and it was > 90 %. " END OF QUOTE Furthermore, there is nothing to "ommit". I even gave some specifics to my case, after a poster asked me, why I am going for second visit: QUOTE"Because I am a difficult case (DPA with bad hair/skin contrast and low hairline), I am planning carefully. I have to decide between several options to start (Front and top, only front, only front in a very conservative way). FUT or FUE depends also on the options I pick. Therefore I am going back to check, after now 2 years on meds, how stable the loss is and which option is best." END OF QUOTE. Like mentioned before, I am happy to have such a discussion. I am happy to give you (!) my name, if it is not publised online. But my conditions was also to "keep it clean", if the clinic opts in or out. I do not want to be part in a slugfest. I will ask the clinic I visit this questions anyway, but I admit that with your knowledge the discussion would be much more valuable.

Thank you and congratulations. Grow well :-)

This was not specified. I have an assumption too, but Dr. Feller has to speak for himself (if he wishes to). As I mentioned before, we have to accept anyones conditions, without any explaination required.

Wow, another slugfest, what a surprise. Cause everyone is so one-sided, there is no benefit for anyone. The badmouthing is just the icing on the cake. There are two methods, both have their pros and their cons. Interesting is how much the differences are percentage wise. Then and then only, eEveryone knows what is the better choice and he can judge against his own situation and of course preference (e. g. how far do I want to shave down, how afraid am I from the strip scar,...). Posting worst case scenarios will not help.