BlackAmish111

Dude that looks great! I was scared for ya after seeing your 6 months and thought all the "Just wait -your only half way there" -was just lip service. Guess I was wrong... That also greatly inspires me cause I just hit 6months 2 days ago and although somewhat happy, I'm still needing toppik pretty regularly. Here's hopin!

Is it hereditary? I started going thin (hairline) in my twenties and then it kept growing back and found out it was my thyroid. Bad news was some of it was real baldness and went on Fin and Minoxidil which help somewhat, especially in the first 5 years but finally they seemed less effective so I went and had the HT. Good to get a doc's opinion, think about the various meds, and HT as last resort though 21 is pretty young to go that route.

Why are you guys prolonging this? Obviously Hairguy was not happy with his end result whether or not you believe 6 months was too early to decide. The bottom line is - he paid and was disappointed. Dissatisfied enough to have another procedure done and the fact of both the emotional and financial stress involved should be allowed to voice it. You had a great result with this doctor? Awesome. Great, let it be known and people researching this topic will have that valued opinion. Hairguy didn't -let it be known and voiced equally. Your never gonna be able to convince someone to like something they don't like -leave it already.

Yep -that's outstanding

I take fin and Prop -both for probably 5 years with no noticeable sides. I hear your pain and just wanted to give you some encouragement as the 900+ graft FUT is the best single thing I've done for my appearance and peace of mind. No more staring at myself in the mirror before work calculating how much worse I look today then yesterday. Alls I can say is do your full research, ask your doctor to map out their plan before surgery day -I can't emphasize this enough. Best O' luck!

I have no clue but consider me a fan! Some real impressive results on that page.

Nobody's displacing the patient end need to research - but that doesn't negate the fact that some doctor's protocol for involving the patient in a thorough design plan beforehand. The more I look into it now, the more I can see that some doctors indeed do a very in depth battle line drawing of how they are going to approach it, while others (even of the higher pedigrees), have a much more minimalistic approach whereby seeming to rely more on their own artistic instinct and experience.

@Blake & Nick: Yeah, without question getting a highly accurate prediction for something as unruly as hair would be a major hurdle. Interesting that it was once used though... I could surely see people blowing there lids while expecting 100% replication of the computer generated model. Then of course, you could even have false bait in a sense -Bosley may use a model that "predicts" better results then Dr.X -just to lure in more customers. So I can see the difficulties, but I can also see the bonuses. First and foremost I'm after where exactly the hairline etc.. will be placed -on a 3d picture of me, right in front of me. If I can afford X amount of grafts -I would like to be able to sit in the 'war room' with the doctor and have them say "With 1500 grafts, I would place the majority here, here and here" as depending on your NW, face shape etc.. "Now with only 800 grafts, I would focus more on this area as to create the illusion of density..." Hopefully you can see what I'm getting at. The prediction aspect of this pre-design is not really what I'm after though that could be a fun aspect of it with a HUGE disclaimer beforehand - results may very -lol!

Thanks for your input fellas. I do want to say that my biggest worry -the scar -she did an expert job on and that in itself is a relief. The growth stage is still early, and my current feeling is that on some days with some toppik, it looks a lot better. other days it seems that I just really wish we could have broadened the hairline graft area some more and it would have been perfect (minus the half dime sized bare area that is). If it comes out great in a few months, I will come back and give her full props for her work -I just wish she had spent at least a few minutes meeting with me and allowing me in the gameplan design a bit more.

-From Shampoo renavigated from Hairguy350's thread. Well I guess this is pretty hard to answer. I had indeed studied these forums as well as other sites for a long time to try and get a better grip on what HR really entails. I talked to various doctors at length over the phone as well met with a Bosely rep before I really understood to stay away from the chains. Admittedly my main focus was that I wanted FUE, but doctors were telling me I didn't look like a good candidate due to my wiry, mixed race hair. My top was thinning but I was really only concerned with the advancing widows peak. After talking with Dr Keene, repeatedly, she agreed to try FUE and for her price I could only afford 800 grafts as I had to cancel all my business and travel expenses were costly for me -on top of that a wife who thought I was crazy to spend that kind of money -lol. Frankly, I was really worried about an FUT scar after watching so many gruesome videos, the thought of that mighty gash in my head vs pinpricks -well, lets just say the FUE looked far more up my alley. Anyways, yes, they had me prepay and in all our phone discussions she just said that the 800 would nicely frame the face. I guess I just didn't know when the actual lines were gonna be drawn but I anticipated at least a short sitdown before the procedure started -that didn't happen.. To make matters worse when she first walked in she did greet me quickly but then just blurted out, "You can't do FUE! Look at your hair!". I forgot to mention that I had sent emails far before that asking for FUE -BUT, if it didn't work I'd PROBABLY just go for the FUT" -in which she said fine. As time grew closer, I became more worried about being forced into FUT and called the clinic again, I asked the nurse what would happen if we tried FUE and it failed -she put me on hold, asked the doctor, and then said I'd merely lose my deposit of $1000. I said fine. Well, it wasn't fine. After meeting her and her telling me FUE was just probably just not going to work but she did agree to try 20 grafts. I said That if they didn't take, I'd most likely forfeit the deposit and walk away. this didn't sit well with her and she became visibly irate -"Well, we're just going to have to change our policy" and walked out in a huff to give me time to think. Now remember, I was already freakin anxious over the whole setting and rushed feeling -now the doctor who could be cutting me soon was pissed at me -not good! Her very nice Asst. chilled me out and told me that with my amount of donar hair (NW2?), it would just be a small incision on the top left of my head -not the back. I finally agreed as not wanting to waste a once in a longtime opportunity and signed the paper. After all that, the doctor came back in, drew two very quick circles around my forehead recession and said "You want like this?"........ The FUE failed and we did the FUT and they nicely added an extra 100 grafts. The problem is, how is that in any way considered a good gameplan? Im pretty sure the lines she drew encompassed a lot more space than the thin perimeter actually filled but now I can never no because A. No design lines picture taken B. No post op pictures taken I had also asked if she could thread the grafts back a little more to the tuft area directly behind the perimeter but she said those area hairs were too strong and may promote shock loss. Now I see that area thinning and actually have space between old hairline new hairline in which I have to smear Toppik to cover. At slightly over 5 months, I'm not freaking out and maybe the bare spot will somehow conceal itself better with more maturing but my overall problem is just the feeling that the whole thing was really rushed and too much focus on the money at my arrival. The Asst./'s were very nice but I also clearly remember them saying "See, if you had gotten FUE we'd all have to be here all day!" The last point would be that I probably would have opted for more grafts with the saved costs (pre-payed) but that was never brought up or addressed. I just think that doctors need to remember that this is a BIG DAY for us and to really understand we may be overwhelmed by it all and need their support and patience.

@Shampoo: Ill respond in the Pre-Design (Q&A) thread to your question as not to further derail this case.

Have to admit Hairguy, looks like you were involved in the design phase and you seem to be upright with multiple designs being offered. Is it possible you blanked it all out due to your med knockout? Honestly I wish my Doctor had mapped out alternates that I could choose from rather than the 5 second offering...

@Atticus: Your link still doesn't work -it says "Your session has expired" Why is his current doctor even being brought into question here? Obviously Hairguy is unhappy with his previous work with Dr. Umar -not his current doctor. I'm guessing the insinuation is that he's being treated by a doctor with some sort of vendetta against his previous doctor and is now using poor Hairguy as a pawn in some weird payback??? Bizarre and pretty insulting to Hairguy if you ask me.

@Greatjob: Yes you are correct. I'll take all further debate to the Pre-design thread as this is unfair to Umar and Hairguy. Black-out.

Lol calm down. No I don't think this site is compromised but I certainly have noticed a tendency to gang tackle negative reviews for established doctors in which the poster is often treated withj total mistrust if not outright contempt. As far as this "perfect world" in which doctors provide 'perfect pre-design and consult' -it's not perfection I'm after, it's spending more time presenting what the patient can expect in more visual terms. As per my engineer/architect example, this is NOT asking a lot. The visual presentation doesn't imply perfect calculation of 2 years growth -but the actual hairline that will be sought as well as different patterns they could go after with different graft amounts. This is a reasonable request. Yes, to me. As I stated in previous posts I was asked if "this was the hairline I wanted" minutes before injection and the artistry of the demonstration left a lot to be desired. I was also surprised that I didn't get to meet the doctor until it was "go time". How about educating future prospects of this so they know this may happen? Ever consider the possibility that even an expert can be sloppy? Can rely too much on experience + reputation and sometimes lose their edge for a single case? Again, you weigh too heavily on post count and "who's been around longer" -that shouldn't disqualify a customer's bad experience. That is faulty judgement. After looking at Hairguy's 6 month photo, I would certainly be unhappy with that result as well.

Here we go -part of the education is letting prospective clients know that their doctor may not show them a potential hairline until minutes before the injections start. That is EXACTLY why I'm bringing it up. Again bingo!! And even without said software -which there really is no excuse for a doctor not to have, some simple photoshopped pictures of potential hairlines is not a hard task. This is also the doctors responsibility but it just hasn't been demanded as standard ...yet. There are free websites in which you simply place a photo of yourself and within seconds you can see how a nose job/facelift/eye whatever etc would look and it morphs you in real time. Doctors take note -make it happen.

Interesting. Did any of them give you accurate visual representation of what to expect? My pre-design experience was extremely vague and as a layman client, the doctor should have every obligation of showing you what to expect. For instance, Dr Umar stated that the client wanted an "aggressive hairline" -what does that mean? Why not demonstrate on a simple picture what one is talking about? Well I followed your link and watched my own as well as the other 'elite doctors' bios -they are just that Bio's basically asking you to trust their experience and artistic instinct that they've developed. I ask you -have you ever had a house built? an addition? a device built and patented? I have. In all instances the builder, architect, engineer devised intensive VISUAL plan of what exactly they are going to do -before I paid them. Why on earth would anyone trust their one head without such planning? Why are we letting doctors off the hook with blind trust built of off forum reviews and sales sites? Sorry, I just don't get it. I agree this is bad -one should be prompt and ready to go when the appt. is set. That said, the doctor should also not have waited 10 minutes before surgery to draw the battle lines. This should have been set WEEKS ago! That would end all of the he said/she said as well as give the patient a relatively good idea of what to expect. I have my own experience which is of course, paramount, as well as read countless posts here and abroad -"Hmm, not to happy with the design choice. When I get my next one, Ill............" -often speaking of now being better informed and more aptly able to communicate what exactly is needed and to be done. Honestly, I really don't get your reluctance to help future patients this way..? I'm utterly baffled unless perhaps your are somehow in the employ or business yourself. How can we, as a consumer base, possibly lose in demanding a certain standard to pre-design from all doctors?

Yeah well that's also my business -strength and conditioning camps. Im a lifelong lifter so maybe my body's responses are more controlled as it's so accustomed to it. The clinic said 10 days to 2 weeks for light lifting/exercise. Again Im fairly sure the placement of my donar area also makes a big difference -if it had been in the back of my head i'm sure it would have been more affected as that is more closely related to the neck and traps -muscles that fire for just about every move. I can't stress this enough!

-Dr. Umar So here is the crux of it. Does the doctor mean he was not sedated as in -no sedatives were yet given or in that, no effects were yet visible? And yet, even if it was the previous - why should in the face of $10,000+ surgery with the very real prospect of a permanent change to the most noticeable feature a persons got -(the head!) - should constitute more than a quick line drawn a few minutes before surgery?!? My lines drawn consisted of two very quick circles that looked like the text bubble of a cartoon and a quick "Like this?" was asked. It was obvious the staff and doctor were hot to trot to get started and being already overwhelmed by an irate conversation of procedure type by the doctor -this is hardly the time for design! On top of that I'm pretty sure my hairline isn't as low as the bubbles lines were but the doctor never took post-op pics to boot.... Guys, stop the wagon rallying and lets push for industry change in this extremely important area. @Shampoo: You said certain doctors were advancing in this direction and I asked you who and how? Please expand.

Please let me know what doctors are doing what as far as this is concerned? It is my belief that an enormous amount of dissatisfaction in the hair restoration industry could be avoided if this was made standard. I'm only in this to help others who are still on the fence -I have zero interest in either elevating or denigrating doctors.

Well I suppose this could go either way yet in neither case would I call it "outrageous". Should be discussed in private only unless they are in a court of law. Strongly disagree. How much do you want to bet many of these or any respected doctors are on anti anxiety/depressants? I and I'm sure the moderators would consider it in poor taste if not right impermissible to have conversations about doctor's personal prescriptions, lifestyles, anxieties or the like. Unless we are talking about a raving lunatic in which case neither the doctor should be practicing nor the patient served. Again, you would be surprised at the amount of Dr's who themselves are treated for various afflicts, addictions etc...As long as they perform well within licensing guidelines, you generally won't here about it. *Sighs*. So post count and lack of track record discredits the consumer on this site? I don't care if he had 1 post, he has articulated his complaint very well and I for one find it credible. Sorry if I was mistaken, I came to this site in the first place to find fellow consumers who could better help guide me thru this quite intimidating and somewhat unknown process. I'm not interested in a cheerleading squad for rock star elevated doctors, just the facts and experiences of others in my shoes. The bottom line is that the pre-design plan was not sufficient for this client -THAT, is valuable information for a new person still trying to formulate what questions to ask, how to have the best line of communication with their doctor. I could have used this type of "warning" before going in myself as I just kind of assumed by the doctors reputation that "all would be well". A forum full of "He's awesome!!" "More great work!" -doesn't really help prepare the newcomer for what to expect. It's very possible that Dr Umar does 99% outstanding work and had a bad day -no? Or maybe much like the industry , needs to make more effort to solidify the pre-design plan way before launch time? Or maybe he's just isn't very good? All are possible and a smart consumer reads the good with the bad and filters it all into a final decision. But make no mistake, silencing critics helps no one.

@Shampoo: Stating that pre-design plan was not sufficient before being administered meds is not an "outrageous claim" nor is it some over the top attack on Dr. Umar character. The fact that I also as well as many other posts I've read here, experienced poor pre-design planning makes it at the very least a credible claim worth investigating. Again, the Doctor need only address those facts to defend himself and going public with a patient's private mood disruptions should be frowned upon. I don't think a doctor would appreciate his or hers prescription for Prozac being aired out on public forums -the same credence should apply to patients. Again, his method (alleged) of poor pre-design before medication is what is under attack -not Dr. Umar the person. And yes, a doctor or any businessman that is privy to a clients personal situation should refrain from exposing them just to undermine their complaint. Trust me, In my business I know enough to end marriages yet I would never reveal such information just because I had a fall out with a client and they criticized me online. I am also familiar with PTSD and that is not sufficient to claim a client is of unreasonable mind to make a complaint. Like I said, if he was, he should have been screened out beforehand. I am more interested in changing the industry commitment to pre-design excellence than anything else and would be very curious to hear other doctor's opinion on the matter.

Anyways, enough on the sidetrack. I think this brings up a similar point to the thread I started here https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/172138-what-protocol-hairline-design.html#post2363355 I also felt that a solid, precise and fully illustrated pre-design was lacking although my Dr. had a solid line in that certain discussions could not be had after I was medicated. It seems clear by this case that expectations were different by the client and I'm really trying to understand why the profession as a whole doesn't approach this in a more visually compelling way. For example, take a picture of their face, and show them exactly where the hairline will be place with said amount of grafts -why is this so hard?

The Doctor or any business beats a case of incorrect allegations by disputing the facts -not the character of said patient. Case in point you've now already labeled the patient as "suffering from mental problems". Do you know how many people in the world are treated for depression? Are they all now unqualified to state that something was treated properly in their case or all they all just a bunch of nutjobs? In that case, a Psychiatrist would have carte blanche in that any and all allegations would be met with "What do you want -my clients crazy?". That would go for any doctor if the client had a mild case of depression. Ludicrous. It's easy enough to dispute the facts of the case, contact the client privately and state that this concern is being worked out privately -in the public forum. If he was indeed too fragile to treat initially, he should have been screened out in the first place. Should never have had to come to this.

It is fair game because that is relevant to the exact reason we are all here. First of all, all us HR clients are "drugged" and to what is considered acceptable or not is outside my paygrade so I won't comment. Personally I have a high tolerance to such drugs and could have definitely used something stronger as I had a moment of high anxiety buts that's for a different thread. As far as reckless, we are talking about whether hairline was discussed either prior or after the client was medicated -that's it. Is it possible that Dr. Umar felt it was fully discussed prior while the patient sees otherwise? Absolutely. But to bring the patients mental issues, especially in light of the fact that he is clearly a combat vet suffering from PTSD is in very poor taste in my opinion. Yes he has the right to say as he pleases in his own defense, but surely better more tasteful methods could have been considered first.