5,015 graft extraction, missing grafts? 1700 or 2700 graft FUT, Dr. Blake Bloxham

[Chair]

6 hours ago, bluebird00 said:

To answer your question, I need two things:

First, an explanation for the misconduct surrounding my surgery:

Who was the other doctor who operated on me without my consent?
Where are the missing grafts? Based on the combined area of the donor strips (59 cm²), I should have had at least 4000 grafts extracted. So, where are they?
Why were three strips taken, and why was my surgery extended to 11 hours, which is twice the normal duration?
Dr. Bloxham told me at the time of surgery that 1700 grafts were transplanted, as supported by all my photographic evidence. So, why did I have to pay for 2700 grafts?
Why is Dr. Bloxham avoiding discussing my case, both in private (he has avoided transcribing his own handwriting in my OR report, which is just bizarre) and now publicly?

Second, a full refund. I feel completely violated and used as a training tool by Dr. Bloxham, seemingly for practice by another doctor and likely by other technicians. I can only believe that the misconduct of my surgery is due to this, and thus a full refund is in order.

I’d also feel violated by that clinic. I’m not sure why they are so recommended. I’ve been hearing bad stories lately. 

[Melvin- Admin]

18 hours ago, bluebird00 said:

To answer your question, I need two things:

First, an explanation for the misconduct surrounding my surgery:

Who was the other doctor who operated on me without my consent?
Where are the missing grafts? Based on the combined area of the donor strips (59 cm²), I should have had at least 4000 grafts extracted. So, where are they?
Why were three strips taken, and why was my surgery extended to 11 hours, which is twice the normal duration?
Dr. Bloxham told me at the time of surgery that 1700 grafts were transplanted, as supported by all my photographic evidence. So, why did I have to pay for 2700 grafts?
Why is Dr. Bloxham avoiding discussing my case, both in private (he has avoided transcribing his own handwriting in my OR report, which is just bizarre) and now publicly?

Second, a full refund. I feel completely violated and used as a training tool by Dr. Bloxham, seemingly for practice by another doctor and likely by other technicians. I can only believe that the misconduct of my surgery is due to this, and thus a full refund is in order.

First, I want to say that i’m not invalidating your feelings.

Who was the other doctor who operated on me without my consent?

It’s fairly normal for clinics with multiple surgeons to jump in and assist when necessary. Not saying you shouldn’t have been advised of this beforehand. But I don’t know if you can call that misconduct, especially if it’s in the paperwork you sign. 

Where are the missing grafts? Based on the combined area of the donor strips (59 cm²), I should have had at least 4000 grafts extracted. So, where are they?

Where are you coming up with these numbers? Is it your assumption that you should have had at least 4,000 grafts? Did a surgeon tell you thats a number based on an in person examination?

Like I mentioned earlier, having anonymous users eyeball numbers based on pictures is nothing more than speculation. Unless a surgeon used a trichoscope and measured the density in a particular cm2 strip, these numbers cannot be considered accurate.

One of the biggest drawbacks with FUT is you can’t cherry pick grafts. For example, you might have mostly single-haired follicular units (fu) out of the strip. Which may have amounted to 2,700 grafts. 

However, implanting that will leave a sparse appearance, so its possible he combined the single follicular units to add density. That’s how 2,700 grafts could be transplanted into 1700 sites. It’s not uncommon. Though, this should have been communicated during surgery. 

I agree. An explanation would clear a lot of things up and wouldn’t leave this up to interpretation. 

Second, a full refund. I feel completely violated and used as a training tool by Dr. Bloxham, seemingly for practice by another doctor and likely by other technicians. I can only believe that the misconduct of my surgery is due to this, and thus a full refund is in order.

Unfortunately, hair transplantation is not an exact science. There’s a level of risk you are assuming as a patient. Clinics have you sign a copious amount of paperwork laying out that poor growth and scarring may occur, by signing you’re assuming the risk. For that reason alone clinics do not refund. There are no guarantees with surgery. 

These are just my thoughts. If you want to find an amicable solution. Keep an open line of communication. If you only talk via a public forum, you’re not going to achieve the desired outcome. Even if you were to receive a full refund, the clinic would have to protect themselves and have you sign an NDA. But it’s already public here, i’m not sure that’s possible anymore. It’s always best to work with the clinic, rather than against them. Go in person, state your case, consult with other surgeons. Do not use this one thread on a public forum as your evidence, because it’s not. 

[jjalay]

50 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

First, I want to say that i’m not invalidating your feelings.

Who was the other doctor who operated on me without my consent?

It’s fairly normal for clinics with multiple surgeons to jump in and assist when necessary. Not saying you shouldn’t have been advised of this beforehand. But I don’t know if you can call that misconduct, especially if it’s in the paperwork you sign. 

Where are the missing grafts? Based on the combined area of the donor strips (59 cm²), I should have had at least 4000 grafts extracted. So, where are they?

Where are you coming up with these numbers? Is it your assumption that you should have had at least 4,000 grafts? Did a surgeon tell you thats a number based on an in person examination?

Like I mentioned earlier, having anonymous users eyeball numbers based on pictures is nothing more than speculation. Unless a surgeon used a trichoscope and measured the density in a particular cm2 strip, these numbers cannot be considered accurate.

One of the biggest drawbacks with FUT is you can’t cherry pick grafts. For example, you might have mostly single-haired follicular units (fu) out of the strip. Which may have amounted to 2,700 grafts. 

However, implanting that will leave a sparse appearance, so its possible he combined the single follicular units to add density. That’s how 2,700 grafts could be transplanted into 1700 sites. It’s not uncommon. Though, this should have been communicated during surgery. 

I agree. An explanation would clear a lot of things up and wouldn’t leave this up to interpretation. 

Second, a full refund. I feel completely violated and used as a training tool by Dr. Bloxham, seemingly for practice by another doctor and likely by other technicians. I can only believe that the misconduct of my surgery is due to this, and thus a full refund is in order.

Unfortunately, hair transplantation is not an exact science. There’s a level of risk you are assuming as a patient. Clinics have you sign a copious amount of paperwork laying out that poor growth and scarring may occur, by signing you’re assuming the risk. For that reason alone clinics do not refund. There are no guarantees with surgery. 

These are just my thoughts. If you want to find an amicable solution. Keep an open line of communication. If you only talk via a public forum, you’re not going to achieve the desired outcome. Even if you were to receive a full refund, the clinic would have to protect themselves and have you sign an NDA. But it’s already public here, i’m not sure that’s possible anymore. It’s always best to work with the clinic, rather than against them. Go in person, state your case, consult with other surgeons. Do not use this one thread on a public forum as your evidence, because it’s not. 

How do you know that he had mostly singles on the strips and that he combined singles to add density?This sounds like assumptions to defend the doctor to me. This doctor is recommended in this forum and he should explain this situation publicly in this forum as it is demanded for doctors that are recommended here, otherwise there is no point for patients to present their cases here. Also if another doctor started making slits on the patients head to get training on fue this is definitely not ok.

[FormerFutureKrillin]

13 minutes ago, jjalay said:

How do you know that he had mostly singles on the strips and that he combined singles to add density?This sounds like assumptions to defend the doctor to me. This doctor is recommended in this forum and he should explain this situation publicly in this forum as it is demanded for doctors that are recommended here, otherwise there is no point for patients to present their cases here. Also if another doctor started making slits on the patients head to get training on fue this is definitely not ok.

Think he agreed an explanation from the doctor would clear this up. As was mentioned earlier, there should be a breakdown of the types of FUs (1s, 2s, 3s, 4s) easily available which would probably help put this to bed - its surprising that information hasn’t been provided to OP.

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, jjalay said:

How do you know that he had mostly singles on the strips and that he combined singles to add density?This sounds like assumptions to defend the doctor to me. This doctor is recommended in this forum and he should explain this situation publicly in this forum as it is demanded for doctors that are recommended here, otherwise there is no point for patients to present their cases here. Also if another doctor started making slits on the patients head to get training on fue this is definitely not ok.

I’m giving a plausible explanation. I’m not saying this is what happened. But that is why i’m telling him to consult with a surgeon in person. I believe patients should try to work with the clinic first, rather than try to do so on a public forum. You’re making assumptions yourself, who said the doctor was doing slits for training? These are speculations. 

[bluebird00]

On 3/9/2024 at 1:31 PM, Melvin- Admin said:

I’m giving a plausible explanation. I’m not saying this is what happened. But that is why i’m telling him to consult with a surgeon in person. I believe patients should try to work with the clinic first, rather than try to do so on a public forum. You’re making assumptions yourself, who said the doctor was doing slits for training? These are speculations. 

You are asking me to consult with another surgeon, one who would publicly disagree with Dr. Bloxham. This would involve costs (consultation fees) and time, and finding a surgeon willing to publicly criticize and/or disagree with a colleague is highly unlikely. So, what’s the point?

Why can’t Dr. Bloxham help me understand what happened? I want him to publicly address all the concerns raised in my initial post. He is more than capable of doing this, yet he has avoided doing so. Please refer to my recent edit, which includes donor density photos suggesting that even more grafts are missing. I have also attached my donor density images to this reply:

 

A total area of 59 cm² was removed from the back of my head, indicating that approximately 5015 grafts were extracted, based on a calculation of 85 FU/cm² × 59 cm². The operating room report states that 2700 grafts were implanted. Assuming this is accurate, then have I incurred a permanent loss of 2315 grafts? If only 1700 grafts were implanted, then have I incurred a permanent loss of 3315 grafts?

I'd still like all the other issues addressed, What was my donor density as recorded by Dr. Bloxham? What happened to all of the grafts that were extracted but not implanted? And who was the other doctor that operated on me against my informed consent? 

 

Edited March 11 by bluebird00

[Chair]

1 hour ago, bluebird00 said:

You are asking me to consult with another surgeon, one who would publicly disagree with Dr. Bloxham. This would involve costs (consultation fees) and time, and finding a surgeon willing to publicly criticize and/or disagree with a colleague is highly unlikely. So, what’s the point?

Why can’t Dr. Bloxham help me understand what happened? I want him to publicly address all the concerns raised in my initial post. He is more than capable of doing this, yet he has avoided doing so. Please refer to my recent edit, which includes donor density photos suggesting that even more grafts are missing.

I'd still like all the other issues addressed, such as who was the other doctor who operated on me without my consent? What was my donor density as recorded by Dr. Bloxham? What happened to all of the grafts that were extracted but not implanted?

I should get a free scar revision from this place so I feel your pain

[Cyzkm]

On 3/8/2024 at 11:10 PM, Chair said:

I’d also feel violated by that clinic. I’m not sure why they are so recommended. I’ve been hearing bad stories lately. 

It seems like they were highly recommended a year or two ago but recently there have been more bad stories than previously. 

[Chair]

12 minutes ago, Cyzkm said:

It seems like they were highly recommended a year or two ago but recently there have been more bad stories than previously. 

Maybe that’s why they are going aggressively after people who leave bad reviews. 

[Cyzkm]

7 minutes ago, Chair said:

Maybe that’s why they are going aggressively after people who leave bad reviews. 

I don’t follow? 

[Melvin- Admin]

21 hours ago, bluebird00 said:

You are asking me to consult with another surgeon, one who would publicly disagree with Dr. Bloxham. This would involve costs (consultation fees) and time, and finding a surgeon willing to publicly criticize and/or disagree with a colleague is highly unlikely. So, what’s the point?

If you want a professional opinion and answer, that’s exactly what you need to do. Yes, it might cost some money, but it’s small price in the grand scheme. Your goal is not to find a doctor who will agree with you. The goal is to find a doctor who will tell you the truth, whether that is them agreeing with Dr. Bloxham or disagreeing no one knows. 

[Al - Moderator]

 

I'm not on any side of this. I wasn't there, so I don't know any of the details. However I want to respond to a few things because I think a lot of what you are complaining about makes it seem like you are trying to find something to complain about or perhaps you just didn't understand what was going on at the time.

 

On 3/6/2024 at 3:36 PM, bluebird00 said:

The report mentions a high incidence of popping, which doesn't align with my observations. One of the technicians mentioned a graft popping out, but that was it. The images I shared here show all grafts secured. Do grafts pop out randomly, and could this go unnoticed?

You are not going to see it because it's happening while the techs are placing the grafts. What happens is when they push a graft in the pressure from widening the incision hole to implant the graft pops a graft next to it back out and they need to push that graft back in. Then reimplanting that graft pops another one out, and so on. It gets frustrating and time consuming to finally get them all in. Once they are all in they may apply a little bit of pressure all over your had to make sure thy are in tight. After a short time the blood around the grafts will start getting thicker and sticky and will hold them in place, so by the time you leave you will not be able to see anything that they were talking about. An 11 hour surgery seems to indicate they were taking a long time to get everything done and that could be part of it.

 

On 3/6/2024 at 3:36 PM, bluebird00 said:

The operation lasted 11 hours. Is this duration normal for a 1700 or 2700 FUT procedure?

 

That would be extremely long for 1700 grafts. It's even long for 2700 grafts which makes me lean towards the 2700 graft number. Again, I wasn't there, but to me the length of time indicates a much larger session than 1700.

 

On 3/6/2024 at 3:36 PM, bluebird00 said:

Additionally, I noticed the operating room had a window AC unit, which seems unusual for an operating room, and it was not turned on. Dr. Bloxham stated it was cold enough in the room, but this detail strikes me as odd.

This is one where I think you are just mentioning something to try to find a complaint. The operating room needs to be able to be cool, but this is mainly going to be an issue in the Summer probably. It could be that the simplest way to keep that room cooler is to have an extra air conditioner. That doesn't seem odd to me. The fact that they didn't need to use it... well it was November in NY, maybe they didn't need to use it.

 

On 3/6/2024 at 3:36 PM, bluebird00 said:

I also remember that my extracted follicles were stored in small paper and wax cups containing a whitish liquid. Although I didn't experience any infections, I'm questioning whether this storage method is normal. If it's not, could this have contributed to any graft loss?

Here's another example where I think you are just trying to find a complaint. Do you really think they said "Oh today we are working on bluebird, let's not do our usual graft holding procedures and just use a paper cup and not care." I mean really. They've been doing successful HTs for years. There are several different types of holding solution. Whatever one they've been using must be working for them. If you never had a HT before why would you think the color or cup they put the grafts in is odd if you have noting to compare to?

 

As far as another Dr working on you, you didn't say what parts or how much he did. If it was a Tech and he didn't say he was a Dr would you feel the same? I guess that depends on what parts he was doing, but without that info I can't know if it was OK or not for him to be doing it rather than Dr Bloxham. He could have been doing Tech work. But even besides that, if it was an 11 hour surgery, maybe it's not a bad idea to get another Dr to help out a bit if he's free. When I was at True & Dorin before Dr True retired he would occasionally come in and see what was going on if he was finished with his patient or if he was only doing consultations that day and was done and we were still going. I never saw an issue with that. In fact I liked that another Dr was having a look.

 

 

[bluebird00]

1 hour ago, Al - Moderator said:

 

I'm not on any side of this. I wasn't there, so I don't know any of the details. However I want to respond to a few things because I think a lot of what you are complaining about makes it seem like you are trying to find something to complain about or perhaps you just didn't understand what was going on at the time.

 

You are not going to see it because it's happening while the techs are placing the grafts. What happens is when they push a graft in the pressure from widening the incision hole to implant the graft pops a graft next to it back out and they need to push that graft back in. Then reimplanting that graft pops another one out, and so on. It gets frustrating and time consuming to finally get them all in. Once they are all in they may apply a little bit of pressure all over your had to make sure thy are in tight. After a short time the blood around the grafts will start getting thicker and sticky and will hold them in place, so by the time you leave you will not be able to see anything that they were talking about. An 11 hour surgery seems to indicate they were taking a long time to get everything done and that could be part of it.

 

 

That would be extremely long for 1700 grafts. It's even long for 2700 grafts which makes me lean towards the 2700 graft number. Again, I wasn't there, but to me the length of time indicates a much larger session than 1700.

 

This is one where I think you are just mentioning something to try to find a complaint. The operating room needs to be able to be cool, but this is mainly going to be an issue in the Summer probably. It could be that the simplest way to keep that room cooler is to have an extra air conditioner. That doesn't seem odd to me. The fact that they didn't need to use it... well it was November in NY, maybe they didn't need to use it.

 

Here's another example where I think you are just trying to find a complaint. Do you really think they said "Oh today we are working on bluebird, let's not do our usual graft holding procedures and just use a paper cup and not care." I mean really. They've been doing successful HTs for years. There are several different types of holding solution. Whatever one they've been using must be working for them. If you never had a HT before why would you think the color or cup they put the grafts in is odd if you have noting to compare to?

 

As far as another Dr working on you, you didn't say what parts or how much he did. If it was a Tech and he didn't say he was a Dr would you feel the same? I guess that depends on what parts he was doing, but without that info I can't know if it was OK or not for him to be doing it rather than Dr Bloxham. He could have been doing Tech work. But even besides that, if it was an 11 hour surgery, maybe it's not a bad idea to get another Dr to help out a bit if he's free. When I was at True & Dorin before Dr True retired he would occasionally come in and see what was going on if he was finished with his patient or if he was only doing consultations that day and was done and we were still going. I never saw an issue with that. In fact I liked that another Dr was having a look.

 

 

I feel like there's a disconnect in how my words are being interpreted. These are all legitimate concerns of mine. I'm trying to piece together everything to help understand what happened to the grafts that were extracted but never implanted. Reading your reply, which suggests that I am 'just looking for something to complain about,' was genuinely disheartening, especially coming from you. I know you mean well, so how can we work together to bridge this disconnect?

[bluebird00]

15 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

If you want a professional opinion and answer, that’s exactly what you need to do. Yes, it might cost some money, but it’s small price in the grand scheme. Your goal is not to find a doctor who will agree with you. The goal is to find a doctor who will tell you the truth, whether that is them agreeing with Dr. Bloxham or disagreeing no one knows. 

I'm not sure why you keep suggesting I see another doctor, especially since we already have one who knows my case better than anyone else. What information could another doctor provide that Dr. Bloxham can’t? Have you had any contact with him by the way? Are we expecting a response?

Just to make sure we are all on the same page, have you had a chance to see the images of my grafts? No problem at all if you haven’t. According to the report, 59 squares, the same size as shown in the attached image, were removed from the back of my head, each containing 85 grafts, totaling 5015 grafts extracted. However, the report indicates that only 2700 grafts were implanted. So, where are the rest of the grafts? Here is a link to a similar case with an operating room report: 

Scroll down to see the operating room report and the extraction size. 27.7 x 2.1 = The total area is 58.17 square centimeters. In that case, 5000 grafts were extracted, and all were implanted. My extraction area was 59 square centimeters. Why were 5000 grafts extracted from me but only 2700 (or 1700) implanted?

 

 

Edited March 12 by bluebird00

[BackFromTheBrink]

This case is troubling. 
 

There are multiple concerns here, raised by the OP. However, there are 2 that seem to be the most important, and that the surgeon appears to be in a position to help address.

1) the surgeon has already stated that 2700 grafts were extracted in an earlier post. I believe the OP wants to know how many incisions were made to accommodate those grafts, and confirmation that all 2700 were implanted.

2) The OP believes another doctor was involved in his procedure. The surgeon could help clarify how many people were in the room and what part they played in the surgery to set his mind at rest.

moderators: Do you not see it that way? Do you agree the surgeon should help to answer the questions since it’s what is troubling their patient?

[JoeD]

1 hour ago, BackFromTheBrink said:

This case is troubling. 
 

There are multiple concerns here, raised by the OP. However, there are 2 that seem to be the most important, and that the surgeon appears to be in a position to help address.

1) the surgeon has already stated that 2700 grafts were extracted in an earlier post. I believe the OP wants to know how many incisions were made to accommodate those grafts, and confirmation that all 2700 were implanted.

2) The OP believes another doctor was involved in his procedure. The surgeon could help clarify how many people were in the room and what part they played in the surgery to set his mind at rest.

moderators: Do you not see it that way? Do you agree the surgeon should help to answer the questions since it’s what is troubling their patient?

I think that is entirely reasonable to receive a public explanation about the involvement of another doctor. I’d bet it was in the signed written consent, but still, it would bother me too if it wasn’t verbally explained and asked about to patient.  Similar concerns were raised on this very forum just under a decade ago, when Dr. Bloxham started with Dr. Feller. Even as a satisfied patient of his… this aspect would bother me.
 
 

The air conditioner, the storage cups, tech #….. I have had two procedures there, and seen that myself, as well as same in some of their older videos. That amount of techs dissecting and sorting the grafts is also typical in their office and explained on their website.  There are at least that many microscopes in the graft prep room. I’m not sure I understand why these aspects would be concerning. 
 

The duration of the procedure I think is explained by the operative report. The need to go back to extend the strip on both ends, the repeated popping and vasovagal/ syncope. Those would add some hours. 
 

The new assertion of 5000 grafts… Come on man. That’s an extremely high and uncimmon amount. I also couldn’t fathom you’d get any other answer but 2700 from the doctor, given that it was written on the operative report, and his earlier reply. I do not have the knowledge re how to reconcile what you see in a 1 cm segment on your head versus what is obtained from typical strip, but they have to be other factors that play, as most strips I see are 2 to 4000, not 5000+, even when they are ear to ear. The writing on the operative report also says “ extraction density lower than ***” I can’t make out that last three letter word or abbreviation. 

 

Edited March 12 by JoeD

[Melvin- Admin]

4 hours ago, BackFromTheBrink said:

This case is troubling. 
 

There are multiple concerns here, raised by the OP. However, there are 2 that seem to be the most important, and that the surgeon appears to be in a position to help address.

1) the surgeon has already stated that 2700 grafts were extracted in an earlier post. I believe the OP wants to know how many incisions were made to accommodate those grafts, and confirmation that all 2700 were implanted.

2) The OP believes another doctor was involved in his procedure. The surgeon could help clarify how many people were in the room and what part they played in the surgery to set his mind at rest.

moderators: Do you not see it that way? Do you agree the surgeon should help to answer the questions since it’s what is troubling their patient?

I agree. It would be better if he addressed these concerns. Looks like he sent some official document addressing these concerns. My issue is with OP using what anonymous users say on a forum as official expert advice. I may be an admin, but im not a doctor, I do not provide expert medical advice, nor does anyone else here. If he’s not receiving a response from his doctor, logically the next step is to consult with another doctor. 

[Al - Moderator]

9 hours ago, bluebird00 said:

I feel like there's a disconnect in how my words are being interpreted. These are all legitimate concerns of mine. I'm trying to piece together everything to help understand what happened to the grafts that were extracted but never implanted. Reading your reply, which suggests that I am 'just looking for something to complain about,' was genuinely disheartening, especially coming from you. I know you mean well, so how can we work together to bridge this disconnect?

 

I'm not trying to depress you or make you feel bad. I think sometimes I come across that way if I start trying to explain things too much. I am certainly not a big fan of the hair transplant industry as a whole. However, long ago I realized that the best way to get rid of the butchers is to point out the better Drs and try to get people to realize that a successful HT is not as simple as just getting more hair on your head. It matters where you go. That's why I've been in this forum for so long and it's why I became a moderator even though I was butchered very badly years ago.

These days I always try to look at both sides. I said in an earlier post that there seems to be a possible discrepancy in the graft count. Whether there actually is or not I don't know as I am only an outside person who has no actual details of what went on. So with that said, looking at it if I was a Dr doing 200+ procedures per year and a patient had a complaint about the cost and graft numbers, but added in that he didn't like the air conditioner or that the graft holding solution looks white, etc, etc, it would sound to me like you are just making complaints trying to get a refund. The actual graft number and cost part of the complaint gets buried in with the other stuff and it appears to not be a true complaint.

That doesn't mean I think your main concerns are not valid. If you were simply doing a review and mentioned things about the air and graft holding then that's fine. It's all part of the review and we can think maybe that air conditioner setup is a bit tacky. But it you are making what you think are valid complaints to the Dr about the actual procedure, leave those opinion parts out.

 

So your main issues are:

1. What was the actual number of grafts and were you overcharged. What you need is a breakdown of the grafts. They should be able to show how many singles, doubles, triples, etc. That's what you should be asking for.

2. Did the grafts grow well. You mentioned some thin areas, but to me it looks like it grew pretty good. I realize it's not as full as you'd like, but that's common and most people go back for a 2nd procedure to add density. The one side that you point out is thin looks like it's just a combing/parting issue and not really thinner, at least to me.

3. Who was the other Dr involved. This may or may not matter (although they should be able to tell you) because it depends on what he did and how much he did. You didn't really give us much info on that unless I missed some parts. So I can't say if it's an issue.

 

 

 

[jjalay]

From the pictures OP has posted even a member in this forum with some experience can clearly see that this is nowhere near to 2700 grafts. But getting a second opinion from an independent doctor to confirm this would be the right thing to do. This wont help much because simply in this case the surgeon will disagree with every other doctor with a different opinion. The best thing would be for the doctor to answer all the questions OP has publicly on this forum about the graft count and the exactly number of grafts that were used.

Hairtransplant industry is shady, cheating on graft count occurs more oft that people think.

[bluebird00]

18 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

I agree. It would be better if he addressed these concerns. Looks like he sent some official document addressing these concerns. My issue is with OP using what anonymous users say on a forum as official expert advice. I may be an admin, but im not a doctor, I do not provide expert medical advice, nor does anyone else here. If he’s not receiving a response from his doctor, logically the next step is to consult with another doctor. 

The total area of the 3 strips harvested is between 56 cm² and 61.8 cm². This is derived from the surgery report and transcribed as follows:

 

 

1st strip: 29 cm * (1.6-1.8 cm) = 46.4 cm² - 52.2 cm²
2nd strip: 3 cm * 1.6 cm = 4.8 cm²
3rd strip: 3 cm * 1.6 cm = 4.8 cm²

I have shaved my donor area just below my FUT scar as shown in this picture, which allows me to perform an accurate count of 85 follicular units in a 1 cm x 1 cm square.

I used GIMP, a professional-level photo editor, to perform this count. As I do not have any patchiness in my donor area, we can safely conclude that my donor density is on average 85 FU/cm² throughout.

Using simple math, the number of follicular units that were harvested can be easily determined. If there are 85 follicular units per square centimeter, and the total area of the 3 strips harvested is between 56 cm² and 61.8 cm², then the math works out as below: 56 cm² * 85 FU/cm² = 4760 follicular units on the low end, and 61.8 cm² * 85 FU/cm² = 5253 follicular units on the high end.

Please let me know if that does not make sense to you. None of the information above is derived from anonymous forum users; it is derived from the surgery report and meticulously counted from the photographic evidence I captured of my donor area using GIMP.

 

Edited March 13 by bluebird00

[FormerFutureKrillin]

6 hours ago, bluebird00 said:

As I do not have any patchiness in my donor area, we can safely conclude that my donor density is on average 85 FU/cm² throughout.

 

@bluebird00 the above is where you are off course mathematically. This is by no means a safe assumption as your methodology is not correct. No one has a completely homogenous donor, and you cannot extrapolate your average donor density from a single square centimeter measurement in the thickest part of your donor. It is extremely common for density to drop or vary around the occipital areas (above the ears) without any “visible patchiness”.

As an anecdotal example, my donor density is ~30 FU/sq cm lower in certain areas of my donor than it is in the same area in my head that you measured! That is a crazy difference and I have no visible patchiness. It is only detectible by detailed measurements of my donor area at many points. A density difference throughout your donor could either explain or refute the stated graft count. There are plenty of doctors who can give a professional assessment of your donor density at different points.

If you insist on taking the measurements yourself, at the very least you need to measure more than just 1 square cm and in more positions to arrive at a “safe” assumption of your average donor density. It will be very hard to do yourself and the more measurements taken the better, as the reality is your donor density likely gradually changes throughout different positions.

You absolutely have legitimate questions and concerns that should be answered by the doctor, and in my personal opinion the official response here was not sufficient at all to address your legitimate concerns. There is indeed basic information still missing (e.g., what was your graft breakdown in 1s, 2s, 3s etc). But you are losing legitimacy by claiming strongly that you had over 5,000 grafts extracted based on the faulty assumption above.

And just to nip this in the bud, literally no part of me wants to be defending this doctor (just check my post history…), but the point above stands.

Edited March 13 by FormerFutureKrillin
spelling

[JoeD]

On 3/11/2024 at 12:25 PM, Cyzkm said:

It seems like they were highly recommended a year or two ago but recently there have been more bad stories than previously. 

Agreed, it’s quite perplexing. 

[Cyzkm]

Maybe this doesn’t help but I think your actual result does look a lot better than when you started.

[bluebird00]

15 hours ago, Al - Moderator said:

 

I'm not trying to depress you or make you feel bad. I think sometimes I come across that way if I start trying to explain things too much. I am certainly not a big fan of the hair transplant industry as a whole. However, long ago I realized that the best way to get rid of the butchers is to point out the better Drs and try to get people to realize that a successful HT is not as simple as just getting more hair on your head. It matters where you go. That's why I've been in this forum for so long and it's why I became a moderator even though I was butchered very badly years ago.

These days I always try to look at both sides. I said in an earlier post that there seems to be a possible discrepancy in the graft count. Whether there actually is or not I don't know as I am only an outside person who has no actual details of what went on. So with that said, looking at it if I was a Dr doing 200+ procedures per year and a patient had a complaint about the cost and graft numbers, but added in that he didn't like the air conditioner or that the graft holding solution looks white, etc, etc, it would sound to me like you are just making complaints trying to get a refund. The actual graft number and cost part of the complaint gets buried in with the other stuff and it appears to not be a true complaint.

That doesn't mean I think your main concerns are not valid. If you were simply doing a review and mentioned things about the air and graft holding then that's fine. It's all part of the review and we can think maybe that air conditioner setup is a bit tacky. But it you are making what you think are valid complaints to the Dr about the actual procedure, leave those opinion parts out.

 

So your main issues are:

1. What was the actual number of grafts and were you overcharged. What you need is a breakdown of the grafts. They should be able to show how many singles, doubles, triples, etc. That's what you should be asking for.

2. Did the grafts grow well. You mentioned some thin areas, but to me it looks like it grew pretty good. I realize it's not as full as you'd like, but that's common and most people go back for a 2nd procedure to add density. The one side that you point out is thin looks like it's just a combing/parting issue and not really thinner, at least to me.

3. Who was the other Dr involved. This may or may not matter (although they should be able to tell you) because it depends on what he did and how much he did. You didn't really give us much info on that unless I missed some parts. So I can't say if it's an issue.

 

 

 

I appreciate you addressing my concerns, but I'm still perplexed as to why you questioned my intent. It seemed crude and unnecessary, and I am bewildered by what prompted you to say that. I understand you tried to explain, but it came across as a gut reaction.

Perhaps the way it was expressed was poorly worded? If someone as knowledgeable and helpful as you interpreted it that way, it's likely others did too. I appreciate your effort to explain this to me, even if it was a bit clumsy. Is there a way I could phrase my request for feedback to avoid appearing 'tacky' or as if I'm seeking a refund? I know you mean well, given the time and thought you put into your response. I would like to bridge the gap so we can discuss the facts of the case without hostile remarks about my intent. How can we work together on this?

[bluebird00]

9 hours ago, FormerFutureKrillin said:

@bluebird00 the above is where you are off course mathematically. This is by no means a safe assumption as your methodology is not correct. No one has a completely homogenous donor, and you cannot extrapolate your average donor density from a single square centimeter measurement in the thickest part of your donor. It is extremely common for density to drop or vary around the occipital areas (above the ears) without any “visible patchiness”.

As an anecdotal example, my donor density is ~30 FU/sq cm lower in certain areas of my donor than it is in the same area in my head that you measured! That is a crazy difference and I have no visible patchiness. It is only detectible by detailed measurements of my donor area at many points. A density difference throughout your donor could either explain or refute the stated graft count. There are plenty of doctors who can give a professional assessment of your donor density at different points.

If you insist on taking the measurements yourself, at the very least you need to measure more than just 1 square cm and in more positions to arrive at a “safe” assumption of your average donor density. It will be very hard to do yourself and the more measurements taken the better, as the reality is your donor density likely gradually changes throughout different positions.

You absolutely have legitimate questions and concerns that should be answered by the doctor, and in my personal opinion the official response here was not sufficient at all to address your legitimate concerns. There is indeed basic information still missing (e.g., what was your graft breakdown in 1s, 2s, 3s etc). But you are losing legitimacy by claiming strongly that you had over 5,000 grafts extracted based on the faulty assumption above.

And just to nip this in the bud, literally no part of me wants to be defending this doctor (just check my post history…), but the point above stands.

The first strip was harvested from the occipital region and that density measured at 85FU/CM2. The low end area of that strip is 46.4 CM2 (46.4 CM2 * 85FU = 3944FU). 

This will likely result in me sporting a Rihanna haircut for a while (if I'm lucky). I'll take measurements from my parietal regions and post them here.

Edited March 13 by bluebird00