Advice for someone who needs good quality at a good price

[nburns1404]

Hi all, I just signed up on these forums tonight. I have been recreationally searching for information until this last week when I decided it was time to take action.

 

I am 23 and have a significant receding hairline with the "island" effect and a unmistakable bald spot on my crown. Looking at the standardized chart, I'd say I'm around a level 4.

 

I have information from Bosley (though pricing is very vague), and have searched locally and nationally. I see that Atlantis in Ft. Lauderdale is by far the cheapest large clinic, but that prompted me to check these forums as I got the feeling that it may not produce great results.

 

I've seen SMG thrown around on this forum in a respectable light. They are only about a 3 hr drive, and I'm considering a consult at SMG. Is this my best "bang for buck" option? Are there some other clinics that will do equal or better work for cheaper?

 

Any help is much appreciated.

[Severn]

Well, I consulted with just about every Coalition doctor on this site and I decided on SMG. I'm sure the most of the other docs I talked to could do a great job, but I felt SMG was my best bet to get the result I was after.

 

Oh, and FWIW, I am going to SMG to repair the mess that Bosely did to me about 14 years ago. I wouldn't have a HT done at Bosley if they did it for free and threw in an extra $50,000. Seriously.

[the B spot]

Hi Nburns, at 23 and already a NW4 you should come into the office for an in-person evaluation.

 

We should find out if a HT at this stage is proper...If not, you will gain valuable information and ways to combat your hairloss non-surgically. If you call the office, ask for Matt Zupan to set up an appointment.

 

Take Care,

Jason

[aaron1234]

Only a three hour drive to SMG? Take advantage of that. A handful of posters on this site have flown over the ocean for that clinic.

[Severn]

Originally posted by aaron1234:

Only a three hour drive to SMG? Take advantage of that. A handful of posters on this site have flown over the ocean for that clinic.

 

yea, I'm flying from the deep south. I would definitely make the drive if I were that close.

[hairthere]

PLEASE avoid the hairmills (bosley, atlantis, mhr, hairclub, etc) and GO to SMG. if you're not sure why just spend more time on these forums.

[Sparky]

At least with SMG you know that you will get a great result, stay away from the big HT companys, they are only interested in money and will mess your head up bad.

[kaounis]

Hey, nburns,the best advice so far is from the B spot. I always try to discourage young guys from getting HT, it's not something that is for everyone. Especially at 23! Go see Dr. S, he is very ethical and will tell what you "should" do not what you "can" do. For the younger guys who have had HT's, don't start responding how it was the best thing you've ever done, and how you don't regret it etc...etc..This is my opinion and I stand by it...

 

Just a thought from the peanut gallery...

[BigBill1234]

I had a HT 2 weeks before my 23rd birthday. Yes, I have more hair and that is great and all, but I still worry everyday about the future... Get on Propecia and see how it works for you.

[jaun1988]

im 19 im im going for hairtransplant becouse to be honest why wait 10 15 years when i can get best result know and enjoy life more

[Sparky]

"For the younger guys who have had HT's, don't start responding how it was the best thing you've ever done, and how you don't regret it etc...etc..This is my opinion and I stand by it..."

 

 

you cant just tell other users that dont agree with your opinion not to respond!

 

If hes a NW4 at 23 then an HT might not be out of the question.

 

I was 22 when I got my first HT, but I do regret it. Doesnt mean that its gonna be wrong for him, I was a NW1.5 when an unethical Dr took my money for about 125 grafts or less. I'm hardley a NW2 now and I'm near 34.

[lost my swagger]

bspot---- how many 20 somethings do you guys turn away?? or better yet do you have any ACCURATE numbers on what % of your patients are in their 20s?

 

we have seen you guys do hairline FUEs on NW2s, and now its apparent you are giving it a shot on diffuse thinners also....

 

b spot-your post was the 1st in this thread to be useful, IMO. other than that its mostly filled with replies from guys(knowingly, or unknowingly) steering the OP directly into SMGs lap, IMO...

 

i know what a good rep you are and the sound advice i see you give, and its your words that make me "like" you...but how are we to truly know that when it comes to 20 somethings SMG truly is as ethical as all these posters say?? alot of them have no first hand knowledge of SMG....

 

are there any young posters on this forum that have actually been turned away from SMG because they felt you were not a suitable candidate?..

[lost my swagger]

bspot--actually to be more specific with my question, what % of SMGs patients are 26 or younger, and could you give some basic criteria as to why SMG feels these patients are suitable for a hair transplant.. thanks

[hairthere]

lms, all i did was try and steer this guy away from the "bad guys" and towards a clinic we know does good work. you're right, i do not know from firsthand experience of dr. s' ethics. the patient said he is 23 with advanced balding though, and is a nw4. perhaps it's not as bad as he thinks; tough to tell without seeing pics. but just because he's 23 does not mean he isn't a candidate for ht surgery.

 

nburns, if you want more accurate advice from us, please post pics. and again, please avoid the hairmills, because if you are not a candidate they are more likely to take advantage of you.

[Severn]

Originally posted by lost my swagger:

bspot---- other than that its mostly filled with replies from guys(knowingly, or unknowingly) steering the OP directly into SMGs lap, IMO...

 

He mentioned Bosely, Atlantis, and SMG in his original post. Out of those three choices I will stand by my recomendation of SMG. If he is willing to consider any of the coaltition docs, I would probably tell him to try SMG, H&W, Feller, Rahal, Alexandar, etc. And not necessarily in that order.

 

I was personally willing to go anywhere in the US and Canada. I chose SMG. Will that end up being the best choice? I don't know. I'll find out next month.

[M&M]

My turn to chime in!

 

nburns1404,

 

First of all, congratulations for doing the right thing and starting your research by asking some good questions on a very tough decision - whether to get a HT or not.

 

I agree with everyone else here that says "stay away from Bosley". I know from first-hand experience that they do *not* have your best interest at heart and are simply there to make some money by cramming some grafts into you and hoping you'll get 'hooked' and come back for more.

 

On the other hand, having been a patient of Dr. Ron Shapiro, I can assure you that he does indeed have your best interests in mind. He will discuss honestly your situation, outline the risks, and provide you some options that you can then ponder over (ie. no HT, try shaving and see if you like it, do FUE so you have no scar, or go for a larger strip session to maximize coverage, etc.).

 

If you know you can walk away from Bosley, you can visit them and you'll see just how different their approaches are. But Bosley will try to hustle you into surgery the same day they 'consult' with you.

 

If you are just a 3-hour drive away, you certainly have nothing to lose and a lot of insight to gain by visiting SMG. I'm not saying you have to limit yourself to just one clinic, but this is certainly a great spot to obtain an honest and fair assessment.

 

M&M

[Bill - Seemiller]

nburns1404,

 

I'm glad to see that you've found our community and are researching your options prior to making any decisions.

 

Like a few others have expressed, I am very reluctant to recommend hair transplantation for you since you're already a class 4 on the Norwood scale and only 23 years old. In a nutshell, you are in a high risk group.

 

The probability that you will lose more hair without medical intervention is quite high. Are you taking Propecia and/or Rogaine? Why or why not? If you have any hope of preventing the progression of loss, consider getting on these two non-surgical treatments

 

I do agree that an in-person consult with a reputable hair restoration physician would be optimal for you. But the consultation should focus on understanding your hair loss and working out a long term hair restoration plan.

 

Quite frankly, I'd suggest that you're not an optimal candidate for a hair transplant at this time. What happens in a couple years after your hair transplant and you've quite possibly become a Norwood 5A? What happens if you progress to a Norwood level 7 by the time you're 30? It often takes more than one procedure to meet a patient's current goals let alone goals of the patient in the event of future hair loss. Then there's what can be realistically accomplished on higher classes of hair loss. If you do progress to a Norwood 7, can you live with a thinner appearance of hair in the front with a bald crown?

 

In my opinion, get on Propecia and Rogaine for a couple years to see if this helps stablize your hair loss. Re-evaluate your position in a couple years and save your money. Hair restoration is not just a process that takes time, but a financial investment.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[nburns1404]

Okay since everyone seems to agree that SMG is the best quality, what could I expect to pay? I know it's hard to say without pictures, but anyone who was around a 3-4 at the time of the procedure may be able to tell me. I've also heard he gives a travel credit, and prices of $4-6 per graft. Is this all accurate? Those who financed: was it through the clinic or third party? I am concerned with quality first and foremost but keep in mind I am a student so total price is of a great concern to me.

[Ronald]

SMG produces AMAZING results on a consistent basis and DR. PAUL is by far my favorate poster on these forums because he provides very detailed, clear and information with his replys.

 

You are very lucky to live so close to them!

 

They charge $6 per FUE graft.

[the B spot]

Nburns, I wouldn't worry about the cost right now...we would like to have you in for a no pressure, no hassle chat...at the end of the day, your going to have to meet some criteria before going forward.

 

LMS--this is a long write =)

 

I don't have a percentage...to be honest, I think over the years our reputation is that we really prefer not to transplant under 25, with some exceptions. I would say that patients 26 and under makeup a very, very low percentage of our patient base. When we explain our approach and how we would proceed, they often choose another clinic who will give them what they want. I would say most of our patients are 28-50 years old.

 

I would say I personally turn younger patients away on a regular basis, choosing to counsel with them and give them advice on how to deal. Dr. Ron/Matt is most concerned with future loss and the younger the patient, the more future loss comes into play.

 

We do perform quite a few repairs on patients in their mid-20's who had transplants at a young age---some of whom require us removing the transplanted hairline via strip to move the hairline "up" to make them look normal. I do not consider them part of this discussion as we are repairing them, and #1 would not have performed surgery on them #2 would have approached the surgery differently.

 

However, with the onset of FUE this line is wavering somewhat...I believe that people are individual, so when a person 23-25 comes to me and says, "I want to do this" but is mature, accepts advice, handles this in a mature fashion, and in general approaches the process properly...this is a person who understands the short and long term ramifications. I can feel comfortable forwarding his request to Dr. Ron/Matt.

 

Another person this same age comes to me with a completely different attitude, generally with information from another clinic that will do 1000 or 2000 more grafts and really presses me on doing more grafts, gets argumentative, or has to get this done right away....those I try to slow down enough to get a feel for them, but most of these guys are poor candidates, and I turn them away.

 

I really feel strongly about waiting and monitoring. If a person is unwilling to accept that, then we look at age, level of loss, type of hair characteristics, family history and miniaturization through the donor. Then I look at the patients "whole picture" --just how aggressive the approach is, how much a person has wrapped up into a HT--If someone has the notion that a HT is answer to everything it is a red flag.

 

Another point I want to raise is that when patients contact me, I go through everything with them, from approach to cost, but Dr. Ron and Matt still retain the final say..so when I send photos & information to them, they can say no as well...it is a nice 2 level process that provides checks and balances and helps prevent improper candidates from slipping through the cracks.

 

I think using FUE allows us to transplant younger patients, but we still have to approach it in a conservative fashion. If Nburns comes in and sits down with Matt, he is a NW4 and he wants to attack the frontal zone aggressively via strip/FUE, he will be turned away. If he says, I want to maintain a buzz-cut, retain the ability to keep his hair short, wants to establish a frontal forelock/hairline that frames his face and we can do this using 2000-2500 grafts via FUE/Strip..then that is a judgment call, which is difficult but certainly can be made if future planning/proper approach is used.

 

However, the reason for not transplanting young patients is the long-term ramifications. In the scenario I presented, the ability to buzz down to a #2 and still maintain that shadow hairline look is certainly an excellent option. Doing strip takes additional thought and planning.

 

We do not shy from transplanting younger patients, but we refuse to bend to patient pressure to transplant high densities, or aggressively lower hairlines...so in that vein we turn away a high percentage of younger patients just because they want what we cannot give. We do give education and philosophy for our approach.

 

This is a sensitive issue for me as well as many others who are victims of poor planning/unethical clinics/bad work who see this in the mirror everyday.

 

Take Care,

Jason

[hairthere]

nburns, the bottom line is, make sure you have realistic expectations and FULLY understand the ramifications of getting an HT at a young age. it may seem like a magic bullet, but often having one can lead to an even worse place than where you started.

[lost my swagger]

Originally posted by the B spot:

 

 

LMS--this is a long write =)

 

I don't have a percentage...to be honest, I think over the years our reputation is that we really prefer not to transplant under 25, with some exceptions. I would say that patients 26 and under makeup a very, very low percentage of our patient base. When we explain our approach and how we would proceed, they often choose another clinic who will give them what they want. I would say most of our patients are 28-50 years old.

 

I would say I personally turn younger patients away on a regular basis, choosing to counsel with them and give them advice on how to deal. Dr. Ron/Matt is most concerned with future loss and the younger the patient, the more future loss comes into play.

 

We do perform quite a few repairs on patients in their mid-20's who had transplants at a young age---some of whom require us removing the transplanted hairline via strip to move the hairline "up" to make them look normal. I do not consider them part of this discussion as we are repairing them, and #1 would not have performed surgery on them #2 would have approached the surgery differently.

 

However, with the onset of FUE this line is wavering somewhat...I believe that people are individual, so when a person 23-25 comes to me and says, "I want to do this" but is mature, accepts advice, handles this in a mature fashion, and in general approaches the process properly...this is a person who understands the short and long term ramifications. I can feel comfortable forwarding his request to Dr. Ron/Matt.

 

Another person this same age comes to me with a completely different attitude, generally with information from another clinic that will do 1000 or 2000 more grafts and really presses me on doing more grafts, gets argumentative, or has to get this done right away....those I try to slow down enough to get a feel for them, but most of these guys are poor candidates, and I turn them away.

 

I really feel strongly about waiting and monitoring. If a person is unwilling to accept that, then we look at age, level of loss, type of hair characteristics, family history and miniaturization through the donor. Then I look at the patients "whole picture" --just how aggressive the approach is, how much a person has wrapped up into a HT--If someone has the notion that a HT is answer to everything it is a red flag.

 

Another point I want to raise is that when patients contact me, I go through everything with them, from approach to cost, but Dr. Ron and Matt still retain the final say..so when I send photos & information to them, they can say no as well...it is a nice 2 level process that provides checks and balances and helps prevent improper candidates from slipping through the cracks.

 

I think using FUE allows us to transplant younger patients, but we still have to approach it in a conservative fashion. If Nburns comes in and sits down with Matt, he is a NW4 and he wants to attack the frontal zone aggressively via strip/FUE, he will be turned away. If he says, I want to maintain a buzz-cut, retain the ability to keep his hair short, wants to establish a frontal forelock/hairline that frames his face and we can do this using 2000-2500 grafts via FUE/Strip..then that is a judgment call, which is difficult but certainly can be made if future planning/proper approach is used.

 

However, the reason for not transplanting young patients is the long-term ramifications. In the scenario I presented, the ability to buzz down to a #2 and still maintain that shadow hairline look is certainly an excellent option. Doing strip takes additional thought and planning.

 

We do not shy from transplanting younger patients, but we refuse to bend to patient pressure to transplant high densities, or aggressively lower hairlines...so in that vein we turn away a high percentage of younger patients just because they want what we cannot give. We do give education and philosophy for our approach.

 

This is a sensitive issue for me as well as many others who are victims of poor planning/unethical clinics/bad work who see this in the mirror everyday.

 

Take Care,

Jason

 

Bspot-- i appreciate the response...

 

i also agree that repair guys(like aaron1234) should not be included in my question. they are a completely different catagory.. BTW im looking foward to seeing what you guys can do with aaron1234 because his situation so closely mirrors my own.....

 

i understand what you are saying about FUE wavering the line, but let me use this guy as an example

 

 

http://hair-restoration-info.c...=491108824#491108824

 

his level of loss(at this point) is very minimal IMO, and his native is thick... but lets assume in ten years he begins to show signs of SERIOUS loss...what im implying is NOT a far stretch and very well could happen... do you agree??? yes or no.... the lower hairline he has now has cut his options drastically IMO as well as ensuring that, should his hairloss progress he will infact have ZERO choice but to have many future procedures as his created hairline OBV will not be a natural look without the native hair behind it... is this patient aware that in this senario STRIP will be the best option for him? or do you feel you can "keep up with his progression via FUE only?

 

 

also quickly lets take a look at PharmD's recent procedure

 

 

http://hair-restoration-info.c...21087683/m/934106824

 

all one must do is look at the 2 topdown preop pics to see he will indeed have progressive thinning in the crown as well as all throughout the top... while its obv that you have given him a higher hairline is pharm under the impression that FUE alone will tackle his future loss?? actually, are YOU under this impression of do you believe he will require a strip procedure.. because as pharm continues to lose the hair behind his transplant(which IMO is only a matter of time) his FUE alone will obv not be enough to sustain a 'natural' look, or any kind of natural looking balding pattern.... would you mind shedding a little light on what SMGs future plans are with pharmds case aswell??

 

thanks

[the B spot]

LMS---the first patient you asked about is the poster child for FUE imho....he has ALL the characteristics, exceptional donor density, excellent hair caliber, slight recession and no history of family loss. This guy has exceptional donor...should he progress further, he has enough donor to combat his baldness. We believe he is in no danger of running out of donor because he has an over abundance, is on propecia, and Dr. Ron/Dr. Paul both feel he will not excessively bald over his lifetime. Basically if your going bald, you want this guys donor and hair characteristics.

 

 

Pharm is obviously a bit older, but I want to say up front, we tell EVERY patient there is the possibility of more work. No exceptions. In Pharm's case, he wanted to establish a hairline first, let it grow, assess his "look" and his donor and proceed from there. He likely has enough FUE donor to hit the frontal core and into the mid-scalp, but probably not the crown.

However, he wears his hair short always---he is fine with that strong hairline and a thinner look at this time. In his case, one of my first comments was to say that he would need 2 sessions more than likely. He is more than aware that has the option of switching to strip later if he desires. However, he still has quite a bit of hair and he is not looking for a thick transplant...he wants the ability to buzz it down low and keep his options open.

 

IMHO, this is where FUE used properly comes into play...by allowing Pharm to keep a natural thinning look, but still retain a natural, soft hairline...even if he loses the crown over the next 5-10 years, he can still rock the short cut and a tan and look great.

 

His hairline "density" that he received in this transplant can be easily matched should he lose his frontal forelock (the part we did not transplant into that is surrounded by the hairline) and even IF in 5 years he loses everything else to a NW5-6 we could use FUE to hit the forelock and then get progressively thinner going toward the crown...natural, normal, with crown loss...but still able to retain the short cut...UNLESS, he decided to go more aggressive and switch to strip. Obviously his choice.

 

A ton of thinking, talking back and forth and planning goes on...Hell, some guys get mad at me for taking "too long" to have Matt schedule them...but that's just the way it is..We're not in a hurry and we talk this out.

 

I do want to be clear, these are informed adults, making reasoned decisions, advised of risks/side effects. While Dr. Ron/Dr. Paul and Janna have worked hard to minimize the risk involved, there is a level of risk involved in hair transplantation. If after all the information is presented, a guy says no way, we believe he has made a great choice. For others, the risk is acceptable, and for others, regardless of their acceptance of the risk, we would refuse them service.

 

Take Care,

Jason