Botched Hairtransplantion by HLC clinic in Ancara

[michael hofmann]

55 minutes ago, sukh123 said:

Michael your donor looks likes it’s has  shock loss and some over-harvesting. And hlc have dropped the ball with regards to their usual standards on that point. However I have to say having had a fut procedure which yielded poor growth and then a second procedure which again wasn’t giving much growth . I think you were naive in then committing  to a third transplant given your poor yield from the first two. Everything can be done correctly in a hair transplant, even by the best and sometime our biological makeup prevents us getting good results. Which is why you see subpars from even the best in the world. I know you said you were told you had enough donor , but I think given your previous two procedures didn’t work out you had enough foresight to induce that maybe going for a third was not in your best interest atm, till a full evaluation of your scalp was done to try and explain why you had issues with the prior two surgeries .

No, you don"t get this kind of results from the best in the world, only from hairmills. As i said before i have had an evaluation by three doctors by now. If you scan and compare photos from my donor area after the second operation and the surrent state, there is no schockloss going on. They have not only overharvested but most of the grafts that are left on the donor area are single grafts.

I have already said, i have ekzem. or seborrheic Dermatitis behind the ears and on my face. This is a video from a doctor, recommended in this forum, who is talking about this issues.

As i said before, there is no excuse and no reason, except from money, to destroy the head of somebody.

 

[sukh123]

21 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

No, you don"t get this kind of results from the best in the world, only from hairmills. As i said before i have had an evaluation by three doctors by now. If you scan and compare photos from my donor area after the second operation and the surrent state, there is no schockloss going on. They have not only overharvested but most of the grafts that are left on the donor area are single grafts.

I have already said, i have ekzem. or seborrheic Dermatitis behind the ears and on my face. This is a video from a doctor, recommended in this forum, who is talking about this issues.

As i said before, there is no excuse and no reason, except from money, to destroy the head of somebody.

 

Your missing my point what I am saying is that your had two prior treatments before which  also didn’t have a good yield . So knowing that you had two procedures and they didn’t produce results , you should not of gone forward irrespective of what the doctor said . If I had two bad procedures before, common sense would dictate that maybe this just isn’t working and I need to pause this process atm . I’m not putting the blame on you , I know you feel hard done by and I agree it wasn’t the best , but you should of also been more diligent  and not gung ho in going for a third procedure given what happened with your previous two. And also in the video dr bisanga clearly says that if you have dermatitis it’s needs to be treated before you get a hair transplant to ensure optimal yield . Now that is where hlc should of been more prudent in telling you this. I understand you went to a dermatologist who advised you it was fine but I disagree and you had bad luck in that regards. You can’t expect a plant to grow to its potential in sub optimal conditions , the same applies to hair 

Edited August 4, 2022 by sukh123

[ITA]

17 minutes ago, sukh123 said:

Your missing my point what I am saying is that your had two prior treatments before which  also didn’t have a good yield . So knowing that you had two procedures and they didn’t produce results , you should not of gone forward irrespective of what the doctor said . If I had two bad procedures before, common sense would dictate that maybe this just isn’t working and I need to pause this process atm . I’m not putting the blame on you , I know you feel hard done by and I agree it wasn’t the best , but you should of also been more diligent  and not gung ho in going for a third procedure given what happened with your previous two. And also in the video dr bisanga clearly says that if you have dermatitis it’s needs to be treated before you get a hair transplant to ensure optimal yield . Now that is where hlc should of been more prudent in telling you this. I understand you went to a dermatologist who advised you it was fine but I disagree and you had bad luck in that regards. You can’t expect a plant to grow to its potential in sub optimal conditions , the same applies to hair 

Exactly this ^

[michael hofmann]

27 minutes ago, sukh123 said:

Your missing my point what I am saying is that your had two prior treatments before which  also didn’t have a good yield . So knowing that you had two procedures and they didn’t produce results , you should not of gone forward irrespective of what the doctor said . If I had two bad procedures before, common sense would dictate that maybe this just isn’t working and I need to pause this process atm . I’m not putting the blame on you , I know you feel hard done by and I agree it wasn’t the best , but you should of also been more diligent  and not gung ho in going for a third procedure given what happened with your previous two. And also in the video dr bisanga clearly says that if you have dermatitis it’s needs to be treated before you get a hair transplant to ensure optimal yield . Now that is where hlc should of been more prudent in telling you this. I understand you went to a dermatologist who advised you it was fine but I disagree and you had bad luck in that regards. You can’t expect a plant to grow to its potential in sub optimal conditions , the same applies to hair 

Yes i had two procedures with 1500 (500 and 1000 grafts) grafts to cover the front and the middle part before many years. My goal was not to get a full coverage but to be able to use toppik without any problems. I was not expecting to get a full head of hair with 1500 grafts. 

As i told before i had a conslulting with the clinic twice before i get the procedure.  The doctor knew my full history and the problem with the Dermatitis. In the area where they took the grafts and in the area where they have placed the grafts there is no sign of dermatitis. But if this is a risk factor they shoud have told me and warn me about it, the Doctor said nothing about it.

I think you are missing the point here too. I am talking the whole time about what they did to the back of my head and this is permanent damage. They quoted me for 6000 grafts from the donor area, when in the reality i had an average donor area. The Doctor who did the consulting talked to me even after the procedure twice, telling me that they can even lower the hairline if i wanted to in a second procedure. 

I went to this clinic because i thought they were professionals and they knew what they are saying. I never thought i had to figure it out alone, how many grafts do i have available and how many procedures do i need.

I have already said that i have spoken to other top doctors now and explained them what happened. Is is just impossible to take 2000-2200 grafts in 3-4 hours without a high transection rate. Even the best doctors that do manual fue they take aroung 1000 grafts in a whole day. There is a reason for that. These are not my words.

[omega5]

I agree with machoVako on this issue. I think it's too early to make a decision. If they were hairdressers, as some people here say, they should have ruined your donor area after the first purchase, but it doesn't seem like it. Clearly, this is a condition related to your skin disease. And as far as I know, the clinic is very sensitive about this. Here either you were not informed enough or did not give information or you did not want to cancel the op. Anyway, there are people here who go to hlc and we can learn from them about their work ethic. Even john1991, who had previously transplanted and suffered from the destruction of the donor area, cannot claim that they are hairdressers, he is very satisfied with the recipient area, but suffers from the donor area. You are clearly making excessive claims for a clinic that has been operating for 20 years

Edited August 4, 2022 by omega5

[HappyMan2021]

@michael hofmann 

I'm curious if you had to pay in full for all your procedures at HLC?

Or was the 2nd procedure a free or discounted touchup since you were unhappy with the 1st procedure?

My 1st HT was crap, but I somehow ended up with the same doctor for my 2nd procedure bc I was suckered in by their offer of a free repair. 

 

Regardless of whether you did pay for all your surgeries or not, just want to let you know its quite common for people to feel pressured to go back to the same clinic even after a bad result. 

Perhaps there were more extreme factors at play (if the doctors knew about the skin issue that should have been a hard no go)

But at face value I don't think you should be judged so harshly and critically for going to the same clinic 2x. Its an unfortunate but common fallacy to go back to a crap clinic multiple times. 

[michael hofmann]

9 minutes ago, omega5 said:

830 / 5.000

 

Çeviri sonuçları

 

star_border

 

I agree with machoVako on this issue. I think it's too early to make a decision. If they were hairdressers, as some people here say, they should have ruined your donor area after the first purchase, but it doesn't seem like it. Clearly, this is a condition related to your skin disease. And as far as I know, the clinic is very sensitive about this. Here either you were not informed enough or did not give information or you did not want to cancel the op. Anyway, there are people here who go to hlc and we can learn from them about their work ethic. Even john1991, who had previously transplanted and suffered from the destruction of the donor area, cannot claim that they are hairdressers, he is very satisfied with the recipient area, but suffers from the donor area. You are clearly making excessive claims for a clinic that has been operating for 20 years

Omega5 i think we know each other. Or not?

[michael hofmann]

5 minutes ago, HappyMan2021 said:

@michael hofmann 

I'm curious if you had to pay in full for all your procedures at HLC?

Or was the 2nd procedure a free or discounted touchup since you were unhappy with the 1st procedure?

My 1st HT was crap, but I somehow ended up with the same doctor for my 2nd procedure bc I was suckered in by their offer of a free repair. 

 

Regardless of whether you did pay for all your surgeries or not, just want to let you know its quite common for people to feel pressured to go back to the same clinic even after a bad result. 

Perhaps there were more extreme factors at play (if the doctors knew about the skin issue that should have been a hard no go)

But at face value I don't think you should be judged so harshly and critically for going to the same clinic 2x. Its an unfortunate but common fallacy to go back to a crap clinic multiple times. 

I paid for the second surgery in full. I have already written you know, i really thought i should wait after the fist surgery for the results to come.They have used 2000 grafts from beard and it can take up to 16 months for this grafts to grow. I was unhappy 6 months after the procedure but i did not believe it was a failure. I thought i should give it more time for the final result to come.

[omega5]

2 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

Omega5 sanırım birbirimizi tanıyoruz. Ya da değil?

I don't think so man, I don't know you. How is that possible?😅

I also want to ask something. Did the clinic really want to transplant you even though they knew about your disease or did they miss it? Because I know a patient who was rejected for this before. This patient had gone there from America. It is not easy to reject a patient who has come this far.

[michael hofmann]

5 minutes ago, omega5 said:

I don't think so man, I don't know you. How is that possible?😅

I also want to ask something. Did the clinic really want to transplant you even though they knew about your disease or did they miss it? Because I know a patient who was rejected for this before. This patient had gone there from America. It is not easy to reject a patient who has come this far.

I think we know each other. It is easy for you to find a patient that travelled all this way from America to turkey and got rejected from this clinic because of his Disease. I bet he had sub. Dermatitis too. Can you saw me some pictures from this patient too?

[sukh123]

58 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

Yes i had two procedures with 1500 (500 and 1000 grafts) grafts to cover the front and the middle part before many years. My goal was not to get a full coverage but to be able to use toppik without any problems. I was not expecting to get a full head of hair with 1500 grafts. 

As i told before i had a conslulting with the clinic twice before i get the procedure.  The doctor knew my full history and the problem with the Dermatitis. In the area where they took the grafts and in the area where they have placed the grafts there is no sign of dermatitis. But if this is a risk factor they shoud have told me and warn me about it, the Doctor said nothing about it.

I think you are missing the point here too. I am talking the whole time about what they did to the back of my head and this is permanent damage. They quoted me for 6000 grafts from the donor area, when in the reality i had an average donor area. The Doctor who did the consulting talked to me even after the procedure twice, telling me that they can even lower the hairline if i wanted to in a second procedure. 

I went to this clinic because i thought they were professionals and they knew what they are saying. I never thought i had to figure it out alone, how many grafts do i have available and how many procedures do i need.

I have already said that i have spoken to other top doctors now and explained them what happened. Is is just impossible to take 2000-2200 grafts in 3-4 hours without a high transection rate. Even the best doctors that do manual fue they take aroung 1000 grafts in a whole day. There is a reason for that. These are not my words.

I need to correct you on this and I’m sure everyone on this forum will agree with this . Taking 2000k grafts a day is actually ethical and is done for the reason of minimising transection . Most top doctors do that amount and 2000 is no way a potential hindrance give you have hair mills doing 4000 plus and at times getting good results . De Freitas, bisanga , pinto all extract a maximum of 2000k or slightly less per day and have low transection . Eugenix and dr zarev do more than that and get great results. It’s down to manual dexterity and how the grafts are  extracted and dealt with once they are outside the scalp that determines potential transection  . Now I agree your donor has not been dealt with right , and that’s where blame at the clinic is justified aswell as operating on you given your skin condition  . But again my point is you were naive ,knowing your previous two transplants didn’t work and still went for a third. Even if a doctor told me it can still work out it’s just common sense that you shouldn’t, given the two previous ones had poor yield . I myself considered them a year ago, but they emailed me back saying no because I just started finasteride, which I appreciated and was sound advice as I have been able to do more research and my hair has stabilised and seen some regrowth in the crown and in that time I’ve been able to do more research and hence choose one of the best in Dr bisanga who I have a consultation with . That why I was surprised that they did go ahead with the procedure given my experience with them

Edited August 4, 2022 by sukh123

[SeanT1]

7 hours ago, michael hofmann said:

How does this looks to you for a donor area after 6,5 months?. With the time it has only gotten worse. What do you think that this is?

 

My friend, it might be worth considering going to a good SMP clinic to fix any patchy look to your hair.

[michael hofmann]

2 minutes ago, sukh123 said:

I need to correct you on this and I’m sure everyone on this forum will agree with this . Taking 2000k grafts a day is actually ethical and is done for the reason of minimising transection . Most top doctors do that amount and 2000 is no way a potential hindrance give you have hair mills doing 4000 plus and at times getting good results . De Freitas, bisanga , pinto all extract a maximum of 2000k or slightly less per day and have low transection . Eugenix and dr zarev do more than that and get great results. It’s down to manual dexterity and how the grafts are  extracted and dealt with once they are outside the scalp to help minimise potential transection  . Now I agree your donor has not been dealt with right , and that’s where blame at the clinic is justified aswell as operating on you given your skin condition  . But again my point is you were naive ,knowing your previous two transplants didn’t work and still went for a third. Even if a doctor told me it can still work out it’s just common sense that you shouldn’t, given the two previous ones had poor yield . 

I am not talking about extractin 2000 grafts per day with motorised punch, i am talking about manual punch. If you go to doctors like bicer or mwamba or other top doctors the can extract 2000 grafts with the motorised punch in aday without any problems. With the manual punch you need a whole day to extract 1000 grafts, if you want to do it right. That is what i have been told at least. 

As i said before i feel responsiple for making this decision to go to this clinic. I was naive believing all that was said to me.

[michael hofmann]

11 minutes ago, SeanToman said:

 

My friend, it might be worth considering going to a good SMP clinic to fix any patchy look to your hair.

I have considered that. I have a scar on the back of my head from pervious strip and that makes me not a good candidate for smp. With smp you have to shave you head literally very day to make it look natural. By shaving the head is the scar exposed.

[sukh123]

6 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

I am not talking about extractin 2000 grafts per day with motorised punch, i am talking about manual punch. If you go to doctors like bicer or mwamba or other top doctors the can extract 2000 grafts with the motorised punch in aday without any problems. With the manual punch you need a whole day to extract 1000 grafts, if you want to do it right. That is what i have been told at least. 

As i said before i feel responsiple for making this decision to go to this clinic. I was naive believing all that was said to me.

Again they’ve been doing manual punch for 20 years I think and have had good success in it. Manual has advantages in that you get a better feel of the follicle when extracting it, konoir one of the best follows the same method of stick and Place and manual , although I might be wrong . At the end of the day it depends on the doctors skill and not the method , and that is where you were let down . But given after your first procedure your donor was fine , you can’t call them butchers because it would have happened the first time. The second time is unfortunate and I understand your emotions, I think you have had bad shock loss and some bad extractions. Hopefully it. Does recover and if not wish you the best in finding a solution 

[BaldDude]

Nobody from HLC has responded here? I would think they would have a rep here.

[ITA]

7 minutes ago, BaldBobby said:

Nobody from HLC has responded here? I would think they would have a rep here.

Not officially, but I'm sure they are there and read.

[michael hofmann]

7 minutes ago, sukh123 said:

Again they’ve been doing manual punch for 20 years I think and have had good success in it. Manual has advantages in that you get a better feel of the follicle when extracting it, konoir one of the best follows the same method of stick and Place and manual , although I might be wrong . At the end of the day it depends on the doctors skill and not the method , and that is where you were let down . But given after your first procedure your donor was fine , you can’t call them butchers because it would have happened the first time. The second time is unfortunate and I understand your emotions, I think you have had bad shock loss and some bad extractions. Hopefully it. Does recover and if not wish you the best in finding a solution 

All the doctors that i have mentioned are doing manual punch for the last 20 years ant they are still taking this approach  in order not to damage the grafts. I do not get that point with the first and the second procedure. Are you telling me the butchers are doing this always at the first time? It is not that hard to find out if you had Schockloss or overharvesing after a hairtransplant. You go to a doctor and you let him examine photos from your donor area after the procedure and now. If you scan and compare this photos via computer you now exactly the problem and what has been done.  

Anyway, thanks for your opinion.

 

[HappyMan2021]

7 minutes ago, BaldBobby said:

Nobody from HLC has responded here? I would think they would have a rep here.

lol how would the clinic even respond to a case like this?

"We knew the patient has a skin condition which would disqualify him from surgery. But errrr we really like money and the patient really wanted it done. As a doctor I prioritized the patient's enthusiasm over his own best interests and over everything I learned in medical school."

[Melvin- Admin]

@michael hofmann

What has the clinic said to you? Have they offered to perform scalp biopsy?

[michael hofmann]

17 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

@michael hofmann

What has the clinic said to you? Have they offered to perform scalp biopsy?

At the consulting by the first procedure the Director asked me about it and i have told him that i have ekzem. Dermatitis. That is all about. No, they did not offered or said anything about a biopsy.

[michael hofmann]

25 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

@michael hofmann

What has the clinic said to you? Have they offered to perform scalp biopsy?

Honestly i feel you are missing the point and the problem they have caused me. I have made this thread to show the damage that this clinic caused to the back of my head. This is something serious and really hard to fix.

[SeanT1]

1 hour ago, michael hofmann said:

I have considered that. I have a scar on the back of my head from pervious strip and that makes me not a good candidate for smp. With smp you have to shave you head literally very day to make it look natural. By shaving the head is the scar exposed.

I personally got SMP under my hair transplant just to help with density.  Perhaps it could help blend your donor also?

[asterix0]

OP, unfortunately I think you are out of good options here, but I do believe with smp you can look normal and nobody would really perceive anything off besides you having a shaved head.

It is a pity what was done to you and I hope you get some sort of compensation back although there is no price that is worth getting your hair back after such a botched procedure.

First and foremost before doing so see several dermatologists and make sure your skin is healthy, also do your due diligence and go to only the best SMP clinics, perhaps get the temporary kind first to see how you like it.

Again I am sorry this happened to you and you have my deepest sympathies.

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, michael hofmann said:

Honestly i feel you are missing the point and the problem they have caused me. I have made this thread to show the damage that this clinic caused to the back of my head. This is something serious and really hard to fix.

Well, there is a small possibility things will turn around. It is 6 months and it is possible that its shock loss. I suggest taking photos in the same location under the same lighting and documenting it here. If things do not improve, then I agree with you, the area is definitely concerning.