What surgeons might be underrated because they are more conservative regarding number of grafts? Who are the best 'do more with less' surgeons?

[HairRun]

I feel that most people's top 10 list is biased towards doctors who tend to go for more density and youthful looking hairlines. And that makes sense, more density looks good, has better aesthetics, and tends to get more buzz. Their results have the wow factor and their pictures get more praise. 

I've noticed that H&W might fit into this category, they got really good at high density, and from their reviews they seem to push for higher grafts than most. They also had the highest graft estimate from my consultation out of the ones I've consulted with. 

I think for most people that's probably the best approach since most people are on fin and have stabilized their hairloss, so it's more advantageous to have that sort of procedure. They can afford the donor grafts, and can avoid a potential need for a touchup and save money on additional procedures and travel. As good as the illusions of density are, nothing like having actual density, especially with wet hair. 

But for some of us that can only tolerate low or no dose finasteride, we have to prepare for eventually losing our whole top. So I have been focusing on seeking out surgeons who seem to do a lot with fewer grafts. 

The ones that have stuck out as of recently for me in this regard are Timothy Carmen, Dr Cooley, Arocha, and Bloxham

Maybe Dorin, Gabel, and Rahal fit into this category too but it seems that they are harder to pin down for this spectrum, maybe they adjust their strategy to the patient. 

What do you think? 

Edited July 7, 2022 by HairRun

[THE TRUTH]

Konior has by far the highest yield. 

Dude is capable of achieving A LOT of coverage with less grafts than other surgeons. 

I agree Hasson & Wong are extremely agressive with the graft count. 

[NARMAK]

I think we genuinely need to look at this from a holistic PoV, i don't think it's about "doing more with less" but there's certainly an artistic element which plays a huge part on top of the science of hair transplants. 

Doctors that can cherry pick the right grafts while having excellent donor management can achieve great results with fewer grafts, but that said, it's about taking account of the patient in front of you and their possible hair loss progression. 

Like myself for example, i would prefer as high a density as the doctor could manage safely whilst maintaining the artistry and that's probably down to the fact that i'm a Norwood 2 and still got decent density around the frontal hairline and want the HT to blend well. 

Somebody who is Norwood 7 for example, needs a different approach and Karl (Zoomster) is a great example of donor management in a smart way. 

I think reputation is a key part of what makes somebody popular in this industry, but consistency over time is what keeps you at the top and that's why Hasson and Wong for example are one of the most well regarded. 

[Melvin- Admin]

11 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

I think we genuinely need to look at this from a holistic PoV, i don't think it's about "doing more with less" but there's certainly an artistic element which plays a huge part on top of the science of hair transplants. 

Doctors that can cherry pick the right grafts while having excellent donor management can achieve great results with fewer grafts, but that said, it's about taking account of the patient in front of you and their possible hair loss progression. 

Like myself for example, i would prefer as high a density as the doctor could manage safely whilst maintaining the artistry and that's probably down to the fact that i'm a Norwood 2 and still got decent density around the frontal hairline and want the HT to blend well. 

Somebody who is Norwood 7 for example, needs a different approach and Karl (Zoomster) is a great example of donor management in a smart way. 

I think reputation is a key part of what makes somebody popular in this industry, but consistency over time is what keeps you at the top and that's why Hasson and Wong for example are one of the most well regarded. 

Well said. 

[davidn]

19 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

I think we genuinely need to look at this from a holistic PoV, i don't think it's about "doing more with less" but there's certainly an artistic element which plays a huge part on top of the science of hair transplants. 

Doctors that can cherry pick the right grafts while having excellent donor management can achieve great results with fewer grafts, but that said, it's about taking account of the patient in front of you and their possible hair loss progression. 

Like myself for example, i would prefer as high a density as the doctor could manage safely whilst maintaining the artistry and that's probably down to the fact that i'm a Norwood 2 and still got decent density around the frontal hairline and want the HT to blend well. 

Somebody who is Norwood 7 for example, needs a different approach and Karl (Zoomster) is a great example of donor management in a smart way. 

I think reputation is a key part of what makes somebody popular in this industry, but consistency over time is what keeps you at the top and that's why Hasson and Wong for example are one of the most well regarded. 

Dude every one of your texts are so well thought out and balanced. Love it.

[HappyMan2021]

5 hours ago, HairRun said:

Timothy Carmen, Dr Cooley, Arocha, and Bloxham

Never heard of Timothy Carmen before in my life. Arocha and Dorin are pretty random names to have in someone's list of Top Docs. 

[Buck Naked]

I think the best more with less grafts surgeons, in no particular order, are Konior, Gabel, Dorin, and Charles (this list is just my opinion). 

[deeznuts]

I think H&W are quite capable of "conservative" results. Just cause you can plant a forest doesn't mean you aren't able to plant a few trees.

Sure they might recommend more grafts but all you gotta do is ask for less

[Z--]

5 hours ago, Buck Naked said:

I think the best more with less grafts surgeons, in no particular order, are Konior, Gabel, Dorin, and Charles (this list is just my opinion). 

Gabel is super underrated on the forum. Good to see him mentioned.

[HairRun]

2 hours ago, Z-- said:

Gabel is super underrated on the forum. Good to see him mentioned.

Going through his reviews is pretty impressive. He trained under Dr Konior btw

[Buck Naked]

3 hours ago, Z-- said:

Gabel is super underrated on the forum. Good to see him mentioned.

Yes, he is very underrated. I had a consult with him and he was extremely meticulous and detailed. 

[hairfloss]

If by conservative you mean how willing is the surgeon to talk to you about planning multiple surgeries in advance(donor management), taking into consideration your usage (or lack of usage) of fin, as well as what YOU want YOUR hair to look like, then I feel like it’s just a matter of asking and no one will say no?

[Hairy Henderson]

On 7/8/2022 at 4:56 AM, Buck Naked said:

Yes, he is very underrated. I had a consult with him and he was extremely meticulous and detailed. 

Isn't Gabel mostly repair cases?

[HappyMan2021]

2 minutes ago, Calihome1 said:

Isn't Gabel mostly repair cases?

all well-known HT docs have repair cases making up a large part of their portfolio. 

The crap doctors get the first-timers, who then go to the well known docs once they learn their painful lesson

Circle of life. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by HappyMan2021

[Buck Naked]

17 minutes ago, Calihome1 said:

Isn't Gabel mostly repair cases?

No. He definitely does a lot of repair cases though. @HappyMan2021said it well. 

[Hairy Henderson]

Wow; just found out that Cooley charges $300 for a consult.

[NARMAK]

1 hour ago, Calihome1 said:

Wow; just found out that Cooley charges $300 for a consult.

Unfortunately demand of the market. On one side we have hair mills getting high volumes but lower prices and raking it in. On the other we have doctors who have a certain reputation sometimes even middling but charge high due to location, UK, US, Europe etc. and do low volumes and make a big margin. Then there's always the elite side which have reputation and usually over time and charge what they charge because the demand is consistently there. 

This is why Turkey and this pandemic have created a ticking time bomb of bad hairlines and repair cases in waiting, yet there's going to be so much demand it's inevitable some will not be able to get themselves repaired. 

I genuinely do think the psychological impact of botch jobs is not being considered by younger guys and eventually we will probably see even more reputable doctors charging for consults and a higher amount. 

[HappyMan2021]

2 hours ago, Calihome1 said:

Wow; just found out that Cooley charges $300 for a consult.

wow crazy. I was looking into Cooley a while back and for me to have a consult with him, there was a 3 month waitlist AND it would have to be in person in North Carolina. 

Kind of funny to me to have to pay for a plane, hotel, all the stress of travel, 3 month waitlist, and have to pay a fee on top 🤣

In most cases I understand and don't mind when docs charge minor consult fees. It weeds out non-serious people, and doctors are taking time to spend with you when you very well may decide to reject them. 

Plus, I kind of feel like if someone is going to whine and complain about a $50 or $100 consult fee, how in the hell are you going to pay for a $15-20k surgery lol. 

But if a doctor is requiring me to fly out to see him in person, I definitely think a consult fee is a bit frivolous. 

[Hairy Henderson]

Just now, HappyMan2021 said:

wow crazy. I was looking into Cooley a while back and for me to have a consult with him, there was a 3 month waitlist AND it would have to be in person in North Carolina. 

Kind of funny to me to have to pay for a plane, hotel, all the stress of travel, 3 month waitlist, and have to pay a fee on top 🤣

In most cases I understand and don't mind when docs charge minor consult fees. It weeds out non-serious people, and doctors are taking time to spend with you when you very well may decide to reject them. 

Plus, I kind of feel like if someone is going to whine and complain about a $50 or $100 consult fee, how in the hell are you going to pay for a $15-20k surgery lol. 

But if a doctor is requiring me to fly out to see him in person, I definitely think a consult fee is a bit frivolous. 

Yep; and for me it's difficult considering I live in CA.  Flying out to east coast is already $600-$700 and time and a pain in the arse.

[HairRun]

2 hours ago, Calihome1 said:

Wow; just found out that Cooley charges $300 for a consult.

That probably means if you get a procedure with him, it's been expedited by several months. The free consults with top docs have a 3 month wait time. But when I had my consult with Cooley, I had an option to consult with a patient advocate for free. 

I think the top doctors could charge more if they wanted. They have a 1-2 year wait time. so wait time is usually the deciding factor, not price. Doctors are giving an opportunity to make a different type of sacrifice in order to get a procedure done with them.  

 

[HairRun]

8 minutes ago, Calihome1 said:

Yep; and for me it's difficult considering I live in CA.  Flying out to east coast is already $600-$700 and time and a pain in the arse.

 

 

10 minutes ago, HappyMan2021 said:

wow crazy. I was looking into Cooley a while back and for me to have a consult with him, there was a 3 month waitlist AND it would have to be in person in North Carolina. 

Kind of funny to me to have to pay for a plane, hotel, all the stress of travel, 3 month waitlist, and have to pay a fee on top 🤣

In most cases I understand and don't mind when docs charge minor consult fees. It weeds out non-serious people, and doctors are taking time to spend with you when you very well may decide to reject them. 

Plus, I kind of feel like if someone is going to whine and complain about a $50 or $100 consult fee, how in the hell are you going to pay for a $15-20k surgery lol. 

But if a doctor is requiring me to fly out to see him in person, I definitely think a consult fee is a bit frivolous. 

I had the option of doing a consult with a patient advocate, but I wouldn't make a plan with Cooley until morning of the procedure. If you are certain Cooly is the best, you could do that. 

[Hairy Henderson]

Just now, HairRun said:

 

 

I had the option of doing a consult with a patient advocate, but I wouldn't make a plan with Cooley until morning of the procedure. If you are certain Cooly is the best, you could do that. 

No, I’m not that high on Cooley.  He’s just one of the ones I reached out to.  
If I’m going to spend time and money to fly somewhere for a consult I would rather do that for someone like Bisanga who I think is excellent

[Melvin- Admin]

I see nothing wrong with charging consultation fees. Time is money, and time is non-refundable. Most surgeons add the consultation fee to the total cost of the procedure if you choose them, so it's really a moot point. I can definitely understand why surgeons charge money. I have spoken to some surgeons who don't charge consultation fees, and sometimes patients will try and take hours of their time, only to go to a cheap hair mill. If I were a surgeon I would charge a fee without a doubt. $250-300 is reasonable considering the total cost of a procedure is tens of thousands of dollars. 

[1978matt]

1 hour ago, HappyMan2021 said:

wow crazy. I was looking into Cooley a while back and for me to have a consult with him, there was a 3 month waitlist AND it would have to be in person in North Carolina. 

Kind of funny to me to have to pay for a plane, hotel, all the stress of travel, 3 month waitlist, and have to pay a fee on top 🤣

In most cases I understand and don't mind when docs charge minor consult fees. It weeds out non-serious people, and doctors are taking time to spend with you when you very well may decide to reject them. 

Plus, I kind of feel like if someone is going to whine and complain about a $50 or $100 consult fee, how in the hell are you going to pay for a $15-20k surgery lol. 

But if a doctor is requiring me to fly out to see him in person, I definitely think a consult fee is a bit frivolous. 

I flew 4000 miles to see Dr K in early 2013, although in those days there was no fee, and only a couple of months finding a slot where he was available.  He was very generous with his time too (1.5 hours).

Visiting beforehand is underrated, especially if you're making such a big investment.  I weaved the visit into a vacation elsewhere in the US.

[John1991]

22 hours ago, HappyMan2021 said:

all well-known HT docs have repair cases making up a large part of their portfolio. 

The crap doctors get the first-timers, who then go to the well known docs once they learn their painful lesson

Circle of life. 

That's a time and money consuming circle for patients.  It's a shame people don't research more thoroughly before putting themselves through something that will - even if it yields great results in as quick a time as possible - result in many months of waiting/having an impaired social life plus many thousands of dollars.