Nw5 to Nw6 diffuse hairloss (not DUPA)- having average calliber, dark blonde hair

[Fmulder]

Hi

I would like to get an advise what are my top surgeons first without budget limit, only in Europe and Turkey.

Preferrably the doctor is involved as much as possible in the procedure.

I have been estimated as having good donor area, around 8K roughlly estimated.
By top clinics I mean sugeons that can handle and are doing not few NW6 state and bring a wow result.

Bonus part: If you can show some links to their works , except writing clinic names it would be very helpful.

Cheers

[THE TRUTH]

Tsvetalin Zarev 

Juan Couto

Bruno Pinto 

Rafael de Freitas 

Bruno Ferreira and Ximena Vila are good options too.

Outside Europe, Pitella and Pradeep Sethi are really good too. 

I would honestly forget about Turkey... Even the better clinics in Turkey seem to struggle with advanced Norwoods and crown restoration. 

[Fmulder]

1 hour ago, Jason Blaha said:

Tsvetalin Zarev 

Juan Couto

Bruno Pinto 

Rafael de Freitas 

Bruno Ferreira and Ximena Vila are good options too.

Outside Europe, Pitella and Pradeep Sethi are really good too. 

I would honestly forget about Turkey... Even the better clinics in Turkey seem to struggle with advanced Norwoods and crown restoration. 

@Jason Blaha
Thanks for your immediate answer.
Two more specific questions from your opinion of course.
1. Can you order your preference in list above from 1 for the best and so on?
2. I've heard Turkey is not best for crown, but if I undergo now a restoration for frontal and mid scalp for first Fue;
What is your opinion about HLC regarding it?

Secondly if you know HLC, which doctors of the 4 there are the best, in case you know?

Edited June 24, 2022 by Fmulder

[Melvin- Admin]

In my opinion, Dr. Bisanga has some of the best results with blonde/dark blonde patients. He’s simply one of the best. Check out @Raphael84 and @Maa who had ridiculous results. 

[THE TRUTH]

13 hours ago, Fmulder said:

@Jason Blaha
Thanks for your immediate answer.
Two more specific questions from your opinion of course.
1. Can you order your preference in list above from 1 for the best and so on?
2. I've heard Turkey is not best for crown, but if I undergo now a restoration for frontal and mid scalp for first Fue;
What is your opinion about HLC regarding it?

Secondly if you know HLC, which doctors of the 4 there are the best, in case you know?

You cannot chose the doctor who will perform your procedure. 

Also there are not enough results available from each specific doctor to be able to draw any conclusion in regards to which one is the best or which one is better than the other. 

Some of the subpar results I've seen were from Dr. Umut. 

Dr. Ozgur is the founding doctor. He does not operate anymore. 

Dr. Elif is there since the very beginning. She generally does only the extractions and she is currently the most experienced of the operating surgeons. 

Dr. Cengiz has good results from what I've seen.  He is a bit conservative which is not a bad thing especially with young patients. 

Dr. Bekir is the new doctor who replaced Dr. Akin.  I have seen only one result from him so far. It was good. 

Dr. Pekiner and Dr. Ali left the clinic a long time ago. Pekiner has his own clinic now as you know but I have no idea what happened to Dr. Ali. 

Honestly I have no clue who is the best in terms of consistency of results and it does not really matter since you can't choose.  

[Z--]

Avoid Turkey if you're Nw6 diffuse. You have super limited grafts, and you cannot afford to have your donor depleted and risk bad placement.  Zarev is probably the very best on the list in Europe (I'd imagine Couto is long wait time and slightly more expensive). If you want a more budget option, get a lower package from Eugenix.

[Fmulder]

23 minutes ago, Z-- said:

Avoid Turkey if you're Nw6 diffuse. You have super limited grafts, and you cannot afford to have your donor depleted and risk bad placement.  Zarev is probably the very best on the list in Europe (I'd imagine Couto is long wait time and slightly more expensive). If you want a more budget option, get a lower package from Eugenix.

I know Turkey in general should be avoided

But does it apply to HLC also?

Is it taking a risk of bad donor managment and grafts survival?

[Z--]

I think HLC and Bicer are two of the better doctors in Turkey. Even with that said, diffuse thinning is very very difficult, often involving limited donor. Even the two doctors I mentioned, I don't think they are at the level of some of the European doctors (esp. Zarev and Couto) or those that specialize with higher Norwoods (Eugenix, H&W). 

I don't think it's possible to give an estimate of success, but I think a good result with a diffuse thinner is already battling against the odds (I'm also a Nw6 diffuse ). I don't think you'll get botched by HLC (unlike some other Turkish clinics...), but I also don't trust that you'll get the most aesthetic result, or more importantly, the best use of your donor. 

Say you have 6,000 donor and 4,000 scalp to use. A completely diffused top will require maximum efficiency of those grafts and minimal to no waste to get a natural result. If you still have hair, it's even harder because you need to plan for future loss, so its not a one and done thing. You'll prob need a minimum of two or three surgeries. Each graft wasted or sub-optimally utilized will significantly hurt the result compared to someone with less loss.

I think the amount of time you'd research on buying a a nice car is the amount of time you ought to be looking at doctors and their results. Don't make cost the primary factor.

[THE TRUTH]

19 minutes ago, Z-- said:

I think HLC and Bicer are two of the better doctors in Turkey. Even with that said, diffuse thinning is very very difficult, often involving limited donor. Even the two doctors I mentioned, I don't think they are at the level of some of the European doctors (esp. Zarev and Couto) or those that specialize with higher Norwoods (Eugenix, H&W). 

I don't think it's possible to give an estimate of success, but I think a good result with a diffuse thinner is already battling against the odds (I'm also a Nw6 diffuse ). I don't think you'll get botched by HLC (unlike some other Turkish clinics...), but I also don't trust that you'll get the most aesthetic result, or more importantly, the best use of your donor. 

Say you have 6,000 donor and 4,000 scalp to use. A completely diffused top will require maximum efficiency of those grafts and minimal to no waste to get a natural result. If you still have hair, it's even harder because you need to plan for future loss, so its not a one and done thing. You'll prob need a minimum of two or three surgeries. Each graft wasted or sub-optimally utilized will significantly hurt the result compared to someone with less loss.

I think the amount of time you'd research on buying a a nice car is the amount of time you ought to be looking at doctors and their results. Don't make cost the primary factor.

I agree and I would totally second what Z--- said. 

When you are a Norwood 5-6 you gotta optimize the yield of every single graft that you use. 

Like I said many times, I like Dr. Bicer. She is nice and she certainly does good and consistent work. She is without any doubt the best option in her price range. 

Now I also have to say I believe Dr. Bicer, Dr. Gur, Dr. Turan are slightly overhyped on this forum and may not be the best options for advanced Norwoods and when it comes to the best possible use of your donor area. 

Again they are all good and I like them. 

But when you are Norwood 5 and beyond and you are goal is to get as close as possible to the illusion of full head of hair then you cannot make any mistake. You gotta do your best in order to maximize each and every graft straight from the very beginning. 

Same goes for HLC, I've never seen any spectacular result from them on advanced Norwoods nor do they specialize in crown work vertex.

I still believe they are a good clinic  and amongst the handful few reliable clinics in Turkey but after seeing a non negligeable number of subpar results from them, I don't think they'd be the best bet for someone looking to maximize every single graft. 

Depends on your expectations and goals. If you are a Norwood 6 who is on a budget and whose goal is to just get a hairline that frames your face then yeah Bicer or HLC is a good option. Yeah why not. I'm sure they'll both do good work although don't expect crazy density. 

On the other hand, if your goal is to get 10 000 grafts transplanted in total to get as close as possible to decent head of hair then go with someone like Zarev, Pitella, Pradeep Sethi. 

Couto is really good too. I love him and I'd trust him all day. But in all honesty he is a bit overhyped. I don't think he's necessarily better than De Freitas or Pinto. 

[Eugenix Hair Sciences]

18 hours ago, Jason Blaha said:

Tsvetalin Zarev 

Juan Couto

Bruno Pinto 

Rafael de Freitas 

Bruno Ferreira and Ximena Vila are good options too.

Outside Europe, Pitella and Pradeep Sethi are really good too. 

I would honestly forget about Turkey... Even the better clinics in Turkey seem to struggle with advanced Norwoods and crown restoration. 

Thank you for your mention.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Eugenix Hair Sciences

[Eugenix Hair Sciences]

2 hours ago, Z-- said:

Avoid Turkey if you're Nw6 diffuse. You have super limited grafts, and you cannot afford to have your donor depleted and risk bad placement.  Zarev is probably the very best on the list in Europe (I'd imagine Couto is long wait time and slightly more expensive). If you want a more budget option, get a lower package from Eugenix.

Thank you for your reference.

[John1991]

19 hours ago, Jason Blaha said:

Tsvetalin Zarev 

Juan Couto

Bruno Pinto 

Rafael de Freitas 

Bruno Ferreira and Ximena Vila are good options too.

Outside Europe, Pitella and Pradeep Sethi are really good too. 

I would honestly forget about Turkey... Even the better clinics in Turkey seem to struggle with advanced Norwoods and crown restoration. 

Are you actually Jason Blaha?

[Fmulder]

2 hours ago, Jason Blaha said:

 

"Depends on your expectations and goals. If you are a Norwood 6 who is on a budget and whose goal is to just get a hairline that frames your face then yeah Bicer or HLC is a good option. Yeah why not. I'm sure they'll both do good work although don't expect crazy density. "
What does it mean, what is crazy density, why can't I expect at least pure 50 - 60 grafts per cm squared?

"On the other hand, if your goal is to get 10 000 grafts transplanted in total to get as close as possible to decent head of hair then go with someone like Zarev, Pitella, Pradeep Sethi. 
I've heard about Zarev giga sessions, sound a bit like a hype, it sounds like he know to take more of the rest of surgeons without harming visual donor area, sounds a bit fishy, I must say.

"Couto is really good too. I love him and I'd trust him all day. But in all honesty he is a bit overhyped. I don't think he's necessarily better than De Freitas or Pinto. "

Thanks just to learn from you a little more, how is Ferreira putting into this equation, you mentioned him at first and now mentioned other spanish doctors.

Please notice that all the spanish doctors are quite busy with enourmous waiting lists for consulations, before even trying to schedule Fue, I don't want to get Fue at the age of 80, so in case we have more names with less hype but a solid results would appreciated.

Last input request is for HDC Cyprus- Maras\Christina,
do you think they are also suitable to manage Future norwood 6 among the best?

Edited June 25, 2022 by Fmulder

[Fmulder]

Hi 
@MachoVato, if you can share with us your experience as well, I would be gratful, I think you were nw6

[THE TRUTH]

1 minute ago, Fmulder said:

"Depends on your expectations and goals. If you are a Norwood 6 who is on a budget and whose goal is to just get a hairline that frames your face then yeah Bicer or HLC is a good option. Yeah why not. I'm sure they'll both do good work although don't expect crazy density. "
What does it mean, what is crazy density, why can't I expect at least pure 50 - 60 grafts per cm squared?

"On the other hand, if your goal is to get 10 000 grafts transplanted in total to get as close as possible to decent head of hair then go with someone like Zarev, Pitella, Pradeep Sethi. 
I've heard about Zarev giga sessions, sound a bit like a hype, it sounds like he know to take more of the rest of surgeons without harming visual donor area, sounds a bit fishy, I must say.

"Couto is really good too. I love him and I'd trust him all day. But in all honesty he is a bit overhyped. I don't think he's necessarily better than De Freitas or Pinto. "

Thanks just to learn from you a little more, how is Ferreira putting into this equation?
Please notice that all the spanish doctors are quite busy with enourmous waiting lists for consulations, before even trying to schedule Fue, I don't want to get fue at the age of 80, so in case we have more names with less hype but a solid results would appreciate.

Last input request is for HDC Cyprus- Maras\Christina,
do you think they are also suitable to manage Future norwood 6 among the best?

Sure you can get 50 grafts per cm2 on your hairline if you have a decent donor. But with that specific number of grafts you shouldn't expect a teenage dense hairline. That's why I meant specifically.  It will always look seethrough if you look closely or under harsh lighting. That's why hair transplants are all about "the illusion of density" thing. 

Agree about Zarev. He is legit but we have to see more independant reviews and testimonials before jumping to conclusions. 

Ferreira is good too. Similar to Pinto and Freitas in terms of quality. He worked under Lorenzo for many years. While Lorenzo has become a hairmill, Ferreira is the total opposite. He is 100% dedicated and does only one patient per day. I've seen only one bad result from him so far. It was on a guy by the name of Ittiaz. 

HDC is good yes. They are a reliable clinic It's similar to HLC namewise and quality wise. However never seen anything spectacular from them on advanced Norwoods. 

[THE TRUTH]

8 minutes ago, Fmulder said:

Hi 
@MachoVato, if you can share with us your experience as well, I would be gratful, I think you were nw6

No Tony wasn't even close to  a Norwood 6. 

He was something like Nw 3V to Nw 4 diffuse. 

He didn't have much hairloss at all. 

He had a receded hairline and a bit of thinning on the crown, which is really not a lot considering his age. 

He is a great guy. He shared his journey in details with both hlc and bisanga. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Jason Blaha

[Fmulder]

24 minutes ago, Jason Blaha said:

Sure you can get 50 grafts per cm2 on your hairline if you have a decent donor. But with that specific number of grafts you shouldn't expect a teenage dense hairline. That's why I meant specifically.  It will always look seethrough if you look closely or under harsh lighting. That's why hair transplants are all about "the illusion of density" thing. 

Agree about Zarev. He is legit but we have to see more independant reviews and testimonials before jumping to conclusions. 

Ferreira is good too. Similar to Pinto and Freitas in terms of quality. He worked under Lorenzo for many years. While Lorenzo has become a hairmill, Ferreira is the total opposite. He is 100% dedicated and does only one patient per day. I've seen only one bad result from him so far. It was on a guy by the name of Ittiaz. 

HDC is good yes. They are a reliable clinic It's similar to HLC namewise and quality wise. However never seen anything spectacular from them on advanced Norwoods. 

Cool, thanks, didn't know Lorenzo becaome a hairmill.
Far as I know, he was considered one of the best till last years,  (I believe probably still)  I guess it because of his price, else you say to me now his clinic is being operated by low level technicians or doctors.😆

The fact that we have only 5 doctors worldwide that know how to handle Nw6 really surprises me, I may be naive but I hope there more of what we think.
If you come into more names of European ones with solid results but legit with less web hype around, please let me know -
the results are what counts at the end.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Fmulder

[MachoVato]

No, I wasn't a NW6, you can see my HLC thread in my signature to see where I started. Temples/hairline were receded and plenty of diffusion, and just small amount of thinning on the crown. Fortunately my donor is good and I kept most of my temple points.

Getting 50 grafts/cm2 at the hairline is considered dense packing, I know that's what HLC does. Higher than that is not common at all, at least in 1 procedure. The challenge with high norwoods is always available donor.

The average hairline temple to temple, is about 7 inches long, or about 18 cm. 50 grafts/cm2 X 18 cm is 900 grafts. To get a proper illusion of density, you'll probably want it to be at minimum 2 cm deep, so that's now 1800 grafts... and that's only 2cm deep! Maybe you can get 30 grafts/cm2 for the rest of your mid scalp, which might need 4000 grafts depending on where you draw your hairline.

And that's not touching your crown. If you're really bald there, you'll likely need another 2000-2500 for that. So now you're over 8000 grafts. If you have 8k grafts in your donor, go for it. But as I said, most high norwoods don't have that. So they have to go to the beard and chest, which are less ideal. If you're lucky, you can find 2000 grafts there. That'll get you over 10,000 grafts, which might get you full coverage with some compromises. And of course, that's at least 2 transplants, preferably 3, which will take 2-3 years to see full results. 

Personally, I believe any good doctor can meet your needs under these conditions. I would look for a doctor that can do good extractions, since this can go badly in the wrong hands. Zarev is a standout here, I have a "man crush" on his donor management.