Two Transplants

[Al - Moderator]

You can never predict these things because even good results come down to the patients perceptions and expectations. You may not need another hair transplant, but you will probably have some areas that annoy you a bit because you can't quite style it the way you want because certain spots may be a bit thin. Then you end up debating with yourself if it's worth going for a touch up to get more density.  Even if it turns out really great and you are totally happy with the density, you may start focusing on a thinning crown that didn't bother you before because the front was in such bad shape, but now that the front is filled in the crown has become the worst area and you start giving it more attention and thinking to yourself that since the front came out so good why not go back to get a bit in the crown. These are just some examples of what most people go through in some way or another.

 

[Rossybop]

3 hours ago, BeHappy said:

You can never predict these things because even good results come down to the patients perceptions and expectations. You may not need another hair transplant, but you will probably have some areas that annoy you a bit because you can't quite style it the way you want because certain spots may be a bit thin. Then you end up debating with yourself if it's worth going for a touch up to get more density.  Even if it turns out really great and you are totally happy with the density, you may start focusing on a thinning crown that didn't bother you before because the front was in such bad shape, but now that the front is filled in the crown has become the worst area and you start giving it more attention and thinking to yourself that since the front came out so good why not go back to get a bit in the crown. These are just some examples of what most people go through in some way or another.

 

I see. Cool. I don't need any work done on the crown though, just the hair line and mostly the temporal areas.

[Hair4Days]

I think regardless of if you actually think you need a second pass for density, the cosmetic difference after one pass will certainly make a massive difference to the point where you might not even want more density. I also haven’t seen many second HT sessions being worked into previous recipient zones. Second procedures typically address the second zone of the scalp like mid & crown. After all said and done touch ups can be done if you really need to fill gaps. Doctors like dr bloxham, H&w dense pack the front zone to the point where I’ve never seen weak enough density in their result videos that would call for a second pass in the same area.

[Hair4Days]

On 11/29/2020 at 5:58 PM, DenverBuff1989 said:

@Rossybop literally every HT patient on the planet hopes their 1st HT is the only one they need. Unfortunately I would say the majority of guys actually need 2 or more procedures to achieve the desired look. I myself am a relatively mild Norwood 3, and have had 3 HTs in 2 yrs and am finally happy with the outcome - I never would have imagined my journey was going to involve 3 HTs. 

 

Yeah bro because your first one clearly wasn’t done properly. You went back for 500 free grafts. That doesn’t really count as needing a “second HT”.. if they packed in more grafts off the jump you’d be fine after 1 and may have a different opinion. I’ve seen so many cases of guys having one 3k graft case blasting the entire frontal half of the scalp with good density

[TommyLucchese]

You look very similar to me 8 years ago. I had 2,000 grafts to rebuild hairline....I have no density problems and don't need another pass.

It's a conservative hairline because I was only 23, so eventually I want to lower the corners a bit, but it's nothing to do with density or dissatisfaction at my result. 

I guess that, like me, you're more of a "routine" case for a skilled HT doctor and you'll get a result you're very happy with.

[Rossybop]

Guys I'm grateful for your input. This is giving me optimism. Thanks for dropping by to leave your comments.

James C I'm really only looking to cover the hairline; mostly the corners/temporal points. There's a good bit of recession there, but there's no sign of any need for crown work and the mid scalp is reasonably good too. You say they don't often touch up previous recipient areas? That's interesting, I didn't know that. As for density packing I'd love to get a super dense hairline first time around but I believe they can only transplant so many hairs per square cm per session. My hair is straight and perhaps finer than some and I've been told this might put me more at risk of a second appointment compared to someone who has dark curley hair.

Tommy Luchesse I'm delighted to hear you have no density problems. That's awesome bro, I hope you've been totally overjoyed with your hair transplant. I'm hoping to lower the corners as part of my procedure myself. My top surgeons have estimated it will take 1,800 - 2,000 grafts. I'm a bit older than you were when you first had surgery, I'm 30 now. I've also started using finasteride and I'm going to try Regaine too after my operation, so hopefully I'll get really good mileage out of my hair. I would be fairly routine I'd say.

I'm going with Dr Marwan Saifi in Poland. I can choose FUT or FUE, I think I will choose FUE.

[Hair4Days]

2 hours ago, Rossybop said:

Guys I'm grateful for your input. This is giving me optimism. Thanks for dropping by to leave your comments.

James C I'm really only looking to cover the hairline; mostly the corners/temporal points. There's a good bit of recession there, but there's no sign of any need for crown work and the mid scalp is reasonably good too. You say they don't often touch up previous recipient areas? That's interesting, I didn't know that. As for density packing I'd love to get a super dense hairline first time around but I believe they can only transplant so many hairs per square cm per session. My hair is straight and perhaps finer than some and I've been told this might put me more at risk of a second appointment compared to someone who has dark curley hair.

 

I’ve heard of some clinics say they can’t transplant enough hair in the first go around (on completely bald scalp) so they have to come back for added density.

But I’ve seen doctors (look up dr bloxhams YouTube channel) completely knock it out of the park with one frontal band surgery.  

[Rossybop]

1 hour ago, James C said:

I’ve heard of some clinics say they can’t transplant enough hair in the first go around (on completely bald scalp) so they have to come back for added density.

But I’ve seen doctors (look up dr bloxhams YouTube channel) completely knock it out of the park with one frontal band surgery.  

I see. I wonder why some clinics can't transplant enough hair in one go? As I said it would be great if my doctor can knock it out of the ball park in one go but I did see one post here where some chap said he didn't get great density with Dr Saifi first time around.

I know that some surgeons can knock it out in one go but I also know that some can't. I wonder why this is. Dr Anastasakis assured me that he'd nail it in one so maybe I should have gone with him, although Dr Saifi didn't tell me I'd need a second round so maybe I'll be fine. Fingers crossed anyway. Its nerve-wracking lol.

[DenverBuff1989]

10 hours ago, James C said:

Yeah bro because your first one clearly wasn’t done properly. You went back for 500 free grafts. That doesn’t really count as needing a “second HT”.. if they packed in more grafts off the jump you’d be fine after 1 and may have a different opinion. I’ve seen so many cases of guys having one 3k graft case blasting the entire frontal half of the scalp with good density

@James C I see you haven't even had 1 hair transplant yet, really easy to judge before you've begun the journey. As a NW6 I am absolutely certain you would need multiple hair transplants if you decide to go the hair transplant route. And even then a doctor may only be able to bring you to a NW 3. IMHO you may want to just avoid the stress, obsession, and expense and wear a wig.

There is a reason so many balding guys just say f*ck it and surrender and shave it all off. The hair transplant cycle can easily consume your life. 

And yes, absolutely and with transparency I am fine to admit my 1st HT was not good at all, and did necessitate a 2nd surgery. But even so, even with good docs, its rare for 1 HT to be absolutely perfect. Sure, a lot of guys are good with just 1 HT, but even that 1 HT may not be perfect, but is passable and acceptable. 

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by DenverBuff1989

[Hair4Days]

47 minutes ago, DenverBuff1989 said:

@James C I see you haven't even had 1 hair transplant yet, really easy to judge before you've begun the journey. As a NW6 I am absolutely certain you would need multiple hair transplants if you decide to go the hair transplant route. And even then a doctor may only be able to bring you to a NW 3. IMHO you may want to just avoid the stress, obsession, and expense and wear a wig.

There is a reason so many balding guys just say f*ck it and surrender and shave it all off. The hair transplant cycle can easily consume your life. 

And yes, absolutely and with transparency I am fine to admit my 1st HT was not good at all, and did necessitate a 2nd surgery. But even so, even with good docs, its rare for 1 HT to be absolutely perfect. Sure, a lot of guys are good with just 1 HT, but even that 1 HT may not be perfect, but is passable and acceptable. 

 

For starters, I’m 28, currently a nw 3 and will happily admit I’m genetically likely on my way to a nw6 as a worst scenario with no medication.. so no i haven’t had a HT yet. But good looking out disrespecting all the advanced Nw members by recommending a wig lmao. Obviously a nw 6 would need 2-3 surgeries, that wasn’t the argument. You initially stated you had 3 surgeries already but you’re only a nw3. Not because you actually needed more density- it was more of a repair case of your first one adding additional grafts that should of been there in the first round. Lets not confuse anybody here. I’m sorry you had to go through that. Im just informing @Rossybop (who is currently also a nw3) that a skillful doctor will get enough density in the hairline region with one HT. It’s not a large area for him although they’d most likely future proof into his native miniaturized hair.

[Hair4Days]

3 hours ago, Rossybop said:

I see. I wonder why some clinics can't transplant enough hair in one go? As I said it would be great if my doctor can knock it out of the ball park in one go but I did see one post here where some chap said he didn't get great density with Dr Saifi first time around.

I know that some surgeons can knock it out in one go but I also know that some can't. I wonder why this is. Dr Anastasakis assured me that he'd nail it in one so maybe I should have gone with him, although Dr Saifi didn't tell me I'd need a second round so maybe I'll be fine. Fingers crossed anyway. Its nerve-wracking lol.

It’s Because there’s only a handful of clinics in the world that are trustworthy and skillful enough to deliver solid results. The rest are just so mediocre. But if you feel confident and you’ve seen plenty of patient examples, then go for it. I don’t think you’ll need more then one.

[smurf]

On 11/29/2020 at 5:55 PM, DenverBuff1989 said:

@Rossybop Sorry I should have clarified, my natural hairloss is a NW3, now it looks a lot better, looks like I don't have any hairloss (idk if thats a NWO or NW1)

To be fair, my 1st HT was from a bad doc, I went with a cheap doc who was local to me.  The density was poor. I made the mistake of allowing her to do a free repair job, so this was done 11 months after the 1st one. The 2nd one was not good, so the top-doc at the clinic I went to did a 3rd repair free of charge 11 months after that. I am satisfied after this 3rd HT. Its still growing in, but I expect a good result. 

Perhaps I just got unlucky with my 1st 2 HTs, but after being on here long enough it seems really common to need a repair HT. Even Melvin the moderator here has had 3 HTs. 

To be honest I'm too lazy to post pics here lol, but feel free to look at my post history. There are pics from my 1st bad HT. I finally feel good 2 yrs and 3 HTs later....but it was extremely stressful to deal with and the obsession I had about my hair increased 10x what it was before my 1st HT. 

+1

 

pay up and find a reputable doctor recomended on HRN this forum. 

 

I thank heavens i didn't go to turkey and mess up my donor. thank you!!

[Rossybop]

1 hour ago, DenverBuff1989 said:

@James C I see you haven't even had 1 hair transplant yet, really easy to judge before you've begun the journey. As a NW6 I am absolutely certain you would need multiple hair transplants if you decide to go the hair transplant route. And even then a doctor may only be able to bring you to a NW 3. IMHO you may want to just avoid the stress, obsession, and expense and wear a wig.

There is a reason so many balding guys just say f*ck it and surrender and shave it all off. The hair transplant cycle can easily consume your life. 

And yes, absolutely and with transparency I am fine to admit my 1st HT was not good at all, and did necessitate a 2nd surgery. But even so, even with good docs, its rare for 1 HT to be absolutely perfect. Sure, a lot of guys are good with just 1 HT, but even that 1 HT may not be perfect, but is passable and acceptable. 

 

I concur with what James C has just said. I think you might have misinterpreted him. He wasn't meaning to offend you or anyone else here, we're all here to support each other. You did say though that you had three transplants because the first two were performed by a substandard doctor, and it sounds like one, or maybe two, would have sufficed if you went to a world class surgeon first time around. Of course a NW5 or NW6 will require more than one surgery, and many people need touch ups every few years, but what we're talking about here is whether or not I'll get good density in my hairline with one transplant. James C is of the belief that I might get it nailed on one go, and you are of the belief that I might need a touch up next year. I appreciate both of your opinions, and I like to hear as many viewpoints as possible.

James C you have referred to me as a NW3! Be careful there buddy, I'm only a NW2. Surely I'm not that bald 😂 Just kidding lol!

[Hair4Days]

Hahaha my apologies brother! Hey at nw2 we can also make the argument that you may even have some years before you even jump in! 
 

& very well said on your comment above. You nailed it. 

[Rossybop]

4 minutes ago, James C said:

It’s Because there’s only a handful of clinics in the world that are trustworthy and skillful enough to deliver solid results. The rest are just so mediocre. But if you feel confident and you’ve seen plenty of patient examples, then go for it. I don’t think you’ll need more then one.

Wow! Is that true? Its a totally crazy minefield isn't it!

I live in Ireland so I was looking around Europe more than anywhere else. Bisanga in Belgium was probably the best I've seen but he was a bit too pricey at €10,000 or thereabouts. Eventually I whittled it down to Dr Anastasakis in Greece and Dr Saifi in Poland. Both seem to have impressive credentials, generally good results, mostly satisfied clients, ethical honesty and so on. It was an extremely tough choice picking one over the other. They are both similar enough in price. In the end I picked Dr Saifi because a lot of people here seem to speak well of him, and he also seems to be familiar with fair-skinned, fair haired Europeans like myself. I did find one guy who didn't get great density in a hairline job but he was much older (late 40's) and the texture of his hair was a bit thin behind the hairline anyway so it might have been done on purpose. That was one result that made me think I might need a touch up in 6-12 months. 

[Rossybop]

6 minutes ago, James C said:

Hahaha my apologies brother! Hey at nw2 we can also make the argument that you may even have some years before you even jump in! 
 

& very well said on your comment above. You nailed it. 

Ok I'll admit it, I'm probably skirting the edge of a NW3 so I'm ready to get stuck in 😂 I'm actually due to be treated next week (Dec 10th). Its scary!

[Hair4Days]

1 minute ago, Rossybop said:

Ok I'll admit it, I'm probably skirting the edge of a NW3 so I'm ready to get stuck in 😂 I'm actually due to be treated next week (Dec 10th). Its scary!

Best of luck to you man. I pray you get the results we all deserve. 

on a side note. I see the rest of your hair is super thick so that’s a plus, you might never need any more surgery. A lot of clinics here in the states push for us to go FUT first to max out the donor if you’re likely to continue balding - which  hopefully doesn’t seem to be the case for you 

[Britanium]

4 minutes ago, Rossybop said:

Ok I'll admit it, I'm probably skirting the edge of a NW3 so I'm ready to get stuck in 😂 I'm actually due to be treated next week (Dec 10th). Its scary!

Good luck 🤞 look forward to seeing your ht journey 🤩

[Rossybop]

11 minutes ago, James C said:

Best of luck to you man. I pray you get the results we all deserve. 

on a side note. I see the rest of your hair is super thick so that’s a plus, you might never need any more surgery. A lot of clinics here in the states push for us to go FUT first to max out the donor if you’re likely to continue balding - which  hopefully doesn’t seem to be the case for you 

Thanks a million bro. I wish you the best of luck on your own hair loss journey too.

Some of the hair can look thick from a certain angle, with a certain light the mid scalp can be a bit thinner though, but I think I'm progressing slow. The corners went pretty fast about 11/12 years ago. Then there seemed to be a bit more recession maybe 6 years ago. There hasn't been much of a change in the last 3 years though, so maybe I get it in waves every few years. I'm definitely still shedding but I don't seem to be on the way to a NW7 just yet. I'm hoping if I start using Regaine and keep using finasteride that I will get good mileage out of a hair transplant.

Dr Saifi is letting me pick whether I want FUE or FUT. When he does FUE he actually leaves a strip of skin across the side and back untouched so that it can be easily reached for FUT if you want to use it at a later date. Most of the doctors that I've contacted have reccomended FUE. HRBR in Ireland sometimes suggest FUE first and FUT later on in life.

Its hard to pick between FUE and FUT too. FUT is attractive because of the higher yield, but FUE is meant to be more efficient for hairlines because the doctor can cherry pick the follicles that best fit the hairline.

On the bright side my donor is good and thick.

[Rossybop]

20 minutes ago, JohnAC71 said:

Good luck 🤞 look forward to seeing your ht journey 🤩

Thanks a million buddy. I will post some stuff here to give you an overview of everything. 9 - 12 months down the line I'll write a fully detailed article on my website/blog documenting my entire hair loss journey and I will share that article here 😊

[Britanium]

That is a very good approach by Dr Saifi. I started out with a high Norwood already so I knew I had to go FUT and then FUE. 
For you though it’s possible you could maintain what you have and not need FUT. I would go FUE and you then have the luxury of cutting your hair as short as you want. 

[Rossybop]

41 minutes ago, JohnAC71 said:

That is a very good approach by Dr Saifi. I started out with a high Norwood already so I knew I had to go FUT and then FUE. 
For you though it’s possible you could maintain what you have and not need FUT. I would go FUE and you then have the luxury of cutting your hair as short as you want. 

Yeah, he leaves a strip of skin untouched in most of his patients that might want to use FUT at a later date. I wonder why so many doctors have reccomended FUE for me rather than FUT, given that FUT has a higher density yield. Perhaps its because FUE gives you the flexibility of a shorter haircut.

I understand though that FUE is not entirely scar-less. Dr Anastasakis always tells his patients that FUE dots can be detected if your hair is shorter than #2. He says if FUT is done properly the hair can be worn nearly as short. HRBR in Dublin however told me that there is a chance that I would not be able to cut my hair shorter than #3 or #4 with FUT, and they are extremely skilled at FUT. They also said that with FUE if I cut my hair shorter than a #2 there is no guarantee that it will be undetectable, although they said that many of their patients can go shorter than a #2, they just couldn't guarantee it as one size does not fit all.

I have noticed that Dr Saifi is extremely skilled at stitching an FUT wound. On his best cases an FUT scar is barely detectable even with short hair. Its a hard choice picking between the two but I think FUE offers me the best risk of minimal scarring and undetectable results with a really short hair cut. Its just a bummer that the yield is lower.

[Britanium]

Long term planning is important. For you without too much hair loss FUE is absolutely the right way to go. Man I would love to get a shorter cut. I have the pleasure of both FUT and FUE scars 😂 

[Rossybop]

32 minutes ago, JohnAC71 said:

Long term planning is important. For you without too much hair loss FUE is absolutely the right way to go. Man I would love to get a shorter cut. I have the pleasure of both FUT and FUE scars 😂 

Long term planning is totally important.

Oh lovely you should wear a 0 back and sides it would look awesome lol.