FUE surgeon /can a technician do a good job ??

[robin12]

I've been given a quote for a 4500 FUE graft by this surgeon

https://www.longevita.co.uk/doctor/sevil-kara/

 

Having been recommended the company longevita by a friend who ha d a positive experience, I'm confident,

But, however, I can find no information about this person online - they are a technician rather than a doctor, so I'm asking does this matter?

 

thanks for any help you can give.

[Hassler]

This is an interesting question.

 

I'm not sure how it works in Turkey, but in the UK or US I'm fairly sure it would be illegal for a non doctor to perform a hair transplant.

 

Having undergone an FUE, one of the things that struck me is that it doesn't seem especially difficult to execute the basic procedure - but there is no doubt that its very difficult to achieve a very good result. After all, anybody could paint a ceiling, but only Michelangelo could have painted the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel like that.

 

I wouldn't think 4-5 years of medical school really means much in terms of how good a HT a doc can perform, most of them probably had little artistic/creative talent or interest in school, hardly the ideal credentials for this sort of creative work, but personally, I wouldn't go to a non-doc, even if it was legal, it's just adding additional medical risk to that is already a risky process.

[robin12]

thanks Hassler,

yes I think thats why there's so many FUE places in Turkey - you don't have to be a doc..!

[Hassler]

Gulp. The biggest drawback is that surely any numpty can setup shop as a HT surgeon overnight in Turkey. While the current crop of doctors in the US and Europe might not yield many Michelangelo's, at least the medical license restrictions keep the numpty numbers down (granted, they still exist).

 

I would research your doc (correction tech) very very carefully, if you can't find an awful lot of very very satisfied customers, and virtually no dissatisfied ones, then that's a very big gamble.

[ArochaHair]

Legally, you do have to be a doctor to perform hair restoration in Turkey, but apparently money talks not only for patients but ministry of health officials as well.

[hsrp10]

This topic often opens up a can of worms as there are some clinics where the techs do excellent work in graft placement and doing the necessary part of supporting the surgeon.

Excellent techs help to make an important part of an excellent clinic and its reputation.

 

But techs should never do the surgical work, and also techs have been known to mess up selection of follicular units for the hairline and temple points - placing multiple hair units where single units only are a must. You can search posts on here on this forum to see examples of this, including leading clinics.

 

So in a sense, asking the clinic which tech or possible techs and about their experience and training is an important part of your research and preparation.

Also ask the same question on the day of your surgery as techs can get sick or quit etc. Seriously don't forget to ask this on your day of the surgery.

 

My personal preference is to go with a doctor like Dr. Konior who does nearly all of the procedure himself for world-class results in nearly every case.

Due to cost and booking difficulties etc. this is not always possible, but in my experience has produced the most trouble free and optimal results.

[robin12]

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

[fueguy]

Interesting debate. Actually not really a debate at all.

 

Here's the only thing that matters: transection rate. That's it. Nothing else matters.

 

Doctor vs. technician is silly. Experience is what counts. It might be a blow to some doctor's egos (well most actually). But it's true.

 

Here's why. Let's say you have a surgeon who's transaction is 5%. And you have a tech with a transection rate of 4%. Both have 10 years experience.

 

Who are you going to choose?

 

It's common sense.

 

Best advice is to ask the magic number and then ask for a guarantee.

[Hassler]

Best advice is to ask the magic number and then ask for a guarantee.

 

Oh thats just genius. So we all just email every doc on the planet and ask for their transection rate?......and if the lowest quoter happens to be from a Turkish barber shop tech we just get a guarantee of their transection quote.

 

And if you go through and none of the grafts grow?.....what then?

 

You ask for your follicles back?

[Bald36]

If a technician is doing the job then why pay as if the doctor did? I think it's stupid to pay premium rates when all the doctor does is make some holes.

[quidproquo82]

Asking for a guarantee? That's really naive. Transection is a huge component, but there are a myraid of other factors that affect the survival rate.

[Hassler]

If a technician is doing the job then why pay as if the doctor did? I think it's stupid to pay premium rates when all the doctor does is make some holes.

 

Yeah man.....but why stop there? How about pilots? We could just put bus drivers on a six week conversion course for a 747 right? I mean flying a plane is so easy these days, the autopilot can even do automated take off and landings, why pay premium rate for a plane ticket when all the pilot does is hit a button and then get served coffee by trolly dollies.

 

What can possibly go wrong?

[Hassler]

Or even better.....the trolley dolly can fly the plane!

 

“Ladies and gentleman, this announcement is to let you know that Chantelle will be flying you across the Atlantic, and also serving tea, coffee and cold beer”

[fueguy]

So we all just email every doc on the planet and ask for their transection rate?

 

Hell yes! And have them put it in writing!

 

Just because someone is a "doctor" does not mean they are great at FUE. Far from it actually. Lots of other factors at play too. For example, in most of the US, doctor assistants can do the "entire procedure" from A-Z. Come on guys. You should know this.

 

I researched not only the doctor but also the "team." Technicians are key to a successful HT. It's not just about holes. FUE is so much more.

 

If your criteria is "doctor must do the holes" then you have not researched correctly.

 

You guys sound like doctors worried about job security.

[JohnCasper]

Technicians play an important part in the process but ultimately you choose the doctor/surgeon/artisan because of their experience, medical knowledge, and ability to prescribe necessary medications, etc. I know a lot of people receive transplants overseas because of the cost differential but they do experience some risks.

 

A small percentage of grafts are transected partly because of the small instrument used to remove the grafts. In my case a 0.8 mm punch was used. Good doctors count the few transections and remove more grafts to compensate for those and don’t charge you for those grafts. Also, it was important to me to know that the doctor in my case removed and implanted every graft himself. The technician played an important part in the the process but in the end...the surgeon created the masterpiece and the ultimate outcome.

[fueguy]

JohnCasper. Did you grab that from a textbook? lol

 

If you're choosing a clinic based 100% on the doctor's reputation, you're setting yourself up for failure. Technicians play much more than an important role. They can make or break the procedure. They also perform 40-60% of the procedure. Be it implanting. Or cutting. Whatever.

 

Doctors also play a role. he/she/they (whatever you are) comes up with the plan. Measures transection, gives meds, etc. but when looking at a clinic, ask about the entire team.

 

Tons of clinics actually rent technicians.

 

A small percentage of grafts are transected partly because of the small instrument used to remove the grafts.

 

It's nothing to do with the size of the punch JohnCasper. If the transection rate is high with a .8 it's because a .8 should not be used and the doctor is shitty. Hair caliber, etc. states the "size" that should be used. It's skin that decides sharp vs dull.

 

Come on man. You're a consultant??

[mattj]

I think it's pretty absurd to compare technicians to bus drivers piloting jumbo jets. Definitely a false equivalence fallacy. However, if a bus driver were to undertake the necessary training to pilot an aircraft then I wouldn't hesitate to get on their plane, for they would then be fully prepared for the role.

 

A hair transplant technician is highly trained and experienced in the role that they have in the surgery, just as any surgical technician is in any form of surgery. The bottom line is that few people on this planet will have extracted more grafts than Dr Rahal's head technician.

[Hassler]

I think the original question posed in this thread is starting to get lost somewhat. The original post was titled "can a technician do a good job?"

 

Well, the clear answer is "yes", of course they can, they have a vital role to play in supporting the surgeon and doing implantation of the grafts (no easy skill I'm sure). But should they be doing the entire procedure? Now thats another question.....

 

Leaving aside the legalities, the issue really boils down to one of trust......who would you trust to do your surgery, recognising that it is still surgery and taking into consideration what could actually go wrong. At this point it becomes subjective, and really boils down to how much risk a person is willing to take on to get a better (or realistically cheaper) hair transplant.

 

Now, I've long believed that one of the biggest problems in hair transplantation today is that doctors generally lack the artistic eye needed to achieve the best results. I recently walked around a prestigious art gallery admiring various still life paintings on oil and canvass by some of the finest Dutch masters, and it's truly incredible that they can produce something that mimics reality so closely using the basic tools of a few brushes of different thickness and a limited number of different coloured oils. In FUE, the goal is also to create something that perfectly mimics nature/reality using a collection of simple punches of different diameters, a blade, and a limited supply of materials.......but in the hands of a guy who probably went to medical school intending to be a general practitioner or hospital consultant.

 

It's certainly a fact that any kid today contemplating going to medical school, if they presented their school leaving certificate with an A* for art and design, they would simply be laughed out the building. In the future, I can see a new profession of hair transplant practitioner (they will come up with a fancy name for it) being established much more formally than it is today, with specific University courses which are based on medicine, but with focus around the specific skills of FUE and FUT, in the same way that the dentistry profession emerged from medicine long ago. Such courses will actually demand that students display a flair for artistic creativity as well as the usual science subjects required by conventional medicine.

 

Until then, we just have to try and find the Michelangelo's amongst the docs today, and hope that in the future, there are more masters out there. Some of us (like the originator of this post) may be willing to consider the risk associated with somebody who is not medically qualified, but hopefully in the future, the question posed by the originator of this thread would be as ridiculous as "should I consider having my sore tooth pulled by a barber" as was the situation faced by people hundreds of years ago.

[jjsrader]

Well,

 

Consider that Erdogan and Hasson & Wong both do FUE but their technicians are highly trained and do 100% of the surgery now (except for the incision sites). Heck, I don't even think Erdogan does all the incision sites anymore - correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Both those clinics are outside the U.S. and are considered top-tier surgery centers with very very consistent work/yields. It's more of a legal issue in the U.S. w/the doctor being involved in all aspects of the surgery.

 

But most women w/the right training and doctor supervision are better suited for the hand/eye coordination skills of thousands of repetitive tasks per day than men.

 

That being written there are great male techs as well.

 

For a hair tech it's about proper training, being naturally good at it, attention to detail, proper supervision and someone that gives a shit.

 

You won't get that in the hair mills of Turkey nor in clinics that just want to get that cash.

 

A balanced approach is best w/long-term techs that are well compensated and are naturally good at mind-numbing tasks w/a very high attention to detail.

 

Younger people tend to be better at this. Surgery is a team effort and since this is precision-based elective surgery that is HIGHLY visible everyday (vs boob jobs) it is important to choose wisely.

[fueguy]

Some good points jjsrader. I don't agree with all. Especially make vs female technicians lol. You must be conservative

 

And while H&W fue looks promising, it's not in the top percentage - yet. Though they ditched ARTAS (thankfully) and Wong is one of the best, so I expect this to change in time.

 

Couple of other points. I don't feel it boils down to trust. It boils down to research and how much you're willing to out in. I don't just mean the forums. I mean hit the ground kind of research. Meet the team, doctor, technician, ask for numbers. Ask to see trends, the data.

 

In my business i make data-driven decisions and I did the same when researching my FUE. I asked the tough questions for years and because kind of an expert. I met more than patients, i looked at numbers. One of them transection. If I found a bad result or patient complaining, I researched that. I looked at everything and suggest others do to.

 

But in the end it's still a risk. surgery is surgery but you can cover most of your bases with above.

[fueguy]

Some good points jjsrader. I don't agree with all. Especially male vs female technicians lol. You must be conservative

 

And while H&W fue looks promising, it's not in the top percentage - yet. Though they ditched ARTAS (thankfully) and Wong is one of the best, so I expect this to change in time.

 

Couple of other points. I don't feel it boils down to trust. It boils down to research and how much you're willing to out in. I don't just mean the forums. I mean hit the ground kind of research. Meet the team, doctor, technician, ask for numbers. Ask to see trends, the data.

 

In my business i make data-driven decisions and I did the same when researching my FUE. I asked the tough questions for years and because kind of an expert. I met more than patients, i looked at numbers. One of them transection. If I found a bad result or patient complaining, I researched that. I looked at everything and suggest others do to.

 

But in the end it's still a risk. surgery is surgery but you can cover most of your bases with above.

[mattj]

I think it's the case that HT surgeons start out like doctors in any other field of medicine, and that is by observing the work of those that came before them. After that, they take what they have learned and run with it. Some have what it takes to improve upon and overshadow those from whom they learned the craft while others remain merely competent. This probably has parallels in the art world.

 

Interesting comment re. women being better than men at the repetitive tasks. I'm not sure if that has any scientific basis.

[fortuneplant]

Interesting comment re. women being better than men at the repetitive tasks. I'm not sure if that has any scientific basis.

 

None at all. That myth is popular in manufacturing. The real reason for prefering women over men is that the former are more compliant & don't complain much while the latter is prone to causing troubles, say organizing labor unions.

[jjsrader]

None at all. That myth is popular in manufacturing. The real reason for prefering women over men is that the former are more compliant & don't complain much while the latter is prone to causing troubles, say organizing labor unions.

 

Baloney! Go to factories overseas where technical skill is dominated by women who are faster than men and more durable.

 

Those are the facts. Apples to apples women are much better and more durable for repetitive tasks that require dexterity because their hands are smaller.

 

Union and dispute stuff is off topic.