Senior Member KO Posted July 8, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 8, 2015 Joe, your narcissism knows no bounds. Pat and Bill have a right to be p*ssed off as you are attempting to create your own sub-group of recommended surgeons for your own financial gain and using the HRN to advertise the fact. Your replies to Bill amount to little more than: "Do you know who I am?" Not very smart really. You peddle yourself as an ethical Hair Transplant Mentor and I guess you generally are, just so long as there is a buck or a dime in it for you. Two years ago you were telling us that FUSS is the far better procedure than FUE and now that the dollar signs are flashing in front of your very eyes you have suddenly "evolved" your opinions (as you like to phrase it) of FUE and are now telling us what a fantastic procedure it is. I remember reading on your old Blog how you had attended an ISHRS 2013 conference and could not believe how average the FUE results were. That posting has strangely disappeared. We are just waiting for your next "evolution". I guess it will be that Lateral Slits are outdated and every surgeon worth their salt should be using implanter pens! This will probably be announced in tandem with your "recommendation" of Doctor Lorenzo. When will you be working for Feller/Bloxham & Lindsey as we are all on tenterhooks waiting for your recommendation of mFUE? Amazing what a bit of cash can do for one's personal evolution. As far as comparisons to Spex go, Spex is a Patient Advisor of recommended clinics and does not post here that often and doesn't promote his own website. By the way Joe, your affiliations list appears to be missing Mr Kobren. So which former member under new handle are you? 3382 FUE Lupanzula http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185463-3382-grafts-lupanzula.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Guys, For the record, I am singling out Joe simply because of this post. The policy we are working on will include members like Spex who also is acquiring his own list of recommended doctors based on whatever standards and then using this website to promote them. This is not meant to be a personal attack on Joe, although it might seem like it but what Joe's doing is a bit more obvious than Spex and as a result it has forced us to take a deeper look at our policies and developing one to account for members using our website for their own financial gain without even any reciprocity. Furthermore, joe's hidden contemptuous feelings for this community and its standards show in his initial posts. While a policy still needs to be developed, perhaps if Joe was linking back to our community on his website or even giving us some recognition in his posts instead of touting his "affiliation" as some kind of superior standard for a recommendation or "physicians he likes" perhaps my approach would have been different. The truth is, Joe's post freak of "my standards are superior to the ones on this site" which can easily be seen on his first post on this topic about whether or not Dr. Vories is good enough for him when he clearly is good enough to be recommended here. While specstronic is clearly another poster based on the name he selected and while I don't feel as strongly as him, he makes many basic points about why I'm approaching Joe with some frustration and upset. Joe's latest post only proves how juvenile he is being with words like "but you started it" which ironically isn't even true at all when you look at the hidden condescension and contemptuous view of this community in his posts. Anyway, we will continue discussing and working on a policy that puts patient first and go from there. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeTillman Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) I'm still waiting for a quote showing how I'm supposedly insulting Bill or Pat and "undermining" their credibility. I would also like clarification on the multiple statements of how I'm "asking doctors" to pay me. I expected some new posters would come out of the woodwork on this one so I'm not suprised by "Specstronic" although I do appreciate the wit. However, I'm curious to see how long the account will remain active and the post will remain on this thread since it's very existence is a violation of the TOS. You will not provide a User Submission that: - uses or attempts to use an alter-identity, secondary username, or alias to attack or harass community members. Bill acknowledges it is another user... While specstronic is clearly another poster based on the name he selected... Will there be more new posters slinging mud? If so, will they too be allowed to continue? What other surprises can we expect to find in this thread? Let's not lose focus on the issue. I've played within the rules and abided by the existing Terms of Service. If there has been a request to change anything about my profile or my signature or anything else deemed to be outside of what is considered to be acceptable, I complied without complaint. My current position in this industry is not sudden as I've been clear about my affiliations for two and a half months, since I first announced my "affilation" with Dr. Karadeniz. but suddenly I'm now being "contemptuous" and I'm "not contributing". My list of affiliations was made in the interest of transparency yet somehow this is being looked upon as nothing more than advertising. I can remove my signature and I can refrain from making any announcements of affiliations but then I'd be in violation of the TOS which states that everyone has to reveal if they have a professional relationship within the industry. I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. Had this been about me repping doctors that are not listed on this site, then I would absoltutely understand the "concern". I am currently discussing an affiliation with a doctor in Europe that is not listed here and I would not pretend to be able to advertise anything with him on this site due to his lack of presence here but the doctors I am currently engaged with ARE listed here and what this attack on me and my reputation represents is the idea that somehow HRN doctors can be told how to spend their money and whom they can associate with. And that is what this comes down to, control. I've played within the established guidelines yet I'm not only being singled out, as Bill put it, but I'm being smeared. What is sad about all of this is that Bill and I had an open line of communication for many years and I just can't wrap my head around how this has unfolded. A call, a private message, an email to ask me questions or to express concern would have been nice but instead Bill has resorted to a publc smear campaign along with false comments. If I ever have a problem with someone I have a long relationship with, one that spans over ten years, and I need to speak to them about it then I man up and pick up the phone. I don't try to make them look bad and make up stories about them in a public setting. As for how to move forward, Pat, Dave Blake and I are in the process of discussing this. I ask that Blake be removed from such discussions as it is an ethical conflict of interest for a doctor that has a partnership in a clinic paying money to this site to be involved in policy making decisions that involve the general community, not to mention competing clinics and those they choose to have finanical affiliations with. Ultimately, there is nothing that I or anyone else can do about this. I mean, no where can anyone say I've broken any rules to the point that such treatment is deserved so all we can do is wait to see where the goal posts will be moved to accomodate what should be embraced as simply great content. Edited July 8, 2015 by JoeTillman spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ontop Posted July 8, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 8, 2015 So which former member under new handle are you? KO ...Good call and being Bill thinks hes so good at catching trolls maybe he can look into this suspect I.P address but we wil never know because this so called new member havent got the guts to come on and post under there first handle because i feel its somebody whos playing one against the other or has a agenda, who knows it could be somebody within the network again we will never know. so in my eyes his post means Jack Sxxx to me. Makes me wonder what is going on here. is this a witch hunt for Jeo Tillman? did he step on someones toes without asking for consent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 8, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 8, 2015 Bill, Just wanted to point out that I myself utilized Joe's mentoring services to decide between various surgeons I was considering. At no point in time did he even try to sell me on the surgeon he is "affiliated" with. He actually advised me, that based on my own facts and circumstances, Dr Ron Shapiro would be the best surgeon for me in his opinion. It was especially surprising seeing that Dr Ron is a competitor of his old bosses. To the best of my knowledge, Joe does not get any form of compensation from Dr Ron Shapiro, so although its still a weird concept to me as to what his affiliation really means, I don't get the impression that those surgeons that are paying him are necessarily his "go to" list of recommended surgeons, just surgeons that are paying him to video tape and make mention of. I can also send you the e-mail correspondence I got from Joe if you need evidence. To date I have not seen any post on this forum where Joe specifically advises a poster to chose or consider his affiliated surgeon. In contrast, I have seen Spex advise posters to consider one of the surgeons he respresents - i.e. he recently advised a poster to consider using Dr Lindsay, and recently another post advising on Dr Feriduni. I could be totally off the mark on this - but just my own experience with Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Sean Posted July 8, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 8, 2015 Joe, your narcissism knows no bounds. Pat and Bill have a right to be p*ssed off as you are attempting to create your own sub-group of recommended surgeons for your own financial gain and using the HRN to advertise the fact. Your replies to Bill amount to little more than: "Do you know who I am?" Not very smart really. You peddle yourself as an ethical Hair Transplant Mentor and I guess you generally are, just so long as there is a buck or a dime in it for you. Two years ago you were telling us that FUSS is the far better procedure than FUE and now that the dollar signs are flashing in front of your very eyes you have suddenly "evolved" your opinions (as you like to phrase it) of FUE and are now telling us what a fantastic procedure it is. I remember reading on your old Blog how you had attended an ISHRS 2013 conference and could not believe how average the FUE results were. That posting has strangely disappeared. We are just waiting for your next "evolution". I guess it will be that Lateral Slits are outdated and every surgeon worth their salt should be using implanter pens! This will probably be announced in tandem with your "recommendation" of Doctor Lorenzo. When will you be working for Feller/Bloxham & Lindsey as we are all on tenterhooks waiting for your recommendation of mFUE? Amazing what a bit of cash can do for one's personal evolution. As far as comparisons to Spex go, Spex is a Patient Advisor of recommended clinics and does not post here that often and doesn't promote his own website. By the way Joe, your affiliations list appears to be missing Mr Kobren. Lol at "specstronix". Had to just pop up and signed up a few hours ago to bash Joe and from "Afghanistan" and so forth. It is a suspicious user that could be the type instigating all of this mess. You know one of the "concerned" people privately messaging the mods. Or it can be a butthurt doc or affiliate of that doc etc. Spectronix, are you one of the hidden folks that pm mods to have a doctor approved when active posting members of the community object? http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/178341-potential-recommendation-dr-kapil-dua-india.html Spectronix, you do realize that Joe has actually met thousands of patients face to face(even called,chatted,cam), consulted for docs, advised docs on how to take care of patients, how to use or consider tools for efficiency, calculate feasible rates, and a lot of other analytical things, offering one of a kind videos and experiences, aside from money other things. He certainly does have a strong hairloss celebrity status, so much so, that even some of my balding military buddies even knew about him, surprisingly, without me bringing his name to the conversation. He also liases between patients that may have concerns between doctors and does not hammer patients but understands to help mitigate issues and concerns. Spectronix, i really think joe has a different approach and is not the person you are claiming he is. He is out to help folks and is emotional and passionate about it. You can catch him on skype for support and he offers that unique thing too. I dont see other places complaining about him because i guess they are probably not getting your hunting pms or those mods are ignoring those pms as they know by now he is an asset that has built a reputation as a patient advocate and mentor. Spectronix, I think it would be professional if you at least reveal yourself online to a person you are attacking. Reveal your real name and identity as Joe has revealed his real name and you know who he is. Dont hide. This is a method used by another doc to make things fair here: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/179786-fut-more-popular-than-fue-19.html Specstronix, if you have issues with Joe, then talk it out with him. I do not know how he can't be an asset to the forums. By using media (TV,radio,etc,) he actually has brought folks to the forums, thus increasing their popularity and possibly profits. Joe, you are a nice guy, but there may be folks or clinics with more power/connections more than others recommended, and unfortunately, the folks that are privately messaging to mods and are attacking you, could very well be the same ones attacking other recommended docs questioning their techniques in this community as well. Either if it is through public rants or private. This is tragic, but i think there are people out there wanting to break relationships for their own marketing+business goals/agendas. People that may try to cause an issue with you and this network, where you have given tons of advice and helped countless sufferers. I really think you are genuinely trying to help. I for one know that you didnt try to sell me any doc, that's what real mentoring is about. Hope things resolve soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member win200 Posted July 8, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 8, 2015 Terms of Use guidelines for folks like Joe and Spex are Bill/Pat's business, but I just have to say something quickly about Joe. He deserves compensation for his time like anyone, but he has also been incredibly generous with his time and knowledge on a gratis basis. Joe has met with me to take a look at my transplant for absolutely nothing, and he's given me practical and realistic advice that included recommendations and kind words for doctors with whom he was not affiliated. I've known Joe for roughly two years now and sought his opinion frequently. He has always readily provided it and never asked for a dime. The notion that he is simply a hired gun looking out for number one couldn't be further from the truth. He's an asset to the hair restoration community, and there are tons of guys who would be walking around with hatchet jobs attached to their scalps if it weren't for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Look Joe, go back and read your posts and you will see where you have implied that your credentials and methods are superior to ours when considering doctors for recommendation. My comments also have nothing to do with whether or not you are qualified. I'm simply pointing out the fact that you are asking physicians recommended by this community to pay you money for services we already provide them for no additional cost to them. So instead of using your own website, which has virtually no online visibility or rankings, you are using our discussion forum to make money wow undermining our efforts by implying that you were "affiliations" are superior to our recommendations. Look at how you explain and introduce Dr. Vories on this topic. Members of this community already know he's been approved here, and you make it sound like you had to do your own investigation to make sure he is good enough to affiliate with you. I have no problem with anybody making money for ethical work, but using our community to monetize your efforts while undermining ours is inappropriate and unethical. Frankly, you should have asked either Pat or myself whether or not we felt it was appropriate for you to use our discussion forum to create business for yourself. If Pat and I did agree, we certainly would've had you gone about presenting your affiliate differently especially since you are implying that your methods of prescreening physicians for your own list are superior to ours. Joe, you first made this public in your approach to presenting doctors for affiliation with you. You may think I called you out publicly first, but your approach to affiliating doctors with yourself undermine our efforts by implying that your methods are superior for the reasons I've already pointed out. Once again, we will continue discussing this to come up with a policy on how to handle this situation. Regards, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member irishsailor Posted July 8, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 8, 2015 Bill, I have total respect for both you and joe. But might it not be in the best interest of the forum, to block this thread until the relevant actions have been taken, to deal with updating the policy, then the thread can be reopened and we can carry on the discussion . Hair Transplant Dr Feller Oct 2011 Hair Transplant Dr Lorenzo June 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member RecedingTide Posted July 8, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 8, 2015 I kind of appreciate the transparency but this looks like amateur hour with this discussion being carried out on a public forum. Someone pick up the phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thincity Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I haven't posted here in a long while, and did very little of it. I do read most of the various forums frequently. I have no personal affiliation with Joe, but I did seek his advice on a second opinion. I had a successful procedure with Dr. Ron Shapiro almost three years ago, and it was a repair. My full face photo's are around if you look using this same handle. I have one scar that is bad, in that it is "stacked" which makes it look very large. I was scheduled for a scar revision and some additional work with Dr. Ron in January, but due to health issues had to cancel. I decided to seek another opinion on the scar, as I had time. Joe spent time with me on the phone, and emails offering his opinions. The Doctor that I was considering for the scar issue is not affiliated with Joe, nor did he really recommend him (he is recommended here). The point I'm trying to make is Joe was giving me an unbiased opinion, for FREE, on his time and dime. I have no skin in any of this, I'm just trying to do what is best for me, and Joe helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ontop Posted July 8, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 8, 2015 I think joe & Bill put themselfs in a no Win situation & if I was Joe Tillman knowing my background 8 would just move on & set my own shop up & be done with this crap. Obvious joe you pissed Bill off as he's thinking your taking away from his empire in a sneaky way because that's what he is saying let's call a spade a spade here they feel threatend by you. Well joe you can't change there minds nor would you want to so now just move on get your own shop your bigger than that & have tons to offer with a lot of contacts who respect you. Your well known / respected worldwide there is no reason why you want to be part of this forum other than simply HELP people out & that's what you have done on your own time & dime for a long, long time. If you ever decide to go alone joe ill be the first to sign up. I think its horrible the way Bill has put this on the forum, he of all people should have lead the way & made contact with you & talk one on one as you proberly be doing for the last 10 plus yrs. Makes me sad that it came down to the almighty $ ....I thought this forum was for only hairloss suffers. I just want to say before this thread will be closed because that's history shows that's Bills way, lock it down & the problem will go off to the sun set.... Bill it don't work like that buddy, people are not brainless, they can see what is what. My comments is with respect to Joe & Bill....I sure hope you guys can sort this out. Have a good day all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member tommygun Posted July 8, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted July 8, 2015 Maybe Joe is starting to like FUE too much??? We all know what happens when you don't beat that FUT drum like certain recommended doctors/moderators around these parts. Kidding.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairtoday-gonetomorrow Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I have been an avid reader of this forum for awhile now. I would like to thank everyone involved as I have learned so much in the past four or five months. It is a great resource for hair loss sufferers. I am considering a hair transplant and have narrowed my potential doctors down to four. This is my first time posting. I just wanted to share my experience with Joe Tillman. I contacted Joe for his free second opinion service on the recommendations I was given by the four doctors I am considering. Joe promptly responded to my e-mail with a detailed response. I sent a follow up e-mail asking Joe a ton of questions. Joe again responded promptly and offered to talk to me on the phone to help answer my questions the same night. Joe gave me his honest opinion of the four HRN recommended doctors I am considering and didn't even mention once that I should consider Dr. Karadeniz who was the only doctor he was affiliated with at the time. Joe talked to me for about an hour and answered all the questions I had. I sought Joe's opinion because of his vast experience in the industry. Joe spent a lot of his time helping me and answering my questions and expected nothing in return. I greatly appreciated that Joe offered his time and advice free of charge. I just hope that Joe continues to mentor hair loss sufferers as I believe that he first and foremost is out to help us follicular challenged individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Pat - Community Publisher Posted July 9, 2015 Administrators Share Posted July 9, 2015 It pains me to read this topic. I remember when this community was begun by me in the late 90's when there was much need for improved techniques, accountability and transparency. Thanks to the vast compassion and sharing of thousands of patients, ethical and skilled physicians and staff and dedicated patient advocates like Joe, Bill and many many others this community established the highest standards in hair restoration and helped thousands of patients distinguish between hype and real patient satisfaction. Together with physicians committed to the very best care we all collectively raised the standards for care and online accountability. Some physicians who received poor reviews or who had their recommendation suspended sued us to either have the poor reviews under the rug or to be reinstated. As a community we held together and stood behind the right of patients to make critical posts when genuine and we prevailed every time in over 13 major law suits over 15 years that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. All for the right of "free" speech and transparency. So I believe in the right of free speech when it is genuine and will fight for it. I believe everyone has a right to their genuine opinions on treatments and physicians. I also believe in reciprocity and working together in cooperation. Joe has benefited from his association with this community as we have from his involvement. Yet on his website where he discusses forums he makes no reference to this forum community nor does he provide a link to it for the benefit of any visitors on his site. Why? We've worked for years to establish a community where only physicians who have been reviewed and screened are formally promoted to the public. In resoproclty to meet our expenses ranging from defending patient free speech, numerous conferences, over 50 visits to leading clinics world wide to document surgeries, technical programing, servers etc etc we do require these clinics to pay a sponsorship fee that is affordable relative to the benefits to them and their patients. This has worked well for patients and leading physicians for well over a decade and saved clinics vast amounts in advertising expenses. Ideally I would like to see us all work cooperatively to provide the very best resources and recommendations. I know that with techniques and physicians changing that researching and presenting the very best is a constant process. I would like to improve this process. I will soon be reaching out to this community to enlist knowledgeable help with this process and in providing additional patient support. Those who do help us improve our recommendations and services will be generously rewarded. Running this community is a big job and we could use more dedicated help. I welcome this community's input on how we can work together to make this community optimal for all. Those who have an interest in such work are welcome to email me directly at pat@mediavisionsonline.com and let me know how you can make this community better, part time or full time. Let's move past division and work together synergistically for the greater good of patients and the clinics who are committed to giving them the very best. There is plenty of to go around, including the work, if we pull together to build on what has already been built with this community. Onwards and Upwards, Patrick Hennessey (the original "Recovering Bald Guy" :-) Never Forget - It's what radiates from within, not from your skin, that really matters! My Hair Loss Blog Sharing is what keeps this community vital. Please join in. To learn how I restored my hair and started this community, click here. Follow our Community on Twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Pat - Community Publisher Posted July 9, 2015 Administrators Share Posted July 9, 2015 P.S. I intend to contact Joe directly to determine his future involvement with this community. Never Forget - It's what radiates from within, not from your skin, that really matters! My Hair Loss Blog Sharing is what keeps this community vital. Please join in. To learn how I restored my hair and started this community, click here. Follow our Community on Twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ontop Posted July 9, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 9, 2015 Thank you Pat for your post I'm sure you give us all food for thought. Would like to run something by you & the forum if I may. Is it possible you could hire Joe Tillman as a Agent for this Forum? I mean obvious he knows this business as we all agree , he could be used in such a way it will help this forum, clinics & the hairloss business as a whole, he could travel to different clinics to show people how things are just like his Turkey trip. That's if Joe would be open to such that could work & work well for everybody. Pat we need people like Joe Tillman, don't run off a Golden egg please. Have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 9, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 9, 2015 Thank you Pat for your post I'm sure you give us all food for thought. Would like to run something by you & the forum if I may. Is it possible you could hire Joe Tillman as a Agent for this Forum? I mean obvious he knows this business as we all agree , he could be used in such a way it will help this forum, clinics & the hairloss business as a whole, he could travel to different clinics to show people how things are just like his Turkey trip. That's if Joe would be open to such that could work & work well for everybody. Pat we need people like Joe Tillman, don't run off a Golden egg please. Have a good day. Agreed - would hate to see Joe banished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Michael Vories, MD Posted July 9, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted July 9, 2015 Although I do not want to wade into this debate, I need to mention that Joe has been involved in many areas of my clinic, including office staffing and management. I believe it is not correct to assume that the services provided by the HTN (which have been many and I am grateful), are the same as the services Joe has supplied to my clinic. Dr. Mike Vories is recommended on the Hair Transplant Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Ali Emre Karadeniz Posted July 9, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 9, 2015 I agree with Dr. Vories. I also would not want to be involved in a debate here, but I will share my experience, how I got to know Joe and what kind of relationship we have, so members can judge for their selves. It has been a little over 6 months that I became active on HRN. At first, I was kind of naive and got involved in a lot of discussions. I thought that discussions were all genuine and they were intended to share experiences and opinions. It quickly became evident to me that there were a lot of hidden reps/trolls that were acting according to an agenda. I was attacked and bashed by these members after sharing what I see and think about technician-only clinics in Turkey. I was even contacted directly and threatened by these clinics. To the credit of this forum, most of these trolls were banned later on. But I had learned my lesson and became a quite surgeon just like many others; just sharing patient examples. The simple fact that surgeons are on with their names and members being anonymous makes it impossible to be active without being hit by trolls. Shortly after, I saw Joe's announcement that he became independent. I did not know him up to that point. I called him, introduced myself and told him I would like to ask him some questions about how things work in the hair transplant industry. Our conversation quickly led to a friendship and then a partnership which we called 'online reputation management'. Now, this is a service offered by no one in the world that I know. I doubt if anybody could, because this is not a typical thing like having a representative or a marketing manager. It is a much broader term, which may include online image, medical ethics, patient service and care, relationships with other clinics, documentation of work and so on. Please keep in mind that most of these things are not even written in our agreement; these are services that Joe would provide voluntarily. On the other hand, the service does not include recruiting new patients or advising all patients to come to me. I have not had a single patient come to me this way and I don't expect Joe to find me patients. It is evident that the online environment today for hair transplant candidates and surgeons are forums. However, the way surgeons use forums need to managed professionally, or they may result in more damage than benefits. We do witness surgeons getting into trouble because of not managing their online reputation professionally. Forums make money by charging surgeons for listing. Good quality forums like HRN have a screening system, however even then there are too many surgeons listed that makes it impossible to give an advisory service for each clinic. Very close competitors of each clinic are listed, so we can't expect to get advice from a forum, the way Joe can give, who does not take on close competitors which would prevent him from being productive. As a surgeon, I appreciate the value of HTN, the screening process it uses for surgeons, the services it provides and its culture for free speech. However, it is clear to me that I benefit from Joe's advices too, which I see as a totally different service than I get from forums. Ali Emre Karadeniz, MD (Dr. K) AEK Hair Institute Istanbul, Turkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ontop Posted July 9, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 9, 2015 well said Dr K & Dr V If i was a HT Surgen having somebody like Joe in my corner would be such a great asset to any Clinic, to deal with Forums such as this. Drs really havent the time for all this and dealing with certain members who just want to come on here to simply bash a Dr is un called for more often. how many times have we seen this over the years? There is only so much this forum can do to protect Drs and members without seemed to be bias towards one or the other. Im all about freedom of speach but sometimes Members & Drs get to emotionally involved thats not a bad thing but at least try to be respectful to each other and when emotions run high on a certain topic again there is only so much this forum can do appart to ban one or there other which this forum just dont like to do. Joe is somebody who can bridge the gap between the Dr and this forum and help advise Clinics over and above what this Forum can offer. again i sure hope you guys can work these kinks out after all these yrs you been working alongside each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeTillman Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'd like to apologize to Dr. Vories, and Dr. Karadeniz, for this becoming such an issue that they felt compelled to discuss our respective relationships. It should not have been necessary. However, I hope this settles the issue, whatever the issue was. Thank you to Dr. Vories and to Dr. Karadeniz for sharing your time and your thoughts. Pat, It is good to see you back. You've not posted in a very long time. I'm glad that you too have stepped in to give some sense to this thread. To address the issue of my "forum", if you take a second to look at it (as that is all it would take) you'll see it isn't a forum. It is a venue for people to ask questions directly of me, publicly, so that others may benefit. There is no option to start new topics outside of the scope of what the "forum" is intended to be. It does not see much activity because most people prefer to contact me privately, which is fine. Regardless, you have a policy of not allowing third party links and I was asked to remove any links from my profile so what legitimate reason do you have to question why there is or is not a link on my "forum" that points back here? I contribute solid content to this website (more so than on other forums I might add) which is worth far more than any link exchange, especially with the latest Google algorithm updates. Links do not matter nearly as much as they used to because content is king. Despite the policy of this website to not allow third party links I still have a link to this website which is placed in the section about my history. It's positioning is more relevant than a link placed out of context. P.S. I intend to contact Joe directly to determine his future involvement with this community. I welcome the contact however I don't understand the purpose at this point. My future involvement should be no different than it is at this moment or as it has been for the past thirteen and a half years. I post to give my opinions and to answer questions. The only difference is that if I answer questions about a doctor I'm working with it will not be as their consultant. I will also continue to challenge doctors that present incomplete points of view or views I disagree with as this only helps to serve the community better. It provides invaluable content for your marketing and SEO purposes and it helps to educate the community as a whole. You win, your readers win. Done. Furthermore, both doctors that I currently work with have dismantled Bill's accusations about what it is that I do so there can be no further legitimate discussion about my work being a "duplication" of his own or anyone else that works for this community. I am not working exclusively with HRN doctors so it cannot be said that I am piggy backing off of your screening process either as I am currently screening a doctor in Europe that is not listed here. The two doctors I currently work with are members here by coincidence. For me to do otherwise would be disrespectful of your process. If I accept this doctor he will not be mentioned by me on this website as a courtesy unless of course he himself comes on board as a member. Once (or if, it is still yet undetermined) you see his profile page on my website then you are welcome to approach him for membership, as would be your right. Therefore any policy changes that are being discussed between you, Bill, Dr. Bloxham and David are irrelevant to what I do and unnecessary. Finally, there are two issues I think should be addressed. First is that of the poster "spectstronic". Bill has acknowledged that this account is that of another poster... While specstronic is clearly another poster based on the name he selected... The creation of the "specstronic" account is a violation of your TOS and a smear on a thread about Dr. Vories. I respectfully ask that you remove the post and close the account. To leave it in place under the guise of "free speech" would tarnish the very essence of free speech as it is nothing short of free speech exploitation by whomever created and used the account. I suspect that more mystery accounts will appear to continue the smear campaign but of course you can deal with those as you see fit. It's your site. The second issue is Bill. I believe that Bill was out of line by calling me out and smearing my character on a thread about Dr. Vories. If he felt insulted or hurt he shouldn't have started the mudslinging to begin with but it was not my intention to hurt his feelings. It is clear that the public dispaly he put on was designed to shame me somehow regarding his "concerns". I can handle it as it doesn't affect me personally but I do strongly feel that Bill should publicly apologize to Dr. Vories. This is a thread about Dr. Vories and not so much about me and whatever problem Bill has with me should have been taken up privately but unfortunately Dr. Vories (and Dr. K respectively) had to take time out of their own schedules to address the "issue" that Bill has with me. To discuss or debate this will only contribute further to tarnishing Dr. Vories's good name so let's move on. I wish to return to posting and sharing information. Have a great day and when I pass through Ashville on July 23rd or 24th maybe we can have a beer together at Barley's Taproom downtown (if your'e in the area) All the best, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 9, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 9, 2015 Very close competitors of each clinic are listed, so we can't expect to get advice from a forum, the way Joe can give, who does not take on close competitors which would prevent him from being productive. . You lost me at this part? "who does not take on close competitors which would prevent him from being productive" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeTillman Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 You lost me at this part? "who does not take on close competitors which would prevent him from being productive" I don't. If I took on too many clinics in one geographic region then my input on local marketing strategies could potentially be viewed as "compromised" by the presence of another client clinic right next door, so to speak. Besides, I'm a one man show, so I can't handle multiple dozens of clinics with what I do. I can only handle a relative handful in comparison because of the involvement I have with each clinic so it is better for me and better for my affiliates for me to spread out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member LondonHTseeker Posted July 9, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 9, 2015 Lol. The plot thickens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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