Hair Transplant Mentor™ and Dr. Michael Vories

[JoeTillman]

As of July 1, 2015 I will be affiliated with Dr. Michael Vories and Carolina Hair Surgery in Charleston, South Carolina USA. I’m exited to be working with Dr. Vories, both publicly and behind the scenes, as I feel he has a lot of potential especially in the North American market. Having just returned from Istanbul where I participated in the 3rd Annual Mediterranean Workshop at the kind invitation of Dr. Koray Erdogan I was able to watch Dr. Jose Lorenzo at work, again, working his magic on a lucky patient. Dr. Vories trained with Dr. Lorenzo a few years ago and, like Dr. Lorenzo, Dr. Vories uses Hans Lion implanter pens for his placement. Dr. Vories performs each procedure himself, from beginning to end starting with extractions and finishing with placement of each and every graft. As far as we know, he is the only such doctor in North America that is involved so much in each of his surgeries.

 

We started to chat a few weeks ago as I contacted him so I could learn more about his practice. With my Hair Transplant Mentor website I get questions about lots of different doctors and with Dr. Vories the inquiries were increasing. I felt it was only fair to call him up and get the scoop because I can’t discuss the man or his techniques unless I find out for myself. After we talked the subject of collaboration emerged and the rest is history. I’ve spoken to Dr. Vories not just about his surgical details but also about his patient care and follow up. I asked a lot of tough questions and based on what I’ve learned I think Dr. Vories is worth considering for hair transplant surgery, FUE style.

 

Near the end of the month I’ll be traveling to Charleston, South Carolina to review Dr. Michael Vories and his clinic. Like Dr. Karadeniz before him, it is quite brave to agree to an announcement BEFORE my review because ultimately it could backfire on him if I don’t like what I see but this tells me he’s confident in his clinic and from what I’ve seen so far, I am too. And yes, I’ll be filming my journey the whole way, boiled peanuts (Southern style) and all☺

 

Stay tuned!

[ontop]

Joe,

 

Thats great news as Dr Vories is very much leading the way in FUE in the US as far im concerned .

He seems to be very much hands on but there again he has to be doing FUE in the US but this last year or so as you know ive been watching him closely & his work is just getting better everytime i see his former Pts.

 

Happy for you both you make a good team,

 

good luck to you both.

[JoeTillman]

Thank you Ontop. I appreciate the support. I may wind up in his Charlotte office in North Carolina, not Charleston, South Carolina but regardless, the travel will be documented just the same.

[Cant decide]

Well done Joe. Dr. Vories appears to be a great and affordable option for those wishing to get FUE done at a reasonable rate.

[ontop]

I may wind up in his Charlotte office in North Carolina, not Charleston, South Carolina but regardless, the travel will be documented just the same.

 

we forgive you Joe, lets put that down to lets say...JET LAG!

 

you still get your (Southern style) boiled peanuts!

[CaliHairGuy]

As far as we know, he is the only such doctor in North America that is involved so much in each of his surgeries.

 

I think you need to change this to "...he is the only such strictly FUE doctor in NA that is involved so much in each of his surgeries." I can think of at least a few FUT docs who are involved at that level.

[ontop]

Cali...

Agreed.

But the laws & politics he has no choice but to be 100% involved in the US unlike Europe / Turkey or Asia who can use techs.

[CaliHairGuy]

Cali...

Agreed.

But the laws & politics he has no choice but to be 100% involved in the US unlike Europe / Turkey or Asia who can use techs.

 

Understood. And that's a good point. Vories is strictly FUE, correct?

 

Regardless of laws, I still think that it's best practice to have the doctor being the one implanting all the grafts. That was a major factor in my HT decision.

[ontop]

Cali..

I agree it helps a great deal that's for sure...

Wish there was more out there.

[hairlosscpa]

Congrats Joe!

 

I've been in contact with Dr. Vories and his Clinic Manager. Agreed on 2500-3000 grafts FUE and 300 from the beard to conceal a relatively thin but still bothersome FUT scar. Just need to decide on the date. Haven't really seen any results over his beard extraction/BHT but I am confident in his techniques and results.

Edited July 3, 2015 by hairlosscpa

[JoeTillman]

I think you need to change this to "...he is the only such strictly FUE doctor in NA that is involved so much in each of his surgeries." I can think of at least a few FUT docs who are involved at that level.

 

Cali,

 

You are correct, but I was referring to the FUE side of things, not the FUT side of things. Like Ontop said, we'll contribute it to jetlag:)

[Bill - Seemiller]

Joe,

 

I agree with your assessment of Dr. Vories because as you can see, this community had prescreened and approved him for recommendation some time ago. I am surprised that you are only just now learning about his high standard of patient care and excellent technique especially since you've been a member of this community for over a decade and are familiar with our demanding standards for recommending physicians. You also received copies of the newsletter asking for input about his potential inclusion and the announcement that he's been approved. You can also clearly learn all about him, his background, his technique, his patient photos and more by viewing Dr. Vories recommendation profile. Thus, when you've gotten inquiries about Dr. Vories, I'm surprised you just didn't point them to our website.

 

To be honest Joe, given the hard work we do in prescreening surgeons, I don't understand what additional "review" these physicians need from you. While everyone is entitled to their opinion, you are clearly formalizing your own recommendation list. Thus, you have a responsibility to the community and to the public to be transparent about what you are doing and offering.

 

What are your "affiliation" standards and how do they differ from our demanding standards for recommendation?

What exactly does it mean for a physician to be affiliated with Joe Tillman?

What exactly are you doing for these physicians as an affiliate? Publicly and "behind the scenes" as you put it?

Are you being compensated financially or otherwise by each physician affiliated with you?

 

Frankly, I've had a number of emails from members asking what you are up to and since you have been vague about it even up to this point, I think it's time you clarify things. Don't you?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[JoeTillman]

Hi Bill,

 

No question about it, HRN does a great job prescreening doctors. I’m sure you’ve spoken to each doctor or clinic multiple times to make sure they live up to HRN standards before they’re accepted. Everyone here appreciates that, including me, but I’ve never seen anyone from HRN go into clinics with a video camera.

 

I’ve mentioned on more than one occasion what it is that I’m doing so for you to say that I've been "vague" is not entirely accurate. Maybe you just didn't see my posts in this regard but Blake also asked for clarification about three weeks ago. It is difficult to define because no one has done what I’m doing before and to say that I’m building a “recommended” list is too simplistic. My list is simply a disclosure of whom I’m working with so no one can say I’m hiding anything. Would it be fair to continue posting as I always have and not disclose that I’m affiliated with clinics that are members here? I don’t think so and I believe it is important to let people know that there is a professional relationship between me and the doctors that have enlisted my services. I’m also required to reveal this per the Terms of Use for members of HRN just like I had to during my ten years with Hasson & Wong and my tenure with Dr. Rahal and same as SL from BHR, Voxman from Darling Buds (Yay Voxman!!!), Spex from his clinics as well anyone else that has a job in this field and posts on this website.

 

What I do:

 

I’m working with clinics that are recommended here and I’m offering assistance with their online presence. The work you do is obviously thorough for pre-screening these doctors as they all obviously do very good work but few know their way around the online world so I use my experience to help them and guide them in this respect so you can refer to part of what I do as online presence management. Being an SEO or general online marketing guru is useless because I utilize my experience from posting for 13 years and working in a clinical environment for 11 years to the benefit of clinics I work with.

 

Having been on both the negative and positive sides of being a patient for 23 years and having 27 years of customer oriented sales experience means I have ideas on how patients can be better served before, during and after their procedures. From what I’ve seen most clinics have similar follow up procedures and patient care protocols but my experience tells me there is a better way and I’m also lending my input in this regard. Clinics that I work with have an open mind about how things can be better and I’m going to be helping to improve the industry by encouraging changes to how patients are looked after. No one else online has the combination of experience that I have so that is what makes me uniquely qualified to work with clinics for postive change.

 

Then there is video. I’ve started a hair transplant documentary series that started with Dr. Karadeniz and it will continue for each and every doctor that I work with including Dr. Vories. Patients want to know what it is like to go to these clinics, whether they are in their own backyard or half way around the world, so I’m showing them what to expect above and beyond that which a two-dimensional text and photo review or testimonial can give.

 

Finally, I have a separate website that is not in my signature because I’m not sure how to present it without violating the TOS so I simply state that I have an affiliation with Beauty Medical as well. That’s it; that is what I get paid to do, so far.

 

On the flip side I work with patients every day that have used my Hair Transplant Mentor toolkit and I also act as an intermediary in case of patient/clinic disputes regardless of whether or not I work with the doctor. I’m currently working with two separate clinics and patients that I have zero financial connections to but I want to help the patients find answers to their problems and I’m talking to the clinics that they went to, all free of charge.

 

Two things people should understand. Just because someone is on my “list” doesn’t mean I’m saying they are superior to any other doctor. It does mean that I like their work and they get positive recognition from me but it mainly means they have not only demonstrated the ability to perform excellent hair restoration but they have also demonstrated to me an open mind to making things better for patients and I have a LOT of ideas on how to do this and for this they get positive acknowledgement for what they do. My time is not complimentary so like you and everyone at HRN I receive a monthly retainer for my time. There has never been anything vague about this and it has been disclosed multiple times since I first started working with Dr. K. I have to make a living and this is one way in which I do this.

 

Finally, old friend, had you simply returned my phone call from June 5th you would have known all of this because this is what I wanted to speak with you about when I called and left the voice mail. If you for some reason you did not get my voice mail you have all of my contact information in which you can inquire. You have my phone number and you have my email address, as does most anyone else that has been around for a while. Anyone that is emailing you to ask about me and what I’m doing can also just as easily contact me through private message here. It is easy to do and I don’t bite.

 

I hope you're doing well and if you ever call me back we can catch up;)

Edited July 7, 2015 by JoeTillman

[Bill - Seemiller]

Joe,

 

I appreciate your explanation but frankly, it seems like you are offering our recommended physicians the same service for a large fee that we do as part of being recommended here. Per your explanation

 

"I’m working with clinics that are recommended here and I’m offering assistance with their online presence."

 

Physicians recommended by this community are welcome to contact us with any questions on how to use this community and maximize their recommendation. In fact, we have many inside resources that we provide physicians including a 35 plus page "Physicians Guidebook" on how promote their clinic on the web. We also offer personal assistance in navigating this community and the world wide web and have forum moderators who offer personal assistance to physicians and direct forum members looking for excellent surgeons to physicians recommended by this community.

 

"The work you do is obviously thorough for pre-screening these doctors as they all obviously do very good work but few know their way around the online world so I use my experience to help them and guide them in this respect so you can refer to part of what I do as online presence management."

 

Once again, we offer the very same thing to physicians recommended here for no additional fee. So I'm confused.

 

"Being an SEO or general online marketing guru is useless because I utilize my experience from posting for 13 years and working in a clinical environment for 11 years to the benefit of clinics I work with."

 

This forum community, the Hair Transplant Network and its affiliated resources are highly ranked due to massive SEO campaigns and strategies we effectively utilize every day. Why do you think it's been ranked so well and highly for over a decade?

 

"Finally, I have a separate website that is not in my signature because I’m not sure how to present it without violating the TOS so I simply state that I have an affiliation with Beauty Medical as well. That’s it; that is what I get paid to do, so far."

 

Joe, you are basically creating a list of recommendations without actually calling it that. You are calling them "Hair Transplant Doctors I Like". You also state very similarly to our site that your physicians pay a monthly retainer fee to utilize your services, which obviously includes listing them on your website.

 

I also notice you have a section on your website called "Forum". And while you claim you won't be hosting one, I don't see any links back to this forum, which is a vehicle you are using to promote your services and add revenue into your pocket. Why is that?

 

"Two things people should understand. Just because someone is on my “list” doesn’t mean I’m saying they are superior to any other doctor. It does mean that I like their work and they get positive recognition from me but it mainly means they have not only demonstrated the ability to perform excellent hair restoration but they have also demonstrated to me an open mind to making things better for patients and I have a LOT of ideas on how to do this and for this they get positive acknowledgement for what they do. "

 

This sounds very familiar. From our physician standards page,

 

"Important Note - The hair restoration physicians recommended on this site are not a definitive list of all excellent hair transplant doctors. Nor do we warranty or guaranty the results of any of the physicians presented on this site. As always, we encourage you to do your due diligence in evaluating these and all hair loss physicians"

 

My time is not complimentary so like you and everyone at HRN I receive a monthly retainer for my time. There has never been anything vague about this and it has been disclosed multiple times since I first started working with Dr. K. I have to make a living and this is one way in which I do this."

 

Once again, very familiar - from our physician standards page,

 

"How this online community is funded. Those surgeons who are carefully reviewed and chosen for recommendation on this site contribute a monthly fee to co-sponsor this online community and display their before and after photos, videos and contact information."

 

Joe, by your own admission, you are only working with physicians who are recommended by this community and then charging them a monthly retainer (higher than our sponsorship fee) to perform tasks for them on OUR community that we already offer them as part of their recommendation.

 

I understand that you want to make a living, but you are basically taking our list of recommended doctors that we've worked so hard to learn about and prescreen and then try to get them to pay you to provide them the same services we already provide for an additional fee.

 

Frankly, it's almost like you are working FOR the Hair Transplant Network yet you are actually working against this patient community by convincing a few doctors to pay more than double what they are paying now and putting that money in your own pocket rather than helping to build resources that will benefit the overall patient community. In other words, you are essentially making yourself a forum moderator and reaping all the benefits from our hard work. This puts a poor taste in my and Pat's mouth who has some very strong opinions about this as I do.

 

As for the phone call, I never received a voicemail from you. If you left one, it must have gotten lost into cellular cyber space. But we definitely need to talk more about this.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[mav23100gunther]

Joe,

 

I appreciate your explanation but frankly, it seems like you are offering our recommended physicians the same service for a large fee that we do as part of being recommended here. Per your explanation

 

"I’m working with clinics that are recommended here and I’m offering assistance with their online presence."

 

Physicians recommended by this community are welcome to contact us with any questions on how to use this community and maximize their recommendation. In fact, we have many inside resources that we provide physicians including a 35 plus page "Physicians Guidebook" on how promote their clinic on the web. We also offer personal assistance in navigating this community and the world wide web and have forum moderators who offer personal assistance to physicians and direct forum members looking for excellent surgeons to physicians recommended by this community.

 

"The work you do is obviously thorough for pre-screening these doctors as they all obviously do very good work but few know their way around the online world so I use my experience to help them and guide them in this respect so you can refer to part of what I do as online presence management."

 

Once again, we offer the very same thing to physicians recommended here for no additional fee. So I'm confused.

 

"Being an SEO or general online marketing guru is useless because I utilize my experience from posting for 13 years and working in a clinical environment for 11 years to the benefit of clinics I work with."

 

This forum community, the Hair Transplant Network and its affiliated resources are highly ranked due to massive SEO campaigns and strategies we effectively utilize every day. Why do you think it's been ranked so well and highly for over a decade?

 

"Finally, I have a separate website that is not in my signature because I’m not sure how to present it without violating the TOS so I simply state that I have an affiliation with Beauty Medical as well. That’s it; that is what I get paid to do, so far."

 

Joe, you are basically creating a list of recommendations without actually calling it that. You are calling them "Hair Transplant Doctors I Like". You also state very similarly to our site that your physicians pay a monthly retainer fee to utilize your services, which obviously includes listing them on your website.

 

I also notice you have a section on your website called "Forum". And while you claim you won't be hosting one, I don't see any links back to this forum, which is a vehicle you are using to promote your services and add revenue into your pocket. Why is that?

 

"Two things people should understand. Just because someone is on my “list” doesn’t mean I’m saying they are superior to any other doctor. It does mean that I like their work and they get positive recognition from me but it mainly means they have not only demonstrated the ability to perform excellent hair restoration but they have also demonstrated to me an open mind to making things better for patients and I have a LOT of ideas on how to do this and for this they get positive acknowledgement for what they do. "

 

This sounds very familiar. From our physician standards page,

 

"Important Note - The hair restoration physicians recommended on this site are not a definitive list of all excellent hair transplant doctors. Nor do we warranty or guaranty the results of any of the physicians presented on this site. As always, we encourage you to do your due diligence in evaluating these and all hair loss physicians"

 

My time is not complimentary so like you and everyone at HRN I receive a monthly retainer for my time. There has never been anything vague about this and it has been disclosed multiple times since I first started working with Dr. K. I have to make a living and this is one way in which I do this."

 

Once again, very familiar - from our physician standards page,

 

"How this online community is funded. Those surgeons who are carefully reviewed and chosen for recommendation on this site contribute a monthly fee to co-sponsor this online community and display their before and after photos, videos and contact information."

 

Joe, by your own admission, you are only working with physicians who are recommended by this community and then charging them a monthly retainer (higher than our sponsorship fee) to perform tasks for them on OUR community that we already offer them as part of their recommendation.

 

I understand that you want to make a living, but you are basically taking our list of recommended doctors that we've worked so hard to learn about and prescreen and then try to get them to pay you to provide them the same services we already provide for an additional fee.

 

Frankly, it's almost like you are working FOR the Hair Transplant Network yet you are actually working against this patient community by convincing a few doctors to pay more than double what they are paying now and putting that money in your own pocket rather than helping to build resources that will benefit the overall patient community. In other words, you are essentially making yourself a forum moderator and reaping all the benefits from our hard work. This puts a poor taste in my and Pat's mouth who has some very strong opinions about this as I do.

 

As for the phone call, I never received a voicemail from you. If you left one, it must have gotten lost into cellular cyber space. But we definitely need to talk more about this.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

 

Bill, quick question, how is what Joe is doing is really that much different from what someone like Spex is doing when Spex actually works as a rep for various surgeons? Not knocking either guy, but both are just using this forum to share valuable info, and I haven't seen Joe aggressively selling his affiliated surgeons, although I am scratching my head as to why exactly these clinics are paying him money to not "sell". But hey, if he can get them to pay him a higher fee than you guys get - good for him.m

[Bill - Seemiller]

Mav,

 

Essentially, Joe appears to be duplicating our efforts by asking surgeons we recommend to pay him money to provide services to them using our forum, services we already provide to surgeons approved for recommendation. Spex is a little different, but we will soon be developing a policy on how to handle this as well.

 

The bottom line for me is that our forum is a place for patients and recommended physicians to share their experiences and results. It is not a place for hired guns to troll our forums and monetize their posting and influence, especially when they undermine the work we do. Joe is essentially using our community that has already been well established to make money without actually contributing to our site's resources and efforts. His own site has virtually no visibility online which is why he's not bothering to create his own discussion forum. Thus, instead of creating a competitive site which he knows will take real effort and work with a low success rate, he's using well established sites like ours to make money for himself without actually contributing to it. In a sense, it's like photocopying a book or pirating DVD's to sell in order to make money.

 

I do feel that our recommendations need to evolve to reflect the changes in the industry. If Joe were willing to work with us to bring new high clinics in for recommendation and build upon what we have all built together that would be wonderful. But I get the sense that he has taken a contemptuous view of our community and wants to use it to forward his own agenda.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[JoeTillman]

Hi Bill,

 

I appreciate your explanation but frankly, it seems like you are offering our recommended physicians the same service for a large fee that we do as part of being recommended here. Per your explanation

 

"I’m working with clinics that are recommended here and I’m offering assistance with their online presence."

 

Physicians recommended by this community are welcome to contact us with any questions on how to use this community and maximize their recommendation. In fact, we have many inside resources that we provide physicians including a 35 plus page "Physicians Guidebook" on how promote their clinic on the web.

 

I'm not sure what the problem is my friend. Regardless of whether or not you received my message, which was left on your work #, not your cell #, you have my # so if you really want to discuss this I fail to see why you can't pick up the phone. Have you gone to Turkey to document what it's like to do so? Have you gone to any clinics with a video camera to document and film? I know Pat has gone to a few clinics in the past but none with a video camera that I recall and if he has in the past he certainly isn't doing so now. Have either of you ever worked in a top clinic? How about two? Do you know what constitutes proper medical practices? I do.

 

Joe, you are basically creating a list of recommendations without actually calling it that. You also state very similarly to our site that your physicians pay a monthly retainer fee to utilize your services, which obviously includes listing them on your website.

 

How else am I supposed to say I'm being compensated for my time?

 

I also notice you have a section on your website called "Forum". And while you claim you won't be hosting one, I don't see any links back to this forum, which is a vehicle you are using to promote your services and add revenue into your pocket. Why is that?

 

Yes, and if you clicked the "Forum" link you'll see it has one section and one section only called "Ask Joe" and the "link" is not in the "Ask Joe" section. It is somewhere else on the website.

 

My time is not complimentary so like you and everyone at HRN I receive a monthly retainer for my time. There has never been anything vague about this and it has been disclosed multiple times since I first started working with Dr. K. I have to make a living and this is one way in which I do this."

 

Once again, very familiar - from our physician standards page,

 

"How this online community is funded. Those surgeons who are carefully reviewed and chosen for recommendation on this site contribute a monthly fee to co-sponsor this online community and display their before and after photos, videos and contact information."

 

Once again, how else am I supposed to say I'm being compensated for my time? You've asked me multiple times what I'm doing and I've answered multiple times more but now you have a problem with the way I worded it?

 

Joe, by your own admission, you are only working with physicians who are recommended here and then charging them a monthly retainer (higher than our sponsorship fee) to perform tasks for them on OUR community that we already offer them as part of their recommendation.

 

First, my fee is what my time is worth and no one is forced to pay but when someone contacts me and asks me what it takes to be affiliated with me then I dont think I should say that I shouldn't work with them because I don't want to upset Bill and Pat. Does that make sense to you? You say "by your own admission.." as if there should be an element of guilt in utilizing my experience to various clinics. However, how would you react if I were working with any clinics that were NOT listed here? Would you ask for them to join the site if they were not already listed or would you prevent me from posting if they refused? Should I have set up my own forum, you know, one that has more than one section called "Ask Joe" and gone into direct competition? I don't think so and I wouldn't want to do that to begin with. There are enough forums as it is.

 

You've mentioned more than once that you think I am offering what you are already offereing. If that's the case, where are the video reviews? Where is the investigative work you've done to infiltrate a "technician" clinic in Turkey by posing as a patient? Yeah, I've done that (video to come soon). If what I'm doing is no different than what you're doing why are doctors contacting me to ask how they can be affiliated with me? I've only contacted one doctor, all the others I've spoken to have contacted me first and I have the emails to back it up and no one has anything to the contrary. Obviously there are doctors that see value in my experience but I really REALLY hope you aren't equating my experience as a patient, with two bad strips and then repair with Dr. Wong, having worked in two top clinics for a total of over 11 years and having practically invented the idea of patient documentation (among other things) to what can be found in a 35 page manual. Seriously old friend, do you think that is fair?

 

I understand that you want to make a living, but you are basically taking our list of recommended doctors that we've worked so hard to learn about and prescreen and then try to get them to pay you to provide them the same services we already provide for an additional fee.

 

Again, I've got docs contacting me and we are not offering the same services. You're in your house in Pensylvania. I'm on a plane for a week out of each month, away from my family,for the past three months documenting clinics with more to come. I mean, it is what it is and if you can point to one person on your staff that has as much clinical experience as I do, as much experience as a patient as I have, is hopping on planes documenting for YOUR readers what a clinic is like, showing what the journey involves, staying in and showing the same hotels that patients stay in and trying to dig into the subject matter, again on video, that people are interested in knowing about, then I'll gladly step aside and hang it up because the last thing I'm going to be is a "me too" kind of guy. I am an original thinker which is why you can not legitimately point to anyone else doing what I'm doing. You're not doing it, neither is David or Blake. Pat's not doing it because he's doing his thing away from the "job". In fact, Pat said something interesting yesterday that I think suits this situation...

 

True freedom is an inside job. Blessings for being liberated from all your limiting beliefs, subconscious blind spots, indoctrination and cultural programing. May you be free to be your true authentic self. Let your freak flag fly high.

 

That quote was by Pat just yesterday on his Facebook page. This is what I'm doing, I'm being my authentic self so how can this put a bad taste in his mouth, much less yours?

 

Frankly, it's almost like you are working FOR the Hair Transplant Network yet you are actually working against this patient community by convincing a few doctors to pay more than double what they are paying now and putting that money in your own pocket rather than helping to build resources that will benefit the overall patient community. In other words, you are essentially making yourself a forum moderator and reaping all the benefits from our hard work. This puts a poor taste in my and Pat's mouth who has some very strong opinions about this as I do.

 

For this to put a "poor taste" in your mouth is silly, really. If you thought differently you'd realize that what I'm doing is a benefit to this community because none of you have done what I'm doing and quite frankly none of you have the time to. You'd have to hire someone to globetrot and you'd have to dedicate time each day to each of your doctor members to help them with improving their policies for the betterment of the patient and for the betterment of the industry. I'm not going to work with 80 doctors, I'm going to work with a handful because to work with any more would be spreading myself too thin.

 

As for the phone call, I never received a voicemail from you. If you left one, it must have gotten lost into cellular cyber space. But we definitely need to talk more about this.

 

Well, I think it is obvious that if you truly wanted to talk about this man to man, you'd have done so by now, instead of trying to shame me publicly. As I said, you have my #. You have my email and you have the voicemail, and caller ID that shows I called. I still have the record on my phone as well. Shall I send a screenshot of my phone record to prove I called?

 

So the question begs to be asked, Bill. What am I to do? Continue to offer unique and original ideas for clinics to utilize for their patients and keep shooting original video footage for your readers to take advantage of or should I disappear and let my experience go to waste? Experience that quite frankly no one else has. I mean, it's obvious you want me to do something or else you wouldnt' be initiating this one man lynch mob. So instead of wasting everyone's time, lets get to the heart of the matter and tell me what you think I should do.

[ontop]

Bill...

 

with respect

 

For what its worth i think your bang out of line to call joe out like this on a Public Forum when if something was eating away at you, you could have just contacted him private and put your concerns to him directly.

 

Bill...

is there a Limit that how many Clinics some Rep can work for? is that in the Forum Policy & Rules?

Is joe breaking any Forum Rules by working and getting paid by several rec Clinics by this Forum only?

did he not get paid by H&W post many results/ advice on this Forum thats not a problem but working for several Clinics seem to be.

what are you afraid of Bill that joe will take all your Drs away and set up shop himself? i think he could of done that yrs ago if he choose to.

 

Bill.....

please use some common sense Joe Tillman love him or hate him only has our best interest at heart.

 

Have a Good day.

 

Bill...

You was asked why is Joes situation different from Spex and your answer was shady to say the least, like you had no answer but gave something of nothing.......what is the difference between spex and Joe Bill?

[Bill - Seemiller]

Joe,

 

It's interesting that instead of addressing the obvious duplication of our efforts and blatant use of our site to peddle your own agenda and profit making that you attack my and Pat's credibility along with the credibility of this community. But I guess that's what a frightened rabbit might do when he realizes he's been cornered, caught and out-maneuvered.

 

I'm honestly not going to get in a pissing match with you about who is more qualified. Nobody questioned your qualifications and the fact that you question mine is juvenile and moronic. I would say that I'm surprised to see you resort to that level but you've changed your views so much lately that I guess nothing surprises me about you anymore.

 

The only point I'll address is the one you said where Pat visited a "few" clinics. Allow me to correct you. Pat's visited dozens of leading clinics including many just recently (though the recent ones have yet to be documented). You can view his detailed review and photo presentations by visiting our "Visits to Leading Hair Transplant Clinics" section of our forum.

 

Adding video is nice, but it doesn't make your "affiliations" more credible. Besides, physicians take dozens of videos themselves and add them on YouTube. Thus, just because we haven't taken our own when we visited clinics doesn't mean we aren't qualified to assess physician made videos and what Pat has seen during live surgery We've also personally interviewed dozens of leading surgeons. You can view them by visiting "Interviews with Leading Hair Transplant Surgeons".

 

Joe, you honestly disappoint me. Your entire response was riddled with insults and an attempt to undermine my credibility as a hair loss patient mentor with 50% of your message trying to make me look bad because I didn't return a phone message I never received. Sorry my friend, but that's just plain childish.

 

As for how to move forward, Pat, Dave Blake and I are in the process of discussing this. We haven't needed a policy on how to handle a situation like this but we are now in the process of creating one.

 

Best Regards,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

ontop,

 

You are missing the point. This community is for patients and recommended physicians to share their experience and results. It's not a venue for hired guns to monetize their posts especially while undermining our efforts. Joe is welcome to create his own site and his very own recommendation list if he'd like. But using someone else's site to peddle their own agenda and monetize their posts isn't what this forum is for.

 

For the record, I have nothing personal against Joe. Regarding policy, we've never needed a policy regarding posters who represent dozens of clinics and using our site to promote them because it's only recently been happening. Thus, we are in the process of creating a policy that hopefully will be fair for everyone and keep the best interest of the patient community first.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[ontop]

Thanks Bill,

 

But Bill there is many Reps on here who post for certain Clinics and Drs but thats allowed but not allowed if you are a rep for several.

again with respect that dont make sense to me.

 

as a outsider looking inwards i really dont think joe has a hidden agenda like your making out.,..maybe im wrong and you know more than your saying.

 

Im not blowing smoke up Joes ass here but this guy is not the average John Doe Bill , this is a guy you and we all know his history, background and for what is happened here is Sad as we do need guys like this Bill.

 

Please dont let stuff like this get in the way....get together have a chat and work things out.

 

Best wishes

[JoeTillman]

Point to one insult. Quote me.

 

How have I undermined your or Pat's credibility?

 

The bottom line is this. You started this, not me. You've peppered your posts with innuendo, enough to choke a horse. If you were really concerned and truly had questions you would have called me. Forget about my original call to you and this claim that I'm trying to make you look bad for not calling me back. There is something called communication and we've had open lines of it before. Even if I did not call or you did not get the voicemail, it is irrelevant. We go back far enough that you could call if you truly wanted to know what I'm doing.

 

Funny how these "concerned" people have emailed you but not me. Why wouldn't anyone just ask me directly? You've done so in the past so the question begs to be asked; why not now?

[KO]

I do not see what Joe does different from Spex? Joe is just using different terminology of "Doctors I like" rather than "Doctors I represent". His forum is pretty small by design, and there to ask Joe questions.

 

The real issue is, as Bill noted, that HTN doesn't have a policy for representatives of multiple clinics, but is that Joe's fault? Couldn't a simple phone call have settled this privately?

[FUE2014]

Hi Bill , my 2 cents for what it's worth is that there are patient advisors on this site who directly benefit from their presence on the HRN. In the case of Spex, not only does he advertise in his signature the docs he is affiliated with, but he uses HRN to promote himself too

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/179770-spencer-spex-stevenson-hair-transplant-patient-advisor-dr-scott-alexander.html

 

I would be very surprised if he was not somehow benefiting financially from using the HRN to regularly advertise who he works with. There therefore needs to be an equitable and consistent approach in managing all patient advisors / mentors on the HRN.

[Specstronic]

Joe, your narcissism knows no bounds. Pat and Bill have a right to be p*ssed off as you are attempting to create your own sub-group of recommended surgeons for your own financial gain and using the HRN to advertise the fact. Your replies to Bill amount to little more than: "Do you know who I am?" Not very smart really.

 

You peddle yourself as an ethical Hair Transplant Mentor and I guess you generally are, just so long as there is a buck or a dime in it for you. Two years ago you were telling us that FUSS is the far better procedure than FUE and now that the dollar signs are flashing in front of your very eyes you have suddenly "evolved" your opinions (as you like to phrase it) of FUE and are now telling us what a fantastic procedure it is. I remember reading on your old Blog how you had attended an ISHRS 2013 conference and could not believe how average the FUE results were. That posting has strangely disappeared.

 

We are just waiting for your next "evolution". I guess it will be that Lateral Slits are outdated and every surgeon worth their salt should be using implanter pens! This will probably be announced in tandem with your "recommendation" of Doctor Lorenzo.

 

When will you be working for Feller/Bloxham & Lindsey as we are all on tenterhooks waiting for your recommendation of mFUE? Amazing what a bit of cash can do for one's personal evolution.

 

As far as comparisons to Spex go, Spex is a Patient Advisor of recommended clinics and does not post here that often and doesn't promote his own website.

 

By the way Joe, your affiliations list appears to be missing Mr Kobren.