FUT is less costly compared to FUE. Can i choose FUT?

[BaldingBogger]

i think the impression coming off this thread for a potential patient which should be tempered is its a cast iron guarantee that Strip will yield him a far superior result. Simply not true.

 

A lot of the more recent FUE Dr Feller results i have seen posted online had poor growth which suggests the issue was technique as i have not seen as many poor FUE's from other leading clinics.

 

I respect the decision there to concentrate to Strip but just because an individual clinic cannot perform a technique to a consistent high standard does not mean other clinics cannot.

 

Some of the recent FUT results i have seen posted on this forum came from Dr Feller / Dr Charles to name but two have also had poor growth. I know most clinics have poor cases (i have not seen any from Lorenzo though) but there are no guarantees here no matter what technique is used is my point.

 

So patients need to be very careful with their decision making as once you are cut there is no shave down escape route you end up chasing your tail and getting cut again.

 

The only clinic i would agree that produce consistent top class FUT results that look denser than your average results would be Hasson & Wong. However again the above point stands people should bear in mind there are no guarantees with hair transplantation.

Edited May 24, 2015 by BaldingBogger

[scar5]

Most surgeons use motorized punches....manual extraction is tiring is moot IMO.

 

Yes, but spending two days to extract 3000 grafts (FUE) vs 40 minutes (strip) is certainly not a mute point.

[ontop]

Hi Blake,

 

Dr. Lorenzo does not charge 9.32 dollars per graft. Please see his pricing structure below.

 

Dr. Lorenzo charges:

 

6 euros for the first 1000 grafts

4 euros for the second 1000 grafts

2.5 euros per graft thereafter

 

Please note that his rates are fixed at 2.5 euros per graft once 2000 grafts have been extracted. Therefore, if a client goes back to the office 2 years later, the rates are still 2.5 euros per graft.

 

A NW 6 needing 7,000 grafts would end up paying:

 

1000 x 6 = 6000 euros

1000 x 4 = 4000 euros

5000 x 2.5 = 12,500 euros

 

Total: 22,500 euros

 

 

An American surgeon charging 8 dollars per graft would end up costing:

 

8 dollars x 7000 = 56,000 dollars

 

56,000 dollars converted is 50,849 Euros.

 

US rates: 50,849 Euros

Dr. Lorenzo : 22.500 Euros

 

50,849 - 22,500 = 28,349 euros difference

 

Therefore, clinics charging 8 dollars per graft in the U.S. are 28,349 euros more expensive.

 

Blake, why is this the case?

 

 

Yep them rates are correct a much lesser than the top US Docs & Dr L is up there with the best in the world but one of the highest rates in europe.

 

I believe that the one Joe works with Dr K in turkey charges less than Dr L & just recently posted a Pt result of around 4K FUE grafts which looks & sounds to me a great Dr to be watchful for in the future.

 

Just for the record I'm not for or against FUE or FUT I think it boils down to what works best for each person age, calibur of hair, color, family genes, & what NW they may end up with in the future.

 

Now saying all that Dr Lindsey made some post which made me think a lot deeper of some pts with fine hair & what could / would work best & I must say he makes a vaild point what would be best for such Pts.

 

IMO...

I think FUT is good for certain Pts but I must say I feel that US Docs is under the kosh & caught up with state medical boards of what techs can & can't do when it comes down to surgery.

This must be such a burden to a lot of US Docs & they must feel somewhat behind the 8 ball to european Drs.

Kinda makes me wonder bringing out the Artas & neo graft is there attempt to try to even the playing field somewhat & as we know them machines are not all to be cracked up to be.

 

There's nothing like the old needle & cotton way of doing things.

 

I think each & everyone of you bring up a lot of good valid & interesting points & food for thought for all members.

[ontop]

Another point....

Whereas Dr is less price per a graft than US Docs you can easy add on $2500 for traval & hotels, so does it really save you a fist full of $$$$ ?

But you are going to go to one of the so called best Dr in the world for that price though.

[Blake Bloxham]

Delancy,

 

I do agree with limiting the number of grafts via FUE in one session. FUE yield is more variable as it is, and the 5,000 graft cases in one day make me a tad nervous.

 

However, I think it's worth noting that "6 months to a year" may be a bit of an underestimation when it comes to these "wow" FUE transformation timelines. If you look at a lot of the big results, from guys like Dr L, for example, you'll see this taking 3-5 sessions. I'm a believer in waiting 12 months between sessions. I think most other surgeons are as well. This means the transformation can take upwards of 5 years, not an extra 6 months. While I agree that our society is FAR too fixed on instant gratification and results now, most guys wait decades before deciding to finally restore their hair and likely don't want to wait another 1/2 decade for the results. I also wish this was clearer in some of the FUE videos.

 

Also, a quick comment about yield: we can argue the theoretical benefits of FUE v strip until we're blue in the face, but I stand by the fact that graft-per-graft growth, strip will always have better growth yield. In the study I've shared from Dr Wesley, he shows that skeletonized grafts grow about 30-40% less than grafts with appropriate supporting tissue. Even if in worst strip extraction, all of the grafts that don't lay on the outer rim of the strip will -- assuming good microscopic dissection -- have nice supporting tissue and stand the best chance of surviving and growing. This simply isn't true for FUE. Even in the best of hands, the grafts will be skeletonized. This is the very nature of the method, in fact.

 

Now, does this "guarantee" a good result? No. You could have techs that don't dissect correctly, place poorly, you could have a surgeon that doesn't make incision sites correctly, etc, and the results could stink. And there will always be the benefit of the lack of linear scar with FUE. However, arguing about growth yield is kind of a moot point. The basic principles behind the procedure and the data we have backs this. It's one of the strip "pros" that is essentially a fact; just like the lack of a linear scar is an FUE "pro" that is a pretty indisputable fact.

[ontop]

Blake,

Can Fue Pts have 5k grafts done in 1 or 2 days these days & still have the more or less the same outcome / yeild in 12 /18 mths as a guy having FUT?

If so then he hasn't got to wait 5 yrs for the same result that FUT would bring surely?

[MAGNUMpi]

But did you not see any of these recent strip cases?

 

Patient Posted

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...-gabel-11.html

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...250-fut-4.html

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...-4300-fut.html

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...shapiro-8.html

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...s-post-op.html

Clinic Posted

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...ont-crown.html

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...-sessions.html

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...technique.html

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...-3-007-fu.html

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...ts-type-v.html __

good point and also look at 1978matt's results. Amazing. Seems its a gamble either way really. You MIGHT get a small scar and great yield with FUT. You also MIGHT get a great result with FUE and avoid the scar. It seems to depend on the individual's loss and physiology and the doctor's work.

That being said I personally wouldnt take the chance on a having a stretched scar. Just not worth the risk (to me).

Think about how the hair thins out in a man's 60-70's. That's when a scar could look really bad.

... still a great thread.

[hairweare]

Yes, I agree some of those cases have achieved Lorenzo like results but at the cost of a permanent linear scar. Those that can't achieve FUSS like yields with FUE shouldn't be doing it but also shouldn't be criticizing those that can. 3-5 passes are the exception rather than the rules and are reserved for challenging higher NW cases with questionable donor reserve. No honest strip surgeon should touch those cases especially with a mega session.

[KO]

Hadenough2014's case is highly impressive, great hairline, illusion of density, and also was done using pretty average/finer hair.

[Yaz89]

Most surgeons use motorized punches to extract grafts (Including Vories who clearly said he uses motorized to avoid fatigue). Only a few are using manual extraction, and I suspect that number will stay very small as all the Turkish clinics can use tech-driven motorized extraction. In that sense whether manual extraction is tiring is moot IMO.

 

I think Dr Vories uses manual punches KO. His website states it so.

[KO]

I think Dr Vories uses manual punches KO. His website states it so.

In this case posted in Jan he notes use of motorized punches. I think when he says "manual" it is with respect to robotic extraction. Maybe he can clear this up:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/178127-michael-vories-md-fue-7125-grafts-update.html#post2418173

[delancey]

Imagine putting an Accountant in charge of Human Resources and vice versa. I am certain both professionals would do fine in each others roles. However, statistics would surely indicate performance differences between the two professionals. Similarly, the same thing applies for the FUE and FUT methods. Take a top FUT surgeon, who has been performing FUT his entire life. Surely, the results have been impressive. It may even have earned him a membership to the HRN. The same principle applies to the FUE surgeon. Repetition and time create excellence. But what would happen if they were to switch places? Statistics would most likely indicate a performance drop of 20-30 %. Statistics between doctors who predominantly perform FUT with those who predominantly perform FUE cannot be compared for this simple reason. A FUT Doctor has not developed the same skill, experience, and expertise as someone who has been doing the same thing on a daily basis for many years.

[mav23100gunther]

Imagine putting an Accountant in charge of Human Resources and vice versa. I am certain both professionals would do fine in each others roles. However, statistics would surely indicate performance differences between the two professionals.

 

 

Actually, I beg to differ, no disrespect to the very few good H.R. Professionals out there, but not only will an accountant perform a much better job in charge of Human Resources, but I bet you that most toilet cleaners would do much better than the current H.R. heads - haha

[scar5]

All things being equal, you would think practice improves outcomes.

 

In the sense of the industry we have two outcomes.

 

1) The outcome for the surgeon/clinic/rep/employees

2) the outcome for the patient

 

This is why we have to consider the situation very carefully when we are getting advice and weighing up the differences of opinion - especially when comparing advice pertaining to FUE from clinics that cannot employ technicians to extract as opposed to those that can allow.

 

As I have said before,

 

-40 minutes of the doc's time to extract 3000 - 4000 follicles via strip ("FUT")

 

-15-20 hours of the docs time to do the same via FUE - IF HE/SHE IS COMPELLED BY LAW TO DO ALL THE EXTRACTIONS PERSONALLY - SUCH AS IN NEW YORK!

 

That is why we have the incentive to keep pushing strip in North America.

In reality strip should be far, far cheaper, and FUE should be far far more expensive in the US, but this law - (about tech extraction) distorts the whole market. THe Turkish guys can keep pressure on US FUE guys and the US strip guys have to do a little part-time FUE to keep their credentials alive.

 

Docs find ways to get better, but they also find ways to get more sensible ..i.e. economical and legally responsible.

 

It amazes me why you lot don't discuss this

[MAGNUMpi]

It will be great when some new Dr. from Turkey pops up in the next few years with consistently amazing results like a Lorenzo/Konier etc. It's bound to happen and it will be exciting.

[KO]

Scar5, you keep talking about the economics, but do you disagree that FUT gives you more hair and better hair?

[KO]

It will be great when some new Dr. from Turkey pops up in the next few years with consistently amazing results like a Lorenzo/Konier etc. It's bound to happen and it will be exciting.

 

Check out Erkan Demirsoy. Does all extractions by himself using motorized punch. Can also do manual too.

[hairweare]

Yes! Someone has been drinking the FUT Kool-Aid.

[GreatPelo]

I think in order to guide you correctly you should add pictures to study your hair loss pattern. If you have an aggressive hair loss pattern, you should lean towards the FUT method, considering you'll get more yield, more coverage. Once you're close to your goal, you can turn to FUE, not only touch up remaining areas, but also to add to your linear scar and diminish scarring if you were left with a thicker than normal scar. Every patient is different...not all patients are candidates for the FUE method.

[MAGNUMpi]

Check out Erkan Demirsoy. Does all extractions by himself using motorized punch. Can also do manual too.

Will do. Thanks.