Dr KORAY ERDOGAN - 4016 grafts FUE

[ASMEDMANUALFUE]

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ASMED SURGICAL MEDICAL CENTER

Dr Koray Erdogan

 

 

 

 

 

- PATIENT'S AGE: 26

 

- Hairloss type LUDWIG (Alopecia Diffusa): II

 

- TOTAL DONOR CAPACITY: 7000 grafts

 

- OPERATION DETAILS: 4016 grafts FUE extracted with titanium manual punch, diameter 0.6 - 0.8 mm.

 

Incisions realised by: custom made blades, lateral slit

 

744 single grafts

1603 double grafts

1669 multiple grafts

 

- GRAFTS DISTRIBUTION: 2008 grafts were used to fill the frontal part; 2008 grafts to cover the mid-scalp and vertex

 

- FINASTERIDE: The patient started the treatment 5 years before undergoing the surgery

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BEFORE THE OPERATION

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OPERATION

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

12 MONTHS AFTER THE OPERATION

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[TakingThePlunge]

Beautiful work! A truly excellent result for this young man.

[hairchallenged]

Nice work! Fair skin and light brown hair definitely give a good illusion of coverage.

 

Do you have any stats as to what density the grafts were placed at throughout the head, what the distribution was (how many to hairline, how many to mid scalp etc.) as well as the patients hair caliber? Thanks

[hadenough2014]

Excellent result. The doc had a great slate to start with, but I like that he went after this in a way that anticipates future loss of native hair and the graft hairs will continue to mask it. By doing a large session now (and hopefully still on meds) he may be a one-and-done case for the next 30 years+. I do wonder, however, how the doc thinks he still has 3000 donor grafts remaining. Looks to me like he scattered through the whole donor zone pretty thoroughly.

 

Thanks for posting the phots. This young fella has a good head of hair now.

[Questionmark]

It looks good for now, but what about in 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years?? The donor seems nearly exhausted, one can already see through by now, so FUT will be impossible, considering even minor future thinning in the region (to which the patient seems predestined to).

 

And harvesting 3000 from that?? Just not possible.

 

It also looks like the patient has not the physics to possess a considerable amount of body grafts.

 

So of course it looks good by now, but let`s consider that his hair got styled in the most presentable way, and still one can see that it?s not "full", almost see-through in areas, and it`ll look see-through again when he is not styled this way.

 

It is not a very wise approach to act like this and not wait another few years, and take a more conservative approach. Not very wise to say it very carefully, VERY carefully.

He will loose more hair in the upcoming years, and will come out much worse than he looked pre-op, as all existing hairs will be gone one day. And then what.

[Lateatnight]

The Doctor is very careful in his evaluation, i'd trust him when he says it's ok to harvest until that number. Or better, i should have trusted him.

[BUSA]

WTF are u talking about? I always find it amusing wen some guy gets on here and tells Dr. Erdogan what he shud be doing with his patients and how there is no way in the future this guy will retain his hair.

 

did the thought cross ur mind that just maybe he cud get on Fin and stop his future hair loss? all existing hairs will be gone by then? thank god ppl like u have a crystal ball! smh

 

how bout you let the guy who continues to produce some of the best HT's anywhere on earth and one that practices the same principals as Lorenzo decide what is best for the patient. ya know, the guy who does this for a living vs. some guy like you who suddenly knows more then the doctor does....:rolleyes:

 

It looks good for now, but what about in 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years?? The donor seems nearly exhausted, one can already see through by now, so FUT will be impossible, considering even minor future thinning in the region (to which the patient seems predestined to).

 

And harvesting 3000 from that?? Just not possible.

 

It also looks like the patient has not the physics to possess a considerable amount of body grafts.

 

So of course it looks good by now, but let`s consider that his hair got styled in the most presentable way, and still one can see that it?s not "full", almost see-through in areas, and it`ll look see-through again when he is not styled this way.

 

It is not a very wise approach to act like this and not wait another few years, and take a more conservative approach. Not very wise to say it very carefully, VERY carefully.

He will loose more hair in the upcoming years, and will come out much worse than he looked pre-op, as all existing hairs will be gone one day. And then what.

[Questionmark]

I reported you, just so you know. And I am not the only one. When I first came here after a few months of absence, I found several posts of yours which offended other members, and you got repeatedly noticed of that. I initially was on your side, but after reviewing more of your outcome, I have to say that you should seriously consider to think about your general attitude towards, well, pretty much everything. Your demeanour on here in general is just not acceptable.

 

Are you talking like this to people in real life, too? Or are you just a keyboard warrior having spent too much time on Youtube gang fight videos?

[KO]

It looks good for now, but what about in 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years?? The donor seems nearly exhausted, one can already see through by now, so FUT will be impossible, considering even minor future thinning in the region (to which the patient seems predestined to).

 

And harvesting 3000 from that?? Just not possible.

 

It also looks like the patient has not the physics to possess a considerable amount of body grafts.

 

So of course it looks good by now, but let`s consider that his hair got styled in the most presentable way, and still one can see that it?s not "full", almost see-through in areas, and it`ll look see-through again when he is not styled this way.

 

It is not a very wise approach to act like this and not wait another few years, and take a more conservative approach. Not very wise to say it very carefully, VERY carefully.

He will loose more hair in the upcoming years, and will come out much worse than he looked pre-op, as all existing hairs will be gone one day. And then what.

 

I disagree. While it is correct that he may lose more hair in the future, you have to remember that there is always a risk of that with an HT (There is also a downside to not having an HT as well!). In this case, he has been on finasteride for 5 years, and if he has stabilized his loss, he is increasing his chances of a successful outcome. Furthermore, since he got FUE, he does not have a linear scar, and can camouflage further thinning with shorter and shorter cuts.

 

If this patient didn't take fin, then yes, I would not agree with surgery.

[hairweare]

The donor area does not seem to be depleted and it appears that the Dr's pre-op assessment of 7000 total grafts was a conservative one. Light hair with minimal scalp contrast bodes well and should he continue to thin it is likely that it may be diffuse and look quite good at a shorter length. Great result!

[Questionmark]

I can agree with disagreeing, but I am still not sure whether this was a wise approach. Again, imho there is no way getting 3000 more grafts out of that donor, rather 1500 - 2000 max, and this is referring to the current state, not considering future thinning in that area.

If I imagine myself to be in the shoes of the patient, and looking at my donor, I?d personally be honestly dissatisfied. You can see through it already right now (!!), and it is not that he has got a buzzcut, but wears it as long as it can get with a "normal" short haircut. He`s only 26... And you know that with Fin, there are a lot of issues. It doesnt stop hair loss, it at best does slow it down to a considerable degree. Hair loss will occurr nonetheless. I am not talking of the next two years, but what will be when he`s in his thirties, fourties, and fifties... Look at his crown, and donor; you can see that he`s an upcoming NW 6.

So far the effects and foremost side effects of Fin haven?t been evaluated for such a long term use, and already short term, there can be severe damage. I have seen numerous cases where patients that intially tolerated Fin had to quit it at some point later, even after years of appearent toleration with no detectable, assignable symptoms showing up. I don?t intend to start up a discussion about that, I just want to mention that the possibility of a necessity of a discontinuation of the medication at some point in his later life is not too far fetched. And even if that?ll be not the case, he IMO will not be able to yield satisfiable density with the remaining donor after future loss.

 

I`m not in any way implying that he messed him up, I just wanted to express these points so everybody looking at this thread can reflect on it for potential own future procedures. The risk/benefit-ratio imo is at its limits in this case, nothing more, nothing less. I wouldn?t have done it being in the patients shoes, but every man is the architect of his own fortune. Maybe I am a coward, maybe I am just more free in my evaluation than the surgeon and more educated than the patient. Who knows.

 

That said, the surgeon did an outstanding job in a technical sense, it?s a reference job imo in regards to diffuse thinning patients. The result looks awesome by now.

[PupDaddy]

Looks good, but a 26 year-old diffuse thinner is generally the sort of patient who would be better served stripping out first. He could have gotten this cosmetic result from a first strip surgery and then, likely in his thirties or early forties, had a second good strip surgery. Decades down the road, he would then have good, untouched reserves above and below the strip scar to harvest what might be needed via FUE.

[KO]

I can agree with disagreeing, but I am still not sure whether this was a wise approach. Again, imho there is no way getting 3000 more grafts out of that donor, rather 1500 - 2000 max, and this is referring to the current state, not considering future thinning in that area.

If I imagine myself to be in the shoes of the patient, and looking at my donor, I?d personally be honestly dissatisfied. You can see through it already right now (!!), and it is not that he has got a buzzcut, but wears it as long as it can get with a "normal" short haircut. He`s only 26... And you know that with Fin, there are a lot of issues. It doesnt stop hair loss, it at best does slow it down to a considerable degree. Hair loss will occurr nonetheless. I am not talking of the next two years, but what will be when he`s in his thirties, fourties, and fifties... Look at his crown, and donor; you can see that he`s an upcoming NW 6.

So far the effects and foremost side effects of Fin haven?t been evaluated for such a long term use, and already short term, there can be severe damage. I have seen numerous cases where patients that intially tolerated Fin had to quit it at some point later, even after years of appearent toleration with no detectable, assignable symptoms showing up. I don?t intend to start up a discussion about that, I just want to mention that the possibility of a necessity of a discontinuation of the medication at some point in his later life is not too far fetched. And even if that?ll be not the case, he IMO will not be able to yield satisfiable density with the remaining donor after future loss.

 

I`m not in any way implying that he messed him up, I just wanted to express these points so everybody looking at this thread can reflect on it for potential own future procedures. The risk/benefit-ratio imo is at its limits in this case, nothing more, nothing less. I wouldn?t have done it being in the patients shoes, but every man is the architect of his own fortune. Maybe I am a coward, maybe I am just more free in my evaluation than the surgeon and more educated than the patient. Who knows.

 

That said, the surgeon did an outstanding job in a technical sense, it?s a reference job imo in regards to diffuse thinning patients. The result looks awesome by now.

 

No doubt there is a risk, I will not deny that. But you also have to weigh it against the other risk of going through your youth with thinning hair which is also important. An HT is indeed a gamble.

[hairweare]

20 yrs later after a total of 5600 grafts/ 3 strip procedures I revisited NHI to discuss options to deal with my newly but progressive NW 6/7 horseshoe pattern which had reappeared. The docs there looked at my scar and remaining donor region and estimated 800 remaining grafts at best by strip with the chance of yet an even greater widening of the already visible occipital scar. Their advice was SMP which I immediately rejected as a consideration after watching a demonstration case there.

 

I then saw Dr. Umar who after looking with just a comb but no microscope felt that he could safely extract 2500 scalp hairs but would also need 2500 beard hairs to cover the thinned out crown. I had trouble with what appeared to me as an approach that was too aggressive and chose to research FUE in greater detail before deciding what to do. Ultimately I went with Dr. Lorenzo who advised two small sessions with predominately scalp hair. Using a microscope he estimated that a total of 2500 scalp grafts could be obtained but felt it wiser to start with 1500 and see how the donor zone recovered. 8 month later he was able to extract another 1400 scalp FUs and augmented the crown work with another 500 single beard FUs. (300 were used earlier to address the scar)

 

6 weeks after the second procedure my donor area has recovered sufficiently to obtain a clipper cut. My barber informs me that the area looks no different than before and suffice is to say does not suffer from a moth eaten appearance. In my own view, the difference in density between donor and recipient is not as obvious as it was before and overall gives the illusion of a middle aged guy with still a decent head of hair.

 

Again, I don't believe that the above patient even at 26 should have any other concern but to enjoy his newly styled hair. He has avoided the occipital scar and has plenty of donor hair remaining to address any future progression. If I were to start my journey all over again, I would have opted for FUE but only with sessions limited to 3000 over 2 days and done exclusively by surgeons or possibly a specific trusted tech with known experience and results.

[Spanker]

It looks good for now, but what about in 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years?? The donor seems nearly exhausted, one can already see through by now, so FUT will be impossible, considering even minor future thinning in the region (to which the patient seems predestined to).

 

And harvesting 3000 from that?? Just not possible.

 

It also looks like the patient has not the physics to possess a considerable amount of body grafts.

 

So of course it looks good by now, but let`s consider that his hair got styled in the most presentable way, and still one can see that it?s not "full", almost see-through in areas, and it`ll look see-through again when he is not styled this way.

 

It is not a very wise approach to act like this and not wait another few years, and take a more conservative approach. Not very wise to say it very carefully, VERY carefully.

He will loose more hair in the upcoming years, and will come out much worse than he looked pre-op, as all existing hairs will be gone one day. And then what.

 

I thought the same thing when you had your transplant. I thought it was very aggressive. Probably 90 percent of patients, including myself when I had mine at 33 are at a risk of being extensive further work and many of us will tap out our reserves like this guy probably will. The key is looking natural with what you have left and all your donor has been moved.

[Questionmark]

I thought the same thing when you had your transplant. I thought it was very aggressive. Probably 90 percent of patients, including myself when I had mine at 33 are at a risk of being extensive further work and many of us will tap out our reserves like this guy probably will. The key is looking natural with what you have left and all your donor has been moved.

 

Thanks mate, you?re right. My transplant, looking back now, has been an equally "borderline" type of enterprise. I did portray my characteristics and my family hair loss history in my thread, and to a certain degree, it`s been a gamble, too. It seems I walk out fine, now, and each case obviously is different. The approach I took however caused me to look at it again from a new angle, and I realized how much of an important decision it was, and how unconscious of that I`d been when forming my decision. So I kinda feel obliged to make others aware of the risks and imponderabilities one is exposed to in the process. And in this specific case, I see that maybe all that glitters by now is not gold. Don`t get me wrong, again, it`s outstanding work in a technical sense, and the patient surely is happy, and many are very impressed. Maybe you get my point, though. Cheers.

[BUSA]

id rather look good in my 20's, 30's and early 40's then worry about future hair loss. by then there will be so many advancements in HT's that it won't matter. HM will likely be available by then anyway and if not something else will be. its already a billion dollar business and that means new treatments.

[fisher4man]

So of course it looks good by now, but let`s consider that his hair got styled in the most presentable way, and still one can see that it?s not "full", almost see-through in areas, and it`ll look see-through again when he is not styled this way.

 

It is not a very wise approach to act like this and not wait another few years, and take a more conservative approach. Not very wise to say it very carefully, VERY carefully.

He will loose more hair in the upcoming years, and will come out much worse than he looked pre-op, as all existing hairs will be gone one day. And then what.

 

Wise comments. I think most HT doctors would not accept this guy to operate. There is no HT indication at that stage of hair loss.

 

Just wearing the hair longer and colouring darker (or changing color contrast of the pictures) -as already done in the postop pictures- would provide almost the same result here.

 

And, there is no way to evaluate the donor capacity preoperatively (or for the donor capacity for the 2nd session) , this is just an estimation, very rude estimation. Talking about clear donor area capacity to give graft numbers is simple advertorial.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Busa,

 

I am still receiving reports and complaints from multiple users about your aggressive behavior and words on this forum. You have already been warned about this. This is your second and final warning before we suspend your posting privileges.

 

Please be more respectful towards members as you share your opinion.

 

Bill

[wibbles180]

Hi all , I'm looking a for advice on my decision between erdogan and lorenzo , I have had consultations from both , lorenzo live consultation adviced 1800-2200 fue , erdogan virtual consultation 4200 fue !!! With my research it seems that dr erdogan is far more aggressive with hairlines so obviously there will be more grafts used but to nearly double the amount does it suggest that dr lorenzo is getting better/same results with less grafts ? What are the reasons for this? Also looking at lorenzos work when shaved for 2nd procedures the scarring seems almost invisible, where as I've seen a few of dr korays that show white dot scars in the donor ?

 

Any advice will be greatly received as I am looking to book surgery with one of the 2 above surgeons this year

 

Thanks

[BUSA]

Erdogan is FAR more aggressive with hairlines you are correct. both are great and share similar techniques but Lorenzo is far too conservative with his hairlines.

 

yes it will require more hairs which is why Lorenzo's quote wud be less hairs simply cause ur getting less coverage. no ur not getting the same or better results with lorenzo ur simply getting less grafts.

 

its simple math. less grafts means density. there is no magic illusion the doctor is gonna perform. both have an extremely high graft survivability rate so imo I wud chose erdogan.

 

plenty of ppl bow down to lorenzo like he's the HT god but the simple fact is he is way too conservative with his hairlines and to be honest imo he isn't after that youthful appearance. he is after then conservative middle aged look of a 50 yr old man. which works for some ppl but those wanting a more aggressive youthful looking hairline wud chose Erdogan over lorenzo any day.

 

Hi all , I'm looking a for advice on my decision between erdogan and lorenzo , I have had consultations from both , lorenzo live consultation adviced 1800-2200 fue , erdogan virtual consultation 4200 fue !!! With my research it seems that dr erdogan is far more aggressive with hairlines so obviously there will be more grafts used but to nearly double the amount does it suggest that dr lorenzo is getting better/same results with less grafts ? What are the reasons for this? Also looking at lorenzos work when shaved for 2nd procedures the scarring seems almost invisible, where as I've seen a few of dr korays that show white dot scars in the donor ?

 

Any advice will be greatly received as I am looking to book surgery with one of the 2 above surgeons this year

 

Thanks

[KO]

Hi all , I'm looking a for advice on my decision between erdogan and lorenzo , I have had consultations from both , lorenzo live consultation adviced 1800-2200 fue , erdogan virtual consultation 4200 fue !!! With my research it seems that dr erdogan is far more aggressive with hairlines so obviously there will be more grafts used but to nearly double the amount does it suggest that dr lorenzo is getting better/same results with less grafts ? What are the reasons for this? Also looking at lorenzos work when shaved for 2nd procedures the scarring seems almost invisible, where as I've seen a few of dr korays that show white dot scars in the donor ?

 

Any advice will be greatly received as I am looking to book surgery with one of the 2 above surgeons this year

 

Thanks

Why don't you post some photos. You have to keep in mind, Lorenzo implants a far smaller amount of grafts/day compared to Erdogan. I think Erdogan is far too aggressive with lower norwoods, but that's just my opinion. That said, I don't think Lorenzo is the best guy for lower norwoods either.

[Questionmark]

(...) Lorenzo is far too conservative with his hairlines.

 

 

 

Busa, why dont you back up your (imo false) claims with a representative amount of evidence? You always just CLAIM something, but lack to bring forth some examples, at least.

Please show us the cases which led you to the conclusion that Lorenzo is "far (!) too conservative", thank you in advance. We then, at last. would all be able to discuss things substantiatedly, instead of exchanging pleasentries...

 

Also, have you thought about the possibility that Lorenzo takes a comparably conservative approach with some thoughts behind it? Why doesnt he take such an aggressive approach, when he hence easily could charge more money for it?

[1966kph]

One of the things that concerns me most in ht is the low hairlines done by some drs and while it may look wonderful but hairloss is progressive.

To rely on meds to keep there effectiveness is being a bit optimistic.

What happens later on when the meds stop working you end up with a low dense hairline thin or bald behind it and your donor exhausted

When you say Lorenzo gives a younger person a 50 year olds hairline that guy will hopefully be a 50 year old who will look better in my opinion with the age appropriate hairline with more density further back.

I'm approaching 50 and I don't want a youngster hairline at the price of less behind it I want uniform coverage if that is possible.

Thats just my opinion but each to their own I just hope the lower hairliners don't one day live to regret their decision.

To rely on some kind of miracle acurring before you start looking odd for your age is wishful thinking all of us have been praying for miracles since hairloss first started to bother us

Have a nice day

 

Erdogan is FAR more aggressive with hairlines you are correct. both are great and share similar techniques but Lorenzo is far too conservative with his hairlines.

 

yes it will require more hairs which is why Lorenzo's quote wud be less hairs simply cause ur getting less coverage. no ur not getting the same or better results with lorenzo ur simply getting less grafts.

 

its simple math. less grafts means density. there is no magic illusion the doctor is gonna perform. both have an extremely high graft survivability rate so imo I wud chose erdogan.

 

plenty of ppl bow down to lorenzo like he's the HT god but the simple fact is he is way too conservative with his hairlines and to be honest imo he isn't after that youthful appearance. he is after then conservative middle aged look of a 50 yr old man. which works for some ppl but those wanting a more aggressive youthful looking hairline wud chose Erdogan over lorenzo any day.

[wibbles180]

Here's a picture of my current hairloss , been on meds for about 4 years with good effect