The Road to Istanbul (to see Dr. Erdogan 1st week December)

[BetterLate]

[Message to Lurkers: I started posting this thread primarily thinking that it might be of some assistance to the vast number of you looking to glean information for help in making a decision. Please note that the “Join Date” in the header of my posts clearly reads November 2014… it was November 27, in fact--not even a month ago now. As I continue telling my story and offering my opinions, please be aware that the most useful information you may likely get here will come from any comments made by Senior Members whose depth of knowledge and experience far exceeds my own.]

 

hairweare, thank you for the vote of confidence. Your words of caution also ring very true. I’m still enjoying the “honeymoon stage”, gazing in the mirror at hair on my head where there hadn’t been any for many decades. Cautious optimism is probably the best policy. I guess we all learn to keep our fingers crossed? Thank you for the lead on the other thread, which I just read in its entirety.

 

Masato had a couple questions which I hadn’t addressed yet, and probably should right away since I’d been offline for so long after he’d asked them. I’ll give a quick overview of Dr. Erdogan’s involvement throughout the process, but first let me answer your question about whether or not I felt any pain during the procedures or afterwards.

 

I’d previously read that the only pain one feels during the transplant is when the anesthetic is administered by needle. I found this to be mostly true. I occasionally practice basic self-hypnosis, and was able to use it to avoid feeling that pain from the injections. However, with each 2,500 graft session taking multiple hours to complete the three stages of extraction, incision and implantation, a couple times I began to feel a little pain as the anesthetic started to wear off, at which point they numbed me again at the areas which had started to become sensitive.

 

After the first of the two surgeries, I was worried that I was going to feel pain that evening. To my surprise, I did not. I was given a pain pill that I did not even take. However, during the second surgery, donor hair was taken from square in the back of my head. Because you must sleep flat on your back for a few days, after the second procedure I did feel a fair bit of pain in the evenings when I was lying down trying to go to sleep. I ended up using one pain pill each night for two nights after that second procedure. After that, the pain subsided enough to where I didn’t have to take any more pills.

 

It has now been 13 days since my second surgery, and although I have not taken any pain more pills and have been able to sleep okay at night, I actually do feel a little sensation of pain occasionally. If I run my hands around over my donor area, I can feel that it is now fairly smooth since the scabs have come off, but I will also still feel the sensation of slight pain in certain areas as they are touched.

 

Keep in mind that I’m 58 years old, so I’m subject to the ravages of age on my metabolism, which basically translates into slower hair growth, slower healing, and a higher sensitivity to pain. And this pain that I still do feel is certainly not excruciating… more like a slight sensation than something cringe-worthy.

 

Regarding Dr. Erdogan’s personal involvement with me and my procedures, he met me on the day of my arrival at the clinic, right after my blood work and ECG were okayed and I’d had a first couple sets of pictures taken. I read somewhere at one point that it was necessary to use a translator to converse with him, but despite his asking me at one point if I could understand him all right, I found his English to be better than a lot of native-born speakers in Southern California.

 

He is extremely articulate, and spent about 45 minutes going over explanations of everything that would take place, from how he determines what punches they will use in which sections on my head to his analysis of what he thought I might reasonably expect from the surgery and whether or not that would meet my expectations, and so on. He took the measurement of my hair in different sections, asked about what I wanted for a hairline and proceeded to draw a couple options on me that looked pretty good, and then when we agreed that what I expected and what he thought might be accomplished were in sync, he sent me down to have my head shaved before we met again where I had another set of photographs taken.

 

During that first discussion in his office, he clearly explained to me that he would be making every single one of the 5,000 incisions himself, but that three of his nurse-technicians--each of them with between 8 and 10 years of experience--would be doing the extractions and then the implantations into the incisions that he would make. I know the preference for some people is that the doctors will do all parts of the procedure themselves. For me, with the dozens of results that I’d seen online and from the vouching of the Frenchman I’d met upon arrival who came for his own procedure after seeing what happened with his cousin’s surgery, I was content to go forward with the nurse-technicians who’d already been working with Dr. Erdogan performing procedures on hundreds and hundreds of patients for multiple years.

 

After my head was shaved and I was having the final pre-op photos taken, he brought in ~six nurse-technicians to discuss with them what the general plan for me would be, drew various hairlines on me while asking all of their opinions, and then showed me what he thought might be best. I agreed it looked good, then we talked for a few more minutes before all of them went back upstairs for a meeting to go over detailed blown-up photographs of my and another patient’s scalps to make a statistical surgical plan for the next day.

 

I know the clich?’ joke is that some of the doctors can run their practices like a mill, and then just sit back and sip tea all day long. On the contrary, Dr. Erdogan has a great work ethic and is at the clinic from the morning until the evening, taking part or monitoring all phases of the procedures. He came in multiple times while the nurses were working on me to discuss with them and then update me on if everything was going according to plan in regards to how many single/double/triple hair grafts of what thickness were being harvested by what diameter of punch, etc. The crucial and painstaking process of making all of the 5,000 incisions was done exclusively by him as he said it would be. Although completely exhausting, the surgical procedures went more smoothly than I ever could have imagined.

 

I think I already described a little bit of how high-tech and advanced the clinic’s facilities are. The clinic is as clean or cleaner than any hospital I’ve been inside of back here in Los Angeles. One of the main duties of the security guard at the front door is to make sure that everyone entering puts their feet down into a machine that automatically shrink-wraps plastic over your footwear so that you don’t trail and leave any contaminants inside from the bottoms of your shoes. Before you go into the main section of the building where the operating rooms are, you’ve already removed your own plastic-wrapped shoes and put on some of the clinic’s sterilized footwear… and then have swapped sterilized footwear yet again before you’re allowed through the final doors just to keep that whole area sterile.

 

To be continued

[Masato]

Thank you for your detailed response BetterLate and for remembering my questions! I really like your post-op pictures. The extractions and placement look very clean. Great hairline design too!!!! I think you're in for a fantastic result. Please keep us posted on your progress and good luck!

[johntra]

Hi BetterLate, first of all I want to congratulate you and wish you happy and fast growth. Second, I am very very happy to see that you did temple points because that is my wish as well. And it looks awesome. Now it's my turn

All the best

[NewLook2015]

Hi betterLate, appreciate your informative posts! And congrats on your ht! Saw the pre and post-op photos, the hairline looks great and the procedure neat! Happy growth here onwards!

 

For a 5000 graft, whats the quantity of anesthesia they inject? Seems pain due to injection is unavoidable, just want to get an idea on the number of injections to prepare myself mentally:) Also,

was your head sill swollen during flight back home?

 

Perhaps, I will pm you on the payment methods optimum for those of us in the US.

 

Look forward to your updates! Happy holidays!

[BetterLate]

NewLook2015,

 

My 5,000 grafts procedures were separated into two days of 2,500 each. During each day, it was approximately identical as far as the AM anesthetics went. They shot probably 8-10 small doses into the sides/back of my head before the extraction, and it probably took about 3-4 more shots in certain areas that became sensitive as the effect wore off a couple of hours later.

 

The first day, the next dosage of ~10 shots came after lunch before the incisions were made, after which time the implanting commenced immediately. I needed a couple more shots later on, but that carried me through the day.

 

However, the second day, the process was changed up a bit. I was given the second run of ~10 shots right after the extraction was completed and before the lunch break, because the incisions were made at that point--before lunch. I was still sufficiently numb after lunch to start the implantation, but probably ending up requiring ~6 more shots later in the afternoon that second day as the anesthetic wore off a little bit earlier than the first day.

 

Each shot is just a tad bit of the anesthetic, a little pump--it’s not like they’re emptying the whole syringe into you each time. I think I mentioned earlier that I practice basic self-hypnosis and I felt virtually nothing from most of the injections... but when I did feel anything, it was like a slight pin prick. But once you get those injections, you really don’t feel any kind of pain at all--just a dull sensation of what’s going on… and then whenever you do start to feel any pain as the anesthetic wears off, the booster shots will take care of that immediately.

 

The other patients I saw there also told me that the “pin prick” analogy is what they thought was a good comparison.

 

The first pain I really did end up feeling was after the second procedure when a lot of the back of my head was used as the donor area. That’s because you want to sleep flat on your back to protect the grafts for some days. They do give you an air pillow that helps a lot, but it did bother me enough so that I didn’t sleep well for the first couple of nights and ended up taking a pain pill each of those nights to help knock me out.

 

They also give you a cold gel pack to put on your face every hour. Because I was trying to be very religious about following all of the post-op instructions, the swelling was kept to a minimum by using that gel pack. I looked like I might have been pudgy-faced from too much ice cream and cookies, as opposed to the swelling I’d seen in pictures of others after their procedures.

 

One thing I might ought to mention is that I made sure to get the window seat in the very last row on my way back home after the surgeries. However unlikely it would have been, I didn't want to take any chances of anything weird happening due to other passengers dropping something on my head or some other such nonsense. On my flight there, I had a nice, young girl sitting behind me who slapped the top of my head a few times to get my attention as I was trying to sleep mid-flight. I was actually glad that happened so that I decided to take no chances on the way home.

 

Because of the peculiar technicalities, the most inexpensive way to deal with the rest of your payment is to take it all over in $US currency. Wiring over the initial deposit to lock in your date for surgery is no problem, but it all becomes prohibitively expensive to wire over the balance of payment after that. Sevinc (are you dealing with her?) can explain why. I bought a $5 money belt and carried all the cash in it under my shirt.

 

Also, be aware that there is a form you are supposed to fill out and hand in to the authorities as you leave the country if you carry out over $US10,000 in currency. If you don’t, your cash is subject to being confiscated. You should be able to ultimately get it back, but they can hold it while investigating if somehow those funds are tied to terrorism or drug trafficking. I completed the form and had it in the money belt with my cash as I went through the departure security checkpoint, but was never able to figure out where to hand in that required form... so I destroyed it during the flight to Istanbul. I would highly suggest filling out the form and at least having it on you if you, also, can't figure out where to turn it in. The US Government doesn’t care if you take out US$10,000+ in cash--they just want you to fill out/hand in the form.

 

If you have any other questions, let me know. I'm thinking of posting a little more info in the next few days while a lot is still fresh in my mind, but if you need to know something else I don't/haven't covered, feel free to send me a message.

Edited January 1, 2015 by BetterLate
Clarification of meaning

[BetterLate]

Masato, you are very welcome, and thank you for your questions. They were short and to the point. I’m sure that most people reading these threads also had those same questions, so they were a very helpful guide to use in trying to impart some useful information.

 

I know that it is of prime importance for some people that the doctor whose reputation interests them in a particular facility be involved “hands-on” in all aspects of the transplantation process. I can definitely understand and appreciate this sentiment, so as glowing as my reviews of Dr. Erdogan and his Asmed Clinic are, it’s important that I might have saved those prospective patients a lot of time and consideration by detailing that although he makes every single incision on all of the patients himself, Dr. Erdogan does not currently do all of the extraction and implantation. Indeed, he did not do any on me, and, as far as I know, on any of the other patients who were at the clinic at the same time I was.

 

[i logged on again to add this comment in an edit because I started thinking it’s possible that if this one posting is read as a stand-alone, it could be misleading. My first response to Masato from December 20 goes over the extensive personal involvement Dr. Erdogan had with me and my surgical procedure. Between spending a lengthy amount of time in consultation with me alone, then together with his nurse-technicians, then at meetings to plan my surgery and finally monitoring my procedure as it actually took place and following up with discussions after the procedures were finished, his involvement was much greater than simply making all the incisions… and I probably shouldn’t say “simply”, since many believe that the incisions are the most crucial part of the surgical process.]

 

One of the deciding factors that had led me to go with Dr. Erdogan was looking at the published results of his patients on the internet. I figured that since most--if not entirely all--of their extraction/implantation work had been done by his nurse-technicians who’ve been working with him for multiple years, and, since the ones assigned to me both days had 8-10 years of experience with him, I was okay with that. Knowing how many surgeries in the United States are actually performed by medical students every year pretty much made trusting his nurse-technicians a non-issue for me. However, just as I would not want to be one of the first patients of a medical student regardless of what the procedure was, I absolutely would not want to be one of the first patients of a hair graft extractor/implantor. That would and should definitely be a valid concern for everyone… at any facility in any country.

 

I know that the debate about how much work the doctor should be doing himself will continue in these forums, just as will the FUT vs. FUE debate. I would encourage anyone in the decision-making process to read as much as you can about these and the other major issues and pay extra attention to the opinions of the more-experienced members. Even if you disagree with their opinions--more often than not, they disagree with each other... which is what gives us even better insight into both sides of the arguments--it will definitely assist you in making an educated choice as far as what makes the most sense for you, personally.

 

johntra, I know you'll be going soon. If you have any last-minute questions, let me know and I'll be happy to answer them. Best to send me a private message at this late date so I'll be sure to get it in time. If it's of general interest, I'll also post the answer here on this thread. It's an all-around great experience there... I'm willing to lay down the big bets you'll be very happy!

Edited January 1, 2015 by BetterLate
Add in clarification comment to prevent negative inferences

[BetterLate]

This is a cell phone photo of the front of head from last night... it's been 30 days today since the hairline/front was done.

 

January 3rd photo, shot of work done December 5th

 

After two and a half weeks, a lot of the transplanted hairs started falling out. By three weeks/a few days later, a lot more had fallen out and since then it's looked pretty much the same way that it does in this photo.

 

I'm assuming it's expected that it might be like this... the start of the "ugly duckling" phase.

Edited January 5, 2015 by BetterLate
Removing unnecessary question

[BetterLate]

TAKING CASH PAYMENT TO THE ASMED CLINIC... or to actually anywhere outside of the USA, from the USA

 

I've been asked a few times to clarify my posting earlier about taking over US$10,000 in "monetary instruments" from the USA to Turkey and filling out the required declaration, so I will answer here in the public forum in case more people still have the same questions.

 

First of all, that only relates to departing from the USA with the US$10,000. If you depart from the USA but are picking up your cash in another location on the way there, it has no relevance. However, there is no reason to plan on picking up your money in a third country if it will cost anything just to accomplish that, because as long as you complete the required form, you can take as much in US$ as you want with you from the USA and it is perfectly legal.

 

The Turkish authorities do not have any requirements regarding importation of any amount of cash, as far as I was able to ascertain... and I did look into it. However, if I am not correct regarding that conclusion, could somebody please add clarification?

 

The form (FinCEN 105) is required to be filled out and turned in before you get onto the airplane. I completed the form, but then could not remember where to hand it in since I was dealing with complications from my cancelled flight. As long as I had the form with me--and with the cash--I assumed that I would have been okay. It should be easy to figure out where to turn it in--it's in the instructions. I'd just been so stressed out about the delay my trip that I plain forgot what to do with the form.

 

Strictly by the books, if you are caught with over US$10,000 in monetary instruments (currency, endorsed checks, etc.) without attempting to turn in FinCEN 105, your cash is subject to confiscation.

 

You are probably going to get back every single penny if they do take the money from you, but there will be a delay (and we're not talking five minutes--you will not be able to take the money with you) as they run an official investigation to determine if those funds are tied to terrorism or drug trafficking.

 

Here is a link to the form:

 

http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin105_cmir.pdf

 

I beg for apology if necessary. I know we're not supposed to link to unapproved doctors, but I'm assuming that linking to a required US Government Form that many users from the USA need to fill out in order to avoid having their cash confiscated as they depart the country is all right?

 

The safety of carrying so much cash was a big concern for me, but moreso in Los Angeles as opposed to in transit. However, I kept it in a money belt concealed under my tucked-in shirt all the way until I was on my way out of the airport after the Asmed driver picked me up.

 

Asmed will accept payment in either Euro or US$ based upon the prevailing rate of exchange at the exact time you make your payment. The charges are calculated in Euro, so if the dollar is becoming stronger relative to the Euro, those of us from the US will realize some savings when we actually pay the bill. Likewise, if the Euro is getting stronger, we'll end up paying slightly more.

 

It makes no sense to convert our US$ to Euro. The rate they will calculate will be the average rate at the exact time of conversion, and you will pay no commission on the exchange. Only if you foresee a substantial collapse in the value of the US$ before your appointment would it begin to make any sense to convert to Euros in advance.

 

I hope this is clear. I had just wanted to mention this potential problem for us Yankees because it seems fairly important, and I didn't see it covered anywhere before. (I could be wrong on that--I may just not have seen it as I scoured the forum.)

 

Personally, it would have devastated me to have had all of my cash confiscated on the way out of the country after having gone through all of the stress and anxiety that I'm guessing all of us have gone through by time we're going to be getting onto an airplane for our trip abroad for what we're hoping will be a life-changing surgery.

 

And if anyone is wondering if this ever really happens to anyone, yes, it does, and that's how I became aware of it. (It happened to an antique dealer I know who always carries tons of cash everywhere... he still does, but now fills out the form every time. It took a couple months for him to get all his money back.)

[BetterLate]

In the spirit of making what is likely to be my one and only thread on the board of more use to the Lurkers in the audience, and, realizing that outside of showing future results from my surgery once I’m past the proverbial “ugly duckling” stage some months from now I have few methods at my disposal to achieve that goal, I decided that I will now add a “Top 10” list before I temporarily disappear.

 

TOP TEN THINGS FOR A NEWBIE TO DO WHEN HE HAS DECIDED HE ABSOLUTELY 100% WILL GET A HAIR TRANSPLANT

 

Number 10

Officially join the forum by getting an ID so you can ask the exact questions you really should have answered by those who have been-there/done-that… before you send in a deposit to lock in your surgery date.

 

This is probably even most crucial if you have already decided on your doctor/clinic and believe that you no longer really need to hear anyone else’s opinions or advice regarding your particular situation.

 

Since you are even reading this random posting by this barely-not-a-Newbie, the odds are very good that you have been doing very extensive research. You may even have learned so much that it almost seems like it would be a complete waste of time and effort to log onto the forum and make your first posting something like: “Thinking of making appointment with Dr. X—any opinions or advice for me?” and including a few photos of your existing hair.

 

But the fact that you ever sought out this forum indicates that you do understand the value that the experience of others can offer you. For that matter, some of the users here who, themselves, have yet to have a transplant--and may not even end up getting one--will also have some very worthwhile insight for you.

 

Because there can be so many varied opinions and disagreements amongst the members on almost any topic--and, especially concerning the appropriateness of certain surgeons in certain cases--that, in itself, offers you the potential opportunity to hear exactly what you need to hear in order to verify for yourself that whatever decision you’ve made on a particular doctor/clinic is the right one.

 

Or, who knows… maybe you’ll discover just one single thing that you didn’t know beforehand which is extremely important to you, in particular, that could change your mind about your favored surgeon/clinic--and you’ll be pretty darn happy that you found out that one little item before it was too late.

 

When we’ve absolutely made up our minds is the exact point in time where we’ve got to take that one final step back and ask ourselves if there could be anything at all that we haven’t considered.

 

Which brings us to:

 

Number 9

Since you have absolutely determined once and for all that you really are going to get a hair transplant, ask yourself just one more time if you really are sure that it truly is the correct decision.

 

Exactly what are you looking to accomplish--just replacing follicles? Have you gotten any feedback from anyone that you truly care about in this life that they will love and respect you more if you had additional hairs sprouting from your skull?

 

In my particular case, I started making my final decision by rationalizing that I was going forward primarily for “business” reasons. Objectively, that was the only reason I could seize upon to convince myself to opt into elective (and, by virtue of its very definition, unnecessary) surgery.

 

To quote myself from an earlier post: Make no mistake about it--hair transplants are surgical procedures. My hair transplant was my first surgery ever. And I hope it will be my last. I truly am a wimp when it comes to anything medically invasive… yet I had 5,000 holes poked into my head to extract 5,000 hair grafts, had 5,000 incisions made into my head to make way for the final assault of 5,000 implantations shoved into those incisions. The fact that my surgeries were virtually pain-free did not diminish their invasiveness.

 

I’d calculated that I had ~100% justification for going for my hair transplant. In my job (of high-end sales), looking at least as young and full of energy as I actually do feel will virtually without doubt make it so much easier for me to close more deals going forward. It really would have been economically foolish to not have gone forward with a hair transplant.

 

Right. Right?

 

My alternate voice of internal reason agreed to go along with this scenario, since the likely rewards over the costs of putting forth that more youthful fa?ade… blah blah blah.

 

But the most important (and only?) reason was merely the personal one of how I would feel about myself after (hopefully!) making myself look younger and more physically attractive.

 

So, if I hadn’t yet done it, but did have the perspective that I do now right at this moment in time (just over one month since the first surgery while I look like total crap… which I will continue to do for some months to come), would I still do it?

 

I could go back to my original question to you: Had I ever gotten any feedback from anyone I truly care about in this life that they will love and respect me more if I had additional hairs sprouting from my skull?

 

For me, the answer is definitely No.

 

And, for you?

 

If the answer is Yes--don’t even think of delaying any longer. You need no more justification/rationalization that you should go forward. Finish deciding on a surgeon, seek final opinions/advice and change your mind if necessary, then make an appointment and get yourself in there ASAP.

 

Assuming, though, that the answer to that question for you is also No--that going through the surgery will have no positive effect on the people you really do care about and love--then it obviously is a decision for you like it was for me… one that you will make for yourself and your own personal vision of the future.

 

So then it totally becomes an intellectual decision with a decidedly generational twist.

 

If you are fairly young, does it make even more sense to hesitate than for the usual reasons put forth? Everyone loves and respects youth far more than a full head of hair. Time is absolutely on the side of the young--always has been, always will be… too bad we don’t always stay young.

 

Hair cloning is guesstimated to be five years away by the top two pioneers in the field. If that is the case, you need not give up any single strip of flesh nor have multi-thousands of holes punched into your head to provide extracted grafts. That alone could be worth hesitating for.

 

But no matter what your age, it could make sense to consider the lessons of Dr. Maxwell Maltz, an early, famous plastic surgeon. He noticed that often times patients who had completely successful operations which perfectly repaired physical defects would be as--or even more--miserable after the surgery as they had been before.

 

He likewise found that when his patients took up his offer of psychological counseling and agreed to just imagine that they had gone through the procedure for a period of time, many of them ultimately opted to not go forward with surgery… because they found that it was really only their self-image that need an adjustment, not their physical body.

 

There was no objective way to measure it, but he swore that his patients who decided against plastic surgery and just changed the way they thought about themselves ended up being far happier than even the patients who went through successful surgery and enjoyed their new look.

 

Dr. Maltz ended up writing a famous book back in the day (he died in 1975) that helped revive the “Self-help”/”Motivational” industry from the 1930s. Probably most-famously for the generation just behind mine, Tony Robbins of Unlimited Power/Personal Power fame based his books and philosophies primarily on that book by Dr. Maltz, Psycho-Cybernetics.

 

However we learn the lesson and from whom is not important. What is important is to realize that our self-image matters infinitely more than our actual physical image. And, knowing this, time is really always on our side. There is no reason to ever be in a hurry.

 

So, since you’re not in a hurry, even though you’ve made your decision that you are definitely going to get a hair transplant and that decision is final… you really do have enough time to stand back and ask yourself just once more if you really are sure that it’s the correct decision.

 

Which leads us to:

 

Number 8

[1966kph]

Again betterlate compulsive reading.

I have been debating with myself for about 15 years whether to go for a ht.

My wife is adamant that I don't need one but ultimately she supports my decision as I have within the last fortnight decided I am going to and hopefully have the full result by the time I turn 50 next year.

I have asked myself thousands of times if its the right move but as I have suffered hairloss for over half my life I feel I have suffered enough.

My biggest reason why I had not had one before was money as having a young family at the time I never wanted them to endure any hardship just so I could have hair on top of my head.

I would rather suffer than them and I never wanted to have far less to leave them when I turn my toes up not that it will be much any way.

Thank you on behalf of the community for taking the time and effort to be imformative to others.

I for one look forward to the next chapters.

Have a nice day

[NewLook2015]

Agree Betterlate, not surprising how we go through similar thought processes when it comes to a surgical procedure, in this case hair transplant. The intellectual side of it and the value added (hopefully) given the physical appearance.

 

Thanks for providing the link to financial disclosure! Just hope they don't come up with stricter measures on carrying cash in view of the tragedy in Paris.

 

BTW, what is Dr Erdogan's policy on corrective/follow up work in case results were not satisfactory. Hope this does not happen to anyone but thought you may have inquired this during your visit there.

[waittosee]

very informative writing BetterLate, thank you and keep it coming..

[BetterLate]

While sneaking a short break, I wanted to log on to congratulate and wish well one of our fellow users who just went through his own procedure yesterday in Istanbul. He’s a very nice and articulate young man (of course, everyone on here is a “young” man to an old guy) who mentioned that he was going to recount his own experiences, so I did the basic search of forum posts and found the start of this thread:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177787-booked-dr-koray-09-01-a.html

 

Although I’m pretty sure his ultimate experience will end up as positive as mine, any which way it went down and however he feels while he’s sitting at home now that it’s all over, it’s good that he’ll be adding his own perspective into the mix.

 

There's no decent research substitute for reading about the personal experiences of as many users as possible who’ve been to and researched all of the different facilities one might be considering for their own HT... and, with that in mind, now's as good a time as any for me to again thank everyone who posted all of their own information, experiences, advice and opinions the past few years which proved so invaluable to me.

 

Without further ado, THANKS!

 

I’m in the middle of working another marathon day, but since I saw there are a few messages here on my own thread, I’ll try to log on again this evening and respond to any questions.

[BetterLate]

1996kph,

 

With such a long wait, you are definitely a candidate for the “Patience is a Virtue” award. The great news, though, is that since you’ve been waiting for 15 years, with all of the progress that has been made in the hair transplant industry during that time, you seem much more likely to be insured of getting the result that you really want today than ever before.

 

Especially commendable is the reason for your delay. Sometimes the sacrifices we make create their own unique rewards, and I’ve got to believe everything will end up turning out better than you’ve ever imagined. Since you’ve been using the medications to keep any further loss at bay as much as possible before any surgery and have also been researching on this forum for five years running now, you are pretty much the poster child for someone who has been actively creating his own future “luck”.

 

Luck = culmination of hard work + sacrifice + positive attitude toward adversity… although mere chance does play a very small part

 

 

NewLook2015,

 

That value-added aspect of the surgery is definitely something to keep in mind while going through the post-surgery ugly stage.

 

Before addressing your question, as long as I mentioned the “ugly” part of the long process, I’d have to say that, to be honest, it’s nowhere near as bad as I was thinking it would be. I ended up deciding that I wouldn’t try to hide my bald head after the scabs all came off, which has ended up making everything a lot easier. I only wear a hat under the sun. The funny thing is, almost everyone I’ve seen (make no mistake about it--I try to avoid seeing anyone unless I must) has just asked me if I’m going to keep my head so close-shaved from now on or if I was just trying it out to do something different. Even though there are a bunch of little hairs covering a good-sized area where I’ve been bald for 30 years+, no one seems to notice. And as the redness has been fading out, that’s only caused people to remark that I’d better be sure to wear a hat outside because my scalp seems like it’s getting a little bit burned.

 

I’d only told a couple friends I did the transplant. One of them proceeded to announce it a group of our mutual friends. I’m wondering if she hadn’t said anything, would the long-term (hoped-for) filling in of the hair have been gradual enough so that no one would have ended up noticing what was happening right before their eyes… until, of course, they compared the newer me--whatever I finally look like when everything shakes out--to an older picture.

 

Now, to address your specific question about Dr. Erdogan’s policy on corrective/follow-up work due to unsuccessful results: The very short answer is that I have no idea because I did not inquire.

 

The longer answer is that there are a couple of options for you to find out. If you are not in touch with any particular liaison yet at the clinic, I could give you the contact information of my liaison (Sevinc), who I’m sure will answer that and any other question that you do have in short order. The other option is that you could contact Denny (Denison Caldeiron), who is a member of this forum and does rep work for Dr. Erdogan/Asmed Clinic, and find out from him.

 

Without knowing the policy, the best example I could give you of my opinion that you will probably like the answer to your question is that at the tail end of the time when I was talking with Dr. Erdogan in his office about what I truly wanted vs. what he might be able to do for me, he strongly hinted that although he believed he could help me achieve my stated goal with the surgery, it was definitely still an option for me to just try Finasteride first to see if those results alone might satisfy me… that the cost of my round-trip ticket paled in comparison to the cost of surgery, if money were the main object of consideration.

 

When I told him that I’d already made the firm decision to go forward with the surgery, he then told me that from his experience, I could likely prevent need for any necessary follow-up surgery for my crown area by still beginning a Finasteride regimen with the specific goal of keeping/possibly re-growing enough of the native crown hair so that I’d be satisfied with only one single round of surgery.

 

There is another newer user on this forum (who goes by the name of Bahrain) who wrote that when he visited Dr. Erdogan, he was encouraged to reschedule his appointment and hold off on any procedures for six months to see what Finasteride might to do for him… that it would be better to see how much of his existing hair might be retained so there would be a more accurate estimation of what needed to be done with surgery.

 

I’m sure most Doctors/Clinics are as honest and forthright as is Dr. Erdogan. But I can only speak from my own personal experience and that which I’ve heard from others which I believe to be true. He could have easily lost me as a client--and he could still lose Bahrain as a client--simply by being conscientious enough to be looking out for our best interests over and beyond the profit that he would make from us by our having our HTs done at his facility ASAP... before we might have changed our minds and gone somewhere else.

 

I’ve been accused of being an ignorant cheerleader for Dr. Erdogan, and, in response to the criticism, have attempted to tone down my enthusiasm for the Asmed Clinic. However, I’ve decided to temporarily break with such efforts for a moment to say here that from my personal experience, I really do believe that he not only runs one of the most incredibly clean and efficient business operations I’ve ever encountered, but also shows the utmost care and ethical behavior to all of his patients. Due to my unintentionally spending a week there after a fiasco with my plane flights, I met at least eight different patients from Australia, Sweden, England, Italy, Spain, and a local Turkish physician-patient as well, and not a single one of them expressed anything but satisfaction with the way they were treated--surgically and personally--by Dr. Erogan and everyone else at the clinic.

 

Please understand that I’m definitely not suggesting you don’t make your inquiry. Indeed--this is such a huge decision to make that you need to take every single possible step/precaution to make sure that you’re making the right one for you, personally. You absolutely should find out what their policy is regarding dissatisfied clients if that is one of your criteria in choosing where you will go for your procedure.

 

Along those lines, if it would be helpful--since I know you realize that even though Dr. Erdogan does all of the incisions, his techs will do the extractions and implantations--if you do ultimately decide to go to Asmed, you could prevent any fears of a crap shoot by requesting that you have available to you the same tech team which I had. My three techs all had between 8-10 years’ experience, and one of the Asmed staff who had a transplant, himself, told me that the lead of my team is one that he had requested for his own HT… so I’m sure you could feel fairly safe/comfortable with this particular group.

 

If Sevinc is not your liaison/contact, you could just tell your own to let Sevinc know that you’d like my techs… whom you could also identify as the three-team techs who were all in the HBO TV series Game of Thrones.

 

 

Waittosee,

 

Thank you for your very nice compliment and inspiration.

 

Unfortunately, due to my ineptness at cutting and pasting, my Top 10 List became a Top 2 List.

 

(I lost Numbers 8 through 1.)

 

I'll laugh about in a few days.

 

For now, I hope you really did enjoy Numbers 10 and 9!

Edited January 11, 2015 by BetterLate
Remove superfluous info

[BetterLate]

NewLook2015,

 

Got your private message in e-mail.

 

Sorry that I’m way way short on any free time but wanted to quickly log on and try to give you a little of what you asked for, since I know what it’s like to be where you are right now and I’d like to try to be of some assistance in making up your mind/feeling better about making a decision.

 

Pix not good—just by myself and took on cell phone in mirror… hope they’re better than nothing.

 

Quick Pix

 

Top of my head looks maybe same as last single pic I posted… not much different even though week+ later. I can feel that there is a little more going on when I brush my hand over my head, though.

 

Sides when viewed in person do not show any detail of extractions. Those who were not told I have a transplant have no clue. Those who were told still can’t see anything missing from sides/back at this point… some have said it seems like it was probably just a few scattered hairs placed on front for minimal effect.

 

I’m older, so growth has been very slow but that’s what I expected. Healing was pretty quick, though.

 

Seven weeks out now, and I’ve just started to put on seminars again. In my opinion I definitely do not look as good as I did before I had my surgery. I probably could be (for lack of a better description) “uptight” about it, but I made a decision to possibly not look that good for a temporary period of time so that I could look (in my own mind, at least) more handsome and youthful for the longer haul.

 

I’ve actually noticed that the overall reaction I’ve gotten from audiences is even better than before… probably because I’m overcompensating by trying to project increased confidence? I’d certainly rather have more hair right now, but regardless of how odd I look to myself when I gaze in the mirror, the people who’ve never met me before and who have no idea what I ever used to look like are not bothered in the slightest by my fairly bald head.

 

So, my personal advice is don’t worry about making public appearances. I obviously would wait for the scabs to fall off, but if you really are ready to make your move (and you very well could be, judging from all the trails you’ve left in these forums which I sped-read) don’t let the “ugly-duckling” stage deter you.

 

Now, that being said, if your hesitancy has a more profound and deeper basis, there would be no harm in waiting.

 

Re: the techs at Dr. Erdogan’s, I did not use the one you inquired about. johntra (whose thread I linked to previously) recently did, and he was very happy. She probably has more experience than almost anybody doing FUE anywhere? She's been Dr. E’s closest aide from the start, if I’m not mistaken.

 

If I had it to do over again, I’d still request the ones I got… the Game of Thrones gals.

 

There was a DJ back in the old days named Frazer Smith who had a famous saying, “Too hip, gotta go!”

 

Well, I ain’t too hip, but I gotta go. Good Luck. No matter what you do, please post so everyone can follow. I think you will be a fantastic resource for the fabled Newbies/Lurkers behind us…

Edited January 20, 2015 by BetterLate
Realized I made a typo after I hit the POST button

[NewLook2015]

Thanks for the update Betterlate! Visuals are always better to get an idea of the various stages of recovery.

 

Though this may sound trivial, but any suggestions on a suitable type of hat? Seems you flew back a day after your surgery. Would you recommend that? Most flights to east coast from Istanbul has layover in Europe and its a long flight nonetheless. I'm also debating between booking my return flight on the 2rd day post-op or even stay a bit longer (hopefully ASMED will continue the special rate). I read in one of the posts that the grafts are securely anchored/taken hold by 4th day so less risk due to wearing a hat. But ideally, I should return back as soon as possible.

 

Based on other documentations here, your growth will begin at faster pace soon... finger crossed!

[NewLook2015]

Thanks for the update Betterlate! Visuals are always better to get an idea of the various stages of recovery.

 

Though this may sound trivial, but any suggestions on a suitable type of hat? Seems you flew back a day after your surgery. Would you recommend that? Most flights to east coast from Istanbul has layover in Europe and its a long flight nonetheless. I'm also debating between booking my return flight on the 2rd day post-op or even stay a bit longer (hopefully ASMED will continue the special rate). I read in one of the posts that the grafts are securely anchored/taken hold by 4th day so less risk due to wearing a hat. But ideally, I should return back as soon as possible.

 

Based on other documentations here, your growth will begin at faster pace soon... finger crossed!

[jonnyalex]

delete-posted in wrong area.

Edited January 21, 2015 by jonnyalex

[BetterLate]

NewLook2015,

 

Asmed will give you a hat. It looks like a fishing hat, is comfortable and very loose. Whether or not there’s anything special about it for not irritating the grafts I don’t know, but it’s the only hat I’ve worn since the surgery.

 

I only wore it a few times indoors until the scabs came off--I mostly tried to avoid seeing people as much as I could the first days when I looked the worst. I’ll continue wearing the hat outside under the sun for the coming months… I think somewhere I read we should be especially careful of burning our scalps/the recipient areas for the first six months?

 

Since my surgeries were split, I flew back two days after the second/five days after the first. Use the ice-type pack that they’ll give you religiously (few minutes per hour?) across your eyes after the surgeries and the swelling will not be that bad at all… or at least it wasn’t for me.

 

I did not wear a hat at the airport/on the flight… again, for the reason you mentioned—I didn’t want to irritate the grafts in the early days. The first time I ever wore it was back in Los Angeles.

 

In my opinion, judging from everything you’ve said that I’ve read, you should fly back ASAP. I don’t think you’ll be buying anything by staying there. You might be able to get a special rate at the hotel if you stayed extra days, but no matter how nice the room/view is or incredible the breakfast buffet is, I really do believe you’ll be much better off just getting home.

 

The ice pack will alleviate the swelling so you won’t look that bad, don’t wear the hat on the trip home so you won’t worry about hurting your transplanted grafts, and then recover on your own turf where you’ll be able to have the most control over making yourself as comfortable as possible. It can be hard to sleep well while trying to protect your grafts, and at home you can choose a reclining chair (if you’ve got one, it’s not a bad option), arranging a bunch of extra pillows on your bed—you’ll just have so many extra ways of setting yourself at ease at home than you’ll have at the cushy hotel.

 

Don’t forget, though, that you will want to let them do a final washing for you the morning after your second surgery. That could control the timing of your trip home depending on what time your available flights are?

[NewLook2015]

Thanks for taking the time to write back, Betterlate!

 

I've also read that clinics provide a spray to keep the recipient & donor areas moist. Does the security allow it? I guess during long flights, it makes sense to have it in carry-on and use it a few times?!

[BetterLate]

You're welcome, NewLook2015!

 

Yes, Dr. Erdogan will write a cover letter that you can give to security at the airport to let you take the spray with you onto the airplane.

 

I would definitely spray it on as directed... I can't remember how often, but obviously you'll be told.

 

And don't forget to use the icepack religiously while you're still at the clinic and after you get home for however long they tell you--it really does keep the swelling down to a minimum.

 

Two more things:

 

I think the PRP treatment might be worth doing. It won't help grow hair, but it really did seem to help with the healing.

 

My surgeries were three days apart. I got the PRP after the second surgery. The difference in healing between the first and second surgery areas was fairly pronounced. They did the PRP treatment in both areas, but the second area healed much more rapidly than the first. I'm assuming it was because the treatment was done on it while the "wounds" were still fresh, as opposed to the first area which was already three days into a slow-healing process.

 

If you do back-to-back days, I'd guess that you'd get great results with both areas of surgery. My logic may be off, and the way I healed could have had other reasons, but that was definitely my experience.

 

I think you'd be okay without it, but if I remember correctly, you will be getting back to work soon so it might be worth speeding up the process a little bit.

 

Maybe ask for opinions from others who've tried it, since the PRP does cost a little bit extra?

 

Lastly, you can buy Finasteride from Dr. Erdogan at a very good price. It comes as "Proscar" (same drug) in 5 mg tablets that you can cut into fours (of 1.25 mg each). I bought a pill cutter for a couple bucks at a pharmacy around the corner about a two minute walk from Asmed. Sevinc can tell you exactly where--you'll probably meet her whether or not she's your rep. It's a lot better than paying much higher prices for the 1 mg Finasteride tablets.

 

Hope that helps...

 

By the way, I happened to see that the timing of my post said I'm leaving this reply at 10:30AM. It's actually 2:30AM in Los Angeles, which I only mention because since you might be leaving soon, I've been checking to see if you've left another post/question before I call it a night. I'll try to keep responding to any final questions, but just realize it may take awhile just because I put in absolutely ridiculous hours the first few months of the year.

Edited January 30, 2015 by BetterLate
Final few sentence sign-off

[NewLook2015]

Appreciate your informative replies, Betterlate!

 

As for the 2K euro deposit to secure the surgery dates, I wonder which option is more economical: transfer through my bank, money gram, western union. Haven't used money gram before but seems my bank provides cheaper transfer fees than western union. Which mode of payment did you end up using?

 

There seems to be a bit of confusion as I wanted my surgery in March but the ASMED email stated April, so hoping Sevinc, who has been very helpful, sorts it out.

 

Yea, i might consider PRP, have already started Fin. Hope there is minimum side effect.

[BetterLate]

NewLook2015, I used an international wire transfer to send my money. When I called my bank, they told me it was (if I remember correctly) ~$25 and I just went for it immediately.

 

If you can do Western Union and the other method online, I'd give them a quick look. The only time I ever used Western Union in the past, it was pre-internet days and I had to go down to an office which was not very close, so I didn't readily think of them as an option.

 

When I was scanning the threads one time weeks back, I read someone (could have even been you?) asking at one point if Pay Pal would work. The question had just been posted so I don't know what the answer was. On the surface, it seems like that would simplify the entire payment process, but having only use PP one time, that idea is definitely more of a question than a pronouncement.

 

I've not yet had any noticeable side effects from Finasteride. From what I'd read, the one we all worry about the most is not very common, and so far it appears that I'm on the good side of those statistics.

 

I actually took it for a few months when it was first approved for hair loss prevention many years ago, but stopped after reading some scary literature. However, I have a brother-in-law who began taking it at the same time and has continued non-stop. He's maintained the hair that he had at that time and has never had any issues with any side effects.

 

I think that for guys my age, there are far fewer concerns about secondary long-term side effects, considering that we will probably need to be taking some form of Finasteride/Proscar for our prostate health at some point soon.

 

For younger guys like you today, the fact that so many men have been taking it for such long periods of time offers current statistical data that is much more reliable than had been available to us older guys when it first came on the market. it seems like as long as you know what could happen, it's fairly easy to make an informed decision.

 

There is no doubt that there are great potential benefits to taking it in regards to native hair loss prevention.

 

I hope you can get in at the most convenient time for you. I'm not sure how flexible you are, but I know that when I asked about filling in a cancellation, there was one spot that was offered to me. A short-notice flight from LAX was going to be considerably more expensive than an advance reservation. But although Asmed would have made some considerations to take the bite away, in the end the timing just wouldn't work for me.

[CAMPBELL]

Hat advice: I was given the 'standard issue' fishing hat with brim all around. It didn't work for me personally as it sat too high on my head (I had a sweat band around my head too) & looked ridiculous. So, being Istanbul it had lots of great market stalls & cheap shops that sold bandanas that 'I found' were more comfortable & less silly looking (& drew no attention from others).

 

Anyway, it seemed to work for me. Good Luck.

[NewLook2015]

My bank fee was $35 for 2K Euros, and western union was charging $126 so I went to for the former option. So yea, finally made the plunge and booked my surgery 3rd week of March. Though slightly pricy but noticed direct round trip flights from East Coast to Istanbul although not sure if 11 hr flight would be a better idea than a stop in Europe. Still pondering on flying on 4th or 5th day post-op as that will also depend on optimum flight rates. Just read another patient's experience where he stayed for 10 days at Radisson and he had his daily washes at the clinic. Hope all is going well with you, Betterlate!

 

Thanks for the hat advice, Campbell and the pm! yea, i was in Istanbul a couple of years ago and touring the bazars was among the highlights!