The Road to Istanbul (to see Dr. Erdogan 1st week December)

[NewLook2015]

Another issue to inquire was if Dr E requires to sign some type of legal document... what's the word - liability waiver -- and what it entails? Seems most such clinics may require one, and i wouldn't be surprised if ASMED do the same. OR it's one of those things common in the west and not in Turkey?!

[BetterLate]

Hey NewLook2015, it’s getting close to March so the anticipation must be building?

 

From LA, it was a ~12-hour flight straight to Istanbul with Turkish Airlines. It would have cost me not even close to $100 more for flights that would have taken 23 hours with short stopovers, so there was really no decision. If I were younger, maybe I would have tried to save the few bucks for fun and figured I might meet some interesting people at the Moscow airport, but those days are gone.

 

From my perspective, I still think you’re better off booking it straight back home ASAP. It’s nice to get the daily washes, but if money is even the beginning of an issue, it’s probably even nicer to be back at home and not paying ~80 Euro/night at the Radission, despite the fantastic breakfast buffet.

 

And, don’t forget that the Radisson doesn’t have hospital beds, so it won’t be that comfortable after your second surgery. It will be easier for you to create a nice setup in your own bedroom for the few nights that you’ll want to be on a slight incline than it would be to do so at the Radisson... or the Pera Palas (used to be the top hotel in Istanbul/Western Asia back in the day) or any five-star hotel.

 

The washing is not that tough to do on your own. I was very worried about screwing up because my scalp was still very numb during those first ten days, but it’s really pretty easy after they show you what to do and give you video instructions to take along with you back home on DVD.

 

As a matter of fact, today was the first day that my numbness feels like it’s almost completely gone. It’s been about sixty days now since my second surgery. I understand any sensation of numbness can vary from person to person, and I’d expect it might be longer for me due to the age factor, so there you go for the benchmark on the long side, I’m guessing.

 

You don’t sign any legal document. It’s sort of like the old handshake scenario from the old days of business. I think once you meet Dr. Erodgan, you’ll be very comfortable with that scenario. He seems to be highly ethical, and even if he weren’t, you’d have any basic protection you might need by virtue of the fact that anyone with a horrible experience with him is very likely to post their nightmare on this and every other such web site around the world.

 

Once you enter the Asmed clinic, it will be easy to see that a lot of money has been plowed back into the infrastructure of the entire business operation. It’s quite impressive, to say the least. Dr. Erdogan’s obviously in this for the long haul, and isn’t going to jeopardize a very good thing by allowing you to experience any monkey business that might ruin his reputation, I’d be sure. And you won’t pay a penny until Sevinc will have already given you a tour and taken you through some prep work to get ready to sit down with him for a detailed discussion/consultation. Only when you’re comfortable and ready to proceed will you bring out any cash. It’s a completely low-pressure situation, and a highly pleasant one at that. The best part is when it will strike you that you probably made an excellent decision.

 

It strikes me that since some people have found that the anesthetic injections themselves are very painful, might it be worth your checking out learning some basic self-hypnosis to help you avoid that pain? I’m sure that there must be some tutorials on the internet to teach one how to do it. I learned it almost 40 years ago after listening just a few times to a 45-minute cassette tape (in the pre-video era) made by a classic entertainer who had a nightclub on the Sunset Strip in Hollywood. Her name was Pat Collins. She taught many celebrities self-hypnosis techniques, so was very good at explaining the process even for a mere mortal such as myself. If anything by her still exists for sale, it might be worth checking out.

 

I'm by no means an expert, but have employed it to varying degrees on a daily basis for decades, and I guarantee you it’s an extremely effective tool for many aspects of life. Pain avoidance is one of the least interesting things you can achieve with it.

 

If you don’t want to bother learning it but want the “Cliff Notes” version of what one might do, I can tell you that the basic technique I used for the injections was telling myself that my scalp was like a block of wood and that the needle for the injections was just the technicians pressing on that wood with the eraser end of a pencil. I basically felt pressure being applied, but no real semblance of pain. Some people who are really good could go through the entire procedure with any anesthesia at all, but I certainly am not on that level… and, as time wore on and the anesthetics began to wear off, I absolutely requested more injections to stop the discomfort caused by the surgical processes.

 

I don’t think I look that much different to myself from a month ago, but if it would be helpful, I’ll see if I can get some pictures taken in the coming days and post them so you can see where my regrowth stands at the two-month-plus mark. If I can’t get photos taken, maybe I’ll try to put up a couple cell phone pictures… and try to make sure they’ll be better than last time.

Edited February 11, 2015 by BetterLate
Alter sentence for clarity

[ready4Hair]

That is truly an astounding write-up. Nothing against most of them I read here, but unlike most of them it didn't center around the details of the surgery, shots, etc. but gave a fantastic insight into the experience of being at the clinic in person. I for one am quite grateful as I am considering Dr. Edrogan seriously for an upcoming 4700 graft HT and at first I was turned off by the thought of doing it in Turkey (vs say Belgium) and was concerned about the quality and demeanor of the staff and clinic After reading this thread (and seeing some remarkable videos about the facility and the surgery) those fears have been dispelled; clearly ASMED is on par with any HT facility in the world.

 

In terms of hair design, how much input did you have? For instance I am quite more interested in density up front vs in the vertex, would like some irregularity ala say Dr. Diep vs the straight razor ones the clinic normally does (still outstanding, I just prefer the imperfection) and would like temples and temple points. Did you get a chance to convey your goals to your satisfaction or did you feel rushed?

 

Thanks again

[BetterLate]

Thank you, ready4Hair, for letting me know that my style of sharing was seen as beneficial. I scanned your profile and a few of your most recent posts before now beginning to write this so that I might be more appropriate in whatever I might say to you right now since you’re feeling a time crunch. I’m going to answer your questions both from the PM and in your posting on this thread with this response.

 

For starters, we’ve got to remove the variable which may force you to make a decision you’ll later second-guess. Even if you really do feel like you need to make a final decision by tomorrow, you’ve got to take your last look at everything without the constraints of time pressure forcing your hand either way. Just pretend you’ve got a year to make your decision, and everything will probably fall into place with a lot more clarity.

 

You won’t regret going with either of your two Last-Doctor-Standing choices. You’re looking at a win-win situation. You will be happy with either one. (For the random Lurkers, ready4Hair has narrowed his choices down to Dr. Feriduni and Dr. Erdogan.)

 

You’ve got to look at that fact as though it is going to make your decision easier, not more difficult. You’ve gotten a lot of good feedback from various Forum users. They don’t necessarily all agree completely why one might be better than the other for certain aspects of the surgery, but you’ve been able to draw enough conclusions so that you feel comfortable with a general picture in your mind about why one might be preferable over the other.

 

I did not go to Dr. Feriduni, but he was a surgeon I had seriously considered. I did go to Dr. Erdogan. I thnk I can answer your questions objectively. However, I’ll be unable to draw any accurate comparisons between the two doctors and their facilities, demeanor, etc., because I never ended up meeting Dr. Feriduni, nor did I visit his establishment.

 

Dr. Erdogan was willing to give me as much input as I desired into the design of the hairline. I had an idea of what I wanted, and right off the bat he added the temple points which I requested. He then proceeded to draw a few options on me to frame the temple points which were better than what I’d had in mind. This was in his office. Later, we went down to the basement where they take their detailed photos to plan out the surgery, where he and a group of staff/technicians hashed out amongst themselves what they thought might look the best from a couple of his final designs. When I saw what they decided, it sure looked fine to me. It had been 30+ years since I’d had my hair that far forward on my head, so it’s not like I had any basis for wanting to argue about what might have appeared to be more natural.

 

He will do whatever you like. If you have an exact idea what you want, I have to believe they will precisely create it for you. They draw it on you the afternoon/evening before and work from that the next day. Day 1 for me (maybe everyone?) was the hairline. If you have a firm idea of how you want to look, I’d stick with it. I was pretty sure I knew what I wanted, but, in my case, I think that they just came up with something that looked better.

 

Never during any part of any of the process did I feel rushed.

 

Like you, I was very interested in having sufficient density in the hairline. I had been given estimates of 2,500 to 3,000 for the hairline and vertex in consultations with two doctors and one other company’s rep, with the idea that I could have more grafts added later with subsequent surgeries.

 

The Asmed approach to my case definitely struck a chord--more grafts up front, since I had enough donor hair to justify it--in order to add increased fullness right from the get-go, then combine that with a Finasteride regimen as a way to maintain as much native hair as possible to potentially keep the look I’ll have achieved while avoiding need for any future surgeries.

 

I think I mentioned in a previous posting that I have a phobia regarding medical procedures. So, 5,000 grafts now and hopefully never have another HT surgery again? I was down for that. There are the schools of thought that so many grafts done in a couple back-back FUE sessions might be too many. Another theory is that the trauma is greatly lessened when using a manual punch, which is what Asmed uses. I’m still a Grade A Ignoramus regarding technicalities in the HT industry, but everything I saw and read and the first patient I met in the hotel after my arrival in Istanbul gave me comfort… and I’ve never looked back.

 

(DISCLAIMER: While I had a fantastic experience at Asmed and am very optimistic, I have to emphasize the point that I’m still just over two months out from my surgeries. My only results to show right now are of the “short-term” and “ugly-duckling” variety. Hair has been slowly coming back in after the initial shedding, with just a small percentage of it grown out far enough yet to make fuzz. I’m not at the point where I’d be a poster boy for proven results.)

 

Having multiple surgeries as one sees how his hair thins out over the years is probably a sensible approach for a young man to take, if for no other reason than cloning or whatever else that comes along will probably minimize the trauma they will suffer in the future surgeries that they anticipate going through.

 

I see that you are just a few years shy of me, so you are more in the proverbial boat that I was in. Your hair might grow back a lot faster than mine, but I’ll tell you that I’m glad I will only go through one round of HTs. I can deal with it all right this time, but, at my age, I only have so much time left in life that I can justify spending in this “recovery mode”, looking like I’d rather not look.

 

You’ve been taking Finasteride and possibly have stabilized your hair loss? You also indicated to me that you may want to go through this whole process one time only.

 

If you know you can get the look you want with Feriduni, the two Doctors are in a dead heat. But if you’re not sure or don’t think you can get the look you want with the number of grafts you’d be doing in a single round of HTs with Feriduni, that probably does tilt things in favor of a trip to Istanbul, doesn’t it?

 

I think they are both great Doctors. Feriduni was one of ~five surgeons in the world I'd narrowed them all down to at the tail end of my decision-making process. He has so many happy patients. If he came through for you, you would be one more.

 

I’m also sure you would be happy going to Dr. Erdogan.

 

And, in the end now, it’s still pretty much a win-win situation for you.

 

But, ready4Hair, it sounded to me like you’d already made your decision and just wanted to bounce ideas off different people at the last minute. Hopefully, you’ve talked to enough Feriduni patients to balance whatever I’ve told you.

 

And I will only tell you this final thing because I really do think you've already made up your mind: The reason I decided not to pursue going to Feriduni (and the others on my final list besides Erdogan) is because I didn’t think I’d get as many grafts as I wanted to get in one single visit with them... because I'd already decided I would never want to go for a second round of HT surgeries.

[ready4Hair]

Wow, I am hard pressed to find the right words to say thank you for that detailed, caring and considerate response. So I'll just say thank you

 

In terms of having 'made up my mind' that might be true in theory but it was not enough to push me over the top to make the switch. To me Dr. Edrogan's results were almost too good to be true, and I made some assumptions about his clinic vs Dr. Feriduni's. To my mind I ran good risk of ending up at some hair mill that was light years behind Dr. Feriduni's in terms of techs, equipment, commitment and standards. it is one reason why I appreciated your first thread so much (and why that went so far to my making the decision to switch); I've read countless 'I showed up, met the doc, they shaved my head, the shots hurt, they extracted, they inserted, I went to the hotel room and couldn't sleep, my face swelled, the Dr. cleaned my head the next day' that they start to become useless to me (no offense to anyone posting, I am just looking for more information to make a decision). To me the way the clinic operates, the way they care for their patient, the interest the Dr. shows in the patients goals/needs, the procedures they use to figure out the hairline in the first place and the ones they use to extract are all hugely important. If those don't gibe with the posted results to me there is a big red flag which had been my concern with Dr. Erdogan. To anyone who has similar concerns about Dr. Erdogan, I highly recommend you read BetterLate's thread but also take a look at this video:

 

 

 

I had the pleasure of watching this video of his facility and an operation start to finish (edited of course ), and then came across your thread. By all accounts, and supporting other threads I've read, his operation is as impressive and dedicated as Dr. Feriduni's as is the time and care he takes with patients before the operation. I don't care how good the surgeon, if he has a perfunctory meeting with the patient and makes the patient's goals almost superfluous to the procedure, I have no interest.

 

I am super glad that he took so much time with you on your hairline and that the techs were also involved and that they apparently then took the time to discuss game plan to try to meet your needs given your donor area. Nothing could be more important to me (well, the ability to implement perhaps which itself is useless if the Dr./Team doesn't care what the patients goals are). The fact that temples were not a new thing for him is also reassuring as I didn't want to press for temples from a Dr. who does not generally do them.

 

Truly the time issue wasn't what I needed to remove to make the decision; it was pretending that ASMED was in Brussels and Dr. Feriduni in Turkey (instead of the reverse) or both were down the block from me. It is easy to get caught up in the romantic notion of being in a quaint city in Brussels in a penthouse suite, wandering the clean streets and having espresso on the cobblestone streets while you heal vs the hustle and bustle of Turkey. One just seems... pristine... and the other does not. (Note: This is in no way a criticism of Istanbul/Turkey as it is on the top of my lists of cities to visit, being acquainted with it's rich history and reports of it's beauty, it just seemed less of a fit for an HT in my mind, other patients have made it clear that even that just isn't so). So removing the 'where' vs the 'when' helped. Heck if I choose Dr. Erdogan I might even go for the month of healing I'd planned in Hassalt after a month in Istanbul (I can work from anywhere with wireless and I'd like to stay away from home until I look decent again, I am considering even doing short sublets via AirBnB in Bruge, Praque, Paris and Amsterdam).

 

In any event, I communicated my concerns to Dr. Feriduni's office to try to get more than 'we'll see when you get here' and let them know I was dedicated to 'one and done' so needed to know if 4k-4.5k was in fact going to happen. I'm not sure how many of my threads or my blog you read but I had a rough rough time from about 39 yo on (lost business, father become ill with long term illness, etc) which basically put my life on hold since then and am finally turning things around and am a few months away from something I worked long and hard on on the side taking off so I can "restart" my life. So not only is this HT very important to me since, as far as I am concerned, I am picking up where I left off at 39, I have no desire to now lose 2 years doing ht/recover/ht/recover. I'd like my ht growth to coincide with everything else in my life taking off, not derailing it. For all intents and purposes I am a man entering my 40s as a successful tech entrepreneur and I want my hair to reflect that.

 

Mainly I need to find a way to get a detailed hair analysis to Dr. Feriduni if I choose to stay with him which could be difficult to do AND keep the date I had open and held.

 

On the other hand, I request ASMED clinic to, under the circumstances, please review my photo-shop mock-ups of my desired hairline and temple reconstruction vs my current hairline to let me know if it was feasible with the 4700 they recommended (I am willing to go to say 5000-5100 to get the add'l 400 needed for temples). I am also in fact interested in seeing if they will do less of a razor straight hairline and do some irregularity/zig-zag like some other clinics as I prefer that look for it's naturalness (I in fact made a little side by side of their post ht vs some other places, and while their work is impeccable and amazing, it is uniformly perfect). In any event not only did Dr. Erdogan review those pictures and agree the mock-ups were do-able and realistic, he also said he'd do a skype to make sure my donor was in fact up to it. Caveat since I don't want them to be inundated with similar requests: he only did so because I'd have to give up my Dr. Feriduni spot (and again I cannot say enough that they made that available to me) to book with Dr. Erdogan so I asked for some extra attention to make sure this decision was the right one. The fact they did so speaks volumes about their customer care, I dare say many clinics would just say show up and we’ll see.

 

I think the fact I am prepared to commit immediately to a high FUE HT helps but also dealing with them with some measure of respect for their time and services no doubt help.

 

I have an appointment tonight at a 'hairmill' which says they do 'Trichoanalysis' using microscopy for prospective patients as a 'scientific' analysis of their condition. Clearly I'll have to sit through a high-pressure 'time share' type pitch afterwards, but if I can use that information and pics to help either Dr. make a final assessment then it is worth it. If that info is not usable, I have fee-based hair analysis with Dr. Bernstein's office in NYC for early March. I think this might be too late to hold Dr. Feriduni but again I am not willing to commit to that appointment without a commitment for at minimum 4k (I'd love to have the ht changed from 3k-4k to 4k-5k) and clearly Dr. Feriduni cannot do that without a detailed and professional analysis.

 

If BOTH clinics say they can do 4k+ with the additional information, I am stumped huh? But as you said it is just two great options. I don't think either decision will be wrong, I am assuming that with Dr. Feriduni I will end up with less density and a softer hairline and with Dr. Edrogan more density and a less natural one (in terms of the exactness of the edges not the line itself). I actually took the time to spreadsheet out the 1/2/3 hair grafts each used for their FUEs, and their approach is night and day; Dr. Feriduni prefers far more 1s and also 2s and sometimes eschews 3s entirely, resulting in about 1.75 hairs per FU, whereas Dr. Erdogan prefers to load up on 3s and 2s and use as far as I can tell, just enough 1s for the hairline resulting in 2.25 and up hair to FU. This can be significant; 4k at 1.75 translates to 7,000 hairs, 4k at 2.25+ translates to 9,000, and 5,000 grafts which I'd end up with at Dr. Edrogan's translates to 11,250 so in the latter case I am looking at 30%-60% more hair transplanted. Dr. Feriduni is on record as saying that he feels 1s and 2s make for the most natural hairlines while I guess Dr. Erdogan's approach is density with 1s to make the edges look soft.

 

Lastly one big deciding factor for me is the difference in extraction processes; Dr. Feriduni has patients lay face down in a massage table which to me (as a person with extreme claustrophobic) seems highly stressful and uncomfortable the thought of my face pressed in that looking at the floor with people injecting and extracting above me does not appeal to me. As highly as people speak of the procedure at his clinic that seems to be a difficult part for everyone. On the other hand as you will see in the video above, Dr. Erdogan does the extraction with the patient in a comfortable semi-reclined position in a raised and padded couch with the patient watching tv on a monitor mounted to the foot of the chair.

 

If all this seems like over-thinking things, well I put this kind of thought into almost everything I do (which has served me well for the project that is about to take off) but even if I didn't this is an expensive and painful invasive surgery that will require months of stress waiting for results and looking pretty horrible which will then affect me for the rest of my life. So I can't imagine going about it any other way.

Edited February 12, 2015 by ready4Hair

[Duck]

BetterLate, you have done an amazing job chronicling your journey with Dr. Erdogan. As a NW V, I had a two-day 4,900 graft session with him last May. I'm rapidly approaching the 1 year mark, and very happy with my results thus far.

 

Ready4Hair reached out to me recently with some questions, and has inspired me to post my progress. I will not be as prolific a writer as you, but hope to give some additional visuals (and a little insight) that might help the men out there struggling with the decision.

 

Again, bravo on this thread! I wish it had been on the forum when I was making my decision almost a year ago!

[BetterLate]

I’m absolutely crunched for time due to seminar revisions/presentations to make tonight through the end of next week--at which time I’ll update/elaborate--but I just wanted to say thank you very much for the kind words. It makes a big difference when any feedback shows that my time and effort spent here may be seen as worthwhile…

 

Thank you!

[NewLook2015]

Yeah, anticipation is building Betterlate! Always informative reading your HT experience!

 

I will look up the self-hypnosis strategies online - anything to minimize pain/discomfort would be helpful to the rest of us hair seekers.

 

BTW, did you request your techs or you went ahead with clinic-assigned Techs? Just read another thread and the heated arguments on doc vs techs.

 

On a different note, how accurate is the graft counting on the parts of the clinics/doctors? This is not directed towards ASMED but any hair transplant clinic when they suggest certain number of grafts for surgeries. Is there a way for patients to confirm/verify?

[BetterLate]

ready4Hair,

 

Thanks for the great post on this thread about all that has been going into your decision-making process. I think the back story is not only very interesting, but it’s really most important and helpful for others to hear as they struggle through it, themselves. Your sharing of personal circumstances adds the human element into your story and reminds us that the big picture is not just all of us trying to get some extra hair, but, in most cases, to jumpstart a positive change in life that we’ve been striving for a long time. I’m really interested to read about what you’ve ultimately decided to do.

 

(I’m going to answer your question from PM below while answering NewLook’s inquiry on docs vs. techs.)

 

Duck,

 

Thank you again! If you’re thread is up and running, could you please put a link on here for us?

 

NewLook2015,

 

Apologize for delay getting back. If I’m not mistaken, I seem to recall you also put on presentations, so I’m sure you know how it goes. Got 12 more major ones coming up, so it’s kind of hectic, and as I lost track of time and everything else the past week, one of my associates told me that it looks like some of my hair has started sprouting.

 

Keep in mind that my recovery will probably be slower than yours, but I took three shots and uploaded them here

 

Hair Restoration Social Network - Hair Loss and Transplant Photos

 

to give you an idea of what I’m guessing is less of a result so far than you should probably expect for yourself at this stage of time. Second surgery was December 8th, these pix were just taken moments ago. I don’t see great progress, but for someone (my associate) who was so negative toward me about my HT to now say that it looks like it might be going to work after all, I’m thinking that’s a good indication the recovery might be starting to build up some momentum.

 

In regards to your questions, awhile back I’d created a Top 10 list for Newbies considering a hair transplant in a text program, then somehow screwed up pasting some of it onto this thread. One of my points was techs vs. doctors, and I’m almost thinking I should recreate that and some of the other missing points since it seems like they’re such hot topics that won’t go away. Let me give you a short preamble before I answer your first question:

 

I, personally, have no problems with qualified “techs” with years of experience performing procedures on me… be it a PA (Physician’s Assistant) in Los Angeles cutting out skin cancers, or nurses in Istanbul extracting and implanting hair grafts.

 

I, personally, would never allow new/unqualified “techs” to learn their trade on me, be it in Los Angeles or Istanbul.

 

“Techs” have to learn their trade and gain experience somewhere and somehow. That is fine. I just choose that it not be on me.

 

I took the techs that Dr. Erdogan assigned to me, since they all had multiple years of experience.

 

[ready4Hair--in answer to your PM question, speaking from my own perspective: if I had it to do all over again, I would not necessarily want Dr. Erdogan to do the extractions/implantations on my head, even if it cost the same amount of money. Obviously, he is a surgeon and absolutely competent since he has specialized in FUE HTs for so many years now. But my tech team has been doing 200+ extractions/year for a long time now, everything went 100% smoothly, and so far I am completely satisfied. **They are definitely a team… and I, personally, would see no benefit in breaking up that team to add Dr. Erdogan into the mix when they’re so used to working together as a cohesive unit and have gotten the intricate multi-hour procedures down to running like perfect clockwork.

 

I know that might be the most unpopular opinion in this entire Forum, but it is my opinion, nonetheless. Dr. Erdogan has his hand in every part of what’s going on in his clinic, and has created about the smoothest and most efficiently running business enterprise that I’ve ever encountered. It works--and it works very well. Comparing Dr. Erdogan’s Asmed Clinic to a “tech mill” is like comparing the Los Angeles Lakers to a bunch of children playing basketball in the local playground.

 

**One thing that I just happened to find out by fluke is that Dr. Erdogan rents some apartments for a lot of the nurses to stay in together during the weekdays. The clinic is in a nice and expensive part of town. Their families live elsewhere in more affordable areas, so with Istanbul having some of the worst traffic in the world right now, the commute would take too long to make on a daily basis. These nurses live together, eat together, go out together… they are not just co-workers--they are great friends. For me, that cements/increases the value of the whole “team” concept.]

 

NewLook2015, another user here, “johntra”, had been concerned about the assignment of techs, as well. I think he actually requested and received a particular tech that he had heard about. He started a thread that I linked to a few posts back. You are pretty thorough and may have already talked to him. I’d say it would be worth your while asking him for his opinion on this exact question, also, since he’s very helpful.

 

The incision process (all incisions are done by Dr. Erdogan) is not painful, but I chose to distract myself during it by counting how many incisions were made. Both days I thought I must have lost count because I thought there were a couple more than the 2,500 I was expecting. After the second surgery, I was given a “Patient Info File” which contained information about the number of grafts that I received. The numbers were 2,503 for the first surgery, 2,502 for the second surgery. I am pretty sure those counts must be accurate.

 

Hope that helps… gotta get back to prepping for tonight’s presentations.

[hairweare]

Agree that there is not much going on but at 10 weeks post op you are still in the very early stages. Your frontal zone does appear somewhat thinner perhaps from shock loss which hopefully will reverse. I think that you misunderstood my earlier comment that I would have advised two smaller sessions separated by 6-8 months as opposed to days. This would have been less traumatic to both your donor and recipient areas and more importantly would have allowed full recovery of your donor zone and observation of the recipient growth pattern where uneven areas could then be addressed with the follow up procedure. I know those of us with hair loss seem to want the fastest result possible but it is good to remember that we didn't become bald overnight and patience is a virtue when in comes to achieving the ultimate hair restoration. That said, you may still very likely achieve significant growth and be quite happy but I also wouldn't be surprised if you may want another procedure later when your present grafts have fully matured.

[BetterLate]

hairweare,

 

You are 100% correct that I misunderstood your original comment.

 

I've highly respected your opinion. It's likely that I might have just read it the way I wanted at the time.

 

If I would have understood you correctly, I may have considered going for 2,500 grafts at the hairline/near behind it and then left it at that.

 

Surgery is my only phobia and I only want one for HT, so the mega-multi-session was tailor-made for my mentality.

 

I've come back to this posting to edit in this statement... that I'm thinking I probably still would have gone for the whole 5,000 grafts. Wanting to avoid a second surgery is such a big thing for me, and the hope to get maximum coverage in one pass seemed like a fair trade-off for any risk.

 

I'll definitely remain optimistic that I'm going to overcome the shock-loss and look better than before.

 

Any which way it goes, I really do appreciate you leveling with me. You exemplify what's been great about this Forum for everybody.

Edited February 22, 2015 by BetterLate
Adding italicized statement

[FUEAsianHairline]

Hi BetterLate,

 

Thanks for the amazing write up. You've done a great service to those of us looking into a HT with Dr. Erdogan. Wondering if you can answer a few money related questions:

 

1) I understand that in addition to the procedure there's the hotel, medical package and minibus cost. Do you pay that full amount once you arrive at the clinic and not to the driver? I have read about scams and with an influx of foreign tourists carrying large sums of cash right off the plane, an unscrupulous person could try to take advantage. Years ago in the US I was with a friend and we were taken by the old phony parking lot attendant scam and paid some pretend attendant. It would obviously be a nightmare to pay the wrong person and alternatively be a major faux pas if refusing to pay the correct person.

 

2) For someone who plans on staying for 4 nights, how much money do you suggest they bring for food and any other daily living costs?

Also, other than the above referenced costs to Asmed and food, what else would you need money for? I personally don't plan on doing tourist things other than maybe going to a local shop/restaurant as the trip is already a huge cost and really I guess one should spend the time recovering indoors.

 

3) You recommend bringing cash and I believe you or someone else wrote to bring Liras also. Can you break down what you would need dollars for and what you would need liras for? Also should you bring euros for anything?

 

4) Should you bring extra cash and if so how much? Can you access cash easily from banks? Are US credit cards usable for most transactions?

 

Sorry for all the questions but I've never been to that part of the world and obviously want to have all my ducks in a row before hand.

 

Thanks!

 

 

TAKING CASH PAYMENT TO THE ASMED CLINIC... or to actually anywhere outside of the USA, from the USA

 

I've been asked a few times to clarify my posting earlier about taking over US$10,000 in "monetary instruments" from the USA to Turkey and filling out the required declaration, so I will answer here in the public forum in case more people still have the same questions.

 

First of all, that only relates to departing from the USA with the US$10,000. If you depart from the USA but are picking up your cash in another location on the way there, it has no relevance. However, there is no reason to plan on picking up your money in a third country if it will cost anything just to accomplish that, because as long as you complete the required form, you can take as much in US$ as you want with you from the USA and it is perfectly legal.

 

The Turkish authorities do not have any requirements regarding importation of any amount of cash, as far as I was able to ascertain... and I did look into it. However, if I am not correct regarding that conclusion, could somebody please add clarification?

 

The form (FinCEN 105) is required to be filled out and turned in before you get onto the airplane. I completed the form, but then could not remember where to hand it in since I was dealing with complications from my cancelled flight. As long as I had the form with me--and with the cash--I assumed that I would have been okay. It should be easy to figure out where to turn it in--it's in the instructions. I'd just been so stressed out about the delay my trip that I plain forgot what to do with the form.

 

Strictly by the books, if you are caught with over US$10,000 in monetary instruments (currency, endorsed checks, etc.) without attempting to turn in FinCEN 105, your cash is subject to confiscation.

 

You are probably going to get back every single penny if they do take the money from you, but there will be a delay (and we're not talking five minutes--you will not be able to take the money with you) as they run an official investigation to determine if those funds are tied to terrorism or drug trafficking.

 

Here is a link to the form:

 

http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin105_cmir.pdf

 

I beg for apology if necessary. I know we're not supposed to link to unapproved doctors, but I'm assuming that linking to a required US Government Form that many users from the USA need to fill out in order to avoid having their cash confiscated as they depart the country is all right?

 

The safety of carrying so much cash was a big concern for me, but moreso in Los Angeles as opposed to in transit. However, I kept it in a money belt concealed under my tucked-in shirt all the way until I was on my way out of the airport after the Asmed driver picked me up.

 

Asmed will accept payment in either Euro or US$ based upon the prevailing rate of exchange at the exact time you make your payment. The charges are calculated in Euro, so if the dollar is becoming stronger relative to the Euro, those of us from the US will realize some savings when we actually pay the bill. Likewise, if the Euro is getting stronger, we'll end up paying slightly more.

 

It makes no sense to convert our US$ to Euro. The rate they will calculate will be the average rate at the exact time of conversion, and you will pay no commission on the exchange. Only if you foresee a substantial collapse in the value of the US$ before your appointment would it begin to make any sense to convert to Euros in advance.

 

I hope this is clear. I had just wanted to mention this potential problem for us Yankees because it seems fairly important, and I didn't see it covered anywhere before. (I could be wrong on that--I may just not have seen it as I scoured the forum.)

 

Personally, it would have devastated me to have had all of my cash confiscated on the way out of the country after having gone through all of the stress and anxiety that I'm guessing all of us have gone through by time we're going to be getting onto an airplane for our trip abroad for what we're hoping will be a life-changing surgery.

 

And if anyone is wondering if this ever really happens to anyone, yes, it does, and that's how I became aware of it. (It happened to an antique dealer I know who always carries tons of cash everywhere... he still does, but now fills out the form every time. It took a couple months for him to get all his money back.)

Edited February 22, 2015 by FUEAsianHairline

[hairweare]

Thanks Betterlate, I try to make my comments here constructive and glad to be of help. Don't despair you have a long way to go and may be quite happy with your progress in another couple of months. Even if you do require another procedure despite your reticence, you got through the first one which nearly all here would say is the toughest one. You would be surprised how much easier it is the second or third time since there is much less fear and anticipation of the unknown.

[BetterLate]

FueAsianHairline,

 

Thank you for the compliment. It really is good to know when someone has found this helpful. Let me address your questions by number, with a few extra details in case they might be beneficial for someone else reading this:

 

1) You don’t pay anything to the driver. Mine even tried to refuse a small tip I gave him after buying me a couple bottles of water from vendors who were standing out in the middle of the expressway during the bumper-bumper part of our drive during rush hour.

 

You shouldn’t have much trouble finding your driver at the airport. Mine was waiting for me with a sign as I left the customs/baggage claim exit. I kept my cash strapped to me with a money belt just to be safe, in case of general pickpocket/scammers I might encounter.

 

You won’t be asked for any money at all until you’ve seen the clinic and met with Dr. Erdogan to go over an in-depth interview/consultation, and then confirm that you do want to go forward. I imagine the odds of you changing your mind after seeing the Asmed Clinic in person and meeting the staff and Dr. Erdogan have got to be as close to zero as you can get.

 

2) The Radisson Breakfast Buffet really is fantastic, and something that you won’t want to miss any morning. And It’s included in the price of the hotel. Asmed provides your lunch and any snack/drinks whenever you want something before, during and after your procedures at the clinic.

 

During the day(s) of surgery, you will have no time to do anything. The hotel (very close to the clinic) is a little up on a hill in an area that is becoming a very upscale part of Istanbul. You won’t find much “authentic” or “traditional” Turkey around this area... and no tourist-type things at all that I saw. The view from the hotel rooms is great. If you’ve got two days of surgery, I think you’ll be happy hanging at the hotel or just walking around the adjacent neighborhood for a diversion. Keep in mind that you will want to spray your transplanted grafts and put an icepack across your face every hour or two if you follow the strict instructions for quick recovery, so that somewhat limits your options.

 

I only had dinner one night at the hotel. (I stayed all but the first and last night at the clinic.) I think it cost me about $20 total. There were less and more expensive things I could have gotten. If I would have stayed at the hotel the whole time, I probably would have had some small snack meals there for $10 - $15 at night, and then indulged every AM at the Buffet… or maybe found something outside for dinner if I’d have done the neighborhood walk.

 

Outside of a dinner at the Radisson, a pizza one night from a little pizza parlor next to Asmed, and the cost of a pill splitter at the local pharmacy around the corner from the clinic, I only spent money on the hotel bill and the single bulk payment to Asmed. Your idea of spending the time recovering indoors is spot on.

 

When I was first in Istanbul in 1978, I found it to be my favorite and most interesting place in the world. I’m sure it’s changed a lot, but I didn’t check it out this time. You really should see some of the marvels there. But, not on this trip…

 

Your payment to Asmed covers everything at the clinic and all transportation. You will pay the Radisson separately for the room/buffet, at the preferential Asmed rate. Besides your dinners, I can’t imagine what other expenses you might have or even be in a position to incur. Budget an extra $40/day of cash, and you might find yourself taking a whole lot of that home with you, but will feel more comfortable having it available.

 

3) You will get the big discount if you take cash to Asmed. Take all dollars. Asmed will give you the best rate you’re going to get (the exact rate on currency exchange markets at the exact moment in time you change your money with them, without any commissions) to convert your money into Euros to pay them, or Turkish Lira if you want some local currency.

 

The only thing I needed Turkish Lira for was the pizza and the pill splitter. My credit card (Mastercard) would not work at the pizza parlor when they tried to run it through their machine. You won’t want to buy a pizza next door since you’re staying at the Radisson, but you might change a few dollars into Lira for the pharmacy if you want t buy the pill splitter.

 

Many years ago, I had to tell my credit card company that I wanted it to be valid for overseas use. I don't know if this is necessary to do any more? I’m guessing small-time vendors in Developing Countries might be off the usual financial grid and that's why my card didn't work at the pizza parlor.

 

The Radisson took my Mastercard for the room bill and my dinner there without a hitch. I’m assuming places around the Radisson will also take credit cards or even cash US$? If not, you could change a few dollars into Lira at the Radisson front desk.

 

Basically, for a trip to Asmed that does not include vacation-type activities thrown into the mix, you’re fine with $US all the way, except for possibly needing a very few Lira as mentioned... and those you could get by changing a few dollars at Asmed or the Radisson.

 

4) Think we covered most of this, but, in summary:

 

Take cash for your procedure and a little extra to feel comfortable. I'm guessing that you won’t have much time or desire to spend it while in recovery mode and may end up just taking it back home, but you’ll feel more comfortable having it.

 

Radisson takes credit cards for room and dinners.

 

If you need to notify your credit card company that you will be using it overseas, best to do it in advance.

 

No need to go to a bank there, as Asmed will give you a better rate on your US$ than any bank.

 

Hope this helps.

[FUEAsianHairline]

BetterLate,

 

Thanks again for your authoritative guide to an ASMED hair transplant! You're as good as a patient rep... maybe you should be one:)

 

If it's ok, I have a few more questions:

 

1) Would you recommend staying at the clinic over the hotel and is that an option for others? Sounds like that could be ideal for recovery.

 

2) I've been told by an ASMED rep that I can get away with about 3,000 grafts so it would be a one day procedure. Do you go in the day after to get your scalp looked at? If so, do you know if they offer letting patients come in a 2nd or even 3rd day post op to be looked at? I'm thinking I won't be back at least for 12 months if at all, so maybe it's worth staying a few days longer to help ensure graft survival. I also read that it's not good to travel the day after the surgery due to swelling, etc.

 

3) From everything I am reading on ASMED on the forums and from their incredible before and after results pictures, it almost seems too good to be true, especially at their prices. I'm not a skeptic, but someone who is very careful with their money especially with a cosmetic procedure done in a foreign country.

That said, were you ever at all unsure about going to ASMED especially since the techs do most of the work and are producing results that are nothing short of magical at very reasonable prices?

 

4) Did anyone from the clinic discuss a guarantee of any kind with you? Denny did a questionnaire with Dr. Erdogan where he wrote:

 

6. Is there any guarantee policy in your clinic stating that if a certain % of the transplanted grafts do not grow, your clinic will provide a touch up with no cost or refund the difference, whatever the patient wants? Yes. I guarantee that at least 90% of the grafts will grow. But we all know any physician can guarantee 100% of good results. For those cases, I will offer a free touch-up to guarantee the 90% of the growth. The patient can come only for the touch-up for those grafts or for a second pass. If this is the case, the number of the grafts that did not grow from the first procedure will be placed at no cost for the patient.

 

Thanks!

[BetterLate]

FueAsianHairline,

 

Glad to help. I’m in the middle of creating PowerPoint slides for seminars tomorrow and am taking a short break so I took a quick look at email and saw you posted another question.

 

This may be the last time for a few days I'll be able to log on, but I’ll jam out what I can before I gotta get back to work.

 

 

1) First night, I’d consider staying at Radisson. It’s a little cheaper, you don’t need the hospital bed at the clinic until after surgery, and you’ve got the great breakfast buffet. If you have two pre-surgery nights, stay there both and move to clinic to stay there after surgery.

 

2) Yes, you should go in day after for shampooing and check-up and final instructions. I don’t think staying there additional days will necessarily ensure graft survival. Just be careful--bumping your new grafts would be the biggest screw up of all.

 

The other patients besides me all seemed to leave the day after their surgery, after their check-ups. My flight time out of Istanbul necessitated my staying an additional night. I think anyone would be much more comfortable recovering at home than overseas. An exception would be if you wanted to stay an extra night in the hospital bed at the clinic... but I still think you’d be much better off making yourself comfortable at home.

 

It does not seem to make a lot of sense to stay additional nights at the Radisson. They do not have hospital beds. It’s a great hotel, but you’ll spend a lot of time trying to make yourself comfortable and worrying about not screwing up your transplanted grafts and probably wishing you were at home.

 

I think if you use the ice pack religiously after surgery, that will help keep any swelling down to an acceptable degree.

 

3) I was unsure about going to any doctor anywhere in the world for a few years after I was pretty sure I was going to get a HT. When you are looking at recent results from Asmed, odds are pretty much 100% that you are looking at their tech work. From the minute I started dealing with Sevinc via e-mail, the professionalism of Asmed started becoming apparent. A part of me was wondering if I’d be disappointed when I got there… if I was just building up in my mind how great my experience with them might be.

 

But it only got better after I arrived there.

 

4) No one brought it up and I did not ask. By the time I finished talking with Dr. Erdogan and he said he felt comfortable telling me that we could likely achieve what he understood my expectations to be, that was enough at that point for me to want to proceed. I was sure without asking that he probably had some way to make concessions in case of any great failure. You #6 quote in red seems to justify that idea.

 

You’re welcome!

[FUEAsianHairline]

Thanks again BetterLate! Your indepth answers definitely helped me a lot and I wouldn't be surprised if they helped a lot of other folks as well. I may follow up later on (I know you're busy now), All the Best!

[johntra]

BetterLate,

Always nice to read your posts, although I've been through all this.

Wish you happy growth, sunny days are waiting of you.

BR

[wibbles180]

Thanks to all for such an informative thread ... I too am at decision time erdogan, feriduni, lorenzo . And some of this information has helped me greatly

[NewLook2015]

Agree with fellow members here, sometimes even re-reading your posts is helpful!

 

BigP, another Dr E patient, and I have been taking about the extent of pain after anesthetics wear off, (first 2 weeks post-op?!). What was your experience? Some pain is understood as this is surgical procedure after all. Upon my return, I have to wrap up some work, from home though, and would like to get an idea if pain the first 15 days after surgery is manageable to be moderately productive?!

 

I'm flying back 5th day post-op -- staying first two days at Radisson and at ASMED during the two day surgery. I was thinking of moving to a more economic option (e.g. Flora) afterwards but seems staying at ASMED longer is a better option, particularly if there was pain/discomfort?! How effective were pain killer pills in the first week?

 

Happy growth!

[ready4Hair]

Agree with fellow members here, sometimes even re-reading your posts is helpful!

 

BigP, another Dr E patient, and I have been taking about the extent of pain after anesthetics wear off, (first 2 weeks post-op?!). What was your experience? Some pain is understood as this is surgical procedure after all. Upon my return, I have to wrap up some work, from home though, and would like to get an idea if pain the first 15 days after surgery is manageable to be moderately productive?!

 

I'm flying back 5th day post-op -- staying first two days at Radisson and at ASMED during the two day surgery. I was thinking of moving to a more economic option (e.g. Flora) afterwards but seems staying at ASMED longer is a better option, particularly if there was pain/discomfort?! How effective were pain killer pills in the first week?

 

Happy growth!

 

I sort of have same (albeit extended) plan; ASMED Clinic say 3 days post-oip, then planning on Raddison or FIaona for three weeks. Fiona less and bigger but even though a kitchen sounds great vs eating out all the time, I wonder how easy shopping is, how the local produce is, etc. Being at Raddison means I can sequester myself and order in and do bar with a cap if I want, Fiona means I need to go out in public and unknown area/culture and shop.

 

I am asking about and researching post surgery LLLT btw which I have read is highly beneficial. LLLT is somtimes knocked as 'quackery' or not growing hair but one thing it is proven to do is rapid wound healing. Not sure if that relates to pain but I'd think wound healing = less pain.

[FUEAsianHairline]

I've been told that the clinic washes your head each day post-op so that's a nice perk. Plus the adjustable hospital bed you won't find in any hotel.

 

Just make sure you don't drink alcohol 3-7 days post op, which is a no-no from what I've read.

[ready4Hair]

I

 

Just make sure you don't drink alcohol 3-7 days post op, which is a no-no from what I've read.

 

Crap! I'm cancelling the HT

 

I just meant really that the Radisson will have a lounge are to get me out of the room vs the efficiency unit hotel. I wieghed pros and cons of Raddison vs Flora; Raddisson is more $ especially over 3 weeks AND has no kitchen so requires cost (and health issues) of eating out each meal and is smaller which will be noticable after three weeks. On the other hand Flora with the ful apartment suite and kitchen sounds nice at first but you lose most of the benefits of the hotel (including room service) and home cooking each day might not be so pleasant and easy in an unknown city blocks away from the nearest grocery store with unknown culture/food/etc. If this were San Francisco I'd jump at Flora but think I am just going to absorb the cost of Radisson. Also aftter 3-7 days I can go to the bar

[ready4Hair]

Hi BetterLate, I had an immigration question: when they say 'purpose of visit' do you have to say 'surgery/medical' (legally) or can you just more easily say 'visiting/pleasure'?

 

I am planning on flying Business Class on Turkish Airways (I am claustrophobic so for a 10 hour flight need more space) which apparently has expedited immigration but don't want to hold up the process saying I am coming in for surgery, what type, etc/

[FUEAsianHairline]

Just found this insightful video profiling the Asmed Clinic which looks very high end: