Who would be the best FUE surgeon for my hairline (pictures)

[BUSA]

Erdogan is ur best choice imo. its funny how ppl criticize those who want a lower hair line yet I have two uncles and a grandfather that have the same hairline as they did when they were 30 so the "Conservative" hairline is really only reserved for those who will have no hair to put there is 20-30 years.

 

which is really kind of a joke cause in 20-30 years HM will be available or some sort of stem cell injections or whatever so if u want a lower hairline at a young age to make u look more youthful then go for it. u have plenty of hair to pull that off.

[1978matt]

Erdogan is ur best choice imo. its funny how ppl criticize those who want a lower hair line yet I have two uncles and a grandfather that have the same hairline as they did when they were 30 so the "Conservative" hairline is really only reserved for those who will have no hair to put there is 20-30 years.

 

which is really kind of a joke cause in 20-30 years HM will be available or some sort of stem cell injections or whatever so if u want a lower hairline at a young age to make u look more youthful then go for it. u have plenty of hair to pull that off.

 

Can you tell me next week's lotto numbers as it seems you can predict the future?

[BUSA]

Can you tell me next week's lotto numbers as it seems you can predict the future?

he has about 10,000 donor hairs left. u don't need to predict the future to know he has plenty of donor hair to last him for at least two decades.

 

how bout this.... lets look back 15 years ago where ppl laughed at Dr. woodz when he was perfecting FUE and ppl stated it will never work and if you need a large number of grafts ur reduced to being scalped and left with possibly a huge ugly scar on ur head. thats obviously false.

 

what percentage of patients these days opt for FUT over FUE? I don't need crystal ball to predict what will be available in 20 years its common sense! in fact, over the last 5 years alone FUE has made leaps and bounds.

 

in fact, over the last 10 years modern medicine and plastic surgery has made more advances then it has in the past 100 years.

[1978matt]

he has about 10,000 donor hairs left. u don't need to predict the future to know he has plenty of donor hair to last him for at least two decades.

 

how bout this.... lets look back 15 years ago where ppl laughed at Dr. woodz when he was perfecting FUE and ppl stated it will never work and if you need a large number of grafts ur reduced to being scalped and left with possibly a huge ugly scar on ur head. thats obviously false.

 

what percentage of patients these days opt for FUT over FUE? I don't need crystal ball to predict what will be available in 20 years its common sense! in fact, over the last 5 years alone FUE has made leaps and bounds.

 

in fact, over the last 10 years modern medicine and plastic surgery has made more advances then it has in the past 100 years.

 

Amazing that you are able to evaluate his donor supply when there is no photo...

 

If he does go for the NW1 hairline that is 3000+ grafts or 6000 hairs (approximate) used up in one sitting. If, as you say, he has 10000 that would leave 4000 'hairs' to cover 2/3rds of the top of his head. Nowhere near enough if he reaches a NW5 or 6. You need at least 2000 hairs per Norwood number to have any hope of getting a good density.

 

It would be completely barmy to stake everything on hair multiplication. It would be like smoking 40 a day in the hope someone finds a cure for cancer.

 

And for the record, to the year end 2012 it was 67.5% FUT/32.5% FUE worldwide.

[bismarck]

in 20-30 years HM will be available or some sort of stem cell injections or whatever so if u want a lower hairline at a young age to make u look more youthful then go for it.

 

he has about 10,000 donor hairs left. u don't need to predict the future to know he has plenty of donor hair to last him for at least two decades.

 

in fact, over the last 10 years modern medicine and plastic surgery has made more advances then it has in the past 100 years.

 

Thanks, I appreciate your optimism about the future of hair loss research, and my hair loss in particular. 10,000 hairs would be amazing. However, as Mark Cuban once said, it's a bad idea to start a business on a loan. And I have to accept on some level that medical therapy means that to some extent, many of the hairs I have may actually be 'on loan'. If I stop responding to what I'm already on, I am almost out of options as far as medical maneuvering (I suppose RU would be the last stop, spironolactone is just too extreme for me).

 

As a somewhat unrelated aside, regarding your predictions, I am not as confident as you are about stem cell research/hair multiplication.

 

Having researched hair loss myself for the last 12 years, I have just not seen the developments we were once so optimistic about. Dutasteride was really the last major medical breakthrough, and FUE the last technical breakthrough.

 

With the sluggish economy not showing signs of recovery any time soon, if ever, research funding (ie. the NIH) is at an all time low. Without America to lead the way, the last 7 years for medical and surgical innovation have not been as impressive as the 7 years before that, at least by scale, and likely will continue to stall as oil prices climb and potable water declines. China is spinning its wheels as well, although certainly much of the great research out there is coming from the so called Asian lions.

 

Garza, Cotsarellis, et al. have been knocking at the door of stem cells and dermal papillae for some time, but have really not shown anything impressive as far as clinical application. The somewhat infamous Dr. Nigam now appears to be on the lam.

 

The desire to clone follicles is similar to the desire to effectively clone in general, and has somewhat of an analogy to finding the cure for the common cold or the HIV vaccine. Just when we think we're about to figure it out, the damn thing slips through our fingers. Theoretically simple, practically impossible. I worry that will remain a medical mirage for quite some time.

 

Back to your suggestion, I have a huge amount of respect for Erdogan, but his graft counts are a bit steep for me. I also worry about what transplanting that fast does to yield. I've seen the videos, but 4500 in a single day is really something. I'm sure medical assistant labor is cheaper and more plentiful in Turkey, but nonetheless.

 

Alright, back to combing through the patient results threads. Again, thanks to everyone for your thoughts and insights.

Edited September 5, 2014 by bismarck

[BUSA]

And for the record, to the year end 2012 it was 67.5% FUT/32.5% FUE worldwide.

yea with THOUSANDS of patients looking for an FUE surgeon to repair their FUT scar that has disfigured them....:rolleyes:

 

lets look at the forum here where REAL results are posted not some statistic u pulled off the internet and the majority of them are looking for an FUE surgeon NOT an FUT.

 

read the threads. they speak for themselves. the majority of the results posted these days are FUE. or even look at how many ppl view FUE threads over FUT. its not even close which demonstrates that in the near future FUT will be gone like the dinosaurs.

 

sure, there are a few surgeons in the world that perform decent FUT (Bisanga, H&W etc) but the X factor still exists with healing when it comes to taking a huge chunk of scalp from ones head and how it will heal. no surgeon no matter how skilled he is is going to be able to predict how ones head will heal.

 

there is no roll of the dice.... with FUE requiring a patient to seek out another surgeon to repair them.

 

how many threads have u read where an FUE patient seeks out an FUT doctor to repair them? how many?

 

and looking at the op's head it obvious he has TONS of donor grafts on his head and probably another 2000 on his beard if need be. if u can't figure that out on ur own then ur obviously not looking to figure it out.

[1978matt]

yea with THOUSANDS of patients looking for an FUE surgeon to repair their FUT scar that has disfigured them....:rolleyes:

 

lets look at the forum here where REAL results are posted not some statistic u pulled off the internet and the majority of them are looking for an FUE surgeon NOT an FUT.

 

read the threads. they speak for themselves. the majority of the results posted these days are FUE. or even look at how many ppl view FUE threads over FUT. its not even close which demonstrates that in the near future FUT will be gone like the dinosaurs.

 

sure, there are a few surgeons in the world that perform decent FUT (Bisanga, H&W etc) but the X factor still exists with healing when it comes to taking a huge chunk of scalp from ones head and how it will heal. no surgeon no matter how skilled he is is going to be able to predict how ones head will heal.

 

there is no roll of the dice.... with FUE requiring a patient to seek out another surgeon to repair them.

 

how many threads have u read where an FUE patient seeks out an FUT doctor to repair them? how many?

 

and looking at the op's head it obvious he has TONS of donor grafts on his head and probably another 2000 on his beard if need be. if u can't figure that out on ur own then ur obviously not looking to figure it out.

 

I'm not sure why you are banging on about FUE versus FUT. My issue had nothing to do with technique. What I did disagree with was the notion that it would be a great idea to get a very low hairline.

 

The figures I quote are from the ISHRS member survey and not some arbitrary made up number.

 

I hope you are right and multiplication allows FUT to die out in the future. Unfortunately some of the drawbacks of FUE have yet to materialise fully, in much the same way the issue with plug grafting became a problem when 10-15 years later people lost more hair and had no donor left.

 

I heard on the Bald Truth that a top FUE surgeon decided to get a procedure done on himself. What did he choose? ....FUT.

[bismarck]

I heard on the Bald Truth that a top FUE surgeon decided to get a procedure done on himself. What did he choose? ....FUT.

 

I remember Spencer saying that as well. It would have been interesting to hear him go into reasons why he thought the surgeon did that. Or to have the surgeon on to explain his thought process.

[Mickey85]

I remember Spencer saying that as well. It would have been interesting to hear him go into reasons why he thought the surgeon did that. Or to have the surgeon on to explain his thought process.

 

Who was it? One top surgeon told me he has had over 5,000 FUE grafts... I had absolutely NO idea until he told me. Was stunned.

[bismarck]

Who was it? One top surgeon told me he has had over 5,000 FUE grafts... I had absolutely NO idea until he told me. Was stunned.

 

On the episode I heard, Spence never actually gave the surgeon's name, he just referred to him as "a well established FUE surgeon that I know". I believe Spex was guesting on the episode with him, so perhaps he would know.

 

Regarding my situation I have attached a theoretical hairline (literally drawn on my forehead, not as handy with photoshop). Obviously I am no Mwamba or Feriduni, just a guess.

 

I have also attached composite of photos myself over the last 12 years to show what I'm hoping to get back to (when I first began medical therapy). Surprisingly a bit emotional putting this together -- Bowie's "Changes" and Alphaville's "Forever Young" kept playing into my head. Man I've made a few mistakes in my life, just trying to make one fewer. :cool:

 

Basically, the next step in the process for me is to compare my younger pictures and the drawn in contours to the cases posted by patients here and on other similar forums. I also value the cases the surgeons post, but obviously I value self reports more. I have gotten back to 2011 on cases here, and will next work through BT and the foreign boards.

 

As far as numbers, I've received assessments back from everyone but Lorenzo and Reddy. The flight costs to Belgium or Turkey from the United States are fairly close, surprisingly.

 

Feriduni - 1400-1800 grafts

Mwamba - 2000-2600 grafts PRP optional at a cost

Bisanga - 1500 grafts

Maras - 2000 grafts - manual, doesn't believe in PRP

Erdogan - 3000 grafts - manual with PRP

Doganay - 2000 grafts - manual with PRP

 

Well then, there we are. Like the song asks, am I gonna drop the bomb or not?

Edited October 14, 2014 by David - TakingThePlunge

[Mickey85]

On the episode I heard, Spence never actually gave the surgeon's name, he just referred to him as "a well established FUE surgeon that I know". I believe Spex was guesting on the episode with him, so perhaps he would know.

 

 

 

That could mean anything then. Umar has had strip surgery but it supposedly failed. Feller is a semi-well known FUE surgeon who has had strip. I really don't believe Lorenzo, Feriduni, Bisanga, Mwamba or Erdogan etc have had strip...

[KO]

Who was it? One top surgeon told me he has had over 5,000 FUE grafts... I had absolutely NO idea until he told me. Was stunned.

 

who? Feriduni?

[1978matt]

who? Feriduni?

 

Nah, that Spanish fella

[KO]

No way dude! I thought I detected a mild bit of recession there.....I'm guessing it was Dra Ximena Vila who did the honors? Looks great though.

[Mickey85]

Just realized I didn't draw any temples.

 

While Lorenzo may be king of crowns, Mwamba and Feriduni are high priests of the temples.

 

That proposed hairline will cost you close to 3,000 grafts if not dead on 3,000... You are lowering the hairline well over 1.5cm from its current position as well as advancing the temple points. They say every millimeter the hairline is lowered needs 100 grafts and it looks like the hypothetical hairline you designed is at least 15mm lower than the existing one? You would need a few hundred for each of those temple points too. Not to mention the possible need to implant into the existing hair so that it blends... Beware.

[bismarck]

Thanks Mickey. My general strategy has been to draw in a few different hairlines over the past few days (rounded, more temple peaks, etc), and then I've been going through cases published here and elsewhere to see where I would fit into the spectrum.

Edited October 14, 2014 by David - TakingThePlunge

[Masato]

Very interesting thread. I'm in a similar dilemma in terms of hairline design. From what I've seen on the forums, I would say Konior, Feriduni, Rahal and Erdogan are amongst my favourites in terms of a natural yet good looking hairline. As I am more leaning towards FUE, I think this is where there's a bit of a divide. Konior doesn't have many documented FUE cases (seems to be more of a strip guy). Feriduni had that one case (MBPsucks) that seemed to require a second session and I don't know what the end result was. I remember 2 Rahal FUE cases (Sean and Sugar) that seemed a bit questionable at some point but I think they have been sorted sine, unless I missed something. Which leaves us/me with Erdogan. I personally also like Bisanga's FUE work. His hairline designs might be less intricate, but he always seems to pull off great yield. Keser from Turkey was on my radar too at some point, but haven't heard much about him lately.

[eric105]

 

Feriduni - 1400-1800 grafts

Mwamba - 2000-2600 grafts PRP optional at a cost

Bisanga - 1500 grafts

Maras - 2000 grafts - manual, doesn't believe in PRP

Erdogan - 3000 grafts - manual with PRP

Doganay - 2000 grafts - manual with PRP

 

Well then, there we are. Like the song asks, am I gonna drop the bomb or not?

 

Can you share the prices each of these surgeons quoted you per graft?

Thanks

[bismarck]

Very interesting thread. I'm in a similar dilemma in terms of hairline design. From what I've seen on the forums, I would say Konior, Feriduni, Rahal and Erdogan are amongst my favourites in terms of a natural yet good looking hairline. As I am more leaning towards FUE, I think this is where there's a bit of a divide. Konior doesn't have many documented FUE cases (seems to be more of a strip guy). Feriduni had that one case (MBPsucks) that seemed to require a second session and I don't know what the end result was. I remember 2 Rahal FUE cases (Sean and Sugar) that seemed a bit questionable at some point but I think they have been sorted sine, unless I missed something. Which leaves us/me with Erdogan. I personally also like Bisanga's FUE work. His hairline designs might be less intricate, but he always seems to pull off great yield. Keser from Turkey was on my radar too at some point, but haven't heard much about him lately.

 

Konior is excellent at hairlines, though agreed he seems to be more of an FUT guy. I have been spending a bit of time comparing FUT and FUE results of different surgeons lately, as I have started to wonder about different yield rates (ie. Spencer's discussion about the prominent FUE surgeon that decided on FUT for himself when he needed surgery). Ultimately, we have a finite reserve and FUT has been around longer.

 

In terms of track record, it seems everybody has the rare case that makes you scratch your head, but in general they are very strong. I have made a data file on my computer with all of their online published cases, separating out those submitted by the clinics from those submitted by patients, and in general the quality is comparable (although patient submissions are more often lost to follow up and/or have poor quality photos that do not assess the surgery well). I would suggest looking at the foreign forums as well, using the auto-translate feature with Google Chrome.

 

Some updates:

 

Feriduni - 1400-1800 grafts

Mwamba - 1200-1500 grafts PRP optional at a cost

Bisanga - 1500 grafts

Maras - 2000 grafts - manual, doesn't believe in PRP

Erdogan - 3000 grafts - manual with PRP

Doganay - 2000 grafts - manual with PRP

Lorenzo - declined me as a surgical candidate. Advised medical management.

 

@eric105 - As far as cost, just check their websites or call for quotes, the pricing is complicated. I am really trying to focus on money second, and skill/track record first.

 

In terms of conservative to aggressive as far as hairlines, based on their work published online, it's roughly: Lorenzo < Bisanga < Feriduni = Mwamba < Doganay < Erdogan.

 

Stephen (Bisanga's rep) was really honest in telling me that Bisanga would be very conservative in his approach. Lorenzo was so conservative that he declined me as a patient, which is very reasonable if you look at his past cases. He will be my first choice later in life when my vertex thins enough for intervention, as he is a true Rembrandt when it comes to the swirl. His yield (ie. percentage of successfully transplanted grafts) may even be the highest I've seen, possibly rivaling FUT, although I need to do more research to say this with confidence. Doganay was at the other end of the spectrum, and suggested a lower hairline, and I've seen his work to know that he could very comfortably accomplish what he suggested.

 

My opinion is that no one approach is obviously 'better' or 'worse'. Rather, it's good to think about it like an investment -- short term gains or long term reserves. Everyone has a different comfort level. One of the hardest things about this process is looking at your own situation, and being honest about your relative risk and gain.

 

In terms of booking, Turkish docs were backed up 2-3 months, Belgian/Spanish docs 3-4 months (except Feriduni, who was booked till the second half of 2015).

 

Overall, it is an incredibly difficult decision. When it comes to the elite in any field, differences are subtle. My strategy is to look at their past cases, yields, and see which hairlines and philosophies match up to my own. There is a perfect surgeon for everyone.

Edited September 10, 2014 by bismarck

[BUSA]

Lorenzo was so conservative that he declined me as a patient, which is very reasonable if you look at his past cases. He will be my first choice later in life when my vertex thins enough for intervention, as he is a true Rembrandt when it comes to the swirl. His yield (ie. percentage of successfully transplanted grafts) may even be the highest I've seen, possibly rivaling FUT, although I need to do more research to say this with confidence. Doganay was at the other end of the spectrum, and suggested a lower hairline, and I've seen his work to know that he could very comfortably accomplish what he suggested.

 

thats another reason why I don't care for Lorenzo. he is WAY too conservative. Doganay just gets it where Lorenzo doesn't.

 

Im not interested in getting a HT and going from from a NW5 to a NW3 which is what ill get with Lorenzo and his conservative approach to a HT.

 

Dogonay makes his patients look youthful again. Lorenzo makes his patients look like their middle aged. if I wanted to look middle aged I wud just shave my head. the whole point of a HT is make urself look much younger and youthful not to look "Mature".

 

I think Lorenzo is great for filling in but not for a complete restoration. Doganay or Demsroy is a far better choice for that and not to mention the pricing of Lorenzo is almost laughable when you have two other TOP rated surgeons doing better work for less money.

[chrisdav]

People on other forums say dismissive things like HRN is "just an advertising site" etc. but I think comments like this miss the whole point.

 

Bismarck,

 

I have read all the hair forums and I will confidently say that this is one of the best forums around by a long stretch.

[KO]

I cannot imagine why in the world Erdogan recommended 3000 grafts.

[PupDaddy]

bismarck,

 

Thank you for a fantastically interesting thread. I commend you for taking us through your ht decision-making. You are asking all the right questions of yourself for your long term satisfaction (tough to do!) without getting caught up in hype or dogma. I look forward to learning your decision and following your results. I think this thread will be a valuable resource for others in your shoes.

[ontop]

PupDaddy Yep i second that also great post for myself and OP

 

bismarck

Me & you are more or less with the same hairline & vertex 2/3v on the scale the difference is that I'm 47 next Birthday so my thought process is that although I'm 17 yrs older than you & kinda stabilized or should i say slowed down the loss of hair i have left without any Medication thus far another heavy choice for me down the line prior before i go to the knife FUT or needle/ Punch FUE whatever i decide.

 

So you at the much 17 yrs Younger age than myself and probably more hair to loose because there is one thing we can all agree on is no-matter what we do to slow this down we still loose hair as we get older and yep maybe it slows down to a snails pace but never the less we still keep loosing hair.

 

This is my own HO on your age & the hair loss pics you have shown and this is what i would do if i was in you shoes today, again this is my own personal view is & whenever you hunt down your Dr you feel 110% comfortable with & that is to not go with a lower hairline but go with the conservative one this will give several different advantages later on if you don't feel comfortable with as then you would have another day to fight a few more Battles down the road & say in 5/10 yrs time your not happy then again you have several options and who knows maybe the OP can read into the Future and there will be a major break through with Stem cells but myself wouldn't hold my breath though TBH.

 

I like the second Photo shot the Member made up for you with the higher hairline and thicker look that looks cool IMHO.

 

You are doing the right thing now by asking questions not just for yourself but for me and others so take your time, keep looking at them photo shop pics and be really honest with yourself and say can i live with that?

I see & read so many people making Emotional snap decisions which lets face it when something bother us so much when it comes to loss of hair esp us men want it to be fixed asap don't we?

 

The OP posters great comments i must say , i just love this Forum.

 

A little FOOD FOR THOUGHT for you :rolleyes:

Don't put all your eggs in one Basket

 

Have a Good Day:cool:

Edited September 16, 2014 by ontop
typo