My Temporary SMP Experience

[wylie]

Well, decided to do a little write up on my experience with temporary SMP. What I liked going into this was that all sessions would be done where there is existing hair, and no matter the end result, if I didn't like it it would (hopefully) disappear.

 

So I started with the scar repair, which is done in three sessions. This required a 1000 mile round trip journey three times to Minneapolis to the Shapiro Medical Group to see Nicole. We did the first session on the scarring, waited a month, did the second, and shortly thereafter, around a month later did the last session. These took place in 2014, around Spring time.

 

I would give this strip scar repair SMP a grade of: B-

 

The result was definitely better than average, I include the minus because there are two pencil thin scars fairly high up, where the hair is thinner, that still are visible even after repeated attempts to camouflage them. No shaving of my hair was necessary, my scars are all nice and flat, and the sessions generally took all day. The cost for three sessions was $800.00. I can shave my hair in back to a #1 guard, when previously I was shaving to a #1.5 guard. I feel more confident about the scarring in back after these sessions and would recommend it based on cost and efficacy. The color blending is very good, yet there is still some evidence of scarring visible. Personally, there is no substitute for adding hair to your scars. SMP is less effective but a perfect compliment for the FUE.

 

Now, on to the scalp. This turned out terrible. I have had multiple procedures on my head, most of them the dreaded "mini-grafts" of the 90's, which are just smaller plugs than found in the 80's. I've had Dr. Umar remove some of the more larger and egregious grafts, which has left me with a scalp that may resemble the appearance of a golf ball in places. Between these and all the beard hair added to hide them, my scalp is pitted and very uneven, making SMP a real challenge. So I want to make clear that my case is NOT going to be the same as someone who has never had a HT and is seeking temporary SMP, and it is also NOT going to be the same as someone how has undergone a state of the art FUE or FUT procedure as is currently used today.

 

My grade for the scalp result: F

 

This was a failure in my estimation, one month after the last procedure. The unevenness of my scalp led to what is being called "fading", where areas of my scalp are darker than others and quite noticeable if the scalp hair is parted away to reveal the effects of the ink. Another thing is the color, I notice a definite blush tint to everything on my scalp. This is likely the result of the ink fading and becoming darker in areas, giving it a more bluish tint. Not only do I not like the color but I don't like how it has "faded" and left islands of darker blue amongst the more natural looking and less bluish tint on other parts of my scalp. However, thanks to my scalp hair, none of this is really noticeable, so I'm not stressing. And my bald crown was untouched by the ink. It's possible none of these problems would have occurred on my crown as it remains unmolested by the HT industry, and will remain that way. Only doing half of the scalp is not how they normally do these sessions, but it's how I wanted mine done, as a bald crown being inked was not something I felt would look natural. The scalp procedure is all three sessions, and is done over two consecutive days, with a third day of follow up in a month, The normal cost is $1600.00, but there was confusion about this and I balked when it was time to pay, and we settled on a lesser amount, which added a further level of respectability and ethics to the Shapiro Medical Group.

 

As far as Nicole is concerned, her grade is an A

 

She is very attentive and detail oriented, and does her labor intensive work with a great deal of concentration and stamina. She is an artist and does permanent cosmetics for women (on her own) as well as temporary SMP for men at SMG. She is also a great person and a lot of fun to talk to. I enjoyed my visits with her.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to try this on the scalp if it were not molested as mine has been, and if your strip scars are fairly flat, this will make a very noticeable difference in hiding them, although I cannot say that you will achieve full camouflage if you have not done FUE first. The FUE of around 700 grafts was the best camouflage I've had done to date.

 

And what's great about all this is you can try SMP and if you don't like the results, no worries, really. It may work fairly well for you in some areas, like my strip scars, and may not in others, like the scalp, so you can continue on with your treatments in some areas and not the others.

 

So that's my experience with temporary SMP.

[hairthere]

Wylie, Thanks for posting your experience. After looking at your pictures I can see your hair has various colors to it (blonde, brown, grey). This can make SMP a challenge. Do you happen to know what pigment number was used on your scalp? I wonder if the color used was too dark and that's why it's giving the impression of a bluish hue?

[NicH0le007]

Well, decided to do a little write up on my experience with temporary SMP. What I liked going into this was that all sessions would be done where there is existing hair, and no matter the end result, if I didn't like it it would (hopefully) disappear.

 

So I started with the scar repair, which is done in three sessions. This required a 1000 mile round trip journey three times to Minneapolis to the Shapiro Medical Group to see Nicole. We did the first session on the scarring, waited a month, did the second, and shortly thereafter, around a month later did the last session. These took place in 2014, around Spring time.

 

I would give this strip scar repair SMP a grade of: B-

 

The result was definitely better than average, I include the minus because there are two pencil thin scars fairly high up, where the hair is thinner, that still are visible even after repeated attempts to camouflage them. No shaving of my hair was necessary, my scars are all nice and flat, and the sessions generally took all day. The cost for three sessions was $800.00. I can shave my hair in back to a #1 guard, when previously I was shaving to a #1.5 guard. I feel more confident about the scarring in back after these sessions and would recommend it based on cost and efficacy. The color blending is very good, yet there is still some evidence of scarring visible. Personally, there is no substitute for adding hair to your scars. SMP is less effective but a perfect compliment for the FUE.

 

Now, on to the scalp. This turned out terrible. I have had multiple procedures on my head, most of them the dreaded "mini-grafts" of the 90's, which are just smaller plugs than found in the 80's. I've had Dr. Umar remove some of the more larger and egregious grafts, which has left me with a scalp that may resemble the appearance of a golf ball in places. Between these and all the beard hair added to hide them, my scalp is pitted and very uneven, making SMP a real challenge. So I want to make clear that my case is NOT going to be the same as someone who has never had a HT and is seeking temporary SMP, and it is also NOT going to be the same as someone how has undergone a state of the art FUE or FUT procedure as is currently used today.

 

My grade for the scalp result: F

 

This was a failure in my estimation, one month after the last procedure. The unevenness of my scalp led to what is being called "fading", where areas of my scalp are darker than others and quite noticeable if the scalp hair is parted away to reveal the effects of the ink. Another thing is the color, I notice a definite blush tint to everything on my scalp. This is likely the result of the ink fading and becoming darker in areas, giving it a more bluish tint. Not only do I not like the color but I don't like how it has "faded" and left islands of darker blue amongst the more natural looking and less bluish tint on other parts of my scalp. However, thanks to my scalp hair, none of this is really noticeable, so I'm not stressing. And my bald crown was untouched by the ink. It's possible none of these problems would have occurred on my crown as it remains unmolested by the HT industry, and will remain that way. Only doing half of the scalp is not how they normally do these sessions, but it's how I wanted mine done, as a bald crown being inked was not something I felt would look natural. The scalp procedure is all three sessions, and is done over two consecutive days, with a third day of follow up in a month, The normal cost is $1600.00, but there was confusion about this and I balked when it was time to pay, and we settled on a lesser amount, which added a further level of respectability and ethics to the Shapiro Medical Group.

 

As far as Nicole is concerned, her grade is an A

 

She is very attentive and detail oriented, and does her labor intensive work with a great deal of concentration and stamina. She is an artist and does permanent cosmetics for women (on her own) as well as temporary SMP for men at SMG. She is also a great person and a lot of fun to talk to. I enjoyed my visits with her.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to try this on the scalp if it were not molested as mine has been, and if your strip scars are fairly flat, this will make a very noticeable difference in hiding them, although I cannot say that you will achieve full camouflage if you have not done FUE first. The FUE of around 700 grafts was the best camouflage I've had done to date.

 

And what's great about all this is you can try SMP and if you don't like the results, no worries, really. It may work fairly well for you in some areas, like my strip scars, and may not in others, like the scalp, so you can continue on with your treatments in some areas and not the others.

 

So that's my experience with temporary SMP.

 

An F? Oh man, that's unacceptable. I want to work on this grade immediately. When you have time give me a call. FYI, when I say "when you have time", I mean, CALL ME ASAP.

Because you do have a great deal of scar tissue in your recipient zone from the multiple surgeries it obviously did change the outcome of your SMP result. Scar tissue is very unpredictable and it definitely fades more unevenly because it lacks proper circulation and its tissue depths can vary greatly in comparison to regular healthy scalp tissue. It's easy to point this out in strip scars results, but, the result you are describing on recipient/top sounds about the same. When we are working with scars we expect and anticipate irregular, patchy fading, and irregular pigment acceptance because of the abnormalities in the tissue. This is why we suggest only doing one pass per session and suggest multiple (min. three) sessions before an ideal result can be seen in scars. (Your B- donor area might need yet another pass).

Although color change can be caused by many different reasons, in scar tissue, my first instinct would be question if even .05 was even too deep in some areas because of the varying tissue depths. This causes our eye to perceive it as "blue" much like we perceive our blood running in our veins to be blue. Unfortunately, we can't see this on Day 1 because it happens as the pigment settles and heals under the skin. This is why SMP never looks the same on day 1-2 as it does on Day 30-45. The healing process changes it.

Because SMP is relatively new procedure to us we have been trying to go very slow and cautiously while monitoring our results with a very open mind. Our approach is very much research based and our theory has been to "question anything and everything we hear" from an educational standpoint and "always error on the side of caution" from a procedure standpoint. We are currently testing a smaller needle, and ongoing will always continue testing pigments and techniques until we find one that produces a predictable and consistent result. We know and respect that there is still a lot to be learned.

This is why we have also have chosen (and likely will always stay with) to do our SMP with temporary pigment. Because, in an instance like this a bright side still exists that does not involve another intrusive procedure. It will fade totally on its own over the course of the next year. The pigment was only placed .05 mm deep and is itself was designed to be "ate up" by your body’s own natural functions. It should be totally gone within the next year.

With all that being said, we still NEVER like to hear that someone is unhappy with a result. Your satisfaction is sincerely our number one priority. Again, please call me as soon as you can so we can discuss this further and arrangements can be made to rectify this.

[TakingThePlunge]

Great writeup Wylie! Very informative.

[NicH0le007]

Wylie, Thanks for posting your experience. After looking at your pictures I can see your hair has various colors to it (blonde, brown, grey). This can make SMP a challenge. Do you happen to know what pigment number was used on your scalp? I wonder if the color used was too dark and that's why it's giving the impression of a bluish hue?

 

If you would like to contact me I would be happy to talk to you and share information, discuss results, theories, etc. I honestly believe, that this is the best way to give our patients the best possible results that exist - eliminate transparency, communicate, and share information.

 

Msg me anytime. I look forward to talking to you.

[haircut]

Wylie,

 

It is hard to believe that you and I had the same SMP procedure at SMG. I am a month out from my third SMP session with Nicole and couldn't be happier.

 

My wife tells me that she can tell a hug difference. From what I understand about SMP, everyone responds differently.

 

Sorry that this didn't work out the way that you hoped. I am sure that SMG will do everything that they can to help.

[hairthere]

Hey Nicole,

I just PMed you.

 

Wylie, I'm not implying that Nicole did anything wrong here, btw. There is a basic medium brown color that we use which is appropriate for the majority of people and I am guessing that's what Nicole used, although she can verify. As noted, your scalp is tricky as it sounds like you have scar tissue present which does make SMP a bit difficult and unpredictable.

[wylie]

Nicole, thanks for your reply. There seems to be a dearth of personal experiences regarding SMP, besides a few pictures and parting comments, so I did a write up detailing my experience so that someone considering this and that has had prior HT's knows the risks. If this had of been permanent SMP I would be much more concerned than I am right now.

 

I don't know why the color has a blue tint, I don't think that would be the case if the color were consistent across the scalp, but in the darker regions, it has a bluish tint for sure. In the regions that have consistent color it looks less blue and more natural.

 

I don't think anything can be done other than letting nature run it's course and the ink eventually being expelled over time. This was a good test session and it basically told me that permanent SMP on the scalp is not a future option for me. So I view this result as a positive, as it keeps me from doing something permanent that I might likely consider an unacceptable result.

 

I think SMP on regions of scar tissue like my scalp is very unpredictable, and just by posting this experience I warn others of the risks. If someone does not have scar tissue on their scalp, they very likely won't experience what I did. And I'm still happy with the strip scar result, which I fully intend to continue my treatments with. Otherwise, no worries really, as the old saying goes, "This too shall pass."

 

Cheers.

[haircut]

Hi Wylie,

 

I wanted to follow up with my impression of SMP with Nicole at SMG. I had six FUT procedures via strip in the late 1990's. Luckily, I went to one of the best HT physicians of the age - Dr. Jaffee in Minneapolis.

 

Unfortunately, back in the day, strip scarring was much worse that it is now. (See donor area photo). My donor area was a mess.

 

While Nicole is not finished with my SMP, I have another round in August, I am already elated with the results. My wife feels that this is the best that she has ever seen my donor area!

 

Everyone responds differently to SMP. I was lucky enough to have a donor area that responded well. I have to tell you, I was worried about that.

 

So Wylie, I don't think that you will find anyone anywhere that does a better or more thoughtful job of SMP than Nicole at SMG. If anyone can make this right, it is Nicole and SMG.

 

Thank you for your time!

[scar5]

I don't like how it has "faded" and left islands of darker blue amongst the more natural looking and less bluish tint on other parts of my scalp.

 

Exactly what happened to me. And it happened regardless of the scar tissue.

I think that is important you pointed that out. This blotchy phenomena cannot be just put down to scar tissue. Biggest blotches in my case are about an inch are nearly inches by an inch. S Smaller ones are about .05 inch and like blobs of spilled paint.

 

Mine is not "temporary" although it has, and will continue to fade regardless.

[NicH0le007]

Exactly what happened to me. And it happened regardless of the scar tissue.

I think that is important you pointed that out. This blotchy phenomena cannot be just put down to scar tissue. Biggest blotches in my case are about an inch are nearly inches by an inch. S Smaller ones are about .05 inch and like blobs of spilled paint.

 

Mine is not "temporary" although it has, and will continue to fade regardless.

 

You are correct, there are many different causes for pigment migration outside of scar tissue. But, if it is present, scar tissue just complicates things further and definitely affects the predictability of the result.

 

Since permanent pigmentation is deposited deeper into the skin the chances of migration increase with placement alone. A few other factors to take into consideration are the pigment micron size and the machine that each individual institution uses. If the machine setting is running too quickly or aggressively it can cause excessive trauma to the impression. When the pigment is deposited into the impression it lays in a small "pool" at the bottom of the impression. If the trauma is more than the tissue between the impressions can handle, they all settle or "pool together" and form the larger "blobs" you are describing. Another thing that can exasperate this is the use of the popular

3-prong needle, which lays 3 tiny impressions very close together that resemble one dot. If the micron size of the pigment is small its even easier for it to migrate because the particles easily slip out of cell walls.

 

I'm yet to see any impression not grow slightly during healing. Permanent and non-permanent, single and multiple group cluster needles, shallow and deep placement, big/medium/small micron size. Our goal has been to be able to predicate and anticipate these changes with the healed result in mind. The road to this goal is bumpy.

 

Color change can also be caused by many things other than scar tissue. But again if present, it just complicates things further. Placement depth can cause color change, as well as, wrong color choices, natural skin undertones, sun exposure, skin damage, fading, etc. etc. etc.

 

These are all the things that make SMP so complex. Those "dots" are way more complicated than meets the eye. And, a large learning curve still exists. With that, I myself continue to stand behind a slow and non-aggressive approach to SMP including temporary pigment, and a multi-session treatment schedule. Makes it much easier to analyze should an instance like this happen. And, provides a little breathing room knowing it will soon be totally gone. Leaving us with a clean slate of options for repair.

 

If your SMP is still fading my fingers are crossed that they used a permanent cosmetic pigment which will hopefully be gone 3-5 years. I know you are on top of things but you can call them and ask. The pigment company they use should have a website full of info you might find helpful.

[fueonly]

As far as scar should be hidden by smp I agree. But smp for covering baldness no.

I would never pay 3 grands or 3 plus grands for black dots. I would rather have hair in the same price. Smp is black dot its ink not hair. Hair is hair. I have seen smp on peoples head even from his hair, milena and gli. Photos look totally different when you see real person with smp even with shave head look that looks clearly fake. Nothing like hair. its my opinion. I would say rather then photo look the person in real and at good length oh no I have seeen in sunlight as well as in night with night lights. Hair is hair. Ink is ink. Black dot on whole head can never ever be a substitute for hair.Their are doctors charging 2$ per graft and even 1.50$ per graft including body hair. I personally would go for yes real real hair not the ink in 3000$ or 3000$ plus. Thats like around 2000 to 2500 hair grafts wow

[scar5]

You are correct, there are many different causes for pigment migration outside of scar tissue. .

 

The thing that confounds me is that some patches are darker than others. I don't think it is a migration issue in terms of the ink moving laterally outwards. It is just that more ink ended up in the skin layers of certain areas/zones and less in others.

 

And so why could it be so?

 

One idea I have is that the epidermal and dermal layers are uneven across the scalp and the operator is not privy to it and ploughs on regardless. The thicker the epidermis, the lighter the final result once the superficial ink sheds.

 

Another idea is that the operator's posture and position in respect to the scalp changes and this results in variations in pressure applied, depth and time spent with the needles in the skin.

 

Thirdly, I think that when the operator dips the needle into the ink, the first areas treated will receive more ink, gradually decreasing until the operator has to 're-juice' the needles

 

Finally, operator and customer fatigue might combine to reduce precision and evenness as the procedure wears on. I find SMP extremely uncomfortable and I can't help being a but of baby, unconsciously urging on the operator.

 

And to add to your point about asking the clinic. I would be very, very surprised if my company would be willing to provide me with ink specifications. I think they will brush me off. The less they tell you, the less ammunition you have, and they know, all SMP operators know, that a fair degree of customers are unsatisfied (to say the least) and giving out details might come back to haunt them. Still, I might give it a shot.

[hairthere]

"Thirdly, I think that when the operator dips the needle into the ink, the first areas treated will receive more ink, gradually decreasing until the operator has to 're-juice' the needles"

 

The way Milena teaches you actually discharge pigment into a tissue after dipping. Then you blot into the tissue until you see a ring with a dot from the needle (.) This assures you are using an even amount of pigment and not overloading.

Edited August 1, 2014 by hairthere

[scar5]

"Thirdly, I think that when the operator dips the needle into the ink, the first areas treated will receive more ink, gradually decreasing until the operator has to 're-juice' the needles"

 

The way Milena teaches you actually discharge pigment into a tissue after dipping..

 

Yes, I have seen operators dabbing the nib of the needle(s) on an absorbant surface before applyong the ink.. but even so, I wonder about the bit where it starts to run dtyer. I am nly specualting as a consumer and naturally there would be many variables. I was warned of a,few things prior to doing it, but patchiness or blotchiness was never mentioned.,Naturally, the models used dont reflect it.

[haircut]

Scar5,

 

Did you speak with Nic0le007 about your concerns? I have spent three days with her having SMP done and could't be happier. In fact, I am going back later this month for my final round.

 

I posted a few photos to this post last week but they got caught in the spam filter. I assume that they will appear as soon as Bill clears them.

[NicH0le007]

The thing that confounds me is that some patches are darker than others. I don't think it is a migration issue in terms of the ink moving laterally outwards. It is just that more ink ended up in the skin layers of certain areas/zones and less in others.

 

And so why could it be so?

 

One idea I have is that the epidermal and dermal layers are uneven across the scalp and the operator is not privy to it and ploughs on regardless. The thicker the epidermis, the lighter the final result once the superficial ink sheds.

 

Another idea is that the operator's posture and position in respect to the scalp changes and this results in variations in pressure applied, depth and time spent with the needles in the skin.

 

Thirdly, I think that when the operator dips the needle into the ink, the first areas treated will receive more ink, gradually decreasing until the operator has to 're-juice' the needles

 

Finally, operator and customer fatigue might combine to reduce precision and evenness as the procedure wears on. I find SMP extremely uncomfortable and I can't help being a but of baby, unconsciously urging on the operator.

 

And to add to your point about asking the clinic. I would be very, very surprised if my company would be willing to provide me with ink specifications. I think they will brush me off. The less they tell you, the less ammunition you have, and they know, all SMP operators know, that a fair degree of customers are unsatisfied (to say the least) and giving out details might come back to haunt them. Still, I might give it a shot.

 

"pooled" pigment is in fact pigment migration. Same concept as if I touched a white fabric sheet with a black marker. It bleeds because the fibers of the sheet cannot hold all the ink that was deposited and it has to move somewhere. (This is just an example: insert any colored sheets, any type or colored markers, any type of fabric, lets not get into satin vs. cotton) <--bad joke

 

In my experience, SMP will always fade unevenly because of the differing layers of the tissue. As a pt. this should honestly be expected. This is why you should have a touch-up included in your initial treatment package. And, you should have a plan for one in place that is discussed before you begin.

 

What makes it tricky from an operator standpoint is that the "dots" look perfect and appear to be inserted all evenly during procedure and even the first few days post procedure and it's not until it has healed that the unevenness is revealed.(I use 7x magnification and have a special tool that allows me to look at pigment insertion depths under the skin). We should also remember that our "canvases" during procedure are not picture perfect. They are red, swollen, perhaps blanched from adrenaline, raised and patchy, have pigments smears that lay in pores, and blood and body fluids are present. Then add, some people have hair that we are working around.

 

I think you make so many great points. All issues, I myself personally as an operator am happy I can control (not everyone can control their work schedule). These are also issues I am also always passionately advocating. "SMP mega sessions should not be an option, "one and done" is not smart, your hand and eyes will and do get tired, etc. ect. etc."

 

That is why, I think, the real issue to be discussed is the "treatment timetable". SMP is a great tool in the battle against hair loss if it is administered responsibly. We have had a great deal of success overall with a slow moving treatment schedule. Watching the healing before moving forward makes it much easier for overall safe strategy building.

 

Another talkable point, from an operator standpoint, is that it's the patients we usually have to slow down. Most people do not want the inconvenience of a multi-session procedure, more travel + hotel costs, etc. They want it as dark as possible and as fast as possible. Sticking to our protocols is important no matter how convincing or demanding people are. I talk with many SMP operators weekly, many of these people are my friends, the thing with this is...protocols are new. In the past, operators would let pts tell them what they wanted and if it went against their recommendations the pt just signed a waiver. That was a terrible idea. (lets discuss one issue IE:the low hairline) Many of these weird hairlines we have viewed and shook our heads at were someone's "desire"--"deepest desire" --"all they ever wanted, again", "I just want to feel young again" etc. Then when they hated it -- online they came to complain. But,the whole story was never revealed and the mention of "their deepest desire" was gone.

 

I can't tell you how many people I refuse to work with because I will not use the color black or will not make their heads one solid color, nor go infront of existing hairlines, etc. "But Nicole, I can still see some flesh color on my scalp", "But Nicole, when I use dermatch/toppik I can't see my scalp, lets make it darker" "But Nicole, I want to do this so bad but I can't afford to travel that much let's just get it all done in one day" "Nicole, this hairline is still too high, when I was 21 it was so much lower, and I liked it so much better" ..... Protocols, these are all things that are changing to make SMP safer for the future.

 

As far as transparency is concerned, companies should start to become more comfortable discussing pigment brands. Many laser technicians are wanting more specific information before they will do removals. They may not give you that information right away, but, I think your persistence will pay off.

[NicH0le007]

Scar5,

 

Did you speak with Nic0le007 about your concerns? I have spent three days with her having SMP done and could't be happier. In fact, I am going back later this month for my final round.

 

I posted a few photos to this post last week but they got caught in the spam filter. I assume that they will appear as soon as Bill clears them.

 

Scar 5 had permanent SMP with a different company.

[haircut]

Hi Nic0le007,

 

My sincere apology. For some reason I got the posts by Scar 5 and Wylie confused. Sorry about that. :-(

[NicH0le007]

Hi Nic0le007,

 

My sincere apology. For some reason I got the posts by Scar 5 and Wylie confused. Sorry about that. :-(

 

forgiven.

 

I just wanted to clarify for you!

[NicH0le007]

Nicole, thanks for your reply. There seems to be a dearth of personal experiences regarding SMP, besides a few pictures and parting comments, so I did a write up detailing my experience so that someone considering this and that has had prior HT's knows the risks. If this had of been permanent SMP I would be much more concerned than I am right now.

 

I don't know why the color has a blue tint, I don't think that would be the case if the color were consistent across the scalp, but in the darker regions, it has a bluish tint for sure. In the regions that have consistent color it looks less blue and more natural.

 

I don't think anything can be done other than letting nature run it's course and the ink eventually being expelled over time. This was a good test session and it basically told me that permanent SMP on the scalp is not a future option for me. So I view this result as a positive, as it keeps me from doing something permanent that I might likely consider an unacceptable result.

 

I think SMP on regions of scar tissue like my scalp is very unpredictable, and just by posting this experience I warn others of the risks. If someone does not have scar tissue on their scalp, they very likely won't experience what I did. And I'm still happy with the strip scar result, which I fully intend to continue my treatments with. Otherwise, no worries really, as the old saying goes, "This too shall pass."

 

Cheers.

 

In my opinion, the people on the forums couldn't ask for a more honest person to seek experience from than you. You my friend, have been through it all. Partially why it's so frustrating to me that SMP wasn't successful for you -- is that I truly want you to be able to experience the feeling of "true freedom" that comes from being able to move on from this long repair battle. You deserve that. And, It will come. We will just have to go back to the drawing board. I appreciate you writing up your experience. We still do have a lot to learn. I'm going to change the treatment schedule protocol for people that have had multiple transplants on top to the same schedule as I would treat a strip scar. 3 one day sessions. All six weeks apart. Slow it down and watch it some more.

I call it "The Wylie Schedule" <--another bad joke.

 

I joke and have bad and sometimes extreme analogies only because I believe we need laughter and smiles during times of frustration. Hope cannot be lost.

 

While more SMP is not in your future for the recipient. I look forward to continuing to work with you on your donor area. And, Dr.Ron has a few ideas up his sleeve we can chat about to get you closer to the end of this battle.

 

Nicole

[BaldKen2]

Nicole, thanks for your reply. There seems to be a dearth of personal experiences regarding SMP, besides a few pictures and parting comments, so I did a write up detailing my experience so that someone considering this and that has had prior HT's knows the risks. If this had of been permanent SMP I would be much more concerned than I am right now.

 

I don't know why the color has a blue tint, I don't think that would be the case if the color were consistent across the scalp, but in the darker regions, it has a bluish tint for sure. In the regions that have consistent color it looks less blue and more natural.

 

I don't think anything can be done other than letting nature run it's course and the ink eventually being expelled over time. This was a good test session and it basically told me that permanent SMP on the scalp is not a future option for me. So I view this result as a positive, as it keeps me from doing something permanent that I might likely consider an unacceptable result.

 

I think SMP on regions of scar tissue like my scalp is very unpredictable, and just by posting this experience I warn others of the risks. If someone does not have scar tissue on their scalp, they very likely won't experience what I did. And I'm still happy with the strip scar result, which I fully intend to continue my treatments with. Otherwise, no worries really, as the old saying goes, "This too shall pass."

 

Cheers.

 

Sorry to hear about your disappointing result. At least you had the wisdom to opt for the temporary smp rather than permanent, hopefully it fades fully. I am not convinced it will fully fade though, I tried to tell you some months back.

SMP can work well for guys who have no HT scarring but I do not feel that it is ethical for smp businesses to perform smp on HT patients. They are really not candidates for SMP. Scar tissue is too unpredictable to tattoo and its makeup is completely different than regular skin. I know 3 guys who had hts and scarring and 3 out of 3 ended up with blue scars and blue blurry dots on the scalp. Needless to say these chaps were all devastated and angry the providers were not honest with them that this would be outcome. Even the owner of one of the more "reputable" smp businesses has blue blurred dots on his head because of his ht scar tissue. Ive seen in person, it looked bad.

Cannot really speak for the temporary SMP guys like the one you went to b/c I have no experience in dealing with them but Just a lot of dishonesty in SMP industry in general. Many will say they "guarantee" the same outcome for every person using the exact same tattooing regiment. Anyone who has studied even basic level health sciences or Anatomy and Physiology and understands the basics of the integumentary system and immune cell responses, knows that each person will retain and absorb inks differently and fading varies based on many individual factors. No point in going into further detail, you can even learn that on Wikipedia or more reliable health science websites if you aren't educated.

People need to be careful with smp. Many of the businesses present a very convincing professional educated experienced facade, but based on my experiences most of the employees and practitioners of these places only have experience consisting of nothing more than Sales, Hair Salon Employees, Secretaries real estate or just have very basic Cosmetology certifications. None of these qualifies someone to do micropigmentation on your head.

[AlexParker55]

Hi, wylie i hope that you are fine, i read your thread and got it you are absolutely right, and you have really EXP Thanks

[NicH0le007]

Sorry to hear about your disappointing result. At least you had the wisdom to opt for the temporary smp rather than permanent, hopefully it fades fully. I am not convinced it will fully fade though, I tried to tell you some months back.

SMP can work well for guys who have no HT scarring but I do not feel that it is ethical for smp businesses to perform smp on HT patients. They are really not candidates for SMP. Scar tissue is too unpredictable to tattoo and its makeup is completely different than regular skin. I know 3 guys who had hts and scarring and 3 out of 3 ended up with blue scars and blue blurry dots on the scalp. Needless to say these chaps were all devastated and angry the providers were not honest with them that this would be outcome. Even the owner of one of the more "reputable" smp businesses has blue blurred dots on his head because of his ht scar tissue. Ive seen in person, it looked bad.

Cannot really speak for the temporary SMP guys like the one you went to b/c I have no experience in dealing with them but Just a lot of dishonesty in SMP industry in general. Many will say they "guarantee" the same outcome for every person using the exact same tattooing regiment. Anyone who has studied even basic level health sciences or Anatomy and Physiology and understands the basics of the integumentary system and immune cell responses, knows that each person will retain and absorb inks differently and fading varies based on many individual factors. No point in going into further detail, you can even learn that on Wikipedia or more reliable health science websites if you aren't educated.

People need to be careful with smp. Many of the businesses present a very convincing professional educated experienced facade, but based on my experiences most of the employees and practitioners of these places only have experience consisting of nothing more than Sales, Hair Salon Employees, Secretaries real estate or just have very basic Cosmetology certifications. None of these qualifies someone to do micropigmentation on your head.

 

SMP can be a great solution for people with scars, but not everyone scarred or unscarred is a candidate for SMP. But, everyone should understand that scar tissue is very unpredictable. No guarantees should ever be made. If someone tells you that every patient they have ever worked with is happy they are LYING! SMP has a huge learning curve. It personally took me hundreds of procedures with hand holding before I was ready to go on my own. Even now, obviously, still learning to do. Temporary SMP has been a relatively new procedure to the world of SMP (which is a baby itself) in the last few years. The thing to keep in mind about temporary is that IT WILL FADE. If it is left unmaintained it will disappear. This is a great game changer for those people who want to test the SMP waters before diving into permanent. Another thing to ask your SMP clinic provider is what their policies are for unsatisfied customers...What if it turns blue? What if it migrates? What if?????? Know what they are going to do to help you if you dislike the result. SMP is art + science. Nothing is exact.

[BaldKen2]

If someone tells you that every patient they have ever worked with is happy they are LYING! Another thing to ask your SMP clinic provider is what their policies are for unsatisfied customers...What if it turns blue? What if it migrates? What if?????? Know what they are going to do to help you if you dislike the result. SMP is art + science. Nothing is exact.

 

Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes! I agree and great points all around.

For everyone who has worked in sales or in any customer service capacity, you know that there are just some customers or clients that you will never please, regardless of how many hoops you jump through or how many extra miles you travel for them. Whether it is just the Client's unrealistic expectations, confrontational personality type, or flawed perception of reality (I.E. his or her smp results) there will always be some people who will complain about the services and results you provide for them, no matter how good both are.

And I think these are great questions to ask, and guarantees to get. If the worst case scenario occurs and there is migration or color change, how will the clinic address these issues and is their work guaranteed?

Another important question to ask is- Will the clinic finish your SMP process to completion? - The trend in SMP industry seems to be a "One and Done" Approach, which for all who understand the way the body works, specifically Immune cell response in relation to tattoo "trauma", you know that there is no such thing as a "One Size Fits All" when speaking about SMP. Always make sure that your satisfaction is guaranteed.