My Temporary SMP Experience

[NicH0le007]

Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes! I agree and great points all around.

For everyone who has worked in sales or in any customer service capacity, you know that there are just some customers or clients that you will never please, regardless of how many hoops you jump through or how many extra miles you travel for them. Whether it is just the Client's unrealistic expectations, confrontational personality type, or flawed perception of reality (I.E. his or her smp results) there will always be some people who will complain about the services and results you provide for them, no matter how good both are.

And I think these are great questions to ask, and guarantees to get. If the worst case scenario occurs and there is migration or color change, how will the clinic address these issues and is their work guaranteed?

Another important question to ask is- Will the clinic finish your SMP process to completion? - The trend in SMP industry seems to be a "One and Done" Approach, which for all who understand the way the body works, specifically Immune cell response in relation to tattoo "trauma", you know that there is no such thing as a "One Size Fits All" when speaking about SMP. Always make sure that your satisfaction is guaranteed.

 

I can see the appeal of "one and done". Wouldn't it be so nice to just end the hassle of all this hair loss trauma with just one procedure and then not have to think about it anymore.... It's so dreamy sounding....but, unfortunately that's about all it is - a dream. A dream that can easily turn into a nightmare by virtue of a permanent blue solid colored head, or a hairline lower than Eddie Munster's or straighter than this week's most popular rapper. I always like to remind my patients that while travel and multiple sessions can be a bit more of a hassle - repair work is a HUGE hassle. It's always easier to add more pigment than it is to subtract it. Start with your hairline slightly higher than you ideally would like and your tone slightly lighter...leave a little room to wiggle. For many of us this will be the first time we see ourselves in this "style" we don't know exactly what will look best. You should have some "touch-up" sessions built into your initial session fee for these corrections.

[BaldKen2]

I can see the appeal of "one and done". Wouldn't it be so nice to just end the hassle of all this hair loss trauma with just one procedure and then not have to think about it anymore.... It's so dreamy sounding....but, unfortunately that's about all it is - a dream. A dream that can easily turn into a nightmare by virtue of a permanent blue solid colored head, or a hairline lower than Eddie Munster's or straighter than this week's most popular rapper. I always like to remind my patients that while travel and multiple sessions can be a bit more of a hassle - repair work is a HUGE hassle. It's always easier to add more pigment than it is to subtract it. Start with your hairline slightly higher than you ideally would like and your tone slightly lighter...leave a little room to wiggle. For many of us this will be the first time we see ourselves in this "style" we don't know exactly what will look best. You should have some "touch-up" sessions built into your initial session fee for these corrections.

 

Exactly! And What people tend to forget, especially younger clients in their 20s, is that while these low straight hairlines with the angled side profiles may look sharp while they are still young, they will probably look pretty silly when they are in their 40s and 50s. I agree it is best to go conservative at first, and then just as you say, you can always add pigment later which is far easier than laser removal. It is easy to get greedy when trying to cheat hair loss, and go super extreme with the hairlines and density of Replicated Follicles, but these styles can have dire consequences down the road. Realistic trumps Extreme in my opinion.

As far as the One and Done SMPs, they are certainly an appealing Idea, but just as you said, I also do not agree that this is in the best interest of the client. I feel that each individual should be assessed after the first session has had time to settle and, based on his or her retention of and response to the pigments, further treatments should be done if necessary to meet that individual's needs. The number of treatments is strictly based on each individual's ability to retain and their reaction the the pigments. Everyone's body chemistry is different. There is No one size fits all when dealing with Physiology. While it can be a hassle to fly back in forth to a clinic, this is just a necessary part of the process that must be accepted by the client. If the client is not willing to do this, I don't feel they are a candidate for SMP.

[wylie]

Temporary SMP has been a relatively new procedure to the world of SMP (which is a baby itself) in the last few years. The thing to keep in mind about temporary is that IT WILL FADE. If it is left unmaintained it will disappear. This is a great game changer for those people who want to test the SMP waters before diving into permanent. Another thing to ask your SMP clinic provider is what their policies are for unsatisfied customers...What if it turns blue? What if it migrates? What if?????? Know what they are going to do to help you if you dislike the result. SMP is art + science. Nothing is exact.

 

Well, I just get back from a touch-up visit with Nic0le, and Dr. Ron was scheduled to see me as well. As far as I could tell, the only reason Dr. Ron was there on Friday was to meet with me, as he came in wearing shorts and was preparing to leave for Asia for the annual gathering of doctors from all around the world at their yearly summit.

 

We discussed my options, he looked closely at my hair and took photos, and we discussed a range of possibilities. He then refunded my money paid and Nic0le worked for a few hours touching up my scar tissue.

 

The area that I'm not happy with is a fairly small region of my frontal scalp, it has seen a number of extractions by Dr. Umar to remove some of the more offensive "mini-grafts" from the 90's, and this region is probably impossible to achieve a uniform color on. The majority of the scalp looks pretty good to me and I'm happy with the color, but one region of my scalp makes any further attempts of SMP on anything other than my strip scars not a viable option.

 

A couple updated take aways from my experience:

 

1) SMG is an ethical, professional, and first rate medical clinic that has a well deserved reputation for stellar results. How many SMP clinics would not only refund my money but take the time to discuss all my options available to me before they did? None?

 

2) The SMP is temporary, which should be someones first choice IMO when considering SMP, and there will never be a uniform result on any spectrum of patients. There are myriad factors one must consider that makes each result unique, and my problem was previous sub-par surgery, some of which had to be removed. This was an external issue, but many internal issues unique to each patient can affect any outcome.

 

3) There are simply too many unknowns in this type of surgery to opt for a permanent solution, because permanent is just that, and if unhappy with the result, you are stuck with it. Had I have opted for HIS or GoodLookInk and achieved this uneven type of color on one portion of my scalp, I would have to live with it. And neither of those companies would have issued me a refund for my dissatisfaction.

 

I also agree with BaldKen's explanation of customers who have unrealistic expectations and a flawed perception of reality. At least with SMP it is somewhat easier to quantify the result then the number of grafts that have grown or the subjective result of a HT. In the end I am very glad that I opted for temporary SMP over permanent, and plan on continuing treatment of my strip scars. That removes one of the two remaining issues I have with my hair. I think that this industry will continue to evolve and results will continue to improve, and maybe someday permanent SMP will achieve more reliable results. But in the meantime, opt for temporary SMP and see if this is right for you.

[BaldKen2]

Well, I just get back from a touch-up visit with Nic0le, and Dr. Ron was scheduled to see me as well. As far as I could tell, the only reason Dr. Ron was there on Friday was to meet with me, as he came in wearing shorts and was preparing to leave for Asia for the annual gathering of doctors from all around the world at their yearly summit.

 

We discussed my options, he looked closely at my hair and took photos, and we discussed a range of possibilities. He then refunded my money paid and Nic0le worked for a few hours touching up my scar tissue.

 

The area that I'm not happy with is a fairly small region of my frontal scalp, it has seen a number of extractions by Dr. Umar to remove some of the more offensive "mini-grafts" from the 90's, and this region is probably impossible to achieve a uniform color on. The majority of the scalp looks pretty good to me and I'm happy with the color, but one region of my scalp makes any further attempts of SMP on anything other than my strip scars not a viable option.

 

A couple updated take aways from my experience:

 

1) SMG is an ethical, professional, and first rate medical clinic that has a well deserved reputation for stellar results. How many SMP clinics would not only refund my money but take the time to discuss all my options available to me before they did? None?

 

2) The SMP is temporary, which should be someones first choice IMO when considering SMP, and there will never be a uniform result on any spectrum of patients. There are myriad factors one must consider that makes each result unique, and my problem was previous sub-par surgery, some of which had to be removed. This was an external issue, but many internal issues unique to each patient can affect any outcome.

 

3) There are simply too many unknowns in this type of surgery to opt for a permanent solution, because permanent is just that, and if unhappy with the result, you are stuck with it. Had I have opted for HIS or GoodLookInk and achieved this uneven type of color on one portion of my scalp, I would have to live with it. And neither of those companies would have issued me a refund for my dissatisfaction.

 

I also agree with BaldKen's explanation of customers who have unrealistic expectations and a flawed perception of reality. At least with SMP it is somewhat easier to quantify the result then the number of grafts that have grown or the subjective result of a HT. In the end I am very glad that I opted for temporary SMP over permanent, and plan on continuing treatment of my strip scars. That removes one of the two remaining issues I have with my hair. I think that this industry will continue to evolve and results will continue to improve, and maybe someday permanent SMP will achieve more reliable results. But in the meantime, opt for temporary SMP and see if this is right for you.

 

Yea, permanent smp is not for everyone, and I think you made a good choice going for temporary just to see if it was for you or not. It definitely isn't for everyone. I had permanent smp several years ago, and it still looks great, but who knows what it will look like 3-5 years from now? It could still change color or become blurry or migrate. There is just no way to know, smp is too new, and there are so many individual factors involved. I may have to get laser treatment done at some point, there are no guarantees in this thing, just as you said, so permanent smp is Definitely a gamble for sure. So far I am pretty happy, but it is not perfect and anyone who tells you smp is perfect is probably a SHILL or Lying to themselves and you. To be honest, I still feel I need more sessions to complete the smp work, but have not had a chance to fly back to clinic.

 

Smp is also a matter of perspective and what kind of hair loss you are going into SMP with. I had been buzzing my head for a couple of years and liked the way that looked but just wanted to fill in the gaps and make it look more full and less "flesh-colored" in some areas of my scalp. But, if you are a guy who wears a hair piece, or have thin hair and just comb it over or use a concealer, and then you go get SMP and start rocking the "bald by Choice" look, it can be a very difficult transition and less satisfying for sure, b/c you will be so used to seeing yourself with hair (Not to mention everyone around you is used to seeing you with hair) and after shaving your head, even with smp, it can be a shock to you and the people around you so you may not get pleasant feedback. I always tell guys who are thinking of having smp, that they should lose the hairpiece or shave their head first, so they and their coworkers, friends and family can get used to that look, and they can see if they even like having a shaved head (it can get cold sometimes lol) and then go for smp if shaved works for them. Plus, after having a bald head for a little while, smp will be an improvement rather than a perceived downgrade from the hairpiece, comb over, or thin hair + concealer.

Shapiro Medical is definitely a legit establishment and their reputation is outstanding. They learned temp Smp under the best, Milena Lardi of Bella Medical, so you know they have good training.

[hairthere]

I've also been using the pigments/machine that Milena Lardi uses and can tell you without a doubt it fades completely. (Aside from performing it, I've had it done on my own scalp.) The pigment is deposited just .5mm in the upper part of the dermis. Also, the particles are 15 microns and uniform in size, which means they are small enough to be absorbed and expelled (tattoo pigment on the other hand, goes to lower dermis, 20+microns, various shapes, which is why it's permanent). The particles in Milena's pigment are also coated in a liquid film so they never come in contact with your body (hence they are nonallergenic).

 

As far as scar work, I agree it is unpredictable and also why, like Nicole suggested, it is prudent to perform a test patch. I also offer test patches for other parts of the scalp.

 

Wylie, glad to hear you went the temporary route, and with a skilled practitioner like Nicole. Rest assured the pigment will eventually disappear.

[Jk11k]

As far as Nicole is concerned, her grade is an A

 

She is very attentive and detail oriented, and does her labor intensive work with a great deal of concentration and stamina. She is an artist and does permanent cosmetics for women (on her own) as well as temporary SMP for men at SMG. She is also a great person and a lot of fun to talk to. I enjoyed my visits with her.

 

Methinks attractive women are no accident in this field, as they naturally inspire men to get hairier, so to speak. Not being cynical, of course.

[scar5]

The pigment is deposited just .5mm in the upper part of the dermis.

 

I think temp SMP is great and all, but..

 

What do you mean here? .5mm into the dermis? or .5mm from the surface of the skin?

 

From what I understand, the depths of the dermal and epidermal layer vary in the body, and they also vary across any single person's scalp.

 

Then, to add to the complexity, the dermal layer is not smooth, it has a layer called the dermal papillae which is not flat, in fact it is made up of elongated protruding nodules that reach into the epidermis to oxygenate it, and to ventilate toxins into it.

 

So when an SMP practitioner starts banging away, she or he maybe hitting either or both the dermal layer or the epidermal layer and there is no way to tell which

is which. The response, I guess, is to go lower and hence 'permanent - although my 'permanent' is barely 50% after 30 months - or it is to go so shallow (temporary) that all of it is so superficial that it is extremely shallow. Even the mildest sunburn might compromise it.

Edited November 17, 2014 by scar5
remove a (

[BaldKen2]

although my 'permanent' is barely 50% after 30 months -

Then it clearly isn't "permanent", and you received a poor result from subpar smp work. My smp was completed several years ago and it has not faded- I've tracked the stages with high def photos. All of the pseudo-science and over analyzed bs you spouted is useless "knowledge" if u couldn't manage to apply it to your selection of a valid provider. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but just being real with you.

[hairthere]

Scar5,

The needle is .5mm fully extended. Could it be deposited deeper even with the needle set at that depth? Sure, if the practitioner were to press too hard or to "bang away." But my training and some experience taught me not to do that.

 

As far as the lasting time of temporary, I have a guy who is a NW6, had his done 1.5 years ago, gets tons of sun exposure (he's a surfer) and he still has most of the pigment holding. Some has faded and he'll likely need a touch-up around the 2 year mark.

Edited November 18, 2014 by hairthere

[scar5]

Then it clearly isn't "permanent"...

...All of the pseudo-science and over analyzed bs you spouted is useless "knowledge" if u couldn't manage to apply it to your selection of a valid provider. .

 

Here is more spouting.

 

First

I think it is normal to make educated guesses and be wrong. I am sure you know that by now Ken. What you do is try to err on the side of caution taking in all your guesses, your knowledge etc., into account. Valid provider?? Who are you kidding? This is SMP right?

 

Second

I was told that it would significantly fade and I was happy about that and I am happy that it happened that way. I believe that the distinction between permanent and temp is more fuzzy than we are led to believe.

 

Third

It faded at least 30% within 30 days, again I was aware that it might be the case.

 

Fouthly

I believe that the ink that is remaining is more or less 'permanent' What I have left is a grey tint on my scalp that really helps the illusion of density.

 

Finally

All of that is science, just facts that you can look up. I guess you must already know that, hence...

 

Don't worry about being harsh, hard love on HTN is what it is all about.

 

However, I am not so proud of my choice as a consumer. I wouldn't dare to be so cocky. Most of us make decisions about these sorts of things quite tentatively and with a great deal of risk and hope. I am glad to say it really helped me and that SMP can be great for people who had strip transplants and kept losing their hair.

Edited November 23, 2014 by scar5
Fourthly...

[BaldKen2]

Here is more spouting.

 

First

I think it is normal to make educated guesses and be wrong. I am sure you know that by now Ken. What you do is try to err on the side of caution taking in all your guesses, your knowledge etc., into account. Valid provider?? Who are you kidding? This is SMP right?

 

Second

I was told that it would significantly fade and I was happy about that and I am happy that it happened that way. I believe that the distinction between permanent and temp is more fuzzy than we are led to believe.

 

Third

It faded at least 30% within 30 days, again I was aware that it might be the case.

 

Fouthly

I believe that the ink that is remaining is more or less 'permanent' What I have left is a grey tint on my scalp that really helps the illusion of density.

 

Finally

All of that is science, just facts that you can look up. I guess you must already know that, hence...

 

Don't worry about being harsh, hard love on HTN is what it is all about.

 

However, I am not so proud of my choice as a consumer. I wouldn't dare to be so cocky. Most of us make decisions about these sorts of things quite tentatively and with a great deal of risk and hope. I am glad to say it really helped me and that SMP can be great for people who had strip transplants and kept losing their hair.

 

I'm sorry if my post was a bit blunt, did not mean to offend, but was just trying to make a point. I guess that point is this- All of the science and speculation makes Zero difference in the end if you do not have experience personally performing SMP, and if you don't ( I know I have never performed SMP) then all of the science and cellular factors really don't matter. There is no advice or valuable contribution of information on SMP that I can provide b/c I have no applied knowledge, I am only a recipient of SMP, not a practitioner. I guess I am also realizing this for myself at this point, and probably am preaching to myself as well LOL. I understand Anatomy and Physiology and auto immune responses of the macrophages and neutrophils, and I know all of the statistics and measurements of Needle sizes, Insertion Depths, Particle sizes contained in various pigments, organic pigments and inorganic pigments, different Micropigmentation machines and brands with speeds and punctures per minute etc etc bla bla bla bla LOL. But honestly, none of those facts and stats even matter b/c at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the finished result, and the longevity of a quality result. I have searched quite a bit for knowledge on Scalp Micropigmentation in hopes that I could find an easier more convenient option for enhancements when my results begin to fade (b/c they will fade at some point). The Clinic I got my smp done at is across the country from my home, so I have to fly there if I want to add more density or adjust the hairline or whatever i need over the years. I have looked around my city and state and neighboring state for micropigmentation artists/practitioners who could possibly help me, but after speaking with dozens of them I have learned that SMP is a specific and specialized skill that should only be performed by a practitioner who does Hair Follicle Replication Exclusively. And at this current time there are not Reputable SMP clinics in every state, although that may change in the next 10 years. Tattooing hundreds of tiny dots to look like follicles, at just the right depth with just the right amount of pressure, is not an easy task and requires a lot of skill and experience. If practitioner goes to shallow or too deep on just one dot, you have a problem.

If you look at some of my previous posts, at one time I actually believed that any skilled tattoo artist could do smp, but I have learned through research and from talking to many traditional tattoo artists and cosmetic practitioners that I WAS ABSOLUTELY WRONG. The right skills, equipment, and pigments are necessary for a quality smp result.

I suppose my bottom line here is that you and I can sit here all day and Regurgitate all of the science and stats and info that we have learned online or in our science books, but all of us who are not experienced SMP practitioners are simply in the dark and must choose our SMP providers based not on science, but on proven results that we can see in person with our own two eyes. And I realize that this is not an easy task, what with all of the deception that goes on in the Cosmetic industry as a whole. But there are some quality, honest providers out there and I am so happy that I found one. And yes, there are VALID PROVIDERS out there. I don't know why 'Provider A' is able to produce a good SMP result while 'Provider B' produces a poor result with color change and migration. I honestly do not know that answer and that is why the good providers are making tons of money right now. And in the end you are right, it is always going to be somewhat of a gamble choosing smp provider, no matter how good the provider's reputation is or how many great results they have produced. We are all different, and everyone responds differently to smp treatments.

I am not certain what your current SMP situation is regarding your results, but if they have faded can't you just return to your provider and receive more smp? Or if you are not happy with your initial provider have you thought about finding a better one? I know it can be a discouraging journey for sure. Again, did not mean to offend with my previous post.

[scar5]

So what then are the 'correct' parameters? What is the correct ink? The correct needle size, cluster? The speed? The pressure?

 

Now before you say, "everyone is different", let's assume that that goes without even saying so.

 

And how does one know to trust an operator? I think none of us completely trusts them, and for good reason.

 

 

Regarding your story, I'm not trying be a wise ass but you seem to saying;

 

you should base your decision on results by extensively checking,

everybody is different so there is no telling what's gonna happen,

you studied the technical aspects really hard and,

studying the technical aspects is meaningless?

 

i think it is nigh impossible to do the results thing because you need to see these patients in the flesh over the course of several years - and quite a lot of them.

You can certainly dismiss a bad job, but how likely is it that they will be available for you?

 

I agree we are different.

 

I think study of the technical aspects is important. if you make the wrong call, you make the wrong call. The SMP operators are changing their stuff too, so you have to keep up, and whenever they innovate you lose what little evidence you would have gotten. Not to mention that they rotate, get better, get worse.

 

So what I am saying is that you compromise. You try to learn, you try to see and you know you get spin every step of the way.

[BaldKen2]

So what then are the 'correct' parameters? What is the correct ink? The correct needle size, cluster? The speed? The pressure?

 

Now before you say, "everyone is different", let's assume that that goes without even saying so.

 

And how does one know to trust an operator? I think none of us completely trusts them, and for good reason.

 

 

Regarding your story, I'm not trying be a wise ass but you seem to saying;

 

you should base your decision on results by extensively checking,

everybody is different so there is no telling what's gonna happen,

you studied the technical aspects really hard and,

studying the technical aspects is meaningless?

 

i think it is nigh impossible to do the results thing because you need to see these patients in the flesh over the course of several years - and quite a lot of them.

You can certainly dismiss a bad job, but how likely is it that they will be available for you?

 

I agree we are different.

 

I think study of the technical aspects is important. if you make the wrong call, you make the wrong call. The SMP operators are changing their stuff too, so you have to keep up, and whenever they innovate you lose what little evidence you would have gotten. Not to mention that they rotate, get better, get worse.

 

So what I am saying is that you compromise. You try to learn, you try to see and you know you get spin every step of the way.

 

I definitely understand where you are coming from. I am also a person who likes to analyze things down to the last detail and try and gather as much knowledge and info on a subject as possible (especially something like this that affects my appearance). But honestly, beyond making sure that your provider adheres to health and sanitation regulations as well as safety, and ensuring that the clinic has legit Micropigmentation certifications and resumes for their practitioners and good results(and any reputable clinic will have all of that), there is really not much else you can do. It is absolutely necessary to practice Due Diligence when researching smp clinics in order to ensure that you are dealing with experienced practitioners, but There is such a thing as overkill when doing research. What it all boils down to is that YOU CANNOT CONTROL EVERYTHING. AT SOME POINT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TRUST YOUR SCALP TO A PRACTITIONER AND HOPE THAT YOU ARE IN CAPABLE HANDS. There is no sure thing, and going into SMP we as clients all know and understand this, b/c this treatment is still so young and unproven in terms of longevity. Did all of your research and studying up on SMP cause you to achieve a better result? It does not seem so, b/c you seem quite dissatisfied with your smp treatment and you have said that it has faded significantly. Either your selection process was flawed, or you just happen to have a poor result for another reason, but you selected a provider using the information that was available to you and no one can fault you b/c you did your research.

Every time you decide to fly somewhere you are trusting your life to the pilot. No amount of knowledge and education on Aviation is going to help you at 40,000 feet if something goes wrong. You do your best to select a reputable airline, and then the outcome is out of your hands.

And I know that SMP is different b/c of the fact that it is such a new treatment. Choosing an SMP provider is not like picking a Cable or internet provider. There are no SMP businesses that have been proven and established for decades or anything. The oldest Scalp Micropigmentation Provider has only been around since 2002. And you and I both know that the SMP industry holds their cards very close to the vest. Even if you have a book of information on smp and show up for a consultation and ask these providers questions regarding their methods, equipment, or pigments, we both know that you will get very vague and non-specific answers. And I do not blame them, they are simply protecting their business.

I absolutely agree with you that it is very important to stay educated and up to date with the changes and new developments within the SMP industry, and I am doing the same thing by reading and participating on the forums. But my point is that other than aiding the potential client in the selection of a provider, this information and research on SMP is not going to do much for you and will not help you achieve a better result. Unless, of course, you decide to take micropigmentation training courses and become certified. Then that is a whole other story b/c you will have actual experience.

I do feel that there is a lot to be gained from communicating with fellow SMP clients and smp experts online, and learning new ways of living with and managing smp results. Such as moisturizer lotions, sunscreens, mattifiers, Clippers and shavers etc.