First Day In Turkey with Dr. Koray Erdogan

[matts7989]

Hi thanks for that, I would love a transplant but I think ill wait anyways see how it goes ,

im gona research into seeing someone anyways as I wanna find out whats happen to my hair

ive been doing some research and came accross somethin called scalp micro pigmentation basically a tattoo? Ive been youtubing it and it looks fantastic

somethinf I might co sider to

although its mainly for someone whos completly bald but I only wanna fill in my temples im sure I can find a haircut design I could make to make it blend in lol

 

what do you think?

[matts7989]

Hi thanks for that, I would love a transplant but I think ill wait anyways see how it goes ,

im gona research into seeing someone anyways as I wanna find out whats happen to my hair

ive been doing some research and came accross somethin called scalp micro pigmentation basically a tattoo? Ive been youtubing it and it looks fantastic

somethinf I might co sider to

although its mainly for someone whos completly bald but I only wanna fill in my temples im sure I can find a haircut design I could make to make it blend in lol

 

what do you think?

[london81]

Hey Red,

 

Well I'm looking for dates around Mid to end of Jan or beginning of Feb. So do u have any ideas how many HT per day the doctor performs?

What about PRP? When I contacted the clinic, they mentioned PRP, how is that process? any pain? any side effects? I read online about it but there's no proven studies that it actually help but even if there's %10 chance that it actually helps and no side effects then I'll do it.

 

 

When I was in contact with the clinic via email this year I was looking for dates from them around the 12th of Feb. They offered me dates in March but due to work I could not make it. I eventually booked for 17th of April. Thats the kind of timeline I think your looking at, please keep in mind your first day there will be for a consulatation, shaving of the head and drawing the hairline. Then you'll have your surgery day or days and final wash day so at a minimum you'll need to be there for 3 days. I arrived on a tuesday night, consultation Wednesday, surgery Thur & Fri, wash day Saturday and I flew home that afternoon. So i was there for a total of 4 nights and got 5000 grafts.

 

 

There is no evidence that PRP actually has any benefits after a HT. Some doctors believe it may have others don't. It's based on opinion but there's no evidence it actually works. I know Dr Erdogan does around 2500 grafts per person. I've no idea how many he does a day. I emailed a couple of weeks back and the clinic responded with 6 free days for July so only a 4 week wait which wasn't bad. I think the waiting list is longer for bigger 2 day cases.

[Redchilli007]

Hi thanks for that, I would love a transplant but I think ill wait anyways see how it goes ,

im gona research into seeing someone anyways as I wanna find out whats happen to my hair

ive been doing some research and came accross somethin called scalp micro pigmentation basically a tattoo? Ive been youtubing it and it looks fantastic

somethinf I might co sider to

although its mainly for someone whos completly bald but I only wanna fill in my temples im sure I can find a haircut design I could make to make it blend in lol

 

what do you think?

 

I just had a look at your photos matts and I think it could be mpb. I know your Gp has said other wise but with your hair tyed back you are left with that tuft of hair at the front and the temples are very far gone and its not a natural mature v shaped hairline. I don't think you need work done soon as you still have hair to cover things up but it doesn't mean baldness wont start in other areas years down the road.

 

Scalp micro pigmentation can look good if its done correctly but its not for me. You would have to shave your hair to a 1 0r 2 at least for it to blend in. Like you said its an option for people who have lost all their hair. I dont think it will work with the hair lenght you have in the photos.

 

You have the choice of meds (something I dont like), a HT, shaving it or a hair system. Their are other sites which guys wear partial hair systems to cover the temples, so you have a mixture of real hair and a hair system. Thats another option but it takes a lot of maintenance.

 

From your photos I think with the hair long you look fine and don't look bald at all. I would say relax, enjoy your 20's but save money and be financially smart as you may need it down the line.

[Redchilli007]

Hey Red,

 

Well I'm looking for dates around Mid to end of Jan or beginning of Feb. So do u have any ideas how many HT per day the doctor performs?

What about PRP? When I contacted the clinic, they mentioned PRP, how is that process? any pain? any side effects? I read online about it but there's no proven studies that it actually help but even if there's %10 chance that it actually helps and no side effects then I'll do it.

 

 

 

 

There is no evidence that PRP actually has any benefits after a HT. Some doctors believe it may have others don't. It's based on opinion but there's no evidence it actually works. I know Dr Erdogan does around 2500 grafts per person. I've no idea how many he does a day. I emailed a couple of weeks back and the clinic responded with 6 free days for July so only a 4 week wait which wasn't bad. I think the waiting list is longer for bigger 2 day cases.

 

I've read on another site about a guy saying he had PRP and it thickened things up top for him and he would recommned it but that was just one guy talking on the web.

 

Dr Koray suggests it so right there your looking at a guy wtih 15 plus years who has seen hundreds of thousands of guys come through his clinic and seen the effects of a procedure with and without PRP included. Of course you can be cynical and say its too make money and who really knows for sure but he suggests and doesn't insist on it. Its good enough for me as I believe him to be fair and honest. Your paying 300euro for an injection, its costly so take time to weigh up the options and research it yourself. I came to my judgement pretty much on the thoughts mentioned above.

 

I got 2500 done on each day. A nurse mentioned the maximum they did in one day was 2800. I'm sure you could get 3000 in one day if you asked for it. It might require 60-90-mins more operation time but again its best to ask all these questions to Dr Koray and the Asmed mailing list.

[tim4d]

Hey Red,

 

thx for your detailed reply regarding the 3 stages of HT with Dr. Erdogan. Actually I emailed the clinic again and I got a reply yesterday. I asked for a 1 day procedure and what was his maximum grafts per day. I just wanna do it in 1 day and get it over with. Their reply was:

 

"Dr Koray propose you two options for your surgery: - a 3000 grafts FUE surgery for your frontal and mid scalp parts, in 1 operation day (7500 € + Services & Medications)

- a 4000 grafts FUE surgery for your frontal, mid scalp and vertex parts, in 2 operation days (10000 € + Services & Medications).

Regarding Finasteride: in case you choose the first option (3000 FUE surgery, vertex excluded) Dr Koray would strongly recommend you to use it, since it can help a lot the regrowth of your vertex part. Of course, this will be your personal decision."

 

That was part of their email. To be honest I don't want to take Finasteride for life and might go through with the side effects that many people mention & I will just continue to use Minoxidil 5% & try to use it twice a day since sometimes i skip it in the morning.

 

Regarding PRP, I guess I'll do it since there's a chance that it actually might help. But does the injection hurts or the anaesthetic hurts more? I don't mind the HT, I am only nervous about the anaesthetic & PRP injections. How many injections did you receive per day? how painful were they? similar to the anaesthetic u receive in your mouth when taking out a tooth at the dentist for example?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've read on another site about a guy saying he had PRP and it thickened things up top for him and he would recommned it but that was just one guy talking on the web.

 

Dr Koray suggests it so right there your looking at a guy wtih 15 plus years who has seen hundreds of thousands of guys come through his clinic and seen the effects of a procedure with and without PRP included. Of course you can be cynical and say its too make money and who really knows for sure but he suggests and doesn't insist on it. Its good enough for me as I believe him to be fair and honest. Your paying 300euro for an injection, its costly so take time to weigh up the options and research it yourself. I came to my judgement pretty much on the thoughts mentioned above.

 

I got 2500 done on each day. A nurse mentioned the maximum they did in one day was 2800. I'm sure you could get 3000 in one day if you asked for it. It might require 60-90-mins more operation time but again its best to ask all these questions to Dr Koray and the Asmed mailing list.

[Redchilli007]

@tim4d

 

 

As far as going for 3000 or 4000 grafts its your own personal choice, as is the Drs advise about taking fin. Only you can decide.

 

Personally I would want to get as many grafts in the first pass as possible hence my 5000 but it comes down to personal finances etc. This is for you to think about.

 

As for the PRP and anaesthetic injections well they hurt only a little but of course are unavoidable. You wont fell the PRP injection as you'll have had your anaesthetic to numb the area already.

 

The nurses are very careful and with the injections and you can ask them to slow down at anytime. I went through mine no problem, just sucked up the little pain until the injections were done but I have a high pain threshold and the nurses commented on how tough and what a good patient I was, their words not mine . During the operation there may by times during extraction or incision where you fell pain and then you will ask for more anaesthetic.

 

Of course its a lot more injections then you would get at the dentist but its no so bad as the staff are carefull.

 

I found thinking about all the things that come with a HT worse than actually going through with it. Its not an easy procedure and quite tiring but afterwards you will be thinking I worried to much about it and it was okay to have it done.

[tim4d]

Thx Red for the reply & for resting my mind a little hehe.

 

Regarding fin, i won't take it as I worry about the side effects & I need to take it for life which is troublesome. I would rather just try my luck with Minoxidil which has worked so far.

As for either 3000 or 4000 grafts, it's not about the finance actually, it's more about going through an HT 2 days in a row. And the clinic told me I need to make a decision to book either a day or 2 days. I guess I'll go for the 3000 grafts for my frontal & top part and see how that goes and if i need another HT in 3-5 years then I'll get another 3000 grafts for the crown and fill more areas on the top.

 

I have a question, u signed a paper before the HT, does anyone have a copy for this clinic or any other clinic's documentation? Just for reference. I don't think I'll read it carefully when i'm at the clinic.

 

 

 

 

@tim4d

 

 

As far as going for 3000 or 4000 grafts its your own personal choice, as is the Drs advise about taking fin. Only you can decide.

 

Personally I would want to get as many grafts in the first pass as possible hence my 5000 but it comes down to personal finances etc. This is for you to think about.

 

As for the PRP and anaesthetic injections well they hurt only a little but of course are unavoidable. You wont fell the PRP injection as you'll have had your anaesthetic to numb the area already.

 

The nurses are very careful and with the injections and you can ask them to slow down at anytime. I went through mine no problem, just sucked up the little pain until the injections were done but I have a high pain threshold and the nurses commented on how tough and what a good patient I was, their words not mine . During the operation there may by times during extraction or incision where you fell pain and then you will ask for more anaesthetic.

 

Of course its a lot more injections then you would get at the dentist but its no so bad as the staff are carefull.

 

I found thinking about all the things that come with a HT worse than actually going through with it. Its not an easy procedure and quite tiring but afterwards you will be thinking I worried to much about it and it was okay to have it done.

[Yaz89]

He wrote the same thing on another thread and i questioned him. His comments have been deleted so don't worry about. I told him I am Dr Koray's patient and its a lie. All the nurses are 100% professional when I had my ht in October. His claim is he used to work there. I don't believe him at all

[waittosee]

Well, I wasn't aware of Dr. Koray only does the incisions. I was under the impression that he actually does the extraction aswell since they kinda brag about it being only 1 step manual punch and all on their website. Dr. Maral doesn't even do the incisions but he is five times cheaper than Dr. Koray.

I wonder how Dr. Hakan Doganay performs the operation or at least what part of the procedure he is involved. Any first hand comments on Dr. Hakan?

[Redchilli007]

Well, I wasn't aware of Dr. Koray only does the incisions. I was under the impression that he actually does the extraction aswell since they kinda brag about it being only 1 step manual punch and all on their website. Dr. Maral doesn't even do the incisions but he is five times cheaper than Dr. Koray.

I wonder how Dr. Hakan Doganay performs the operation or at least what part of the procedure he is involved. Any first hand comments on Dr. Hakan?

 

 

Dr. Koray may only do incisions but drops in on all parts of the surgery to make sure its been done right. All the nurses are trained in his technique.

 

Dr. Maral is five times cheaper? How much does he charge per graft. Korays price is 2.5 euro per graft.

 

Hakan is more hands on I believe. A couple of guys that had some work done with him recently started threads, maybe its better to ask there.

[waittosee]

Dr. Maral is five times cheaper? How much does he charge per graft. Korays price is 2.5 euro per graft.

 

Dr. Maral quoted €1.380 for up to 3500 grafts . My bad he is six times cheaper.

[Redchilli007]

Dr. Maral quoted €1.380 for up to 3500 grafts . My bad he is six times cheaper.

 

 

Thats a very good price but I'm not convinced by Dr Maral

 

His results are hit and miss

 

This guy had 4000 grafts with Dr Maral and didn't look great, the vertex grafts didn't seem to survive at all.

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174447-4000-fue-grafts-dr-maral.html

[Redchilli007]

Dr. Maral quoted €1.380 for up to 3500 grafts . My bad he is six times cheaper.

 

 

Thats a very good price but I'm not convinced by Dr Maral

 

His results are hit and miss

 

This guy had 4000 grafts with Dr Maral and didn't look great, the vertex grafts didn't seem to survive at all.

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174447-4000-fue-grafts-dr-maral.html

[Denny]

I am glad you had a great experience with Dr. Koray. I had my procedure in January but unfortunately no massage was offered! ;-). Keep us posted and good growth!

[tim4d]

I am planning to have an HT with Dr. Erdogan around end of the year but now I'm worried about 1 thing which is shock-loss. When I emailed the clinic, they recommended that I start using Fin from now but I only want to use Minox which I have been using for years & i don't want to take Fin for it's side effects. So is having an HT without taking Fin is useless? Because I don't want to gain 3000-4000 grafts and lose a lot from shockloss. I read somewhere that the hair lost due to shock-loss is weak hair that will be lost soon or in a few years but I would rather keep them for a few years. And usually how many grafts are lost due to shock-loss? are we talking about 10s, 100s or more?

[ATP4Hair]

tim4d,

 

Shock hair loss is not caused by weak hair, but hair follicle that have been traumatized by the ischemic (decreased blood flow) time the grafts experience. When the hair follicle grafts are remove from the body, they immediately experience ischemia, and this leads to significant decreases in intracellular ATP. The hair follicle cells will undergo metabolic rearrangement to conserve ATP, and will also begin using salvage pathways to create ATP from other high energy phosphates, namely AMP. As the ischemia continues, adenosine is converted to inosine, then to hypoxanthine. Hypoxanthine in the presence of oxygen, results in the formation of reactive oxygen species (ROS) and nitric oxide. If the ischemia is short,, then cellular antioxidants (e.g., glutathione, Vit A&E) will stop the destructive effects of the ROS. If the ischemia continues, the ROS build-up will cause cellular damage leading to release of inflammatory mediators (e,g, TNF-a, IL-1, bradykinin) that cause neighboring cells to potentially enter into apoptosis. The inflammation also causes tissue pressures to rise due to the leakage of serum proteins from the microvasculature. This leads to decreases in oxygen tension around the ischemic tissue, leading to further losses in intracellular ATP.

 

Some cells of the hair follicle, namely the stem cells resident in the dermal papillae, inner root sheath, and near the epidermal/dermal border, are more resilient to ischemia. This, in part, explains why transplanted hair follicles that are poorly stored, and experience significant ATP loss, can regenerate a hair follicle and shaft. My suggestion is to ask your transplant physician how he/she deals with combating graft storage ischemia and post-operative ischemia in their practice.

[Shacked]

urmmm shock loss can occur when you implant follicles next to miniaturized follicles...Taking fin reduces the risk of this happening. Get on fin right away. The 'side effects' scare tactics is bullshit. Sides are VERY rare

[tim4d]

Thx for ur reply but I didn't mean shock loss is caused by weak hair. English isn't my mother tongue so maybe u misunderstood me. What I meant was, when shock-loss does occur, the weak hairs that was going to be lost naturally in a few months or in a few years, won't come back due to shock-loss because those hairs are weak.

My questions are:

1) taking Fin is a must after an HT so that those weak hairs that were lost will come back? So without Fin , an HT is useless?

2) Usually how many grafts are lost due to shock-loss? are we talking about in the 10's? 100's? more?

 

My concern is, I will be happy to gain 3000-4000 grafts but then I will lose many due to shock-loss. I won't take Fin because I already tried it and I didn't like the side effects. I will only keep using Minoxidil which has done a good job so far.

 

 

 

 

 

tim4d,

 

Shock hair loss is not caused by weak hair, but hair follicle that have been traumatized by the ischemic (decreased blood flow) time the grafts experience. When the hair follicle grafts are remove from the body, they immediately experience ischemia, and this leads to significant decreases in intracellular ATP. The hair follicle cells will undergo metabolic rearrangement to conserve ATP, and will also begin using salvage pathways to create ATP from other high energy phosphates, namely AMP. As the ischemia continues, adenosine is converted to inosine, then to hypoxanthine. Hypoxanthine in the presence of oxygen, results in the formation of reactive oxygen species (ROS) and nitric oxide. If the ischemia is short,, then cellular antioxidants (e.g., glutathione, Vit A&E) will stop the destructive effects of the ROS. If the ischemia continues, the ROS build-up will cause cellular damage leading to release of inflammatory mediators (e,g, TNF-a, IL-1, bradykinin) that cause neighboring cells to potentially enter into apoptosis. The inflammation also causes tissue pressures to rise due to the leakage of serum proteins from the microvasculature. This leads to decreases in oxygen tension around the ischemic tissue, leading to further losses in intracellular ATP.

 

Some cells of the hair follicle, namely the stem cells resident in the dermal papillae, inner root sheath, and near the epidermal/dermal border, are more resilient to ischemia. This, in part, explains why transplanted hair follicles that are poorly stored, and experience significant ATP loss, can regenerate a hair follicle and shaft. My suggestion is to ask your transplant physician how he/she deals with combating graft storage ischemia and post-operative ischemia in their practice.

[25AndBalding]

Hi guys, ive been following this forum for a while and ive noticed everyone keeps saying the hair that is already miniaturized and in its last leg wont come back after it is shocked. so what exactly does "miniaturized" and "last leg" means? my hair is thinning at the crown and the scalp is visible but its not very bad. so i would assume the hair is miniaturizing rather than miniaturized. so will the miniaturizing hair come back after they are shocked out?

[waittosee]

Short answer some will be back some won't.

[stinger99]

does dr erdogan do manual punch, if so, 3000 in one day sounds alot . no?