Questions About Hasson&Wong

[lyran]

Hi.

 

I am looking to get HT with H&W...

 

H&W recommended I use Propecia - and I've heard thousands of horror stories online so I figured I would go straight to the source and see what your thoughts are.... what do you guys think of this?

 

Also... post-op... how long will it take for my crown to look normal again? I'm a light-brown skinned guy... so I'm told redness should not be too bad.

 

But I want to know how long I should be out of public before seeing people again.

 

I'm still researching right now... but appreciate any input thank you!

[KO]

According to pretty much every empirical study, Propecia side effects are very uncommon. The small number of people who get them go online and scare people like you. If you look at the clinical trials, the PLACEBO group got similar sides to the propecia group. There is another post on this forum about a guy who hasn't even gotten sides, and is now worried about getting them, so he wants to get off the drug...seriously?

 

People think propecia is plutonium and will try to scare you, just ignore them. Feel free to message me if you have any q's.

 

My advice to you, just try it, and try to get through a few weeks, and then decide if you have sides.

[Calgacus]

I experienced slight pain and discomfort in my right testicle when I started finasteride. However, it only lasted around a week.

 

I havent had any other side effects since then.

[Mickey85]

The problems that can arise from Proprecia are quite serious and it even states in the warning that they can be permanent. Merck(the manufacturer) was forced to add the permanent part to it much to their dismay. I do believe there would have to be some cases of permanent side effects to warrant its inclusion on the warning label however rare. I certainly refuse to take it even though my surgeon's reps were pushing me to.

[ussoccerfan1990]

I thought I would put my two cents in real quick on this. I stopped taking propecia due to the fact that I could not get hard unless I really tried. The side effects are serious and are real. I even felt pain in my right testicle as well. But I am also a believer that maybe this happens to just a few of us. I think everyone needs to be aware that this pill will lower your sex drive on some level. Even if it is slight. I would reccommend taking the pills but if you notice any of these symptoms...STOP

[Shampoo]

Lyran....side effects are rare, but get discussed a lot by the small minority of patients that get any serious side effects. So it may appear that more people get side effects than actually do. It's human nature to think "if I get sides then so does everybody else" when that is just not in fact true.

 

Almost all drugs cause side effects in a percentage of patients. Luckily almost all finasteride studies show only a small minority of patients experience any serious side effects.

 

Plus some patients that complain about side effects give up too easy. If they would allow their body to adapt to the drug, the side effects could very well disappear. That is exactly what happened in my case.

 

Most top hair transplant surgeons recommend their patients take finasteride. Do we really think these top surgeons are reckless and would recommend something to their patients that was dangerous?

 

Each patient should decide for themselves if they tolerate it, because just because five guys get side effects, there may be 25 other guys that don't get any side effects. Deciding to not take propecia is not without consequences, it probably means one will grow more bald, and balder quicker, so if you are in the majority that do tolerate it well don't be scared off by the minority that don't tolerate it well.

[KO]

Like I said, people will try to scare you. But if you have hair you want to keep, you need to be taking finasteride. You won't know if you have side effects until you actually take the drug.

[gasto]

Be smart.

 

It causes gymnecostasia(breast enlargement), erectile disfunction(which may be permanent) and depression(many suicide victims have been reported as Propecia users).

 

The only reason why it is still being sold is because of the money it generates for the drug companies.

 

Some people do not report side-effects, they are blessed, but I am sceptic about the long term users (no study has been done for more than 5 years usage).

 

Shave your hair, or if you have the money, visit a hair surgeon for advice.

[KO]

^ Patently false.

 

Merck doesn't make much money off Propecia, it has been a commercial disappointment.

 

Furthermore, your information is WRONG. There is a 10 year study of finasteride, but you don't let inconvenient things like "facts" stop you.

 

The misinformation campaign continues. Empirical studies all show that only a small number of people actually get side effects, and these guys cry about it on the forums and scare away people who could really benefit from the drug.

 

You should try fin for at least a month, chances are you will not feel sides, if you do, get off!

[Mickey85]

KO i think we have had a discussion on proprecia beforr and i'm not too well informed on it but are there not cases of permanent side effects? I did read a study on another forum that stated Proprecia did alter hormone levels after long term use. Again i did not look into it too much, but the drug was not originally designed for hairloss abd i am aprehensive about it.

[TommyLucchese]

Be smart.

 

It causes depression(many suicide victims have been reported as Propecia users).

 

.

 

They have also been reported as food eaters, breathers of oxygen etc.

[Mickey85]

Tommy with all due respect there are medications that do induce suicidal tendencies. Not sayibg proprecia is one, but there could be a correlation.

[Atticus]

The problems that can arise from Proprecia are quite serious and it even states in the warning that they can be permanent. Merck(the manufacturer) was forced to add the permanent part to it much to their dismay. I do believe there would have to be some cases of permanent side effects to warrant its inclusion on the warning label however rare. I certainly refuse to take it even though my surgeon's reps were pushing me to.

 

Smart man!

[Mickey85]

Smart man!

 

Thanks Atticus

 

I don't want people to think I am anti-Proprecia or anything. But the side effects that CAN(not will) emanate from its continued usage are no laughing matter. The clinic I went to for surgery continually tried to persuade me to start using Proprecia(even though my loss is minimal and have not noticed any subsequent loss since) even though I was very vocal about being worried about the side effects. That to me is disingenuous on their behalf because they are not the ones taking the drug and they obviously know(or should know) of the potential side effects. I would rather loss my hair than to loss the ability to achieve and/or maintain an erection.

 

If Proprecia works for you with no side effects, that is absolutely awesome. But the apprehension surrounding it is warranted and is in no way a smear campaign against Merck or the FDA. It changes the DHT levels in your body which is quite significant. Again I'm not telling anyone not to use it, but do weigh up your priorities and know what might occur and if it is worth it to you. Just my opinion.

[KO]

- Mickey85

 

There have been reports of permanent side effects, however, that has not been the representative experience of the population that uses this drug. There is risk with any medication, however, we have about 20 years of clinical experience with this drug for BPH, and about 15 years for hair loss, and the incidence has been low.

 

I am not denying that side effects happen, they happen to some, and they are unfortunate, but he will not know this until he tries the drug. Scaring someone away from this is pointless. Taking any medication is a risk, so he should know the possibilities, but to suggest that side effects are the typical, or even common experience is misinformation.

 

I suppose everybody is afraid of different things. I personally am far more afraid of having my head cut open for surgery than I am about changing my hormones. So the fear is understandable, but you need to look at the data.

[Mickey85]

- Mickey85

 

There have been reports of permanent side effects, however, that has not been the representative experience of the population that uses this drug. There is risk with any medication, however, we have about 20 years of clinical experience with this drug for BPH, and about 15 years for hair loss, and the incidence has been low.

 

I am not denying that side effects happen, they happen to some, and they are unfortunate, but he will not know this until he tries the drug. Scaring someone away from this is pointless. Taking any medication is a risk, so he should know the possibilities, but to suggest that side effects are the typical, or even common experience is misinformation.

 

I suppose everybody is afraid of different things. I personally am far more afraid of having my head cut open for surgery than I am about changing my hormones. So the fear is understandable, but you need to look at the data.

 

 

KO i never said the sides were typical, only that they can happen. Im not anti proprecia at all but if someone is aprehensive about it i will chime in.

[KO]

I understand your position but try to think about it from the perspective of someone who is just learning about this stuff. Say a 22 year old guy suffering from aggressive loss. He comes on forum and asks about the drug. He gets a few responses of "I have no issue with fin, works great", and then he gets 5 responses of "propecia gave me ED", "propecia made me lose libido", "propecia made me grow boobs", "propecia is toxic $hit!". You don't think this poor guy is going to be confused as hell? He feels like he has to make a choice between his masculinity and his hair, when that is rarely true. We have all seen it happen on these forums.

 

It is correct to point out the side effects of propecia as you have done, but misinformation to suggest it is the common experience. I'm not saying that you were suggesting it is the typical experience, but many other posters do. That is all.

[Arrie]

So how about them questions about Hasson and Wong....?... Gooooooo Team!

[gasto]

^ Patently false.

 

Merck doesn't make much money off Propecia, it has been a commercial disappointment.

 

Furthermore, your information is WRONG. There is a 10 year study of finasteride, but you don't let inconvenient things like "facts" stop you.

 

 

 

Citation needed.

[Shampoo]

(here is one study)

 

Evaluation of efficacy and safety of finasteride 1 mg in 3177 Japanese men with androgenetic alopecia.

 

Sato A, Takeda A.

J Dermatol. 2012 Jan;

39(1):27-32. doi: 10.1111/j.1346-8138.2011.01378.x. Epub 2011 Oct 10.

 

Source

 

Tokyo Memorial Clinic Hirayama Department of Plastic and Aesthetic Surgery, School of Medicine, Kitasato University, Tokyo, Japan. (email address removed by moderator)

 

Abstract

 

Before now, there has been no study of finasteride use exceeding 1 year in Japanese men with androgenetic alopecia (AGA) except the study subsequently conducted from the development phase. Since the launch of finasteride, no study in a larger population had been reported. Ethnic variation of the onset age, progressive nature and degree of hair loss of androgenetic alopecia are known. The therapeutic effect of oral finasteride (Propecia) was examined on androgenetic alopecia of Japanese men. The efficacy and safety of finasteride (1 mg tablet) was evaluated in Japanese men with AGA in the long term. The study enrolled 3177 men given finasteride 1 mg/day from January 2006 to June 2009 at our clinic. Efficacy was evaluated in 2561 men by the modified global photographic assessment; the photographs were assessed using the standardized 7-point rating scale. Safety data were assessed by interviews and laboratory tests in all men enrolled in the study.

 

The overall effect of hair growth was seen in 2230 of 2561 men (87.1%), in whom hair greatly (11.1%), moderately (36.5%) and slightly (39.5%) increased. The response rate improved with increasing duration of treatment. Adverse reactions occurred in 0.7% (23/3177) of men; seven men discontinued treatment based on risk-benefit considerations.

 

No specific safety problems associated with long-term use were observed. This study represents data collected at a single institution. Many patients did not receive follow-up examination. In Japanese men with AGA, oral finasteride used in the long-term study maintained progressive hair regrowth without recognized side-effect.

 

© 2011 Japanese Dermatological Association.

 

Evaluation of efficacy and safety of finasteride ... [J Dermatol. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

Edited May 3, 2013 by TakingThePlunge

[Shampoo]

 

 

Dermatology. 2004;209(2):117-25.

An open, randomized, comparative study of oral finasteride and 5% topical minoxidil in male androgenetic alopecia.

 

Arca E, A?ikg?z G, Taştan HB, K?se O, Kurumlu Z.

Source

 

Department of Dermatology, G?lhane Military Medical Academy, School of Medicine, Etlik-Ankara, Turkey. earca@gata.edu.tr

 

Abstract

 

BACKGROUND AND AIM:

 

Androgenetic alopecia (AGA) is undoubtedly the most common form of hair loss in males. It is a condition which may cause cosmetic and psychosocial problems in androgen-dependent cases. In this open, randomized and comparative study we evaluated the efficacy of oral finasteride and 5% topical minoxidil treatment for 12 months in 65 male patients with mild to severe AGA.

METHODS:

 

We randomly assigned 40 (61.53%) patients to receive 1 mg/day oral finasteride for 12 months, and 25 (38.47%) patients applied 5% topical minoxidil solution twice daily for 12 months.

RESULTS:

 

There were no significant differences between the 2 groups considering age, age of onset of hair loss, family history and type of hair loss (p > 0.05). In the clinical evaluation at the endpoint of treatment, the clinical cure rates (i.e. increased intensity of hair) were 80% (32/40) for the oral finasteride group and 52% (13/25) for the 5% topical minoxidil group. Encountered side effects were all mild, and there was no need to stop the treatment.

 

In the group given oral finasteride, side effects were noted in 7 patients: 6 patients suffered from loss of libido, and 1 patient had an increase in other body hairs; irritation of the scalp was seen in 1 patient in the group administered 5% minoxidil. These adverse events disappeared as soon as the treatment was stopped.

 

The laboratory data on both drug groups did not show any statistically or clinically significant intragroup changes from baseline values to the endpoint (p > 0.05), except the level of serum total testosterone which was increased, and free testosterone and serum prostate-specific antigen in the finasteride group which were statistically decreased from baseline values to the endpoint (p < 0.05).

CONCLUSION:

 

In this comparative study of systemic finasteride and topical minoxidil, it was concluded that both drugs were effective and safe in the treatment of mild to severe AGA, although oral finasteride treatment was more effective (p < 0.05). Adverse events were not considered important either, and these side effects disappeared as soon as the treatment was stopped.

 

 

PMID:15316165[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

An open, randomized, comparative study of oral f... [Dermatology. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

[Garageland]

To the original OP,

 

With regards to your crown, post healing various for patient to patient and does depend greatly on skin tone, this scabs from the tiny incisions are encouraged to be washed off around 10-12 days post op, once these are gone you will not have any signs of surgery albeit perhaps some slight redness that would look like a mild sunburn, this is worse on pale skin patients.

 

As for propecia as you can see it generates a passionate response from the people who have had side effects. I personally and many thousands of patients have been taking effective to save their hair and improve the crown and would not think of stopping it.

[fortune11]

Propecia is heavy promoted by most of the doctors' consultants as it helps mask the true effect of a hair transplant -- obviously it is beneficial to the patient from a hair growth perspective - so from that angle it is a win-win. I do want to make a distinction here for those those who turn patients with modest hair loss away and tell them to go on propecia.

 

the only problem i have is what is the logic that dictates that one need to mess with the body's hormonal balance for a cosmetic purpose -- is it that important? i can understand why someone would take a strong drug like this for a serious life threatening condition but for hairloss, it seems a stretch when there are so many other safer alternatives available - yes, a strip excision is lot less trauma on the body compared to the gradually accumulating toxicity over years from usage of a drug like this.

 

there are those who would say for some people losing confidence from hair loss can make them depressional and suicidal and may be there is a case for that. but the true side effects of these drugs really are long term and may not be known until well into the next decade given how recent (on the evolutionary scale) the invention / use of propecia really is.

 

you may think people like myself that are scaring potential beneficiaries away from propecia are excessively vocal and passionate about it, but so are those who continue to promote it as a wonder drug and just regurgitate / copy and paste merck's (or any other company's) official lines.

 

I personally have been through 2 FUTs and am happy with the results and have decided to stay away from propecia forever.

[KO]

If you do not want to change your hormones, then don't take the drug. Don't make posts discouraging others from taking a drug that is widely regarded as safe and effective for this problem we face. You claimed that you are only referring to patients with "minor" hair loss, but then you make a broad, blanket statement about "messing with hormones"?

 

Just because someone has minor loss, does not mean he will always have minor loss. If you have FUT, and your hair falls out afterwards, you will look ridiculous and will be posting here as a repair patient.

Edited May 3, 2013 by KO

[fortune11]

If you do not want to change your hormones, then don't take the drug. Don't make posts discouraging others from taking a drug that is widely regarded as safe and effective for this problem we face. You claimed that you are only referring to patients with "minor" hair loss, but then you make a blanket statement about "messing with hormones"?

 

Just because someone has minor loss, does not mean he will always have minor loss. If you have FUT, and your hair falls out afterwards, you will look ridiculous and will be posting here as a repair patient.

 

 

See -- now this is arguing with "passion" and KO basically proves one of my points about some proponents of propecia who do not want to hear counter arguments (there was another nastier comment that he edited out subsequently).

 

so eager to refute he did not even bother to read the paragraph properly. when i referred to patients with moderate loss told by (some) consultants to go on propecia , it was in a positive light , as it relates to those consultants since they are turning away a potential customer and $$

 

but the fact remains - propecia makes the doctors and consultants job easy by masking the true results of a hair transplant. and i am saying this as an advocate of hair transplants who has nothing but the highest regard for the doctors that did my procedures.