Dr Armani - FUE Results - 2425 FUE 16 Months - Stingray

[Stingray]

Thanks for all the replies. They are much appreciated. To answer some of the questions:

 

1) I haven't asked for any money back at this stage. I will certainly talk to PATS about it.

 

2) I haven't had any contact with the clinic in a few months since they offered the "touch-up". For a while I was considering it and only in the last month or so have decided to decline it.

 

3) It was Dr Armani himself who made the incisions and supervised the procedure

 

4) The hairline is not actually that low. It would probably be considered a NW2. And is higher than the hairline that DR Armani wanted to place. Unsurprisingly he wanted me to go with 1000 more grafts and square off the hairline more.

 

There is no way that this could be considered a typical result. There is virtually no hairline at all on the left side and the right is thin at best. I have been quoted in the region of 1500 grafts by a number of DRs to repair it.

 

As requested here is a pic one day post op:

[hopefull]

Emperor makes some very good points...but i have to disagree on one thing, this is not how 2500 grafts should look like given the fact that they were used on the hairline and temples only.And thick native hair dont look thin in the picture

 

I ve seen results where doctors use that number of grafts on larger areas and to tell you the truth the result is about the same as this one on the same area.Doctors use the grafts strategically to create an illusion, because that what transplant are an illusion of density, compe them differently expose your self to winds, water and other lements of nature and the illusion starts to loose its effect.

 

Question that rises in thsi case is...

 

1.Poor growth?

 

2.Dense packing is overrated?

 

3.People were misleaded for years to think that they can have superthick hairlines if they went to the magic doctor when in fact only an illusion of density can be created and when different pictures appear the truth is revealed?

 

4.The hairloss dugs and transplants on people with minimal hairloss(relying on drugs something that transplant surgeons didnt have before) is the true revolution of the hair transplant industry and thats why the after pictures look so good

 

5. Manipulating pictures showing only the best angles

 

I think its a combination of all five...and to tell you the truth my best advice to stingray would be not to have another procedure over the same area.Keep what you got, you are not butchered or anything but adding more grafts to that area might be a waste.think of the future and think of your self.Propably the clinic would through in another thousand so that you dont complain online and other doctors would try to make it better ...but is it really that bad to have another procedure for the hairline and temples?Cant you just live with it and forget more transplants?

 

the way i see it you are not a failed case you were misleaded and misinformed from the start.

And for this there are many people to be blamed in these online communities

[lanthanos]

In my opinion Stingray you are a hero and inspiration. I think you've single handedly shut up a lot of questionable new posters asking for pics.

 

If the Armani clinic hasn't contacted you in months, I'm sure they will now. If you can, please let us know how they treat you.

[Stingray]

Originally posted by hopefull:

Emperor makes some very good points...but i have to disagree on one thing, this is not how 2500 grafts should look like given the fact that they were used on the hairline and temples only.And thick native hair dont look thin in the picture

 

I ve seen results where doctors use that number of grafts on larger areas and to tell you the truth the result is about the same as this one on the same area.Doctors use the grafts strategically to create an illusion, because that what transplant are an illusion of density, compe them differently expose your self to winds, water and other lements of nature and the illusion starts to loose its effect.

 

Question that rises in thsi case is...

 

1.Poor growth?

 

2.Dense packing is overrated?

 

3.People were misleaded for years to think that they can have superthick hairlines if they went to the magic doctor when in fact only an illusion of density can be created and when different pictures appear the truth is revealed?

 

4.The hairloss dugs and transplants on people with minimal hairloss(relying on drugs something that transplant surgeons didnt have before) is the true revolution of the hair transplant industry and thats why the after pictures look so good

 

5. Manipulating pictures showing only the best angles

 

I think its a combination of all five...and to tell you the truth my best advice to stingray would be not to have another procedure over the same area.Keep what you got, you are not butchered or anything but adding more grafts to that area might be a waste.think of the future and think of your self.Propably the clinic would through in another thousand so that you dont complain online and other doctors would try to make it better ...but is it really that bad to have another procedure for the hairline and temples?Cant you just live with it and forget more transplants?

 

the way i see it you are not a failed case you were misleaded and misinformed from the start.

And for this there are many people to be blamed in these online communities

 

Hopeful, I understand what you are saying but I don't think this is a case of me having too high expectations. I knew going into this (despite what Dr's and reps told me) that a HT is the illusion of hair and in no way was I expecting to have the thickness of my teenage hairline, or even the thickness of my existing hair. And in all probability I would be fine with where I am even if both sides were as strong as my right side. I could live with a thin hairline but the hairline on the left side is non existent. I am lucky that at the moment I have enough native hair that I can fashion it into an acceptable hairstyle but there are times when that area is exposed and it screams "Hair Transplant". I take great care with styling products, haircuts and sometime concealer to minimize how often this happens.

 

It is down to the forums that I went in with what I think were realistic expectations. I don't think it is unreasonable to have expected more than 50% growth. I knew that there was an element of risk by going with Armani but I was willing to take that risk as I was lured in by his ability to do 2425 FUE in one day.

 

Saying that I am glad that I didn't do more grafts as he suggested. I am also glad that the hairline is a little bit conservative. I am happy with the design and I think it is age appropriate (I am 32).

 

Although docs have quoted me a figure of 1500+ to recreate the hairline I am in fact leaning more towards a figure like 1000. I hope that this would be enough to essentially repair the left side and provide a little bit of thickening for the most sparse areas. My hope is that 1000 will at least allow it to look natural and to give up concealers for the next few years. Worrying about whether your dermmatch is going to come off on a woman's pillow sucks!!

 

This should hopefully leave me in the region of 6000 grafts (through FUE and Strip) to allow me further coverage as my hair-loss progresses. Hopefully the Fin and minox will maintain what I have or there will be some fantastic new development to allow me to maintain my hair but in the likely event that my hairloss does continue that should leave me with enough grafts to have a thin but natural looking head of hair even if I one day I will have to accept a bald crown.

 

Luckily at the moment my hair is holding up and at 32 I have a lot less loss than many.

 

What I do know is I am not letting Armani's drill touch my head again. I figure I have lost about 1200 grafts (mostly single hair) which is upsetting but not the end of the world. I still have options.

 

On HLH there was the suggestion that Dr Umar uses a drill. If this is true I would urge caution.

[Stingray]

Originally posted by lanthanos:

In my opinion Stingray you are a hero and inspiration. I think you've single handedly shut up a lot of questionable new posters asking for pics.

 

If the Armani clinic hasn't contacted you in months, I'm sure they will now. If you can, please let us know how they treat you.

 

Thank you very much. Reading that really meant a lot to me.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Yes you escaped with only some bruises and will be ok.

Umar uses a drill now and so does Dr True if you look in open topics their rep orangehair wont answer my question about pics.

Believe it or not Stingray your actually a hero to more guys then you think.

I know two guys that very much want to post their pics but are scared for different reasons.

Their results are similar to yours except alot more wasted grafts.

[Stingray]

Originally posted by PLEASE GROW PLEASE:

Yes you escaped with only some bruises and will be ok.

Umar uses a drill now and so does Dr True if you look in open topics their rep orangehair wont answer my question about pics.

Believe it or not Stingray your actually a hero to more guys then you think.

I know two guys that very much want to post their pics but are scared for different reasons.

Their results are similar to yours except alot more wasted grafts.

 

Thank you.

 

I have also been in touch with a couple other Armani patients who have similar feelings to me about their results.

 

I am definitely not an isolated case.

[latinlotus]

Originally posted by hopefull:

Emperor makes some very good points...but i have to disagree on one thing, this is not how 2500 grafts should look like given the fact that they were used on the hairline and temples only.And thick native hair dont look thin in the picture

 

I ve seen results where doctors use that number of grafts on larger areas and to tell you the truth the result is about the same as this one on the same area.Doctors use the grafts strategically to create an illusion, because that what transplant are an illusion of density, compe them differently expose your self to winds, water and other lements of nature and the illusion starts to loose its effect.

 

Question that rises in thsi case is...

 

1.Poor growth?

 

2.Dense packing is overrated?

 

3.People were misleaded for years to think that they can have superthick hairlines if they went to the magic doctor when in fact only an illusion of density can be created and when different pictures appear the truth is revealed?

 

4.The hairloss dugs and transplants on people with minimal hairloss(relying on drugs something that transplant surgeons didnt have before) is the true revolution of the hair transplant industry and thats why the after pictures look so good

 

5. Manipulating pictures showing only the best angles

 

I think its a combination of all five...and to tell you the truth my best advice to stingray would be not to have another procedure over the same area.Keep what you got, you are not butchered or anything but adding more grafts to that area might be a waste.think of the future and think of your self.Propably the clinic would through in another thousand so that you dont complain online and other doctors would try to make it better ...but is it really that bad to have another procedure for the hairline and temples?Cant you just live with it and forget more transplants?

 

the way i see it you are not a failed case you were misleaded and misinformed from the start.

And for this there are many people to be blamed in these online communities

 

Hopefull:

I highly disagree with your comment. This is clear case of failed HT with low yield. I don't think Stingray was misled. He even said himself that he was very informed going into the HT. If there is one area where he was misled it is where Dr. Armani claims that he never got a case with a yield of less than 80%.

Stingray: I support your search of a good doctor to correct this, and hopefully you will get the result you want.

[hopefull]

Originally posted by latinlotus:

 

Hopefull:

I highly disagree with your comment. This is clear case of failed HT with low yield. I don't think Stingray was misled. He even said himself that he was very informed going into the HT. If there is one area where he was misled it is where Dr. Armani claims that he never got a case with a yield of less than 80%.

Stingray: I support your search of a good doctor to correct this, and hopefully you will get the result you want.

 

I dont think we really diasgree disagree because i included the fact that i see poor growth.On the rest of my points i am a bit bored of saying the same things again and again so lets leave it at that...but i have to insist LL that he was misleaded because of his choise of doctor.

 

Stingray i agree there is low yield i just dont agree in going in for more on the hairline...but its not my decision and if you feel you have a good plan and then go ahead, its not for me to say.

 

thank you for coming out and sharing bro...usually these things get sorted out with us knowing anything...thanx a million you are an asset here

[TheEmperor]

I AM NOT a fan of armani, just of setting realitic expectations and letting people know what to expect. Som points:

 

1) The pictures are bad. Lets be honest, they are low resolution, are washed out in lighting, and its hard to see how many hairs are actually leaving the scalp. People accused the armani cheerleaders of posting low quality "good" pictures. These are low quality "bad" pictures. Lets be fair.

 

2) The pictures where he is NOT holding his hair up look lke he has good coverage, on par with (say) H&W. My major point is that you could take a H&W patient with an excellent result, pull back the temple hair, not in a way that its plastered against the scalp, but such that it is flowing upward with less visual impact. And furthermore, put this area under the glare of a light, make the photo a lower resolution, and the area will look washed out and effectively bald.

 

3) I will agree that there may have been grafts wasted in the effort to dense pack this area. It may have been planted at 75 grafts per cm/2, yet only (say) 40 grafts cm/2 grew. (My doctor cautioned againt dense packing in the upper range and said this could risk non growth.) However, the resulting density is not that different from what we see in typical "successful" procedures. He probably wouldnt have gotten much more density in a single pass anyway. Armani rolls the dice in dense packing, sometimes gets lucky and everything grows, other times not so much. I think a touch up (second pass) will make the area look much fuller. I dont think it was necessaily FUE that wasted the grafts, just dense packing and Armani's philosophy.

 

So all is not lost! Its not likely the OP would have gotten more density in the first pass anyway! (although strip MAY have increased his odds) Frankly if armani is going to pay for another 1000 FUE into that area and there is no existing strip scar, he should strongly consider going for pass 2, give nthe rest of his hair looks full. I can honestly tell you that strip is probably the only way to reliably move large ammouts of hair. . . but. . You do not want a strip scar if at all possible if your degree of loss is low.

 

Of course, there really may be terible growth in the temples, but I would need some quality photos for evidence to see what is really going on.

 

If I were the OP, I would go to a doc that does both FUE and strip, get an evaluation on the growth and what he believes to be the cause of dissatisfaction, and proceeed from there. If poor FUE extraction caused the problems, then another FUE doc might be a good choice. Be optimistic! You are very close to being finished. . dont make any hasty decision like risking a strip scar when you may only need 1000 more fue grafts.

[hopefull]

Emperor is again right in my opinion but there surely are many wasted grafts despite the bad pictures

 

another procedure?3500-4000 grafts just for tha hairline and temples?

 

Man we have lost the sense of reality...

[TheEmperor]

Originally posted by hopefull:

Emperor is again right in my opinion but there surely are many wasted grafts despite the bad pictures

 

another procedure?3500-4000 grafts just for tha hairline and temples?

 

Man we have lost the sense of reality...

 

Looking at the post-op pic that he posted, I would say that the total area planted by armani is about HALF the area planted by my surgeon with 4500 grafts. My doctor did not go as wide or low in the hairline/temples, but also planted the middle and half of the top.

 

The amount of hair that is needed is really deceptive and the pics (even in-person consults)make it hard for any one to have realistic expectations about what to expect.

 

We have seen the "wall of hair" armani patients who were maybe a NW 1 then got 2000 grafts blasted in the hairline, and WOW look how thick it is.

 

This guys loss was greater, a significant area WAS planted. The temples and broadening the hairline that much really does represent a large area. Just a rough guess is that the total area planted was at 40-50 cm/2. I know the OP does not think it was a great area planted and the hairline is not low, but it really is quiet low compared to more conservaive hairlines. The intersection points in the temple are quite low and represent alot of real estate.

 

The thing is with single hair grafts, (and thats the only way to look natural in the hairline), you really cant get much density planted at 40-50 cm/2. I think the reality is that MOST times a patient will need a second pass. In the case where the patient is not already bald (has higher expectations) I can understand his disappointment in getting 40 g cm/2 of single hairs in the hairline. Thats not going to cut it.

 

Unless the OP has a very small head, the growth is not that far from what i have seen from strip clinics. I would need close up before/after photos of the temple to really evaluate how much didnt grow.

[thanatopsis_awry]

He did have a doctor who does strip & FUE (Bisanga) evaluate his procedure and he stated ~30-40% yield. It's obvious beyond reasonable suspicion that Armani is a 100% shit clinic and aside from his "ethics", which have always sucked, his pathetic results are directly because he is performing FUE and like virtually every other doctor in the universe he can't handle the procedure on a level anywhere approximating the quality of strip.

[youngsuccess]

Yeah, I don't know...

 

We've all seen Rahal patients who've had similar types of procedures with far thicker-looking results. The "illusion" of density is more acceptable behind the hairline; you need a stronger front. Decent density does not mean that you expose a ton of scalp simply because you want to push your hair back.

[dannyskywalker]

Stingray!!!!!!!!

 

it is nice to see you on here man, aswell, I am so so sorry to see your case went poorly.

 

It is fixable though man, so don't mug yourself to hard.

 

aswell, you are smart in avoiding the Armani Drill, lol, cant beleive that a drill/punch device was the big invention that he hides from everyone.

 

I'm voting to get money back or a least half a touch up doesnt cut it, especially when there is more to loose than gain... speaking donor wise

[hopefull]

Originally posted by thanatopsis_awry:

He did have a doctor who does strip & FUE (Bisanga) evaluate his procedure and he stated ~30-40% yield.

 

 

Really???!!!

[Stingray]

Originally posted by hopefull:

Originally posted by thanatopsis_awry:

He did have a doctor who does strip & FUE (Bisanga) evaluate his procedure and he stated ~30-40% yield.

 

 

Really???!!!

 

Yes, as I stated earlier Dr Bisanga thought I had somewhere between 30-40% growth. I even said that I thought this was a low estimate but not too far off the mark.

 

As for pics - they were taken with my macbook so , yes, they are not of the greatest quality. I am in the middle of a move and my digital camera is somewhere buried in a box. However, I took hi-res pics back in December (13 Months post op) which I sent to Pats. I have attached them here. Emperor, I would be interested to hear if you still think that my expectations were too high and what density you estimate the left side to be.

 

LEFT SIDE

 

 

RIGHT SIDE

 

[hopefull]

Originally posted by Stingray:

 

 

Yes, as I stated earlier Dr Bisanga thought I had somewhere between 30-40% growth. I even said that I thought this was a low estimate but not too far off the mark.

 

As for pics - they were taken with my macbook so , yes, they are not of the greatest quality. I am in the middle of a move and my digital camera is somewhere buried in a box. However, I took hi-res pics back in December (13 Months post op) which I sent to Pats. I have attached them here. Emperor, I would be interested to hear if you still think that my expectations were too high and what density you estimate the left side to b

 

You are absolutely rigt to be furious...so many wasted grafts!!!

I think is safe to say that the pictures are very revealing, this is worst than it looked in the other pictures...also you native hair look superthick compared to the transplanted area so the theory that some angles and pictures make thick hair look very thin is definetely not the case.

 

Is that ridging and pitting that i see in the first picture????!!!

 

Emperor i think you will have to revaluate some of your points...i definetely did this is worst than it looked...30-40% growth means 700-1000 grafts only grew out of the 2500 transplanted...

 

Its not only that 1500 didnt grow, or that these grafts are lost forever,or that he lost propably thousands of dollars is the fact that now he has unneccesary recipient and donor scarring from the procedure.Even if he gets his money back thats nothing compared to what stingray has suffered

 

Stingray i am sorry i made general comments in your thread when your case is very specific...i should have waited to see more pictures

 

On another note your native hair looks amazing man i am sure this can be fixed

[hairthere]

stingray, your results look very similar to my first strip surgery with joseph karamikian. very sparse hairline, only i had minigrafts making the roots look like black dots. your case should be very easy to fix. and you were very wise to decline armani's offer of more surgery. best of luck to you.

[lanthanos]

Stingray,

 

What does the Armani clinic estimate your percent growth was based on the pictures you provided them?

[thanatopsis_awry]

Man....the thing that strikes me most with the latest set of pics (which are of perfect quality) is how erratic and inconsistent the yield was on the hairline.

 

I agree w/ Hopefull that it even looks like some ridging and pitting in the first pic -- which, fortunately is nonexistent to the naked eye when you style it normally.

 

I'll just say again that you really are an exemplary patient-advocate to take the time to systematically document your case in total honesty, in spite of the route you could have taken. And without a doubt you will soon get a head of hair that would make any man jealous!

 

Amazing to think, though, of those less fortunate....who didn't resist Armani peddling a larger session, a bolder hairline....who had more aggressive MPB....were of a younger age....weaker donor...even worse yield....etc....

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Hey thanks for posting these pics .

It just goes to show what most of us we were saying is a fact.

Anyone else that that comes to Armani defense is blind or had a bad procedure themselves and somehow thinks this is a typical result.

There are plenty of docs that dense pack with tremendous growth .

Hell Armani use to achieve high yield dense packing with strip .

This is nothing more then a failed fue.

 

.

[TheEmperor]

Yeah, I'm sorry, it looks worse than I thought.

 

Still think realistic expectations are in order for HT in general, but the caliber of your hair seems thick, so you should have more than that.

 

The overhead and front pics look as substantial as my procedure, but my hair is not as thick as yours.

 

I guess the problem now is recipient scarring. You should have enough donr to fix this, but future yield may be impacted.

 

Didn't pats originally post your pictures early on as someone who was happy? I havent been following the forums closely in the past year, but I seem to remember that at one point pats posted your pics (maybe in first couple of months.)

[CalvinKlein]

Stingray I like your conservative approach with the hairline. I really appreciate you taking your time out and sharing your experience with us rather than just walking away and ignoring reality. I for one was considering HT between FUE AND FUSS but I think I will lean more towards fuss now. The yielding in fue is hit and miss ragrdless of what any clinic shows you how many photos. It's a scientific fact.

 

Concerning your hairtransplant...I know you're angry and almost all the guys here hate armanis with passion, but the fact is he also has performed mind blowing results. I say this because if I were you I WOULD NOT just walk away. I would take them up on their offer and get the "touch-up". I am SURE they will make it their personal business for you to get outstanding results so you can come back here and say "look guys , all is dandy! they satisfied my concerns". I wouldn't walk away at my expense if I weren't satisfied with the results!

 

However, I wouldn't add more than 1,000. Any surgeon you go to would love to add a lot of density to your poor growth areas so they can mak themselves look like heros and say "we fixed armanis loss". Donor is precious, you are not THAT bad nor butchered, please don't throw in another 1,500 to your hairline!. 1,000 should suffice nicely!

 

BTW are you on any treatments or were you on any? Your donor from the side looks pretty good.

[hopefull]

Originally posted by CalvinKlein:

Stingray I like your conservative approach with the hairline. I really appreciate you taking your time out and sharing your experience with us rather than just walking away and ignoring reality. I for one was considering HT between FUE AND FUSS but I think I will lean more towards fuss now. The yielding in fue is hit and miss ragrdless of what any clinic shows you how many photos. It's a scientific fact.

 

Concerning your hairtransplant...I know you're angry and almost all the guys here hate armanis with passion, but the fact is he also has performed mind blowing results. I say this because if I were you I WOULD NOT just walk away. I would take them up on their offer and get the "touch-up". I am SURE they will make it their personal business for you to get outstanding results so you can come back here and say "look guys , all is dandy! they satisfied my concerns". I wouldn't walk away at my expense if I weren't satisfied with the results!

 

However, I wouldn't add more than 1,000. Any surgeon you go to would love to add a lot of density to your poor growth areas so they can mak themselves look like heros and say "we fixed armanis loss". Donor is precious, you are not THAT bad nor butchered, please don't throw in another 1,500 to your hairline!. 1,000 should suffice nicely!

 

BTW are you on any treatments or were you on any? Your donor from the side looks pretty good.

 

What kind of BS is this?"conservative approach" LMAO...the guy just had 2500 grafts on the hairline and temples!!!

 

"dont have 1500 have 1000" LMAO.Yeah as if thats his main problem.

 

To "go back"???the guy had 30%-40% growth!!!

 

"The guys here hate Armani with passion" lol...i bet u 10000 dollars that what we hate more than anything is shills