Norwood 6- age 50.. Worth it?

[Birdness]

Hi.. I am a youthful 50 yo male with a Norwood 6 pattern. The question is for those in my situation who have proceeded with surgery: was it worth it and are you happy and satisfied with the results? Would you do it again? My expectations are realistic, looking to improve what I think ages me the most. Want it to look natural, though. My hair is fine and I have average donor density and good laxity. Pics wold be appreciated. Shaving my head is not an option. Opinions would be appreciated as I am trying to make a decision. Thanks

[Dwight]

Hi.. I am a youthful 50 yo male with a Norwood 6 pattern. The question is for those in my situation who have proceeded with surgery: was it worth it and are you happy and satisfied with the results? Would you do it again? My expectations are realistic, looking to improve what I think ages me the most. Want it to look natural, though. My hair is fine and I have average donor density and good laxity. Pics wold be appreciated. Shaving my head is not an option. Opinions would be appreciated as I am trying to make a decision. Thanks

 

In my opinion absolutely. I was a class 6/7 for over 30 years. When I started balding I was tormented all-the-time by "friends" (your forehead goes all the way back). At about the age of 30 (my age) my son got leukemia. His hair fell out and was bald. Seeing him suffer, at a deep level, transformed my attitude. What was most important in life? Not hair.

 

For the next 30 years I accepted my slick scalp. My wife loved me and my children loved me.

 

I got divorced. Hair loss was not a part of my personality structure I.e. I did not cringe from hair loss. However I began thinking of "doing something" with my balding state.

 

Last June (2012) I got 2100 grafts. It is a psychedelic experience for me to view "the person in the mirror" with hair. When my son saw the result he said "Wow". I do a double take walking by a store window and see hair on my head.

 

2100 grafts is nothing. Yet I part my hair on the side so there is a great illusion of a framed face with hair. With photos I look like a full haired dude. With "hair filler" it looks marvelous (I think).

 

There are many nay Sayers on this site. They view extensive hair loss as a lost cause. What's the point they ask? That is one of the reasons that I do not post pictures. For me it is great (after starring at a hairless for 30 years). There are physicians that will not do great loss. In the minds of some folk if one cannot achieve the look of Brad Pitt than it is futile.

 

I disagree. It is so much fun to have a framed face. Great for business photographs. Originally the surgeon said I had 4000 grafts. But I've learned I got 2100.

 

This year I will travel and get another 3000 grafts (2500 scalp hair plus 500 beard hair). That will leave me about 2000 scalp hairs.

 

I do not earn a high income. If you have dough, ordinary scalp density and reasonable beard/chest chair you can have nearly a complete restoration.

 

The surgeon who will do my second surgery states "hair restoration is an illusion". I agree.

 

So my opinion is do it if you can afford it. You'll be hammered by a few individuals who differ in their views of class 6/7 restoration. But you'll be amazed. It is so much fun to comb hair. I forgot what it is like.

 

Lastly read, read and read. Ask questions.

 

There are some wonderful folks here.

 

Take care

[wylie]

Interesting commentary Dwight, would love to hear more about your restoration.

 

Birdness, you might find the following thread helpful.

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/159098-dr-umar-7500-grafts-fue-norwood-7-a.html

[Spanker]

I don't understand the "illusion" word. You put hair on your head. It is there. It is less dense than natural hair.

 

I agree that on older gentlemen a small amount of hair takes you further.

[Dwight]

I don't understand the "illusion" word. You put hair on your head. It is there. It is less dense than natural hair.

 

I agree that on older gentlemen a small amount of hair takes you further.

 

Respectfully, I do not see how you cannot view hair restoration as illusory.

 

The surgeon places higher density at the hairline to create the illusion of greater density.

 

The surgeon places higher numbered follicular units strategically for the appearance of greater density.

 

I part my hair left to right (which I had no need for 30 years). This creates the illusion of greater density.

 

We put thickeners and conditioners to create the illusion of greater density.

 

African Americans have less dense hair. Because of the curly nature of their hair there is the illusion of greater density. My friend had a hair transplant. Such great results that I was envious. His father was black and mother white. I hate designations of black or white. It never occurred to me that he was black until I tried to analyze the fabulous result.

 

With respect

[Mallyboy]

Dwight,

 

I agree that African-American hair gives better density with the least amount of grafts. I'm an African-American male that just recently had a HT a week ago. Illusion would be a better word if plugs or fake grafts were implanted but it is yr real hair. Illusion to me sounds like something imaginary.

[Spanker]

Respectfully, I do not see how you cannot view hair restoration as illusory.

 

The surgeon places higher density at the hairline to create the illusion of greater density.

 

The surgeon places higher numbered follicular units strategically for the appearance of greater density.

 

I part my hair left to right (which I had no need for 30 years). This creates the illusion of greater density.

 

We put thickeners and conditioners to create the illusion of greater density.

 

African Americans have less dense hair. Because of the curly nature of their hair there is the illusion of greater density. My friend had a hair transplant. Such great results that I was envious. His father was black and mother white. I hate designations of black or white. It never occurred to me that he was black until I tried to analyze the fabulous result.

 

With respect

 

A simple comb over is an illusion. The transplanted hair is actually there. It is just less dense than a natural full head of hair. I have just never understood the use of the word. My HT is definitely there and not a illusion, just implanted in less that natural density.

[nativeremdies]

How about the "illusion of density".

[Birdness]

BTW Dwight, do you find that it looks natural??Any other Norwood 6 that got HT?? Would be great to get your opinions.

Thanks

[Dwight]

BTW Dwight, do you find that it looks natural??Any other Norwood 6 that got HT?? Would be great to get your opinions.

Thanks

 

It looks very natural.

 

Because I have turned into a bit of a maniac vis a vis hair transplantation, I carefully view hairlines of others with similar balding patterns. It looks natural compared to them. Then my neurosis kicks in. "Maybe all the folks had transplants, so the comparison is not fair" I think to myself.

 

Hence I study classic movie "bald people". Looks the same.

 

My son knows I had a transplant. My two daughters do not (another story). They squeal with delight, "Dad you've grown hair!!". My youngest fusses with my hair, patting it into place.

 

Amazing.

 

I want to forewarn you the period after the transplant is a bit difficult. There are scabs and redness. The redness did not go away quickly. I don't give much of a shit what people think of me. But trying to do business with someone that is distracted by the redness is disconcerting.

 

I'd be happy to answer any other questions about my experience.

 

With your class 6, if it is stabilized you should be able to get a result superior to mine (superior in the sense of greater coverage as you start with more hair).

 

I am kind of excited for you. Ill tell you I was terrified because I've read of so many horror stories. But ecstatic now. I'm still a homily dude, but homily with twigs on my head.

 

I talked with a class 7 who had his hair done. Combs it straight back. Absolutely amazing.

 

Take care

[Davis91]

Dwight,

 

Photos?

[Thomas2012]

Birdness, I would definetely go for it based on the following: 1. Pretty good donor in reference to the available grafts total. This is critical in understanding what you have to work with. 2. Hair diameter(something that seems to get ignored alot in physicians postings), even though you might receive 3500 grafts, if you have fine hair, it won't seem as dense as others achieve. Understand this. Lastly, have realistic expectations on what you can expect to achieve. D

 

Dwight, that was a great initial post on how happy you were with just 2k plus grafts on how much it just framed your face. Spanker I don't know if you were just being rude or argumentative, but the illustion of density is talked about a lot by doctors and patients on this forum. The hair placement of 1-3 grafts, spacing, and where they are placed on your head really is an artistic talent surgeons use to create as much density as possible. If you get 2000 grafts bundled together in the frontal most part of your hairline and not much behind, yes they are there, but nothing gained. By the number of follicles per graft and how they are spaced on the scalp, the density, or "illusion" of density is much better if done properly. i.e. choose a talented surgeon recommended on this form. Some are more conservative than others, but interview them and decide. I think a transplant is well worth it. I am almost 50. Knowledge is power. Gain as much as possible and go for it. Best of luck.

[OtherSyde]

Respectfully, I do not see how you cannot view hair restoration as illusory.

 

The surgeon places higher density at the hairline to create the illusion of greater density.

 

The surgeon places higher numbered follicular units strategically for the appearance of greater density.

 

I part my hair left to right (which I had no need for 30 years). This creates the illusion of greater density.

 

We put thickeners and conditioners to create the illusion of greater density.

 

With respect

 

"Higher density at the hairline" = higher density at the hairline.

 

Higher numbered follicles = more hairs, thus more density. Less density of follicles, but higher density of hair.

 

I don't do much of anything to my transplanted hair. I don't comb it over, I don't use thickeners, I only wash it with your typical Axe body wash. It just looks the way it is. Maybe it's an illusion of some sorts, but it's a permanent, no-maintenance illusion, at least for me. I had gone off on a tangent and written a whole diatribe here, but I think I'm going to start a new thread about what is considered an illusion, since it's actually a fairly broad, thought-provoking, and relevant topic of our times.

 

[EDIT] - Here it is: "What is "Illusion?"

 

But short answer to the OP's question, YES; even if high density can't be achieved, creating a nice frontal hairline to frame your face and getting mild density towards the rear (just for hair products to stick to, if nothing else) would make a HUGE difference; 50 isn't even that old anymore - you've still got a good bit of life to live! I would live it to its fullest extent! Don't listen to the naysayers, they're just butt-hurt because they're not satisfied with anything less than 25-year-old celebrities' Hollywood hair.

Edited February 12, 2013 by OtherSyde

[scar5]

I find this a most interesting thread.

 

1) We have a guy who would not be recommended for HT surgery by a lot of people because he would not get, for want of a better expression, "360 degrees" coverage, let alone density

 

2) Dwight piped in and seems perfectly happy with a 'frame' to his face. i.e. this means a bald top/crown. Furthermore, he states that the 'illusion' thing is a bit of a mystery - seconded by Spanker.

 

I love Dwight's delight at seeing himself in a new way, and I know that feeling. What I don't understand, is how he, and so, so many people, can accept the compromise that you can't have it all. I am one of the few who think, if you have a bald patch, it is a failure. Kinda, if the boat has a hole , don't set sail. But I have been told it is wrong to think like that. It certainly makes life harder.

 

However, as for the illusion. It is fundamental to Hair transplants and the way they work or don't work. It is just the color and texture bouncing off the hair once it achieves a certain length. too short and it is shattered. Natural/Native/Virgin hair, whatever you call it, unaffected by DHT, does not behave this way. What you see is what you get. Of course, we now have the option of doing transplants without the illusion - low density flat ones, but that's another story. As for illusion, if you want to get that buzz Dwight talks of you had better know how it works;

 

 

Think a scale 0 = see shiny scalp, 5 = see hair, solid but textured, 3D (These figures on the two right columns)

 

-AND-

 

Natural/Native Hair not affected by DHT. vs Transplanted hair on shiney bald

 

Think length, Call it L

 

These figures are arbitrary of course, but they show that it is not linear - the ratio of length to color.texture for HT hair, to anything approaching the degree to which it is linear for native unaffected hair

 

L (cm) Natural Hair Transplanted Hair

1 ----------1-------------- 0

2 --------- 2-------------- 0

3 ----------3-------------- 1

4 ----------4 --------------1

5 ----------5-------------- 4*

 

 

* when, in a matter of days, you suddenly are 'Holy HT! - I have hair'

 

And then it can be easy to wish it thicker so you cut it shorter, hoping it will thicken up like natural hair, and it don't!!

 

I think Jotronic has written some very important stuff about this in his 'sweet length' posts. Really good stuff.

 

I think people like Spanker don't know simply because they have such brilliant hair behind their transplanted zones. If the Propecia keeps working, they may never have to find out either!! Lucky for them

 

As for doing it on a NW6 and 7, I would possibly consider something like ProHair clinic do now, a 35graft/cm low-density FUE plus Milena SMP combo, but that might not be to the taste of many. But that will not be the volume based illusion that gave Dwight that psychedelic buzz he so aptly described

Edited February 12, 2013 by scar5

[Dwight]

Once I took Saran Wrap and had my son outline the hairless area.

 

I took this area and calculated the number of grafts required to achieve minimal "full" density around 40 grafts per cm squared,

 

I cannot remember the exact figures but there was no way that there would be sufficient donor hair to realize the optimum desired coverage. It was under this context that the surgeon stated "Hair restoration is an illusion".

 

In every area of life there are trade offs. I want to drive a Lexus I settle for a Corolla. I want to own a 4000 square foot house I settle for 1500. I wanted to run a four minute mile I could only a five minute mile. I had a 30 inch vertical jump now I am lucky if I can do 12 inches,

 

Folks that decry less that "perfection" with hair transplantation as a failure are avoiding the eagles eye view. Dichotomous thinking (I did not get full coverage therefore it is failure) sets one up for difficulty in all areas of life.

 

I wanted an ipad with 64 gigs and 4g. I settled for 16 gig and wifi.

 

Folks perfection is a myth.

[Thomas2012]

Dwight great post. The expectation of a full head of hair for a Norwood 6 or 7 it unrealistic, but with SMG, and other concealers a person can really feel confident and feel good about themselves. The biggest attribute of this forum is educating others who have not had a procedure and gaining knowledge to make a decision and have realistice expectations!

[Dwight]

Dwight great post. The expectation of a full head of hair for a Norwood 6 or 7 it unrealistic, but with SMG, and other concealers a person can really feel confident and feel good about themselves. The biggest attribute of this forum is educating others who have not had a procedure and gaining knowledge to make a decision and have realistice expectations!

 

Thank you for this.

 

Do you have personal experience with SMP?

 

I have very little gray hair (cleaning living I tell everyone who asks). My concern with SMP was if my hair turned white I'd have dark dots. Or worse the dots were blue.

 

I understand that Milena Lardi (see above) does "short term SMP". The work fades and needs a reapplication. So the colour can be adjusted.

 

However I cannot picture in my mind a fairly low density (let's use the 35 grafts/cm2 above) with SMP. How does it look? How is the "illusion" of greater density achieved?

 

I intend to do 3000 FUE's later this year. Incorporating SMP might affect the 3000 hair placement.

 

What do you think?

[evil]

Hi.. I am a youthful 50 yo male with a Norwood 6 pattern. The question is for those in my situation who have proceeded with surgery: was it worth it and are you happy and satisfied with the results? Would you do it again? My expectations are realistic, looking to improve what I think ages me the most. Want it to look natural, though. My hair is fine and I have average donor density and good laxity. Pics wold be appreciated. Shaving my head is not an option. Opinions would be appreciated as I am trying to make a decision. Thanks

 

Well I am a youthfull {in spirit and physically} 58 1/2 year old, I had an HT 8 years ago (1600, at least that is what I'm told I got by MHR) and now I'm scheduled for 3000 more grafts with a non-coalition surgeon in a week from now.

 

It was worth it to me when I was 50 and I already know that it will be worth it to me now and it will be worth it to me when I'm 60 because I plan on another 3000 grafts again.

 

Like you, I also think it's what "ages" me the most and in addition it's what depresses me the most too, generally 95% of the time I'm a very outgoing person. I'm on a mission to change "me" so that I can be the best version of me that I possibly can be. I have been working out, eating super healthy, I'm going to start riding my Trek bike as soon as I buy it starting this spring, I'm also going to buy an electric guitar (I already have an acoustic that I have been practicing with for a year) and having a transplant is just another layer of improvements that I'm "enjoying" doing at this stage in my life.

 

So, yeah, I can unequivocally say that it's been worth it to me and will be as I move forward with my next HT (: wish me luck!

[scar5]

In every area of life there are trade offs..... Dichotomous thinking (I did not get full coverage therefore it is failure) sets one up for difficulty in all areas of life.

Folks perfection is a myth.

 

I couldn't agree more. Deciding against a transplant, when you badly want one is not perfect. Deciding because the docs have told you, no matter how many grafts he/she can eek out of your scalp, you will always have an empty patch on your crown, showing your baldness (yes, natural though it is and all..) forcing you to either comb over, or let it "just hang", is less than perfect. But it might be the best you can do. In that case, I say skip the transplant or look for another doc.

 

For me, having a bald patch and a hair transplant is a failure plain and simple.

I accept that I have failed, but I gave it a good go.

[OtherSyde]

I agree too. I want perfection. I want a brand new Subaru WRX, the beefed-up STI model, the super rally-car racer version. But that's almost $50,000 with the good warranty and all the trimmings. So I suppose I will settle for a regular WRX Premium, and get a Typhoon cold-air intake and a custom tune for the engine computer that will put it up around 300hp or so; I can live with that for a daily-driver. But really, even if we were all very wealthy and could buy whatever we wanted without worrying about balancing our finances, even that wealth couldn't bring back dead hair follicles; this makes the HT scene a little different.

 

For instance, in my whole hairline thread I made a few weeks back, I was ultimately contented to settle with beefing up the thickness of my hairline and bringing the temples and widow's-peak-point forward a bit, in lieu of actually lowering my entire hairline a quarter-inch like I originally wanted to. We do what we can, and I say do all that you can do! I usually want to punch the mentally underdeveloped retards that use the phrase YOLO (You Only Live Once), because they're usually using it to justify doing something completely idiotic and dangerous like running out into traffic and trying to do a back-flip over an oncoming car while drunk, but I think the phrase more aptly applies to the act of living life to its fullest extent with planned-out decisions that produce long-lasting positive results.

 

There's minimal risk that much of anything is going to go wrong, given the skill of the Coalition doctors in general. Plus, already being a Norwood 5 or 6, the worst possible thing that could happen is that (if the grafts didn't take for some bizarre reason, which is due to a weird and rare genetic quirk and has only happened one or two times in the history of HT's, from what I've heard) you'd just end up still-bald with a scar that could be hidden under remaining hair; not really even a loss, per se, and astronomically unlikely as well. You stand to gain so much though, and I think it's high time to seize that opportunity.

 

I think you should treat yourself to it; six to seven months from now you can be looking in the mirror and seeing a guy with a head of hair, and perhaps a pretty full head of hair with a little Toppik! Attending social events would suddenly become a lot more fun.

[BrianR]

I agree too. I want perfection. I want a brand new Subaru WRX, the beefed-up STI model, the super rally-car racer version. But that's almost $50,000 with the good warranty and all the trimmings. So I suppose I will settle for a regular WRX Premium, and get a Typhoon cold-air intake and a custom tune for the engine computer that will put it up around 300hp or so; I can live with that for a daily-driver. But really, even if we were all very wealthy and could buy whatever we wanted without worrying about balancing our finances, even that wealth couldn't bring back dead hair follicles; this makes the HT scene a little different.

 

For instance, in my whole hairline thread I made a few weeks back, I was ultimately contented to settle with beefing up the thickness of my hairline and bringing the temples and widow's-peak-point forward a bit, in lieu of actually lowering my entire hairline a quarter-inch like I originally wanted to. We do what we can, and I say do all that you can do! I usually want to punch the mentally underdeveloped retards that use the phrase YOLO (You Only Live Once), because they're usually using it to justify doing something completely idiotic and dangerous like running out into traffic and trying to do a back-flip over an oncoming car while drunk, but I think the phrase more aptly applies to the act of living life to its fullest extent with planned-out decisions that produce long-lasting positive results.

 

There's minimal risk that much of anything is going to go wrong, given the skill of the Coalition doctors in general. Plus, already being a Norwood 5 or 6, the worst possible thing that could happen is that (if the grafts didn't take for some bizarre reason, which is due to a weird and rare genetic quirk and has only happened one or two times in the history of HT's, from what I've heard) you'd just end up still-bald with a scar that could be hidden under remaining hair; not really even a loss, per se, and astronomically unlikely as well. You stand to gain so much though, and I think it's high time to seize that opportunity.

 

I think you should treat yourself to it; six to seven months from now you can be looking in the mirror and seeing a guy with a head of hair, and perhaps a pretty full head of hair with a little Toppik! Attending social events would suddenly become a lot more fun.

 

 

LOL good attitude budy...., I was very depressed when I 1st got my tp, but now its coming in and im so happy...I have a funny shaped head, so to me even if my tp isn't 100% perfect, its still really looks good, Im 3 1/2 months and very happy.. Ill probably get 1 more. ...My profile pic is 2 weeks old, and I have a lot more hair now...To much negative on HRSN and I understand why...most people who are happy don't say anything...this site kinda scared me at 1st

[Thomas2012]

Some great posts. Dwight you had a question earlier if I had any experience with SMP. I have not, but thinking of it within the next year. I just had a 3 k procedure, but overall I have a lot of native hairs and minor thinning. I want to see the outcome on the over all density on this last one and fill in areas that may be a little light. My only challenge is that I am going about a third gray right now and would probably have to dye my hair.