Hairline... What would it take?

[OtherSyde]

So I'm seriously gearing up for HT #2. Check my blog link (in sig) for the details of HT #1. Here is the jist of it though: Roughly 1775 FUT grafts with Dr. Gabel in Oregon, to fill in the frontal scalp area...

 

2 Hours Post-Op:

 

 

2 Days Post-Op:

 

 

7 Months Post-Op:

 

 

Direct Comparison:

 

 

 

I'm wondering how many grafts it would take/how much it would cost to move my current hairline forward a bit. Not a full inch, that would take way too much, I know. More like, maybe, somewhere between about 1/2-inch to 3/4-inch max. Just so I don't have that super-high hairline, that Nicholas-Cage-mega-widow's-peak look.

 

I've barely experienced any loss at all since my first HT over 2 years ago, only a little bit in the crown. I would like to devote, maybe say, 250-300 grafts to the crown, just to get rid of that thinning look, though; I've had a few irritating comments on the little bald spot. Smart-asses like to pick at you for that stereotypical area, and I'd just prefer to not be in that target demographic. What the idiots can't see, they can't attack.

 

So I drew some lines today, surgeon-style, and this is what I'm looking at...

 

 

 

 

...And here's the little crown bald spot I want to fill in a bit...

 

 

As can be seen, I have a decent amount of hair at 30, so donor hair isn't too big of an issue right now. Regardless, I don't want to use a huge amount for this, but I also want this to be pretty much the last thing I do to my frontal hairline, which means at least medium density.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, although I know that FUT is supposed to be so amazingly much better, I feel like I got really lucky on my first spin as far as scars go and I'm kind of afraid to risk it again, which is why I'm really leaning towards FUE this time. Also, it sucked being called "Smiley" at work and having everyone telling me for months that I look like Jack Skellington from the back because of the huge, leering, smile-shaped scar...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I guess what I'm asking is, what should I aim for here in terms of number of grafts, and cost?

Edited January 29, 2013 by OtherSyde

[Cant decide]

I would not touch that crown. It is not bad at all and you would risk permanant shock loss. It looks fine and whomever is making fun of it seriously needs to get a life. As for your proposed hairline, personally, I think its far too low. You hairline now is perfect IMO and will suit you well as you age. Lowering it just a tad can make sense but what you drew I think is just way too low. That would take at least 3000 grafts. Joetronic once wrote that lowering a hairline by 1/2 cm takes approx. 1500 grafts.

 

Your hair looks great as is and at your age, I would wait it out longer until your pattern reveals itself more.

 

Goos luck.

[OtherSyde]

I would not touch that crown. It is not bad at all and you would risk permanant shock loss. It looks fine and whomever is making fun of it seriously needs to get a life. As for your proposed hairline, personally, I think its far too low. You hairline now is perfect IMO and will suit you well as you age. Lowering it just a tad can make sense but what you drew I think is just way too low. That would take at least 3000 grafts. Joetronic once wrote that lowering a hairline by 1/2 cm takes approx. 1500 grafts.

 

Your hair looks great as is and at your age, I would wait it out longer until your pattern reveals itself more.

 

Goos luck.

 

Hmm... Yeah I see now that the lines I drew are definitely lower than I intended... I just have such a big nerdy poindexter forehead, and my frontal hairline is so scraggly and inconsistent, especially when revealed in the light. I hate it.

 

Maybe just a little bit lower like you said, just a half-centimeter and mainly just fill in the temples to get rid of my "Nick Cage"? That would probably be better, and for such a small investment of 1300-1500 grafts, I could easily do FUE this time, huh?

 

I was thinking something like Iamx121's 1,800-graft frontal HT, but a little less, so it's more like 1,500 or so?

 

And this one by Dr. Bisanga is pretty amazing, although it used 1,900 grafts and I would cover a bit less area to keep it around 1,500, like I said.

Edited January 29, 2013 by OtherSyde

[Cant decide]

I think 1500 would be more than enough to lower your hairline by say 0.5 cm, hit the corners a bit and thicken up your hairline center. That would look great IMO but honestly, I think you look good as it but its gotta be what you want of course.

[1978matt]

I'm 50:50 on you doing a 2nd procedure at all, but if you did do, just leave the hairline where it is but beef it up a little.

 

Remember, it has to last 20, 30 years+! Keep those grafts in the bank for a rainy day.

Edited January 29, 2013 by 1978matt

[Spanker]

Man, I would not even consider lowering the hairline. Maybe beef up what you have and blunt the corners, but to lower your hair that much would be 3500 grafts. Think Corvettester.

 

As far as the crown. I kind of feel different that Can't Decide. I personally feel like it is ok to transplant in the crown as long as it is in very low densities. For instance, even if you get dealt a crappy card in the long run, and your donor would allow you to plant your crowon at 20 grafts per cm, I don't understand why it matters when you do it. Keep in mind that you may have to chase a doughnut ring ans a hairline.

[Jotronic]

Ah yes, another case of hair greed rears it's ugly head:)

 

Lowering the hairline as you outlined would take about 4000 grafts so not a good move. You have to have density especially when moving into hairline scalp for hairline lowering. If you take another 2000 or so, maybe a bit more, and simply fill in the hairline you have you will have a big improvement. In this image I did not lower your hairline even a tenth of a millimeter. It was a quick photoshop job but you get the idea.

 

The crown could take a bit of work but no more than a few hundred grafts. Don't expect a big difference as there is no big difference to make. Just a small one.

[OtherSyde]

Awesome pic Jo, looks good. Aside from filling in my Nick Cage temples, I would love to strengthen and ever-so-slightly lower the front widow's peak. This is because, if you look at the side views, you can see how incredibly thin and wispy it is, which allows people to clearly see the back-sweeping curvature of my head; I'd like for that to not be visible from the side profile, as it's an obvious sign of a non-gracefully-receded hairline.

 

But there is obviously a significant positive difference between the first and the second shots:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That would allow me to move from this:

 

 

 

 

To this (Jay Harrington from Better Off Ted):

 

 

 

Jay Harrington has got to be like, the poster child for lean white guys with high hairlines. I could definitely live with those nice, non-receded temples and that somewhat-high but handsome and distinguished hairline.

 

Also, for the record, I do like Nicholas Cage's crazy ridiculous acting and his weird charisma, I'm just not thrilled about sharing his hairline, which is a much-talked-about (in a bad way) issue in Hollywood, even for Mr. Cage

 

I know you're right that I should save the most possible donor hair for a rainy day, so I guess I'm willing to be somewhat frugal. I also want this to be the last bit of work I do on the frontal area. The rest must be saved for the rear/top.

 

So seeing what Dr. Bisanga did with 1,900 grafts in the link posted above (which actually seems to have covered a little more area than I'm even looking to cover), you think this could be done with 1,900, or maybe 2,000 grafts, tops? Could I pull it off with maybe 1,600-1,800 if I'm only shooting to lower the hairline by the aforementioned 1/10 of a cm? That's not a huge HT by any means, I don't think, leaving me plenty in the "bank."

[Spanker]

I moved pretty much from your pre op to your post op photoshop job with 2100 grafts. My hairline may be a cm lower but that was my natural hairline at 34.

[OtherSyde]

I moved pretty much from your pre op to your post op photoshop job with 2100 grafts. My hairline may be a cm lower but that was my natural hairline at 34.

 

How much did you actually lower your hairline, if any at all? Maybe 1/4 of a cm? I can see from your blog that it's slightly more forward, although not a lot; mostly just thickened and strengthened.

 

Hmm. 2100 grafts. I could probably do that with FUE without too much trouble, right? That is such a contested issue on these forums.

 

[EDIT] - Jesus H Christ. FUE is like, way more expensive than I thought. Saw a post from about a year ago saying $5 to $8 per graft? Is that still accurate? That's almost double the cost of FUT. For 2000 grafts that would be between $10,000 and $16,000. Seems like a lot for such a small HT. Guess I'll go with strip again. Ugh. This time I guess I'll just try to leave the hair on the back of my head super long so I can hide it as best I can.

Edited January 30, 2013 by OtherSyde

[Spanker]

How much did you actually lower your hairline, if any at all? Maybe 1/4 of a cm? I can see from your blog that it's slightly more forward, although not a lot; mostly just thickened and strengthened.

 

Hmm. 2100 grafts. I could probably do that with FUE without too much trouble, right? That is such a contested issue on these forums.

 

[EDIT] - Jesus H Christ. FUE is like, way more expensive than I thought. Saw a post from about a year ago saying $5 to $8 per graft? Is that still accurate? That's almost double the cost of FUT. For 2000 grafts that would be between $10,000 and $16,000. Seems like a lot for such a small HT. Guess I'll go with strip again. Ugh. This time I guess I'll just try to leave the hair on the back of my head super long so I can hide it as best I can.

 

 

I did not lower the hairline at all except for a tiny little widows peak in the front of the hairline that is about an inch wide.

 

I don't like throwing prices around, but most docs are at least 5 a graft even for FUT, at least in that area. SMG has the most reasonable FUE price that I know of from a top clinic but I don't know the graft price anymore.

[SADbutTRUE]

your hair looks great, i wouldnt do anything, try styling your hair different, longer in the front may help, are you on meds, as far as those guys busting your chops, i know guys like that and if it wasnt ur hair they will pick on something else, they are igornant, dont even bother worring about what they say.did you ask ur dr what his thoughts are about lowering ur hairline, good luck in ur quest for more hair, your hair looks great , you came a long way from where you started.

[Cant decide]

Jay Harrington has a high hairline?? I just dont see that. But I agree that his hair is great!!

[OtherSyde]

Jay Harrington has a high hairline?? I just dont see that. But I agree that his hair is great!!

 

Hmm... I guess "high" is a matter of perception, I suppose "mature" or "Distinguished" would be better descriptions.

 

This is sort of my outlook:

 

[OtherSyde]

your hair looks great, i wouldnt do anything, try styling your hair different, longer in the front may help, are you on meds, as far as those guys busting your chops, i know guys like that and if it wasnt ur hair they will pick on something else, they are igornant, dont even bother worring about what they say.did you ask ur dr what his thoughts are about lowering ur hairline, good luck in ur quest for more hair, your hair looks great , you came a long way from where you started.

 

Not so much dudes picking at it; I don't care about being attractive to dudes since I'm straight. It's really more women picking at it. Women today (and men as well), due to the sudden wide-spread availability of cosmetic surgery and and constant media exposure to pretty celebrities, as a default just expect a lot more in terms of looks. Everyone's expected to either A). Get born pretty, or B). Figure out how to make the cut, or C). Accept your status as a second-class citizen in social groups and bear the heckling. The bar is higher, and everyone in the younger generation likes to make sure everyone else knows it, and it's made clear to anyone who doesn't meet it that they are second-class in society. It's a vicious world, I guess, and it doesn't look like it's going to get any better anytime soon. Sometimes I think I would trade the technology and everything to live in a less judgmental era, like the 60's or something. I wouldn't able to fix the balding thing, but I wouldn't really be expected to fix it as much, since no one could fix it back then. I dunno.

 

But yeah, Jotronic has more or less convinced me not to try to lower it by any significant measurement, although I definitely want to thicken up the scraggly hairline and fill in my temples. That shouldn't be too much to ask, I don't think.

[Spanker]

Every single one of those guys, maybe with the exception of Ryan Reynolds would trade places with Jason Stathom in a heartbeat.

 

I think you have to consider a few things. My commanding officer would give us a safety briefing every Friday and tell us there was 2 miles of (a mans anatomy) for every one female, and if we didn't treat our wives well, some of it would find her. (I think it was a don't beat your wife speech, I don't know, but it was funny). The point I am making is that when on a military base, there are 25 women for every man and on the 1-10 scale, a 2 female gets to date a male that's an 8, strictly because of supply and demand. It sounds pretty shallow, but that is the way it is, at least where I was (infantry division). If and when you get back to the civilian world, things will even out much better.

 

Also, you are pushing 30 now, so the desires and needs of women are changing. Many women in their 30's and up are less worried about looks and more worried about other things, like do you work, are you kind, do you have 4 kids that you don't pay child support on, are you a grown man that is looking for a momma, etc. I think that you will find that looks will play less and less of a part assuming that you are running in circles where the women are your age.

[BrianR]

Ok funny and kinda true, KINDA....Of course if your Rich or a Rock Star your gonna get a hot chick. But I work at BlaBla and we get a lot of hot girls, I got really good game LOL and im old 55....But some girls wouldn't even look at me..UNTIL lately as my hair is coming in.....I have a ton of confidence, but looks are important (unless your rich or a rock star) This is just between us guys right? LOL

[BrianR]

BTW your hair looks amazing right now, so im pretty sure if your not really happy, you never will be....Just chill and enjoy life...you spent big bucks got great results now CELABRATE

[Spanker]

Ok funny and kinda true, KINDA....Of course if your Rich or a Rock Star your gonna get a hot chick. But I work at BlaBla and we get a lot of hot girls, I got really good game LOL and im old 55....But some girls wouldn't even look at me..UNTIL lately as my hair is coming in.....I have a ton of confidence, but looks are important (unless your rich or a rock star) This is just between us guys right? LOL

 

 

I see your point. Again, it depends what circles you are running in. True, 35 -45 year old club ladies may still focus on looks, but I have found that my age that the majority of actual relationship don't start in that environment. Also, HOT ladies, even at that age will often be a little more shallow and less likely to talk to guy that is balding, that said, there are a lot more balding guys then there are middle aged hot women so the hot ladies can be more choosy. 50 percent of men in their 50's are balding so you are on a much more even playing field.

 

We all go down hill eventually. Whether it is because of balding, wrinkle, big butt, gut, etc. There comes an age where you are no longer attractive in the magazine/movie star/model since, you are just attractive for your age. So now I am not fighting to be attractive, just to look good for my age. I peaked early in my mid 20's.

[rev3]

othersyde

 

totally agree with your outlook/percetion about hairlines

 

you are a realist, maybe because of your military background

 

the hairline you drew while perfect design for optimally framing your face would require way over 4000 grafts to get a good density 60+ per cm2

 

not that it couldn't be done but doing so would would probably mean sacrificing a thicker mid section and crown.

 

many guys now are getting hair transplants with this in mind: lowering the hairline to optimally frame the face and having lower densities to the crown

 

whatever you decide, no harm in getting opinions from other hair transplant docs about all possibilities even if you ultimately decide to go for beefing up your current hairline with your current doc

 

wish you the best and thanks for your service

[chrisdav]

I like Jotronic's hairline design and thicken up what you have.

 

You have come on leaps and bounds with previous surgery.

[OtherSyde]

othersyde

 

totally agree with your outlook/percetion about hairlines

 

you are a realist, maybe because of your military background

 

the hairline you drew while perfect design for optimally framing your face would require way over 4000 grafts to get a good density 60+ per cm2

 

not that it couldn't be done but doing so would would probably mean sacrificing a thicker mid section and crown.

 

many guys now are getting hair transplants with this in mind: lowering the hairline to optimally frame the face and having lower densities to the crown

 

whatever you decide, no harm in getting opinions from other hair transplant docs about all possibilities even if you ultimately decide to go for beefing up your current hairline with your current doc

 

wish you the best and thanks for your service

 

Yeah, I've been thinking about it hard, and I probably will just shoot for thickening my current hairline and maybe bringing it down like 1/8 of a cm (or something tiny), and filling in the temples to frame my face. I think that would about do it, then I could move on to other things in life.

 

I'll be poised to do this very soon, since I'm using my tax return to kill the final bit of my debt that I've been steadily slaying over the last two years since my first HT and some cosmetic body surgery for the wife after she lost 85lbs from gastric bypass surgery. We're both very happy that we're not going to end up embodying the old stereotpye of the unhappy, bitter fat-woman-bald-guy-couple with no sex life that just bickers all the time... That was one of our collective nightmares for middle-age.

[Spanker]

Yeah, I've been thinking about it hard, and I probably will just shoot for thickening my current hairline and maybe bringing it down like 1/8 of a cm (or something tiny), and filling in the temples to frame my face. I think that would about do it, then I could move on to other things in life.

 

I'll be poised to do this very soon, since I'm using my tax return to kill the final bit of my debt that I've been steadily slaying over the last two years since my first HT and some cosmetic body surgery for the wife after she lost 85lbs from gastric bypass surgery. We're both very happy that we're not going to end up embodying the old stereotpye of the unhappy, bitter fat-woman-bald-guy-couple with no sex life that just bickers all the time... That was one of our collective nightmares for middle-age.

 

Haha. Dear lord. Sounds like we have lived the same life (with the exception of getting a tax return, mine will be a check ). My wife had weight loss surgery too and it was a really great thing for her. She wasn't crazy fat but big enough. She had something called a gastric sleeve which is just the first stage of the by-pass without the duodenum switch.

 

Be careful about lowering it. I don't know if I mentioned it before but now that my hair is in, I wish I would have backed it up a little, I had a pretty low hairline and in places the implants didn't start until a cm behind the natural one. I wish mine was a cm higher in the center. Not because it doesn't look great now, but what it I the bottom falls out? Then I have to chase behind an aggressive hairline. I think blunting your recessed corners will make a big difference. I always wanted to be able to do at total side part, like from Mad Men. I can now. BTW, my wife is pretty hot now, not just to me but for 36 she gets a lot of looks, and I still have a pretty sparse sex life. But that sometimes comes after 2 kids, 11 years, and graduate school.

[jfables]

Don't do a thing. You should be concerned with saving all your donor for when the rest goes instead of seeking temporary perfection. Your hair looks good.

 

I agree competely with your observations on modern society, by the way.

[Thomas2012]

I wouldn't touch your hair right now. Your hair looks great. Your over-thinking it. Keep in mind that even though you are probably on meds, eating right etc, you will probably continue to thin out over time real gradually. You were receding at age thirty and Propecia and Rogaine really doesn't cover this area. Some previous posts are correct in saving the donor bank for this. Take the advice you are hearing. Best of luck.