Photo as Requested

[Jotronic]

TTDS,

 

I'm pleased to see StaggerLee repeating my "sweet spot" for length advise. I can't stress this enough and your stylist is right to a point. If it's too long it can look thinner but there are points along the way that make it looks thinner or thicker. Too short, like it is now, and your hair looks pretty thin. Let it get longer and it will look thicker but then add some more length and it can look thinner again. There are multiple variations of length that will give you a fuller or thinner appearance. Again, you have to experiment to find these sweet spots and that will take time.

 

Here is the original article I wrote almost a year and a half ago on the subject.

 

The Sweet Spot, Density, And What is Possible: Two Articles

 

I've had a lot of questions lately asking about what is possible with hair restoration and what kinds of hair styles can be had. I posted the article below on my blog quite a while ago but when I was chatting with Dr. Hasson about these questions and my own thoughts on the subject he decided to write his own article on the subject. I think it is worth the time to read it and it is very important for new patients to understand this when they are doing their research.

 

First is my article then Dr. Hasson's article:

 

Over the past several years of having my hair back I have learned a few things about how transplanted hair behaves over time. I'm not saying that it acts differently than non-transplanted hair or anything like that but more rather what the conditions are that allow it to look it's best.

 

If you've never had a hair transplant understand that it acts just like non-transplanted hair if the procedure was performed correctly. You cut it when it grows long, you style it every day, and you can even have highlights or dye applied to it (obviously from my photos)

 

What I have learned over time however is that if you have had a large area addressed with transplanted hair there is a sweet spot so to speak regarding the length and how it positively or negatively affects the appearance of your hair. By this I mean that certain lengths make it look fuller than others. I have found that for me a medium length will make the density seem the strongest. When I cut my hair really short the results seem to be a bit thinner and when it is really long (like shown in my HT# 3 gallery) it also can appear thinner. I am not really sure why this is the case but it has been confirmed over and over as I have had my hair at drastically different lengths.

 

So, the lesson here is, after your results have grown in you may want to experiment with different styles to find the one that best accentuates your appearance. If it looks too thin, let it grow a bit more or cut it a bit shorter. Good luck!

 

Jotronic

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dr. Hasson's article:

 

Hair Styles And Density, What Works?

 

Frequently patients ask us about styling options after the hair grows in from their hair transplant. Will they be able to style their hair in any fashion or will they be forced to style it in a particular way to maintain coverage and naturalness?

 

In general,if the transplanted hair is directed correctly the styling options will increase with higher transplant densities. At low density it is important to comb the hair in a* particular direction to maintain the hair shingling effect to bridge over bald scalp until the hairs reach the next FU at which point the hairs from that next FU will take over the coverage function. In addition lower densities will require longer length hair for coverage. However, there is a point where the hair can be too long thus making the hair appear to give less coverage. Each patient is different so it is up to the individual to find the best length to maximize coverage.

 

If an individual intends to part their hair through a transplanted area that was previously bald the transplanted hair density required rises dramatically. The shingling effect is largely negated here and what becomes impacted is the distance between transplanted FU's. Generally for a part to look natural transplanted densities of 50 FU per cm2 and up are necessary. Obviously the hair characteristics such as shaft diameter, color and curl will come into play as well.

 

As you can see the patients expectations with regard to styling should be an important part of the pre-op consultation. With sufficient donor availability patients with ever demanding expectations can be satisfied but it is important to identify those patients who are demanding in the absence of sufficient donor. These are the patients who should be counseled more extensively to avoid later disappointment.

 

Victor Hasson MD

[aaron1234]

I'd say my hair looks its thinnest right after a haircut. Of course, it looks nicely cropped and neat but the length is usually an inch underneath the "sweet spot". Joe is absolutely right - you don't know what you have unless you let it grow out. After experimenting with a few different styling options you might be surprised with what you can pull off.

[Tao]

Time To Do Something,

 

Sorry to hear about your journey. That has to be pretty rough, yet you seem to have enough self-esteem to deal with it - good! I totally agree with Jotronic and StaggerLee - for me, there certainly is a sweet spot regarding hair length. For me, short on the sides and longer on top (to a point) work really well for me. I cut my own hair with clippers so it's pretty easy for me to maintain that sweet spot without spending anything on haircuts.

 

And I totally disagree with the guy who was disparaging hair transplants. I was NW4/5 and I had two transplants with Dr. Konior and the effect was dramatic and life-changing. My hair looks pretty damn thick when I'm inside but on windy days or under really really bright light, it's clear i don't have the hair of a 20 year old. But given where I came from, I'm extremely satisfied. I'm not super well off financial-wise and my HTs cost about what I'd pay for a nice new car (which I could use right now!), but I don't regret my decision one bit.

 

I hope you can find your sweet spot and that things work out for you.

[the-bald-reality2012]

First, I'd like to express my appreciation of the civility of the responses to my first post. I thought some of you might flip out at my comments.

 

Someone asked here if I had ever seen a good hair transplant. The answer to that is this...

 

I have a good hair transplant. Good for what a hair transplant is. Just like all of you with "good" transplants, my hair won't stand up to bright light. And just like all of you with "good" transplants are commenting- the hair will look thin when cut too short and will also start to look thin if I let it grow too long. We are in the same boat. In short, we all have super-expensive glorified combovers.

 

The worst part is that in the long run we won't know how we're going to look. The donor region can thin. The hair can keep falling out. The vertex could keep getting bigger and heading lower. It's a cluster**** of unknowns.

 

I recently had scar revision surgery to correct the mess Epstein left on the back of my head several years ago after the fourth surgery. The scar ended up being about an inch(2.5 cm.) in parts and larger on the left than the right. It's was hypertrophic, rock hard, and uncomfortable.

 

I specifically parted ways with Epstein when he told me that the way to deal with the scar was to take more transplants via strip surgery and then put them on the scar. What would be the point of that? You would be putting hair into a scar in which you don't know how it will widen. And what if the scar hardened like it did before? How would the grafts respond? What if they didn't grow right? With another surgery I risked both widening the scar further and getting a poor cosmetic result.

 

So after extensive research...

 

I went to a plastic surgeon and did a scar revision. I followed that up with Botox and fractal laser. The surgery took hours (with my head face down - absolutely nothing like when you are sutured up after a transplant) and the pain I went through was beyond description. Waiting and praying the scar would not widen in the first two months was a nightmare of insecurity. Every movement of my head or even a slightly heavy bag carried left me thinking: "Is the scar getting bigger? Is the scar getting bigger?" It has just been a real pain in the ass. All my friends and colleagues were on vacation last Christmas and I was hiding out with the back of my head cut out, feeling a pain unlike any other I've ever experienced before.

 

The end result? I'm 3.5 months out, and I got the scar back under 1cm in most parts. The condition of the scar is great. It's soft and smooth. Now I can consider FUE to help cover the parts near my temple that need hair. I can also work on filling in the vertex/top of the scalp. I'm planning to do that this summer with about 700 grafts via FUE.

 

But it still hasn't changed the fundamental problem of the insecurity.

 

I keep telling myself that this will be the last surgery. That the nightmare will eventually be over. But listening to everyone on these boards, I can see that it will just keep going. It's never enough. It will never be enough. We're all like Golom in the Lord of the Rings. Treating our hair as if it is "My Precious" and completely ignoring the other parts of our image and our lives. Ask yourself how much time, effort, money and energy you've put into all of this. It doesn't take a genius to see the returns are extremely limited.

 

And this my point here. Those who are satisfied with their hair transplants are usually older men who have really low standards for their image. They just want some improvement because they feel so insecure about their hair. How I guy who is 50-something, overweight, and wrinkled can be so desperate for a few weeds on his head is beyond me.

 

That wasn't me. When I started I was a young guy of 28. I was told Propecia would stop future loss (one of the biggest lies in the industry) and the transplants would fill in the rest. I showed a picture to that butcher at Bosley. The picture was of me at 21. I asked him if I would look like that after the surgery. He told me "more or less". He told a NW5 that he was going to have a full head of hair. What a flat-out liar. And I was so psychologically vulnerable I couldn't think straight. If I had known it would be like this, I would have just shaved it down.

 

That's my ultimate point to Time To Do Something. He needs to go back and read his threads again. The panic and false hope in his posts are heartbreaking. He said things like "Dr. Epstein is on my side. Dr. Epstein will stand by me." If the transplants don't grow, there is nothing anyone can do. More surgeries will only make it worse. After the first surgery, he should have been told not to go any further down the road. The scar would get worse and the returns would be almost nonexistent.

 

So Epstein was never on his side. None of these doctors are. They make millions of dollars by selling us a pipe dream. They make it seem like some specialized surgical-artistic skill they do, but the technicians (often chatting up a storm as they go) do most of the work and the doctor goes hangs out for a while. I wonder if open heart surgery works like that. The doctor just leaves the room and the interns do the whole surgery.

 

The simple truth...

 

When Epstein, Shapiro, Wong and all the others settle into their mansions at the end of the day, they don't give a rat's ass about our long-term image and financial well-being. They get paid and they do not refund money. And unlike regular doctors, they don''t even really need to worry about lawsuits or malpractice. You sign away all your rights before surgery. And even if you want to take action, shame and denial will keep you busy for the next 20 years. It's a win-win proposition for the butchers and 50% chance of success for the patient. Why would anyone take that risk?

 

Time To Do Something...

 

You are now 50 years old. It's time to let it go, man. You only have about 20-30 years left in your life. Think about that! You are going to die someday. You have to make the most of the time you have left.

 

Your hair? In the future all of your hair will thin out. Just like everyone else here. Don't go for tatooing. Don't do anything else. Just let your hair grow out to where it is comfortable and stop worrying about it.

 

The one thing you can do? Burn that rug you've been hiding under for so long. That rug is what led you from Epstein's butcher shop and on to Shapiro's chop shop. It made you hold onto a past that was gone. From the prison of the wig to the hell of this hair transplant website. You've been here 5 years suffering, posting on everything from erectile dysfunction to Latisse. It's a waste of your life to live like this at 50 years old. Move on, my friend.

 

Anyway, I've kind of run on and on here. Sorry about that. It just breaks my heart to see how sad we all are - locked into a life of hair transplants and false promises of new treatments in the future. They'll find the cure for AIDS before they find the cure for hair loss. How do I know? Because scientists really want to. In hair transplants there is much more money in the treatment than in the cure. Period. Point. Blank.

 

Even though my transplant experience has more or less worked out, I would still like to know what my life would have been like had I just shaved it down. I know Bruce Willis never has to live with that regret. I wish I didn't either.

[aaron1234]

When I started I was a young guy of 28. I was told Propecia would stop future loss (one of the biggest lies in the industry) and the transplants would fill in the rest. I showed a picture to that butcher at Bosley. The picture was of me at 21. I asked him if I would look like that after the surgery. He told me "more or less".

 

Yeah, 28 is when I started down this road as well. You were most certainly lied to by your Bosley surgeon. An ethical surgeon would have explained the limitations of transplanted hair.

 

When Epstein, Shapiro, Wong and all the others settle into their mansions at the end of the day, they don't give a rat's ass about our long-term image and financial well-being.

 

I completely understand the bitterness but this is where you go to far. It's too broad a brush. There are charlatans but there are also good decent ethical surgeons in this field. How do you know all of these doctors don't want the best for their patients? Even if for nothing less then the sake of their own reputation? I get paid to teach privately. While I wouldn't do it unless I was being paid I care deeply for all of my students. You've dealt with the charlatans in this industry so I totally sympathize with your sentiment. But there are also talented, decent, ethical, caring surgeons out there in this field - I can attest to that.

[StaggerLee123]

First, I'd like to express my appreciation of the civility of the responses to my first post. I thought some of you might flip out at my comments.

 

Someone asked here if I had ever seen a good hair transplant. The answer to that is this...

 

I have a good hair transplant. Good for what a hair transplant is. Just like all of you with "good" transplants, my hair won't stand up to bright light. And just like all of you with "good" transplants are commenting- the hair will look thin when cut too short and will also start to look thin if I let it grow too long. We are in the same boat. In short, we all have super-expensive glorified combovers.

 

The worst part is that in the long run we won't know how we're going to look. The donor region can thin. The hair can keep falling out. The vertex could keep getting bigger and heading lower. It's a cluster**** of unknowns.

 

I recently had scar revision surgery to correct the mess Epstein left on the back of my head several years ago after the fourth surgery. The scar ended up being about an inch(2.5 cm.) in parts and larger on the left than the right. It's was hypertrophic, rock hard, and uncomfortable.

 

I specifically parted ways with Epstein when he told me that the way to deal with the scar was to take more transplants via strip surgery and then put them on the scar. What would be the point of that? You would be putting hair into a scar in which you don't know how it will widen. And what if the scar hardened like it did before? How would the grafts respond? What if they didn't grow right? With another surgery I risked both widening the scar further and getting a poor cosmetic result.

 

So after extensive research...

 

I went to a plastic surgeon and did a scar revision. I followed that up with Botox and fractal laser. The surgery took hours (with my head face down - absolutely nothing like when you are sutured up after a transplant) and the pain I went through was beyond description. Waiting and praying the scar would not widen in the first two months was a nightmare of insecurity. Every movement of my head or even a slightly heavy bag carried left me thinking: "Is the scar getting bigger? Is the scar getting bigger?" It has just been a real pain in the ass. All my friends and colleagues were on vacation last Christmas and I was hiding out with the back of my head cut out, feeling a pain unlike any other I've ever experienced before.

 

The end result? I'm 3.5 months out, and I got the scar back under 1cm in most parts. The condition of the scar is great. It's soft and smooth. Now I can consider FUE to help cover the parts near my temple that need hair. I can also work on filling in the vertex/top of the scalp. I'm planning to do that this summer with about 700 grafts via FUE.

 

But it still hasn't changed the fundamental problem of the insecurity.

 

I keep telling myself that this will be the last surgery. That the nightmare will eventually be over. But listening to everyone on these boards, I can see that it will just keep going. It's never enough. It will never be enough. We're all like Golom in the Lord of the Rings. Treating our hair as if it is "My Precious" and completely ignoring the other parts of our image and our lives. Ask yourself how much time, effort, money and energy you've put into all of this. It doesn't take a genius to see the returns are extremely limited.

 

And this my point here. Those who are satisfied with their hair transplants are usually older men who have really low standards for their image. They just want some improvement because they feel so insecure about their hair. How I guy who is 50-something, overweight, and wrinkled can be so desperate for a few weeds on his head is beyond me.

 

That wasn't me. When I started I was a young guy of 28. I was told Propecia would stop future loss (one of the biggest lies in the industry) and the transplants would fill in the rest. I showed a picture to that butcher at Bosley. The picture was of me at 21. I asked him if I would look like that after the surgery. He told me "more or less". He told a NW5 that he was going to have a full head of hair. What a flat-out liar. And I was so psychologically vulnerable I couldn't think straight. If I had known it would be like this, I would have just shaved it down.

 

That's my ultimate point to Time To Do Something. He needs to go back and read his threads again. The panic and false hope in his posts are heartbreaking. He said things like "Dr. Epstein is on my side. Dr. Epstein will stand by me." If the transplants don't grow, there is nothing anyone can do. More surgeries will only make it worse. After the first surgery, he should have been told not to go any further down the road. The scar would get worse and the returns would be almost nonexistent.

 

So Epstein was never on his side. None of these doctors are. They make millions of dollars by selling us a pipe dream. They make it seem like some specialized surgical-artistic skill they do, but the technicians (often chatting up a storm as they go) do most of the work and the doctor goes hangs out for a while. I wonder if open heart surgery works like that. The doctor just leaves the room and the interns do the whole surgery.

 

The simple truth...

 

When Epstein, Shapiro, Wong and all the others settle into their mansions at the end of the day, they don't give a rat's ass about our long-term image and financial well-being. They get paid and they do not refund money. And unlike regular doctors, they don''t even really need to worry about lawsuits or malpractice. You sign away all your rights before surgery. And even if you want to take action, shame and denial will keep you busy for the next 20 years. It's a win-win proposition for the butchers and 50% chance of success for the patient. Why would anyone take that risk?

 

Time To Do Something...

 

You are now 50 years old. It's time to let it go, man. You only have about 20-30 years left in your life. Think about that! You are going to die someday. You have to make the most of the time you have left.

 

Your hair? In the future all of your hair will thin out. Just like everyone else here. Don't go for tatooing. Don't do anything else. Just let your hair grow out to where it is comfortable and stop worrying about it.

 

The one thing you can do? Burn that rug you've been hiding under for so long. That rug is what led you from Epstein's butcher shop and on to Shapiro's chop shop. It made you hold onto a past that was gone. From the prison of the wig to the hell of this hair transplant website. You've been here 5 years suffering, posting on everything from erectile dysfunction to Latisse. It's a waste of your life to live like this at 50 years old. Move on, my friend.

 

Anyway, I've kind of run on and on here. Sorry about that. It just breaks my heart to see how sad we all are - locked into a life of hair transplants and false promises of new treatments in the future. They'll find the cure for AIDS before they find the cure for hair loss. How do I know? Because scientists really want to. In hair transplants there is much more money in the treatment than in the cure. Period. Point. Blank.

 

Even though my transplant experience has more or less worked out, I would still like to know what my life would have been like had I just shaved it down. I know Bruce Willis never has to live with that regret. I wish I didn't either.

 

My friend you need a therapist.

[the-bald-reality2012]

First to StaggerLee123:

 

I need a therapist? Is that the extent of your insight from being a senior member here? I'm simply calling it how I see it. If you don't agree, then you don't have to.

 

To respond to aaron1234:

 

I too am a teacher. I work teaching standardized tests (SAT, GMAT, LSAT, etc.). I always tell students that they may not get the score they want. I cannot guarantee results. And I can't guarantee a 1600 on the SAT. But I can try my best to prepare for their exams and I do get consistent results. But I don't falsify my previous student's scores. If a student got a 200 point gain on the SAT, I don't fudge that and say it was a 400 point gain. I also don't just show the top scores, but give a realistic overview of all my previous students' scores.

 

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. I'm sure you can understand why I find the entire hair transplant industry to be deceptive. It's a lack of professionalism to touch up pictures, use controlled lighting, and apply concealers when showing patient results. It's fraudulent. And I believe that each and every hair transplant doctor does this to some extent. That is why I have such a low opinion of them all. They should all be honest and show the hair transplant under full sunlight (without concealer) so that patients know what they are getting into. 100% clear and straight up honesty when it comes to the results.

 

I understand what you are saying with respect to my comments on the other doctors. But go back and read the Time To Do Something thread from 2007. All of that respect and praise was being accorded to Epstein. The "let's keep cool and calm" approach because Epstein is a recommended doctor on this website. Dr. Epstein cares and he's there for Time To Do Something. He'll make sure things turn out okay. And now what? Now he's not on here anymore. I'm sure other doctors have gone the way of Epstein on this website before.

 

I'll say it till I'm blue in the face. At the end of the day the doctor can care all he wants. But it's not going to change the simple reality: there just isn't enough hair long term in most cases. Hair transplant doctors know this. They do not tell their patients straight up. If they told their patients this clearly, they would lose 80% of their business before the first sale. They are generally not forthright. They talk around the problem. They accentuate the positive and hold out new technologies as hope (the latest scam is PRP therapy). They never once tell you pointblank that there is very little they can do to relieve your suffering in the long term. They are getting rich at this game while their patients get poorer. Sorry. But that is just the truth.

 

Enough. I've got work to get to. We could argue about this forever.

 

But I'm not going to pull punches on these doctors just out of a sense of good manners. Time To Do Something tried that in '07 and '08 and look where it got him. For every one of him that comes forward, there are 20 that won't because of the guilt and shame.

 

People need to get real about what hair transplants are. I'm at least glad that this forum allows for open and honest discussion (psychiatric help comments notwithstanding).

[StaggerLee123]

First to StaggerLee123:

 

I need a therapist? Is that the extent of your insight from being a senior member here? I'm simply calling it how I see it. If you don't agree, then you don't have to. So go **** yourself with your comment.

 

To respond to aaron1234:

 

I too am a teacher. I work teaching standardized tests (SAT, GMAT, LSAT, etc.). I always tell students that they may not get the score they want. I cannot guarantee results. And I can't guarantee a 1600 on the SAT. But I can try my best to prepare for their exams and I do get consistent results. But I don't falsify my previous student's scores. If a student got a 200 point gain on the SAT, I don't fudge that and say it was a 400 point gain. I also don't just show the top scores, but give a realistic overview of all my previous students' scores.

 

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. I'm sure you can understand why I find the entire hair transplant industry to be deceptive. It's a lack of professionalism to touch up pictures, use controlled lighting, and apply concealers when showing patient results. It's fraudulent. And I believe that each and every hair transplant doctor does this to some extent. That is why I have such a low opinion of them all. They should all be honest and show the hair transplant under full sunlight (without concealer) so that patients know what they are getting into. 100% clear and straight up honesty when it comes to the results.

 

I understand what you are saying with respect to my comments on the other doctors. But go back and read the Time To Do Something thread from 2007. All of that respect and praise was being accorded to Epstein. The "let's keep cool and calm" approach because Epstein is a recommended doctor on this website. Dr. Epstein cares and he's there for Time To Do Something. He'll make sure things turn out okay. And now what? Now he's not on here anymore. I'm sure other doctors have gone the way of Epstein on this website before.

 

I'll say it till I'm blue in the face. At the end of the day the doctor can care all he wants. But it's not going to change the simple reality: there just isn't enough hair long term in most cases. Hair transplant doctors know this. They do not tell their patients straight up. If they told their patients this clearly, they would lose 80% of their business before the first sale. They are generally not forthright. They talk around the problem. They accentuate the positive and hold out new technologies as hope (the latest scam is PRP therapy). They never once tell you pointblank that there is very little they can do to relieve your suffering in the long term. They are getting rich at this game while their patients get poorer. Sorry. But that is just the truth.

 

Enough. I've got work to get to. We could argue about this forever.

 

But I'm not going to pull punches on these doctors just out of a sense of good manners. Time To Do Something tried that in '07 and '08 and look where it got him. For every one of him that comes forward, there are 20 that won't because of the guilt and shame.

 

People need to get real about what hair transplants are. I'm at least glad that this forum allows for open and honest discussion (psychiatric help comments notwithstanding).

 

You're not interested in having an insightful conversation about anything. The only thing you seem to be interested in is spewing your hate and jealousy. When I suggested you needed a therapist I was being wholeheartedly sincere. You sound unhinged and in a fragile state of mind.

 

Good luck.

[the-bald-reality2012]

Staggerlee123,

 

I went to your profile to check out your pictures. Of course, you had none up. Few people on these forums (myself included) want to subject themselves to the scrutiny. If hair transplants really worked, we'd all have our pictures up. There's a reason that we don't. It's because most of us are not satisfied.

 

I'm sorry, man. I truly am.

 

I read your profile and your hair loss story and it made me feel bad. You had the hair transplants done in the barbaric age of the 90's and suffered greatly. If things are bad now in the industry, I know that they were much worse back then. Plus you have two scars, which is even worse than the one I have had reduced to something manageable.

 

In your profile, you talk about how you were laughed at behind your back after your transplants. You talk about your limited donor supply and the bumps and irregular shape of your head you got from playing sports.

 

I understand that you come here for support and some hope. Solace in the grief of the mistake you made when you had your hair transplants done.

 

But in the end you are the poster boy for my previous posts against transplants. If anyone can understand the hair transplant nightmare, it should be you. If anyone can understand the physical, financial and emotional toil of all this, it is you. If you had not taken the plunge so long ago, you would not be on this forum for years posting messages, hoping for a miracle when none is available.

 

At your age, you should be the one attempting to dissuade newbies from undergoing this type of treatment. You are a mature man. You can give them the long-term perspective. There is life after shaving one's head. But it is a life neither you nor I will ever know.

 

Why would you not want to dissuade someone else from making the same mistake you did? Do you want others to suffer with you? I can't belive that is true.

 

You had such little work done. I've gone in much farther on transplants than you have. Trust me. The more of them you get, the more of them you want. It will never be satisfying. Again, it's that old issue of not enough hair long-term.

 

Perhaps you know about mental therapy. Perhaps you yourself sought it out.

 

I consider this my therapy right now. If just one person who hasn't had a transplant reads my posts and doesn't undergo this procedure, I will have accomplished my goal. And if I can help someone like Time To Do Something move on with his life, then that would be good, too.

 

I mean well on this forum. I honestly do. My words are not hate and hostility, but rather righteous indignation. We've all been through too much with this industry and we need to stop being so polite about calling them out for the less than satisfactory result we will all get long-term.

 

From one veteran to another, good luck to you. I wish you well in all your hair restoration goals.

[Tao]

the_bald_reality_2012,

 

I hear ya. I can understand where you're coming from and the frustration you feel. I met with a few charlatans and I still feel dirty for even having talked with them. And yes, this HT stuff can be a slippery slope where one is constantly chasing something that is ultimately elusive. And yes, I agree that self esteem and acceptance should come from within and not stem from the amount of hair one has or the clothes one wears or the car one drives, etc. But it's not quite as black and white as you make it out to be. My experience with Dr. Konior was excellent. He was straight up with me about expectations and what could and could not be achieved and he was in the room almost the entire time for both of my procedures. Do I have the hair of a 20 year old now? Nope. But did my HTs meet my expectations? Nope. They far exceeded them in my case. And I have posted my pics and my experience below. For me, I definitely made the right choice and wouldn't change anything. I'd be OK with being bald as I'm in great physical shape, have a lot of friends and know that in the big picture, hair is really nothing. But I did my homework, had my expectations in line with reality and pulled the trigger and it worked out for me with very little fuss at all. Maybe I'm just one of the few lucky ones, but I don't think so. I've seen too many good results.

 

That said, I've seen plenty of horror stories too and concede that if that had been my experience, then I'd probably be writing the same things you are. In any case, I think its good that all experiences - the good, the bad, and the ugly - are expressed here so people contemplating HTs get the full spectrum of this HT business. Then they can make up their own minds. So thanks for your input and thanks for being civil as well. Cheers.

[chrisdav]

Yeah hair looks great Tao.

[Bill - Seemiller]

The Bald Reality,

 

I appreciate some of what you're saying but don't entirely agree - just as I don't entirely agree entirely with others who share the opposite opinion. Perhaps you are simply taking on the exact opposite role and attempting to provide some balance to posters that regularly sing the praises of hair transplant surgery. The reality is however, that hair transplants are neither the "cure" that we all dream about nor a scam to avoid like the plague.

 

Hair transplantation is simply a case of supply and demand and making strategic use of the available supply. In most cases, supply simply doesn't meet demand and for the extremely bald (like I used to be), proceeding with surgery means settling for less than what we'd want. What can be achieved and expected depends on an individual's physiology and the skill and experience of the hair transplant surgeon/clinic.

 

Hair transplantation isn't for everyone. They're expensive, require time off from work, are associated with limitations and risks and balding men and women often need multiple procedures to meet their goals. There are also many out there dissatisfied with their results. These typically include people who were duped by clinics overpromising the kind of result they can achieve, victims of subpar hair transplant techniques, or had unrealistic expectations about the results. Of course, there are also those who received less than optimal growth or another phenomenon/condition which is rare but can occur during/after surgery.

 

However, for countless others (including me), most of which have documented their experiences and photos on this forum, hair transplant surgery has moderately or even significantly improved their lives. You are welcome to view my results and hundreds of others by searching this forum and or viewing our patient websites.

 

You are also encouraged to read the hub "Hair Transplant Surgery: Concerned about Long Term Effects" and view the discussion topic about it by clicking here.

 

At the end of the day, each individual is invited and encouraged to draw their own conclusion as to whether or not hair transplant surgery is right for them.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

"If just one person who hasn't had a transplant reads my posts and doesn't undergo this procedure, I will have accomplished my goal."

 

I find this statement very troublesome. Nobody here is trying to convince anyone to undergo hair transplant surgery, only to provide information and support and help them decide for themselves. People who have an agenda to "sell" hair transplant surgery are violating the very nature of this educational patient community. Thus, people who have an agenda to persuade people against it are also in violation of the spirit of this community.

 

As I said above, hair transplantation isn't for everybody and thus, trying to "sell" hair transplants to those who aren't candidates is highly damaging. Likewise, trying to persuade people against it while avoiding the facts is equally as damaging. Thus, like I would with anyone trying to oversell the benefits of a particular procedure or technique without acknowledging its limitations, I ask that you stick to the facts and leave your agenda to stop good candidates from having hair transplantation off of this forum.

 

For more information, read our terms of service.

 

Frankly, It would be far better if you shared how your own opinion of hair transplantation formed by sharing your own personal experiences.

 

To be fair to "Time to Do Something" however, if you intend to share your own experience, please do this by creating your own topic.

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Time to Do Something,

 

I do think that a new hairstyle will be highly becoming on you however, there's no doubt that your hair will still appear thinner. But you can make it appear thicker by growing out the transplanted part and hopefully it will continue to grow and thicken over the next several months.

 

I'm not a real believer in scalp micropigmentation at this point however, it certainly comes with some advantages for the right people. I think the most practical use for it is concealing a donor scar. It may also help aid the appearance of hair transplant density from afar, but I'm not so sure what it looks like up close and in-person. I'd be afraid it would be too obvious - especially for those who've used it to create the appearance of a buzz cut when they have absolutely no real hair in that area.

 

My hair does still appear thinner under direct sunlight however, it appears thick enough to provide an adequate illusion of density. Certain lighting will always be harsh and make your hair appear thinner even for those with no hair loss. And since hair transplant results typically only yield 50% (or less) density in a given area, harsh lighting an make it appear even thinner.

 

I hope thatwith a new and styled haircut and with more growth in the coming months that your results are more satisfactory to you.

 

Please keep us posted.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[StaggerLee123]

Staggerlee123,

 

I went to your profile to check out your pictures. Of course, you had none up. Few people on these forums (myself included) want to subject themselves to the scrutiny. If hair transplants really worked, we'd all have our pictures up. There's a reason that we don't. It's because most of us are not satisfied.

 

I'm sorry, man. I truly am.

 

I read your profile and your hair loss story and it made me feel bad. You had the hair transplants done in the barbaric age of the 90's and suffered greatly. If things are bad now in the industry, I know that they were much worse back then. Plus you have two scars, which is even worse than the one I have had reduced to something manageable.

 

In your profile, you talk about how you were laughed at behind your back after your transplants. You talk about your limited donor supply and the bumps and irregular shape of your head you got from playing sports.

 

I understand that you come here for support and some hope. Solace in the grief of the mistake you made when you had your hair transplants done.

 

But in the end you are the poster boy for my previous posts against transplants. If anyone can understand the hair transplant nightmare, it should be you. If anyone can understand the physical, financial and emotional toil of all this, it is you. If you had not taken the plunge so long ago, you would not be on this forum for years posting messages, hoping for a miracle when none is available.

 

At your age, you should be the one attempting to dissuade newbies from undergoing this type of treatment. You are a mature man. You can give them the long-term perspective. There is life after shaving one's head. But it is a life neither you nor I will ever know.

 

Why would you not want to dissuade someone else from making the same mistake you did? Do you want others to suffer with you? I can't belive that is true.

 

You had such little work done. I've gone in much farther on transplants than you have. Trust me. The more of them you get, the more of them you want. It will never be satisfying. Again, it's that old issue of not enough hair long-term.

 

Perhaps you know about mental therapy. Perhaps you yourself sought it out.

 

I consider this my therapy right now. If just one person who hasn't had a transplant reads my posts and doesn't undergo this procedure, I will have accomplished my goal. And if I can help someone like Time To Do Something move on with his life, then that would be good, too.

 

I mean well on this forum. I honestly do. My words are not hate and hostility, but rather righteous indignation. We've all been through too much with this industry and we need to stop being so polite about calling them out for the less than satisfactory result we will all get long-term.

 

From one veteran to another, good luck to you. I wish you well in all your hair restoration goals.

 

Lol if this is your attempt at an apology well then apology accepted. It really is unwarranted however because I learned long ago not to let people of your ilk affect me in any way.

 

You say you went to my profile and, of course, I didn't have any pictures up because I didn't want to subject myself to any scrutiny. Well that's typical of a poster such as yourself who is just all to eager to criticize in a smartass manner. I posted all of my pictures in my first post on this forum so I guess I did have the courage to seek feedback from this community after all and I am very glad that I did. You should really listen to how asinine you sound.

 

At the time of my first procedureI was quite self conscious over my shoddy work perfromed by Dr. Wentland. I did feel very uncomfortable for a few months but you know what? I got over it and moved on. I didn't allow myself to wallow in self pity and become a bitter person. Actually my first bad procedure was a blessing in disguise because it gave me the impetus to strike out on my own and start my own business that is still going strong to this day.

 

If I had a chance to choose between having the two relatively mediocre procedures and having none at all I would choose the procedures all day. Without any work I would probably be almost completely bald. The hair that I do have is by far better for me than being bald. Yeah I know I'm crazy, and after all I am 47 years old and have one foot in the grave according to you, why should I even bother? You hear that guys? If you are in your 40's just give up, you're going to be dead soon!!!! Lmao...

 

I guess the thing that annoyed me the most about your post was your attack on Dr. Shapiro and Dr. Wong. "As Shapiro and Wong settle into their mansions..." Those docs have helped literally thousands of men improve their lives and feel better about themselves. For you to attack them as uncaring, money grubing businessmen in the evil field of hair transplantation is just beyond the pale. And I think you owe them both a sincere apololgy. Now.

 

As your appointed "poster boy" for the cause against hair transplants all I can say is this: I would recommend a procedure with a top notch doctor in the field of hair transplantation to any adult of appropriate age who feels that their quality of life would be improved by having more hair. Can I be any clearer?

 

You conclude you post by saying: "My words are not hate and hostilty, but rather righteous indignation." You can use the euphemism "righteous indignation" all you want for your bitter rambling but it just doesn't ring true due to the tone and tenor of your posts. All 4 of them.

 

This is the last time I will respond to your nonsense here, after all it is "Time to do something's" post and it doesn't need to be hijacked by gloom and doom. If you want to pm me or start your own post as to why we are all fools and morons I would be more than happy to eviscerate you there.

[Time to do something]

Bill,

 

I agree with you a different hairstyle will be more flattering and probably give an appearance of more desnsity once the hairpiece is goine. Keep in mind, the reson you see the “style” you do is because I wear a hairpiece and it needs to be a bit longer on the sides because of that. With the hairpiece I’m wearing the longer sides look completely normal and it blends in very well. The bulk on the sides disappears with the hairpiece. As soon as I ditch the piece the sides will be trimed down. I’m now in the process of growing out the transplanted hair. I will still have a small hairpiece on the crown which will not only cover the crown which never had any transplants but should offer a little help for density in front of the crown where the transplanted hair is. I plan to brush my hair forward and flip it up in the front with whatever hair I have there. I still have five more months of potential growth then it can even mature after that.

Why is scalp micropigmentation something you aren’t a real believer in? Are you basing this on individuals you’ve seen who have undergone the procedure? Do you think it could help someone like me who has hair but wants to use it to lessen the contrast between the hair and scalp? I honestly believe this may be the only hope I have in being able to remove my hairpiece for good. However, I don’t want to jump into something I will regret later. If I do it I’d feel more comfortable having a coalition doctor like Dr. Rassman perform the procedure rather than a tattoo parlor type environment. I had my stylist color the transplanted hair Tuesday night so the grey is gone. I’ll try to take a pic of it this weekend and post it. I’ll take it inside under different lighting conditions so I’m sure there will appear to be a difference in density from the pic I posted last weekend.

[the-bald-reality2012]

To all here,

 

I appreciate most of your comments. I find them well-balanced and honest. I had no intention of making a problem here. If my posts got combative in any way, it was mostly because of the responses by StaggerLee 123 that I need some kind of mental help just for providing a different point of view. I didn't mean to hijack Time To Do Something's post. In telling my story, I was just trying to make Time To Do Something feel like he's not alone in his experiences with Dr. Epstein. He shouldn't blame himself for what happened. There was a time when I did. I just wanted to try to help him move on from the past.

 

Beyond this, I was also making a call for complete and utter honesty from the members of the hair transplant industry. There are tremendous risks involved in these procedures. I don't know how someone like StaggerLee 123 can view posts by someone like John R, (the man suffering from necrosis following his hair transplant) and not see my point of view at all. I myself was horrified when I saw the pictures of that poor man. It honestly made me fell ill. It also made me feel lucky and grateful that the nightmare has worked out for me in the long run. But that could easily be me with necrosis. And if it was, what would I do? What price for my vanity? Is there something wrong with someone pointing out these risks? Clearly, the doctors and patient reps don't do enough of that.

 

Tao made an excellent and honest post about his hair transplants. I appreciated his well-balanced statements both positive and negative. I looked at his pictures and am happy for him if he is satisfied with that amount of coverage. I, however, would not be. To my standards, it is not a substantial improvement over a shaved head. I think Tao (as indeed any other man) would have looked just as good with his hair shaved as he does with the transplants. In my opinion, it's a really expensive combover (not unlike mine). I know it is not for Tao. I know he is happy with it and that is all that matters. I'm cool with that.

 

But here is my point...

 

Is it not incumbent on the hair transplant surgeon to provide pictures like these so someone like me can make a correct decision and properly weigh the risks and rewards? Because if I had been told before my first surgery that in exchange for a super expensive combover something like necrosis could destroy my scalp, I would not take the risk. I'm quite sure that most men (especially young guys) who end up getting transplants would back out as well if they knew the whole story and could look at completely honest pictures like Tao's. Instead they are told that Propecia and minoxidil will hold their hair (a complete lie as neither work in the long run) and that transplants will fill in the rest. It's not fair to lie to people like that. I'm 100% sure about that.

 

If Wong, Shapiro, and others doctors here are not doing that, then I stand corrected. I just visited Shapiro's website and the patient pictures (with respect to large graft counts) are sometimes honest and sometimes same old story - shot from the manipulated angles, combed in a particular way and under a particular lighting.

 

At the end of the day, I know I have made my point here, even if it is often falling on deaf ears. Patients should be educated about ALL of the risks and ALL of the long-term implications. They should also be made clear as to what they are taking those risks for. They should know ALL of the long-term goals (the so-called master plan). I'm pretty sure most guys would rather look like Bruce Willis, Andre Agassi, Vin Diesel or Jason Statham than have to spend their later years worrying about combing over their hair to hide the large gaps in their hairline. That might explain why among more than a billion hair loss sufferers, so few (several hundred thousand a year?) actually go under the knife.

 

At the end of the day, bald is now in style. And all of us chose a combover instead.

 

For some of us, we would have just like to have been completely informed of the colossal risks and expenses we were taking for such limited returns. I'm quite sure, in his heart, Time To Do Something feels somewhere along those lines as well.

Edited April 6, 2012 by the-bald-reality2012
incomplete

[the-bald-reality2012]

StaggerLee 123,

 

I went back to your first post ever. I saw your pictures. You're right. You did post them up.

 

I find it hard to believe that you actually believe that your image has been improved by hair transplants relative to the money, time, and suffering you put into the process. Your problem wasn't fundamentally one of hair transplants gone wrong. Your problem was the classic one of supply and demand.

 

As I stated earlier, you are the poster child for what I'm talking about.

 

Actually, you would have looked quite awesome with your head shaved down as your head is quite round and your facial features aquline. A lost opportunity.

 

So feel free to keep "eviscerating" me in your world of denial. But I'm sure if you look at yourself in the mirror carefully, you know, in your heart, that you made a mistake. Instead of helping others not repeat your mistake, you choose to provide comfort to those that do. Misery does indeed love company.

 

And no, life at 47 is not a death sentence. But life at 47 posting forever on hair transplant websites might possibly be. Imagine all of the other options you could have with your life if you weren't wasting your time on a lost cause. Kind of like a prison of self-"evisceration" on a daily basis.

 

My message for Time to Do Something was one of hope beyond the mistakes of the past. Maybe you should listen to those words as well. There's a whole world out there, dude. If you look beyond your mistakes you just might find it.

[aaron1234]

TBR,

 

The fact is a lot surgeons/clinics - not all unfortunately - do explain the limitations of hair transplantation. I understand you are newer to this forum (though a HT vet) so you might not have seen these partiulcar instances:

 

1) H@W's outstanding rep Joe posting a painfully revealing picture comparing a donor strip to a NW7 scalp. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/164997-most-important-fact-remember.html

 

2) Doctors like Mike Beehner who admits that transplanted hair can and most likely will thin over time. He says, "It is certainly true that the transplanted hair does thin some over the years.... My own transplants were done around 30 years ago and my wife tells me that my hair has thinned over that time span."

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/165495-hair-transplant-concerned-about-long-term-effects.html

 

Furthermore, Dr. Konior gave me a wonderful consultation and explained this very same possibility in detail. As the donor hair changes in the future so will the transplanted hair.

 

3) At the risk of sounding like a cheerleader, my own experience with SMG has shown them to be nothing but entirely honest. Dr. Paul mentioned to me several times that due to my thin texture hair that it would take far more grafts to achieve the desired density and that I might still have to use some concealer. He also warned me that my hair under strong lights wouldn't appear as dense. If you look at my most recent pictures in the patient forum I have showcased my hair in both the best and worst lighting conditions to make sure all patients have the whole story.

 

These are just a few examples of many I know I'm glossing over.

 

As you were saying:

"Patients should be educated about ALL of the risks and ALL of the long-term implications. They should also be made clear as to what they are taking those risks for."

 

Absolutely! Preach it brother! I believe some doctors/clinics are doing just that. There are a lot of quacks/salesmen that still plague this industry (I've experienced one first-hand just like you - an actual recommended doc!). But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

I hope that your hair/scar situation gets improved with whatever route you decide to take. And I hope the same for guys like TTDS!

[Time to do something]

Here are some pics I just took. I had the transplanted hair colored Tuesday. You will notice the clear pic is with the flash which also makes it look very thin. I turned the flash off and it appears thicker but that also blurs the pic. Sorry, I tried several and I could not get a clear pic without the flash.

 

I think I am going to be a candidate for scalp tattooing. My only concern is that over the years the ink will fade and bleed. I suppose if I was going to get the procedure done and I was totally bald that could be more of a concern but since I have hair if the ink does fade and bleed it will be less noticeable since there will be hair over it. Any thoughts on that? I'm really looking for something that will lessen the contrast between the scalp and hair. Thanks

[Jotronic]

Ok, first things first. Stop using the flash. Period. No one walks around with a flash going off around their head so this is not how your hair looks in reality. The flash washes out some of your hair so it shows hair than is actually on your head.

 

I assume from your pics that you are using a cell phone. Hold the phone out away from your scalp but use a wall or door to support your hand. If you have access to a real camera then use the timer feature on the camera, place it on a table or counter, and simply pose. If you don't have the manual to learn how to use the timer then just look it up online. Learn more about how to take photos by watching my video on the subject...

 

http://youtu.be/ra6XolNTkPc

 

Regarding the tattooing option, forget about it. The bleeding out issue that you think might not be such a big deal will be a big deal even with hair on your scalp. You don't want a blue scalp. I've seen it on a guy that had hand and it ain't purty. The blue scalp was very visible under the hair. If you want to consider anything remotely similar to a tattoo then you shoud consider a temporary micropigmentation. I've seen the results from several companies now and when I was in Italy last month I met a woman that , in my opinion, offers the most realistic option available and it is temporary so if you don't like it you don't have to live with it. It lasts for up to two years and she can customize the color for you. She speaks about three words of English but her partner is marginally more proficient with English. Her clinic is called Beauty Medical Milano in Milan, Italy. I've seen the work and it's probably the best I've seen to date.

[Time to do something]

Thanks Jotronic. I swear in person it looks like I have more hair up there than it does when I take a pic of it with the flash. It is as if the flash makes the hair disappear. However, I hate to think if I'm out with a group of people and someone takes a pic with a flash and posts it on Facebook that is how I'm going to look. Sorry but I guess I'm a bit vain.

 

I'm not using my cell phone, I'm using my digital camera. Thanks for your opinion on the scalp tattooing. I just received an email from Good Look Ink that they are going to be featured on "Good Morning America" this month and I'd better book now because after the airing there will be a six month wait. I had no idea there was a temporary micropigmentation. That sound very interesting and I will research that! Flying to Italy would be a great vacation but I'm not in the income bracket to do that every other year. Maybe someone state side will start doing it. Thanks again for your very informative reply.

[aaron1234]

It is as if the flash makes the hair disappear. However, I hate to think if I'm out with a group of people and someone takes a pic with a flash and posts it on Facebook that is how I'm going to look. Sorry but I guess I'm a bit vain.

 

Flash is much like harsh lighting in that it makes the hair look thinner than it actually is. However, this is only true from certain angles. Obviously, taking a picture with flash of the crown or midscalp from a bird's eye view will make the hair look extremely thin. But I've had many flash photos taken of me straight on that actually make my hair look thicker than it actually is. I have a few of those up on Facebook and while my face is washed out from the flash, the hairline remains very strong and the density behind it remains intact. When the bright light comes directly above you, thats when you have problems. Bottom line is flash photography always distorts reality, for better or worse.

[the-bald-reality2012]

aaron1234,

 

I really appreciated your response to my post. That picture that Jotronic put up with the small strip of hair on a NW7 is a classic. Required viewing for any rookies. If that is the kind of honesty at some of the patient reps at the recommended doctors on this website, then I can only applaud their work.

 

Of course, this honesty should not be reserved solely for this website and those that visit it. Most of us are veterans. I'd like to believe that the same honesty is being given for those that walk in through their doors with no previous knowledge of hair transplants. There should be real compassion for the frail psychological state of those who walk into the door for the first time. They don't know and they have a right to know the WHOLE truth. An interest in making money should not blind either the patient rep or the doctor. They are going to be well compensated regardless, no need being greedy.

 

Saw your pictures up. Your pictures are 100% accurate. I would say my hair looks a lot like yours. In fact, I think our hair transplant experiences are similar in many respects.

 

Having dealt with the large donor scar, I would caution you to be careful going forward. After surgery 3 or 4, it can really widen quickly. It can jump from 1/2 cm to 2+ quite easily. It happened to me. That is why I nixed Epstein's call for yet another strip surgery. I wanted to use the remaining scalp laxity to get the width down with scar revision. I got it down to about 1/2 cm all around so far. But if you can avoid that hassle, I recommend you do.

 

Man, this whole ride has been just too much. I just want to imagine that it will be over soon.

 

I can imagine so many better ways to spend my time, money, and emotions. That picture of the guy John R with necrosis left me with nightmares. I’ve got about two more FUE’s to go before I retire from the game. Two more cookies and you can hang my jersey number from the rafters. I just want to get there drama free. Being that you and I have similar hairlines and experiences, I really hope you get that championship banner, too. This game is way too scary sometimes. As I’ve said before, if I had known it was going to be like this, I never would have suited up and taken the court.

[Time to do something]

Here is a pic I just took using the instructions I was given by other forum members. It is a little clearer.