Dr. Umar

[azazelgs]

Ryan123,

 

Congratulations for your choice. Eventhough I told you my opions in previous replies, I'm sure you will be in good hands with Dr.Umar and your result will turn out great. We are nearly in same ages so I feel you and wish nothing but the best.

 

So, my questions to you is could you please share some photos for your donor?(Leg, chest etc...) I really like to see what kind of hair Dr.Umar will use in your procedure.

[Jotronic]

Ryan,

 

I'm about to piss some people off but I don't really care. I know your case better than any of these posters so I'm going to ask you a series of questions.

 

1.) What is your main goal? A natural result or hair on your head? It may seem like a silly question but you'd be surprised at the differences. I've seen massive body hair cases in person. Remember when I said in my first post of this thread that body hair on the head looks like body hair on the head? I said it because it's a fact. I've seen your head hair and body hair looks nothing like your head hair. Do you want to be able to grow your hair long? Sorry, can't do it. The longer that body hair grows the more unlike head hair it will look. Ask yourself why all of the body hair guys have very short hair cuts. It's the only cut they can have. They'll say that it is because they have freedom from strip scars and CAN cut it that short but in reality it is the only real style they can have. If they try to grow it out long it looks even more unnatural.

 

2.) Are you planning on using nape hair for your hairline?

Many FUE docs will say that nape hair is the best for natural hairlines. It is because it is generally finer than hair from the traditional donor zone. But guess what; many times this hair is susceptible to DHT. Case in point, this patient had hair taken from his nape many years ago and the nape hair thinned out. Yes, it is a linear scar, which is not the point. Nape hair is nape hair no matter how it is taken out and since the procedure the hair has thinned out, not just in the nape but also where it was placed. Check it...

 

 

3.) What are you going to do when, not if, your hair loss pattern expands? I'm glad you are taking Propecia but if you eventually stop taking it based on the recommendation of the doctor then your hair loss pattern WILL expand. You're 27 and headed toward more hair loss in the future without preventative measures such as Propecia.

 

4.) Have you seen in BHT results in person? As of this post I think the answer is no but since you are going to have a consultation in December I believe that it is incumbent upon your doctor to have a full blown BHT case similar to the size session you are seeking for you to see in person.

 

5.) Do you realize that "one session" of 8,000 to 10,000 BHT is not done in one day? This will take about a week's worth of injections all over your body, your beard, your head etc.to make a week's worth of donor and recipient site incisions.

 

I want you to know that I'm not telling you this to get you in the chair for strip. If you were to tell me now that you want to come to H&W for strip I'd tell you to think again and try the meds for a few years. Why? Because you are looking to have a procedure that few people have had and you are looking for something to replace your hair system. In my experience most men that have hair systems want something just as thick and I'm hear to tell you that even with 20K grafts of body hair (mixed with other grafts) it ain't going to happen.

 

I'm also telling you this because I don't want to see you on here in a year and a half saying how you wish you had listened to me and the the others that have tried to educate you. Hair restoration, no matter who you go to, is not always the perfect solution. In fact, the more compromises you make for something the more likely that those compromises will open up more compromises.

 

I have said my peace and I wish you all the best with your journey.

[aaron1234]

You gotta appreciate Joe in his full glory - always looking out for us. Very compelling post. Don't take it lightly. Makes you think that Saturday Night Live was on to something with their pubic hair to head transplant skit.

[Jotronic]

Aaron,

 

Haha, I remember that skit. I actually downloaded it. What would you say though if I told you I have met a patient that actually had REAL pubic hair transplanted to his head? I've seen it and it wasn't pretty.

 

I want to be clear on my position and my statement above. I believe in BHT for repair patients that have zero options for traditional scalp donor hair and for those that have already had extensive work but could use some filler. I am of the full belief based on what I've seen, again in person, that BHT has approximately 30% to 50% yield in the best of cases. These are the ONLY scenarios where I believe BHT has ANY benefit. As a matter of fact my own crown could use a few thousand of my chest hairs (I've already had about 30 placed in a test). BUT I don't want to live with the scarring that is inevitable on my chest. I like to go outdoors in the summer and I am a water worshipper in that I swim A LOT but I am not crazy about the dots on my chest. When I tan they do not and they stand out a bit more. If it weren't for the amount of chest hair I still have they would be easily visible. I cannot imaging having thousands of these things all over my body much less having to endure hours of fraxel laser to lessen their appearance.

[aaron1234]

Aaron,

 

Haha, I remember that skit. I actually downloaded it. What would you say though if I told you I have met a patient that actually had REAL pubic hair transplanted to his head? I've seen it and it wasn't pretty. .

 

Dear God these people actually exist out there? Lord have mercy...

[moopookoo]

Ryan123

 

What is your body/beard hair like in terms of quality/caliber?

 

I bet you saw this guy full blown NW7

Historic First: Body Hair Transplant Restores Balding Head: 8,000 Grafts | DermHairClinic

 

Case like this one would have been rejected by 90% of clinics, Im guessing you made the right decision.

 

But why 20 000 grafts, this patient only had 8 000 grafts and you are about the same level(its fair to assume you will lose remaining hair on top in near future)

 

Out of 20 000 how many will be head/beard/chest hairs?

 

 

 

I think this one looks awsome

http://www.dermhairclinic.com/patient-videos/hair-piece-problems-a-permanent-solution-fue-9000-grafts/

Edited November 30, 2011 by moopookoo

[Ryan123]

Dear Jotronic,

 

Thank you so much for the information, I really really appreciate it and thank you for watching out for people on this forum. I am going to answer all of your question:

 

1. My main goal is natural hair, I understand where you coming from. I understand that body hair will never be like head hair, so in my first procedure I will only use my headhair around 7 to 8000 grafts hopefully and then later I will use the body hair to add density. I am still thinking whether I should do my first surgery (Just like Azazelgs have metnioned) to do with H&W or Rahal using FUT for FUE and then later go to Dr. Umar and add density using body hair. I am still not sure but I would like to go through this journey with one doctor (the best for me) all the way.

 

2. I am onm Proscar so will have to wait few more month to see if it will effect my body hair. I will not use nape hair. Dr. Umar has told me that he has not witnessed any change in growth in his patients who are on proscar, however he told me to be on the safe side stay on it for few months and then we will see if it effects your body hair

 

3. I am already norwood 6, so I have lost a lot of hair. Please note that I lost all my hair because I starfted wearing hair piece at age 21. If I had been on Proscar, I seriously think I would have not been where I am. All memebers of my family/relatives have full head of hair. I really dont understand this question as this can apply to everyone. I wish I was on this Forum then and people like you and some other who have been helpful would have stopped me from wearing hair piece becasue I was just looking at the photos, I was almost norwood 2 when I started wearing hairpiece.

 

4. I have not seen a BHT result in person and I will NEVER do it before seeing one in person. I was supposed to meet someone two weeks ago, however because of his tight schedule with work he could not make it. I will meet him probably end decemeber.

 

5. Yes I am aware it will take 1 week, but again I have done lots of research and seen Dr. Umars work where has done these mega sessions and turned out to be successful.

 

Jotronic, Again I thank you for your post. Your questions are valid and I would say: it is because of your questions that I have been asking my self is the reason why I have not done the surgery. Can you PM your email as I would like to discuss few things regarding strip with H&W. I have contacted H&W before but no respond.

 

You mentioned that BHT has approximately 30% to 50% yield in the best of cases. You are an expert and I apologies for me saying this as I am sure you do know better than me. I have seen cases from different clinicss and research were the survival rate has been 70 to 80%. I would NEVER do BHT if I knew it is only 30% to 50%. There is a gentleman on this Forum Hairtoday and he did his procedure using body hair and almost 70 to 80% grew back. Can you please clarify or am I mistaken.

 

Best regards,

Ryan

[Ryan123]

Azazlegs and moopookoo I will post my body hair, beard pictures by end of this week for you to have an idea

[mahhong]

I have to say, and this is just a personal opinion, that in the majority of BHT cases I see I honestly think the results look not particularly nice. I understand, as Joe said, that for patients with simply no other options they represent the opportunity to repair nightmare procedures and shoddy work, but despite the coverage they offer, I honestly just think quality of the hair looks horrible.

 

I see a lot of guys talking about NW7 to NW1 but I think if you're really thinking like that, there is some psychological imbalance you've developed where you're simply seeing coverage as king. Yes, the coverage you can get with BHT is indeed impressive, but the density and quality isn't in my opinion. It usually ends up looking like scraggly wire wool and your options for future styling are very, very limited.

 

I am not saying this just to be harsh to men that have or are considering BHTs - it is up to them and the option is clearly there. But I would seriously urge people to start thinking, why do they want their hair back? Having something on top of your head does not automatically make you more attractive or look younger or improved. I think a lot of men get to the stage where mentally they simply equate putting hair on their head as the realisation of their goals. Hair is only useful if it's good quality and able to be styled and incorporated as part of your look. All the genuine success stories I see on these forums nearly always comes down to men that have a HT that allows them to have a head of hair that goes with their overall look and improves it. Some men have a HT and just let it grow and leave it untouched and in all honest I sometimes see cases where I think the patient would have looked better just shaving down and being proud of it. This is my personal opinion, I realise it is not fact or should have no bearing on the patient, I am just saying what I see.

 

I would really urge people to think seriously about what an HT is for, because I think there are sometimes deeper psychological issues akin to those found in plastic surgery. There are plenty of people that get addicted to the procedures and not the results of them. It's always sad to see people walking around with horrendous cosmetic surgery and their stretched, taught skin and lifeless features. But in their head they're planning the next improvement - clearly they have forgotten the point of what they started out for.

 

I think the same thing is possible with HTs, perhaps more so. We all know of "hair greed" and in most men that's fine - they just want to use their available donor to improve on what they've already had done. But I do sometimes see guys talking about NW1 restoration and I look at the results and, honestly, just think I'd rather have no hair. I do wonder if they got to the point where they simply assume if they can't see scalp glaring at them, they assume success.

 

As I have said, these are my opinions, I have not come here just to be a nuisance. It's not my place to say what is or isn't good - but I do think sometimes people need to think further than just getting their hair back and think about why they want it back, how they imagine themselves with it. Some people talk about BHT NW1s like they're going to look like Brad Pitt or George Clooney and I worry that they've lost focus. If you feel a BHT will genuinely get you your goals then you have to go for it I guess, but if you really think about it and find you've been wanting your hair back for the sake of wanting any sort of hair back, then I honestly wonder if the time and money and commitment of a BHT will genuinely make you happier, healthier or more at ease with yourself. A HT is an emotional journey and even though the changes may be physical, that's not really where the true changes happen.

[aaron1234]

As always, well said mahhong.

 

Ryan, it sounds like you have an open mind, which is a good thing. I think the density transition from a hair piece to transplants will be a difficult journey for you. You'll need to have the utmost patience.

 

If you have the donor for strip, I personally would go with that option first. It is the best resource for restoring your hair. If you ever run out of the resource and still have the desire to restore your hair further then I would look into adding BHT to what you already have.

 

I personally think Hairtoday looks much better now, but others would argue with me on that. Either way, he really didn't have the option for strip and I think FUE/BHT (body and beard) was the last resort and only resort for him. Body hair will always be there if you want it to disguise a scar or address a certain area - but why not go for the surest thing first if you have that available to you?

[moopookoo]

You mentioned that BHT has approximately 30% to 50% yield in the best of cases. You are an expert and I apologies for me saying this as I am sure you do know better than me. I have seen cases from different clinicss and research were the survival rate has been 70 to 80%. I would NEVER do BHT if I knew it is only 30% to 50%. There is a gentleman on this Forum Hairtoday and he did his procedure using body hair and almost 70 to 80% grew back. Can you please clarify or am I mistaken.

 

 

Well that is not the case according to Dr Umar, when asked about yield his response was:

 

Typically, about 85% of planted grafts would manifest on the surface. 10-15% would be in rest phase and the difference would be the hair that did not grow. Obviously there could be individual variations.

 

 

Also pioneer of BHT that cant be named for legal reasons claims that 95% of BHT/beard grows when he implants them....its confusing

 

 

How do docs determine yield of HT?They dont count hair I imagine....is there any way to verify how many hairs grow?

[ej]

Ive had 1032 beard grafts removed from my chin and face , I have no visible marks at all . Ive seen patients who have had grafts extracted from the chest and have no visible marks , in both cases a punch size of .8mm was used , I think bigger punches may cause scarring .

 

Dr Feriduni has a result in results posted by ` Drs ` section, chest hair was removed with a punch size 1.2mm there are no pictures of the donor area a few months later, they would be good to see re marks/extraction scars ( if any ) . My view on beard hair is that it works pretty well , obviously i would avoid using it in the hairline

 

regards

 

ej

[HairToday72]

Yes I would say at least 80% now the hair has grown in and matured.

 

It looks like many top fue surgeons (some recommended on htn) are now doing beard grafts to a greater or lesser extent. Sooner or later beard has to be considered a donor source, even if it be of last resort.

 

Obviously I can speak for ppl who had a bad experience, there seems plenty of those for all types of surgery and doctor, I can honestly say my quality of life has improved since my ht, which is after all why we're all here isn't it.

[Ryan123]

Hello All,

 

I would like to wish you all a very happy new year and propersous 2012 and with loads of hair

 

I have finally consulated with Dr. Umar in person and he was quite shocked to see me in person that I have so much hair left. I always thought I was norwood 6 even most top notch doctors who I had sent my pictures said the same but he belives i am norwood 3 to 4 after seeing me in real life. I giuess the pictures were not clear enough since I am using hairpiece so you cannot see a reall growth there. WE have agreed to do the surgery sometimes in June

 

1. I have been on proscar since October 11 and so far I have not seen any effect on my beard of body hair. I will however continue taking proscar and keep the remaining hair and hopefully grow some more since the hairpeice might have casue some to fall

 

2. He has told me that I will only need one surgery (opposed to original plan which was communicated through emails) and I have allowed him to go up to 10000 grafts using hair and beard starting from front line all the way to crown. He said there is a chance that we might do 8000 as he does not want to put hair on top of exisiting hair but I told him you are free to put as many numbers as you wish.

 

3. After this surgery, he reckon I will have zero recession so back to norwood zero. However since I am young I will have to see him probably in 4 or 5 years.

 

I would appareciate your expert opnions as I would like to make sure I am making the right decision.

 

Best regards,

Ryan

[mahhong]

Hello All,

 

I would like to wish you all a very happy new year and propersous 2012 and with loads of hair

 

I have finally consulated with Dr. Umar in person and he was quite shocked to see me in person that I have so much hair left. I always thought I was norwood 6 even most top notch doctors who I had sent my pictures said the same but he belives i am norwood 3 to 4 after seeing me in real life. I giuess the pictures were not clear enough since I am using hairpiece so you cannot see a reall growth there. WE have agreed to do the surgery sometimes in June

 

1. I have been on proscar since October 11 and so far I have not seen any effect on my beard of body hair. I will however continue taking proscar and keep the remaining hair and hopefully grow some more since the hairpeice might have casue some to fall

 

2. He has told me that I will only need one surgery (opposed to original plan which was communicated through emails) and I have allowed him to go up to 10000 grafts using hair and beard starting from front line all the way to crown. He said there is a chance that we might do 8000 as he does not want to put hair on top of exisiting hair but I told him you are free to put as many numbers as you wish.

 

3. After this surgery, he reckon I will have zero recession so back to norwood zero. However since I am young I will have to see him probably in 4 or 5 years.

 

I would appareciate your expert opnions as I would like to make sure I am making the right decision.

 

Best regards,

Ryan

 

I think if you've seen the results Dr. Umar can achieve with BHT and you like them, and this is his opinion having seen you in person, then it sounds like the right step forward for you. 8-10,000 grafts should give you good coverage and density and if you're happy using BHT I think Umar is probably about the best and most consistent performer I have seen using this technique.

 

The only thing I would say personally is - are you sure you want to try and go for NW0/1? I know it sounds like every man's dream and it would be if density and donor wasn't an issue, but it just seems to me too aggressive whatever NW you are and whatever surgical technique is being employed. It's obviously a personal thing so if you really feel you want it and can get it, then that's your decision. I would just think about having a slightly more conservative hairline with good density and saving a bit of donor, rather than trying to go full blown NW1 and finding out in 10-20 years time you don't have enough donor if you need another procedure.

 

I don't know how young you are, but if you are young (20's/early 30's) being really aggressive will probably be to your detriment. I know BHT offers more donor if combined with traditional FUT, but if you're heading towards NW6 or NW7 (very good chance you might be heading that way too) all the donor on your body won't give you totally natural density right back to NW1.

 

Dr. Umar is a good doctor and his results are consistent, so if you and he have developed and agree on a treatment plan, I am sure he will have every faith he can achieve your goals and leave enough contingency to address potential future problems. I would just be cautious dreaming about NW1, zero hairloss paradise, because ultimately it still can't really be done even by the best doctors (just a simple case of mathematics). But only you and Dr. Umar know your case properly and his advice and opinions are the most important.

 

Whatever you do though, best of luck! This is an ambitious procedure and I really hope it gives you the results you want!

[Atticus]

Wise choice! You have chosen the best!

 

Atticus

 

 

Hello All,

 

I would like to wish you all a very happy new year and propersous 2012 and with loads of hair

 

I have finally consulated with Dr. Umar in person and he was quite shocked to see me in person that I have so much hair left. I always thought I was norwood 6 even most top notch doctors who I had sent my pictures said the same but he belives i am norwood 3 to 4 after seeing me in real life. I giuess the pictures were not clear enough since I am using hairpiece so you cannot see a reall growth there. WE have agreed to do the surgery sometimes in June

 

1. I have been on proscar since October 11 and so far I have not seen any effect on my beard of body hair. I will however continue taking proscar and keep the remaining hair and hopefully grow some more since the hairpeice might have casue some to fall

 

2. He has told me that I will only need one surgery (opposed to original plan which was communicated through emails) and I have allowed him to go up to 10000 grafts using hair and beard starting from front line all the way to crown. He said there is a chance that we might do 8000 as he does not want to put hair on top of exisiting hair but I told him you are free to put as many numbers as you wish.

 

3. After this surgery, he reckon I will have zero recession so back to norwood zero. However since I am young I will have to see him probably in 4 or 5 years.

 

I would appareciate your expert opnions as I would like to make sure I am making the right decision.

 

Best regards,

Ryan

[ssstingray]

Hi Ryan

 

good luck with your journey

 

I have been around the block with HT disaster and I will tell you that Dr Umar is a true master and can be argued the best HT doctor in the world. I have done 15,500 grafts so far over 1.5 yrs. (my case is repair) and will most likely be doing another 5K+ grafts. From my personal experience-unless you are doing different parts of the scalp at different time, then doing the same "area" in a 3-4 month period is to short. Of course Dr Umar is the judge because I am just talking from experience. If you put in the effort (time, commitment, etc) you will be pleased.. Dr Umar has changed my life for the better. I don't come on these forums to often, but sometimes when I do, guys complain about body hair, etc, not being perfect, and huge numbers needed, etc. At the end of the day-cost aside-Dr Umar has the ability to use this as in invaluable source and blends hairs. I know other have recommended to you-BUT NEVER DO STRIP- you are asking for real trouble from a cosmetic stand point if you have lost a lot. Forget about the comment "strip out first". Take it from a guy who has multiple strip procedures and scalp reductions by "famous" but butcher doctors. If you are going to do anything-I highly, highly recommend to see Dr Umar. I fly 5 hrs away to see him (from Toronto). Plan for the max and give yourself the time and patients. But once again-from my experience if you do say 20K grafts, give yourself about 3 yrs for the whole process (even if you had completed the work within that time).

 

Dr Umar is the precursor to unlimited supply. Between a beard (side burns, chin, under neck, face), sides of head, back of head, and if you have a fair amount of body hair)-the sky is the limit.-the ratios match. but more importantly it is done in a way that leave virtually no scar behind-which is a huge deal-no linear scalpels, etc.

 

may the force be with you.

[Atticus]

I agree with your quote sean:

Well, my guess is that survival rate may be better than head hair. This is from my own observation.

 

All I know is that as the years go by, my beard hair (though some classify beard hair as head hair) becomes tougher and thicker. I have to frequently shave my stomach and chest since I lift weights (this shows the muscle better). I see older guys in their 60s-80's with thick long chest hair BURSTING out of their shirts!

 

Me personally? I had my hairline and temples modified away from the dracula (or mickey mouse) hairline into a more traditional hairline. The dracula hairline aged me by about ten years. Dr. Umar used nape hair on my hairline with great results. Five years later, I will say my hairline looks great as well! In my family, the men have hair bursting out of the back of their necks/nape area. Their wives must consistently shave or buzz it off back their so it doesn't look sloppy.

 

Have a good one!

 

Atticus

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, my guess is that survival rate may be better than head hair. This is from my own observation. When I was younger, I did not have any hairs on my shoulder or my upper back, but as I got older, they just sprouted out of no where. Same goes for older men, they seem to have an increase in body hair as they age. People who's backs were not covered are covered and you can witness this on sunny days at the beaches. From shoulders to back to front, it seems as you age, more body hair sprout up. So, the survival is pretty good I think. Hell, you can even see ear hair on older folks sprout up and even wild eyebrow hair. There is an issue with resting phases I have read about, but not all body hair rests at the same time from what I have read. I don't think body hair alone is such a mainstream focus as it does appear different in texture. Some studies do suggest it grows longer on the scalp in length but the texture is still different. But in combination with beard hair and as filler hair it can be used successfully. I think Umar performs it since he is a licensed dermatologist as well. He knows all about skin issues as well as hair and is able to extract body hairs successfully from areas where some people might be hesitant due to scarring or may not be experienced to do so. But being an expert in dermatology, he might be able to reduce scarring through is own extraction process from the body and beard area. This could be a reason I just don't know. It's a time consuming process but Umar can extract tons of grafts in one sitting, He basically can implant like 3500+ grafts a day or something. I don't know what he is doing or how he is doing it but it is working and you can see it on his patients. He hasn't really spoken about his process and what he researched to do what he is able to do today, but it is working. I think if more and more people found out his technique they will be able to do the same, until then, he is pretty much the only one that I have seen successfully do it, and openly do it. There are guys on here that have done over 5000 grafts with him that achieved a thicker fuller look with his combo methods.

[alanrudy]

Hi Ryan,

Similar story to you, was wondering how much money your procedure is estimated to cost?

[Ryan123]

Hi Alanrudy,

its better to contact them directly as they have different prices if you are willing to have your picture or video taken.

[alanrudy]

Ok, makes sense. I actually found a rough answer on their website depending on how many grafts a person needs. Thanks for replying though.

[thanatopsis_awry]

My first post in ages, Ryan! Took me about twelve password attempts till I remembered the right one,

 

A few questions, my man, and one statement, which you really need to hear.

 

*What is the breakdown of the 10,000 grafts Umar is shooting for? How many of these grafts are to be body hair, vs actual scalp hair?

 

*Do you believe you will be achieving a "NW0-1" look at the end of this procedure? Did Umar say you would be achieving a NW0-1 result, or affirm this after hearing you say this is what you believe you will be ending up with?

 

Now, for the important statement which I'm going to base on but few simple facts -- off what you said you want, and what has the greatest liklihood of getting you what you want.

 

*You are something of a NW3 to NW4, as affirmed by Umar and various other doctors. This is an extremely important consideration.

 

*A natural result is critical to you.

 

*Density is extremely important to you (I base this off your remarks about being a NW0-1, and that you have worn a system for a while, and are accustomed to a certain level of density).

 

Bro, if you get a hair transplant, it should be FUT, it should be a mega-session, and it should be with a clinic where you know you have the absolute greatest certainty of achieving both "naturalness" and "density".

 

You're a young dude, a virgin scalp; your hair is obviously extremely important to you. It's extremely important you take as few chances as possible, and remove as many variables as possible that can stand in the way of you achieving what you want.

 

A world-class FUT procedure can get you the result you want. **And**, ifit can't, if the density and naturalness isn't what you're after: it simply means you are going to be that much more dissatisfied by going through with a BHT/FUE session of this nature on a virgin scalp.

 

You're worried about a strip scar now; there is way too little worry over you getting the result of density and naturalness that you are after. Don't put the cart before the horse.

 

Personally, I had a strip scar that didn't turn out terribly well; definitely on the lower end curve of what you could expect. This was because of my physiology, and probably because I started competing in boxing and grappling earlier than I "should" have.

 

I've had girls run through my hair (donor included), I've played sports where I've been soaked wet in my scalp and had people close up to my head; not a single inquiry into my scar, ever.

 

I told the salon I had been going to that I was looking into *another* hair transplant; the woman who cuts my hair looked at me, incredulous, and asked "you already had a hair transplant?!?".

 

That said, let's use Hasson&Wong, since you have mentioned them frequently regarding FUT. I have no idea what graft total would be recommended to you, but if you are a NW3-4, and you want a respectable level of density, let's just say somewhere in the neighberhood of 4000.

 

If you ask H&W to meet, or see examples of the type of procedure you'll be going in for, it would be their pleasure to show you a million *crystal clear* before/afters of patients who received appox 4000 grafts.

 

Am I saying Dr. Umar could not replicate a result as dense and natural with what he is recommending (*which really needs to be clarified, re: your expectations, and the breakdown of the 10,000 grafts*)?

 

Am I saying that what Dr. Umar is proposing would not achieve such a result with the *extreme* level of consistency that Hasson&Wong could, and which they can prove (through years upon years of crystal clear documentation, and meeting people)?

 

I am saying to you that I have no idea, because I have never seen a BHT/FUE case, in the 10,000 graft range proposed, with crystal clear documentation, and that achieves such a look of density and naturalness.

 

I have seen -- literally -- hundreds with Hasson&Wong, and hundreds more from other top clinics utilizing FUT on a case similar to yours.

 

Trust, but verify is a good saying. Verify, then trust is also a good one :cool:

 

I wish you the best, and no matter what you decide, factor in the questions I mentioned; and do not make a decision with any hair transplantation until you have received crystal-clear verification:

 

on the type of results you will be seeking, based off the precise type of surgery you will be receiving

 

the surgery you will be receiving has the highest % chance of success

 

If your expectations match up with both those variables, simply go to whomever can provide the best documentation (proof), and the greatest history of that proof (chance of success).

[Ryan123]

Dear Thanatopsis,

 

Wow that was one hell of an explanation and I thank you for taking your time.

 

I am very familiar with Hasson and Wong work, but there are few things that made me decide to go with Dr. Umar.

 

1. I have been worrying about my hair for so long and now I dont want to worry about a scar, this is why I have chosen Dr. Umar since hasson dont do FUE

2. I dont have a virgin Scalp, because I wear a hair system I have to shave my head, so Dr. Umar suggested if I grow my hair for three months he will be able to graft the hair around my exisitng hair so more like a dense packing and create a new hairline

3. I have given him permission to target 10,000 grafts but he said he might stop at 8,000 or so to avoid any shockloss. He will use as much hair he can from my Scalp and maybe around 1,000 to 2,000 from beard.

4. As for crystal, consistent result, I 100% agree with you abour Hasson but Dr. Umar has recently come out with great result and they seemed to be consistent work.

5. Yes he said that I will get average 50cm2 density all around my head which is around Norwood 0 to 1, if I am not mistaken. However I am aware that I will not get the same density as I did when I was 18 or as my hair peice. But since I am doing many grafts using body hair, I hope to achieve the best. Do you think the 4000 grafts from Hasson will be a better option than my plan?

6. Again he said my case is very special and noone had my kind of goal so my surgery will be unique on many aspects

I tried to express my thoughts, however if you think anything I said is wrong or that I should do more research on what I am saying please feel free to say and I would be more than happy to start thinking of other options.

 

Best regards,

Ryan

[thanatopsis_awry]

Dear Thanatopsis,

 

Wow that was one hell of an explanation and I thank you for taking your time.

 

I am very familiar with Hasson and Wong work, but there are few things that made me decide to go with Dr. Umar.

 

1. I have been worrying about my hair for so long and now I dont want to worry about a scar, this is why I have chosen Dr. Umar since hasson dont do FUE

2. I dont have a virgin Scalp, because I wear a hair system I have to shave my head, so Dr. Umar suggested if I grow my hair for three months he will be able to graft the hair around my exisitng hair so more like a dense packing and create a new hairline

3. I have given him permission to target 10,000 grafts but he said he might stop at 8,000 or so to avoid any shockloss. He will use as much hair he can from my Scalp and maybe around 1,000 to 2,000 from beard.

4. As for crystal, consistent result, I 100% agree with you abour Hasson but Dr. Umar has recently come out with great result and they seemed to be consistent work.

5. Yes he said that I will get average 50cm2 density all around my head which is around Norwood 0 to 1, if I am not mistaken. However I am aware that I will not get the same density as I did when I was 18 or as my hair peice. But since I am doing many grafts using body hair, I hope to achieve the best. Do you think the 4000 grafts from Hasson will be a better option than my plan?

6. Again he said my case is very special and noone had my kind of goal so my surgery will be unique on many aspects

I tried to express my thoughts, however if you think anything I said is wrong or that I should do more research on what I am saying please feel free to say and I would be more than happy to start thinking of other options.

 

Best regards,

Ryan

 

Hey Ryan,

 

You're obviously a smart dude, and want the best for yourself. I don't want to make it seem like I'm trying to sell you on anything; it's like I said at the end of my first post, the particular clinic or Dr you choose I have *zero* concern with. Everything I'm saying is based just off important things you have said, over the backdrop of what I know to be factual based off of what I have seen and experienced about hair transplants, results, and expectations being met.

 

1. I have been worrying about my hair for so long and now I dont want to worry about a scar, this is why I have chosen Dr. Umar since hasson dont do FUE/QUOTE]

 

I know what you mean dude; when you get the surgery done, you don't want to have to *keep* worrying about head and hair situation. You want to feel real relief. Ironically, this concern is precisely why I'm saying what I'm saying.

 

You can't lose sight that it is your *hair* -- how much you ultimately receive, and how that hair ultimately looks -- that is going to be the make or break of your happiness moving forward. I know you're worried about your scar right now, but, IMHO, you should be most concerned about your actual hair first. I know it's easy to start from the initial premise of: FUE won't give me a strip scar, FUT will, I may as well get FUE and have 0 worry about a strip scar.

 

I get the sense you're overvaluing the problems you think a FUT scar will pose, and undervaluing the concerns of not getting the actual result you want.

 

I myself ended up with a *below* average strip scar; which was very unlikely, but it happened.

 

100%...and I'm prone to paranoia and have been about as obsessed over my hair in the past as anyone can be.....I have never had to worry about my scar. I simply can't buzz my head, but I never want to do that anyways No joke....I've been living with my girlfriend for over a year....she likes playing with hair and running her hands through the back of my head....she doesn't know I had a HT....and she still doesn't.

 

Take that for what it's worth. One time, I was getting physical therapy on my neck, and the therapist had to lift around my hair back there and really examine the area; he once asked "did you wear a hat earlier today, it kinda looks like you wore a hat too tight or something". I said, "yep, i did", and that was that,

 

3. I have given him permission to target 10,000 grafts but he said he might stop at 8,000 or so to avoid any shockloss. He will use as much hair he can from my Scalp and maybe around 1,000 to 2,000 from beard.

 

:eek: Oh man. Dr. Umar said he will be getting 6000 to 9000 FUE grafts from your scalp in this "session"?

 

That claim/diagnosis aside...even if Dr Umar could do so, did he say that he is sure you as a patient -- with your physiology and donor area -- could legitimately extract that many grafts in a session*?

 

(*, by session, in theory, that would have to mean being in the surgical chair for a good part of the week, I'd assume).

 

If it's true that you would be receiving 8000 to 10,000 FUE grafts in a single session", that would be the first time I have ever seen such a surgery performed; let alone successfully.

 

Back to my core point: I'm not a genius, so maybe such a thing occurs often and can be proven to work and be consistent.

 

Did Dr. Umar show you clear, precise documentation of FUE cases in the 8000 to 10,000 range, including 6,000 to 9,000 of those grafts being from the scalp?

 

I'm not trying to get you in a "gotcha" moment at all, as you know. These are just all really important questions, and it's really important (and kind of worrisome) that you don't seem to have been given as firm a grip on the situation as you should have.

 

4. As for crystal, consistent result, I 100% agree with you abour Hasson but Dr. Umar has recently come out with great result and they seemed to be consistent work.

 

I hear ya. If Dr Umar showed you a dozen or so results of clear documentation -- and you liked the results -- of patients receiving 8,000 to 10,000 FUE grafts from a single session of work, including 6,000 to 9,000 from the scalp......I'm not going to dispute it in any way.

 

If this happened, terrific. If it didn't, it'd be another major red flag.

 

I know what a pain in the ass fighting MPB is, and then considering a HT, and then pulling the trigger, so having to then answer and find out these types of questions isn't exactly an enjoyable thing.

 

5. Yes he said that I will get average 50cm2 density all around my head which is around Norwood 0 to 1. Do you think the 4000 grafts from Hasson will be a better option than my plan?

 

I don't know if 4000 grafts performed by anybody would be nearly as good as 8,000 to 10,000 grafts, mostly from the scalp, that actually grow.

 

It's just quite a claim for a Dr to say you will be getting 8,000 to 10,000 grafts in a FUE session, and end up with 50cm2 density to a NW0-1 pattern.

 

Which is why I asked before just to clarify if that's what Dr. Umar legit said. *And* if he said he really think she could get that performed on you (eg, not everyone's scalp is the same, let alone their donor, so even performing an FUE procedure of half that size would be out of the question for many people).

 

*SO*, the most important follow-up I'd again say is: if you saw plenty of clear documentation showing FUE cases of 8,000 to 10,0000 grafts, mostly scalp hair, that restored density to someone of 50cm2....That would be a major breakthrough.

 

I've just never seen such a case. :confused: But if you have, and the prior questions have annswers that matchup....I'm in no position to disagree.

 

You're hanging tough, Ryan! Thx for answering my questions before!

[aaron1234]

He's back!