Did Corvettester Deserve to be Banned?

[jessie1]

Did Corvettester Deserve to be banned?

 

This is the question I wanted to ask to the community.

 

Bill-Moderator has already stated the reasons for his actions and we must accept them, no matter what our thoughts are. He is the main man. But after reading the last four comments on the thread in which he was banned, I wanted to hear what the rest of the community thought.

 

Please, I sincerely do not want this thread to be about my experience with Dr. Feller or to turn into some sort of mudslinging match against Corvettester, myself or the Moderators. Bill has made his decision and we must respect that. We have all been through it over the past couple of weeks so lets not get too personal.

 

Also, bear in mind that Corvettester is not here to defend himself, so I ask that whether or not you believe he should be banned, please keep it respectable and balanced.

 

After reading through almost all of his 374 posts, I must say that I disagree with the accusations against him. He contributes a lot to the community and I am perplexed as to why he is in this position. Also, his profile and hair loss website is among the best, most detailed and frequently updated of any that I have seen on this forum, not to mention that he is one of the few members that shows his full identity.

 

Again, I don’t want this thread to be bout me or my experience. That is separate, completely separate. Also, I request that all comments remain respectful of Corvettester and the Moderators, and on topic. Otherwise it will be pulled again.

 

Please keep this respectful guys.

 

I am asking only one question: Did Corvettester Deserve to be Banned? Why or why not?

 

Jessie1

[aaron1234]

Corv did contribute here quite a bit and was often very helpful. It was also obvious he had a quite thing against Feller. Was he given a warning by the moderators? Far more prolific posters have been banned in the past.

[Guest Ian512017155]

Of course he didn’t deserve to be banned. Anytime a former client says something unflattering about Dr. Feller they have agenda. Anytime one of us comments on a thread of Dr. Feller’s and agrees with the patient we have an agendas. This is the reason why he got blocked along with many other people over the last year because he had some strong statements about Dr. Feller. Some of his statements I agree with and some of his statements I do not, so we agree to disagree.

In my opinion this site has an agenda, to help educate and promote awareness of hair restoration. However this site also generates business and is an unlimited advertisement tool for these doctors. That’s why I feel he got banned is because his comments could affect Dr. Fellers reputation and business in a harmful way. However truth be told due to Dr. Fellers own recent online actions, language and behavior he has done more to harm his own business and reputation then you, corvettester or anyone else could ever do or say here online and that’s very sad because he is a very good doctor.

[Levrais]

Corvettester should not have been banned. That thread and others between Dr. Feller and his patients will have the same affect, good or bad, without corvs posts. I would suggest that those interested reread the entire threads (if you have a few spare hours) minus corvs posts and see if it changes your opinion of Dr. Feller one way or the other. IMO the common attention getting parts of those threads are that there is 1) a patient who is not satisfied with a Doc and 2) a Doc who takes an approach in responding which is unique compared to how other clinics respond. Corvettester is simply a member of the forum putting in his two cents which is seemingly what he is invited to do. I think the fact that he stands out in threads involving Dr Feller is simply because those threads themselves stand out. Personally I wanted to continue following Corvs progress and his experience with T&D. I am disappointed because I never got his email address and have no way to contact him to get updates.

[Cant decide]

Of course he did not deserve to be banned. Was he biased toward Feller, maybe but there are many who are biased toward other docs in a consistently positive way which may tilt the scale in the other direction so what is the difference? Certainly, if a poster is constantly biased and defaming with agenda then they should be banned but in my judgment, he did not have an "Agenda". He was just not a fan of Dr. Feller's work or his attitude on these boards toward patents who raise their dissatisfaction (Nor am I).

I don’t want to speak bad of Dr. Feller since I do think on balance, he is a good solid doctor who cares about his patients but his attitude alone leaves something to be desired in my opinion.

[SkinUpPinUp]

From a forum point of view - no. He was a knowledgeable, literate and informed poster. This is clearly important forum to him and this is clearly evident in the fact that he is still lurking on the forum, even if in a silenced form.

 

From Bill's point of view - maybe. I don't think there was a professional agenda here, but Corvettester did appear to have a preoccupation (to the point of obsession) with Dr Feller and Spex. This manifested itself frequently and he seemed to jump on any and all opportunities to point out what he saw as corruption or ethically questionable behaviour on their part. From Bill's point of view, this can clearly be disruptive to the forum as a whole as entire threads could drift off-topic as it turned into another cat-fight about Feller, Spex or any poster whom he suspected as having some form of affiliation with them. From this point of view, I have to respect Bill's opinion whether I agree with it or not.

 

What's frustrating is that Corvettester is clearly a very intelligent, cultured and witty guy with a strong sense of integrity. He is clearly not just a forum troll. I think that he contributes a lot to the forum and I, like everyone else, am very interested to see how the rest of his HT progresses. Yet, if we look at what happened in the Jessie1 thread as a microcosm for the wider problem, he turned almost feral. I, like others, tried to bring things back on topic and allow him to cool down a little, but it was all to no avail. Self-restraint went out the window - he was very single-minded and nothing seemed to bring him back down to earth until, alas, it was too late.

 

Personally, I'm hoping that this gives him time to take a step back, take a breather, and look at things from a different perspective. From here, I really hope that Bill gives him a chance to come back on the boards, even if on probation, and we can take it from there. Still, this is Bill's board and I understand his position.

Edited July 29, 2011 by SkinUpPinUp
Silly grammar

[Troll]

Well I have some good news for all the Corvettester fans, he is alive and well and still posting with his alter-ego, Ian512017155. Yes folks that's him. Don't let his periodic intentional bad spelling and grammar fool you. Corvettester IS Ian512017155. 100%.

 

(And fyi, I don't mind at all that some people use 2 accounts. After someone has made a genuine account and revealed their identity, it is perfectly understandable that he or she might later want to voice an unpopular opinion and are afraid or embarrassed to do it from their real account. This happens regularly on web forums of all types. My reason for "outing" corvettester/Ian512017155 yesterday was because he had some very harsh words for people who use multiple accounts just as he does. corvettester, your hypocrisy did you in.)

[Michael5577]

Of course not. The motivation behind his ban as stated by Bill is that he was "biased" against Feller. Even if true, so what?

 

Feller is highly problematic.

[Ahairdown]

No he didn't deserve to get banned. So it sounds like this board is paid by the recommended doctors??>??? Really?.... makes me question the legitimacy of this forum as a tool for prospective patients. If you don't have pom poms and a short skirt on for the doctors, you're considered a "crusader" against a doctor.

 

I think the forum members deserve to know if there are factors at play here where the moderators, or owners, would have a hard time being impartial. Are they being paid by these doctors? If so, how much are they being paid?

 

Could a warning have been put out there that these funds might be cut off if corv wasn't booted? Looked like the Feller sure made it clear that he doesn't mind suing his form hair transplant reciptients... but of course only if "they ask for the hammer" right????... you think he' have an issue with pulling advertising funds from this place?

 

Bill came on that thread and called us a "few crusaders" because we were questioning this doctors actions he was displaying in the thread, which is absolutely ridiculous and I'm insulted by this.

 

My opinion is that if this forum is indeed being paid by they recommended doctors, this should be disclosed when someone navigates to this forum.

 

Something stinks here.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Ahairdown

[aaron1234]

Well said SkinUpPinUp. Now if he was going after Pats and the Armani clinic I would understand. But Spex and Feller have long established their credibility in the HT industry and on this forum. I think this community needs posters like corv... he was an asset to this forum no doubt... just without the not-so-subtle biases against a particular clinic.

[aaron1234]

ahairdown... the moderators, Falc (Bill), and Pat the Publisher have never hidden the fact that doctors pay to be recommended on this network. How else could they keep up a site of this magnitude up and running and sustain it? Not to mention protect themselves from lawsuits from Armani?

[mattj]

It seems that Bill has made up his mind. Personally I hope he reconsiders and reduces the ban to a temporary 'time out', as I liked Corvettester and think he's a valuable member of the forum.

 

I don't believe that Bill was motivated by some sort of need to protect doctors from criticism. Some people allege that Bill censors unfavourable comments towards surgeons but I just don't see it. Plenty of threads and posts critical of 'big name' surgeons are allowed to exist. What Bill does have, though, is an obligation (as the administrator of a popular and influential forum) to ensure that criticism, when it occurs, is kept balanced. It's a tough job. It must be very hard to judge when to step in.

 

I think Bill is articulate enough that if he deemed Corvettester's behavior to be inappropriate, he would be able to deliver a suitable verbal warning before resorting to a permanent ban.

[orangehair]

To set the record straight, the insinuation that Corvettester was encouraged, compensated, and/or employed by True & Dorin is absolutely false. Corv is just a very enthusiastic, passionate individual who really embraced his hair loss journey and sincerely enjoyed being involved in the vibrant environment the HTN forum has engendered.

[bonkerstonker]

To be honest it's a shame as corv was very intelligent and yes a great help to the forum newbs but he definitely was on a mission to damage Feller, granted I've been negative towards feller on a few occasions but whenever I did I really meant it in that particular thread and moment but I found my self constantly seeing corv attack feller and spex for anything he could and never once said anything positive so it was clear feller couldn't be wrong all the time so corv was on a vendetta for some reason which is not needed when others are trying to make their own minds up about particular cases.

 

Anyway he's not properly band he will still be with us it's just he can't reveal himself or post his pictures but with respect to him I don't think he needs to post anymore pictures.

 

As far as should he have been booted well that's up to the moderator but bill won't have done that at whim he knows corv was popular especially with the feller unhappy patients obviously as corv would say he had a big following of fanboys.

 

Is Ian corv? Hmm I'm not sure, it did cross my mind a few weeks ago but can't say for definite so it's a little harsh to say he is.

Edited July 29, 2011 by bonkerstonker

[Ahairdown]

Aaron, can you point me in the direction to where this is disclosed, maybe I missed it?

 

I agree that it takes money to operate this forum. However, there is a HUGE difference between driving revenue by doctors advertising here, and the forum RECOMMENDING a set of doctors because they are paid to do so. The assumption by a casual web surfer, or heck even myself, is that this place is recommending these doctors soley based on their skill set. Do you not see the conflict of interest here Aaron?

 

Even assuming the best in the admins and owners, they could be leaving off top quality docs from their 'recommended' list because some docs may not want to pay to be a part of it.

[bonkerstonker]

Hi orange the only people that have even touched on the subject was firstly corv in defence against no acusation and I mentioned yesterday he might be trying to do you guys some service nobody ever acused him of working for dorin or being encouraged so I don't know why he was so uptight about the subject! As I'm the closest person to saying what you mentioned I feel you didn't need to defend your self with that post as it seemed clear you weren't involved but thanks for mentioning.

Edited July 29, 2011 by bonkerstonker

[Ahairdown]

OK, I found the disclosure of this site being paid for their recommendations. It's buried, but it is indeed there...

[Guest Ian512017155]

Troll: You are just like your name states a troll.

[aaron1234]

I agree that it takes money to operate this forum. However, there is a HUGE difference between driving revenue by doctors advertising here, and the forum RECOMMENDING a set of doctors because they are paid to do so. The assumption by a casual web surfer, or heck even myself, is that this place is recommending these doctors soley based on their skill set. Do you not see the conflict of interest here Aaron?

 

There could be a conflict of interest, no doubt. But I've been here long enough to see some long time recommended docs removed because their results have not been great. So while the people behind the site have a financial incentive to recommend as many docs as possible here, they must also maintain the site's credibility with the patients. Otherwise, why would a doctor want to be recommended on here in the first place?

 

Even assuming the best in the admins and owners, they could be leaving off top quality docs from their 'recommended' list because some docs may not want to pay to be a part of it.

 

This is actually true for some docs. Some very qualified docs chose not to be a part of the HTN for various reasons; some being the constant evaluation of their work, the pre-screening, the fee, and other things I can't think of at the moment. But that is their own choice and doesn't necessarily reflect poorly on the site.

Edited July 29, 2011 by aaron1234

[bonkerstonker]

I got to admit forums being paid by doctors does look a bit fishy but lets take htn for example, they don't jump at the sight of money and they definitely don't let jokers into the fold so what's the problem they need money to keep the forum runnning and nobody does anything for free do they? Recommended Doctors here are tried and tested we know they have the correct tools like scopes for the techs and so on.

 

For me i think it's good because it keeps the doctors on their toes if you have a problem with a Doctor recommended here you can come and have a row about it with them in front of everyone on here and the moderators never delete the thread it always stays some do get locked but can be found when other users search surgeons names. Also the Doctors don't want to be rowing on here as it damages the product the they're paying for, ultimitely they don't want that so they stand by their work if they know they're in the wrong which does happen a lot.

[Levrais]

This forum is great IMO for getting information on HT. *In other words its an extremely useful tool in researching HT. *Without forums like this, we're left with going to individual clinic sites, talk about bias! **This is a great place to quickly find tons of Information that is all right here, thus hours are saved looking all over for the info. *Having said that, when it comes to decisions on what to do and to what is said in any given post, it must all be checked for reality and the obvious bias must be considered. *It is to be expected that if there is a dispute between a doc who is shelling out thousands of dollars to advertise here and a member/patient, the patient is eventually going to get bumped. *The docs will get the boot if they stop paying the fee. *Just basic economics. *This is IMO still the best place to be when going through the ht process. *

[Bill - Seemiller]

My decision to suspend Corvettester wasn't easy. Personally, I liked the guy's objective input, questioning and statements on other topics. But when it came to Dr. Feller, there's no doubt that he had developed a bias which had indeed turned into an agenda to discredit him. I'm sorry if you don't see that, but it became obvious to me and several members who've been sending me private messages about it over the last couple of months.

 

I had personally warned Corvettester about this privately months ago after receiving dozens of complaints by several dedicated members. In fact, Corvettester's abrasiveness when it came to Dr. Feller came with a cost of losing some valuable members who were tired of his evident agenda. However, to follow suit, I had simply provided Corvettester with a warning and a request to refrain from commenting on Dr. Feller related topics because his bias against him, his clinic and Spex was becoming apparent. Corvettester agreed to this in an attempt to prove he didn't have an agenda against Dr. Feller however, despite my warning and his agreement to remain absent from Dr. Feller related topics, he obviously couldn't.

 

For the record, I never called anyone other than corvettester a "crusader" against Dr. Feller nor did I accuse anyone else of having an apparent agenda. You also have to understand that while my words may have seemed harsh towards Corvettester, this is far from the first time I've had to talk to him about this. Determining who has an agenda isn't always cut and dry. But when someone repeatedly goes out of their way to make negative (or even promotional) comments about a particular patient, physician, etc., one has to assume they have one. Corvettester is no exception to this.

 

Is having an agenda always bad? Not necessarily. But having an agenda with intent to harm or blatantly promote is in violation of our terms of service. Proving intent to harm isn't easy however, it can be gauged by a poster's repeated posts on the same topic always touting the same message.

 

This community has never hid the fact that surgeons recommended on the Hair Transplant Network pay a sponsorship feel to support this patient based community. This is clearly listed on our physicians standards page. However, only surgeons who meet our high standards and consistently produce excellent results are invited to be amongst the elite. This community has and still turns down surgeons interested in potential recommendation on a regular basis even before they make it to the public prescreening process. Additionally, surgeons have been promptly removed when this community no longer felt a particular doctor was regularly producing world class results.

 

Regarding Corvettester, at the very least, he needs a cooling off period. If he still wishes to be a part of this community after a short period of time, at the request of this community, I will consider giving him one more chance and reinstating his posting privileges.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[cardel25]

I dont think that he deserved to be banned. Yes he has been biased towards attacking dr.feller but he has been one of the best contributers on this forum. Is spex gonna be baned for hes positive biased attitude towards dr. feller ?

[aaron1234]

Thanks for the clarification Bill. The decision makes sense now that you mentioned that this was discussed before with corv. I do hope to see him back eventually.

[Michael5577]

C posts in Feller threads were well-argued and highly articulate. The members of this community aren't low IQ children and can determine whether what a contributor says is accurate or not. Additionally, Feller, his reps, and other contributors can always attempt to rebut and set the record straight - that's the beauty of online fora. I believe that Bill's action has hurt his credibility and that of this forum.

 

To suggest C has an nefarious "agenda" against Feller is ludicrous. Like many, he's simply appalled at Feller's treatment of former patients and at some troubling behavioral idiosyncrasies.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Michael5577