Senior Member Jotronic Posted January 13, 2011 Senior Member Share Posted January 13, 2011 I can verify that the moderators did not ask FC to remove his photos as there is no reasonable explanation as to why they would do so. In addition, no one from H&W asked FC to remove his photos because that is not how we operate. Fingers Crossed arrived at our clinic with a severe case of not only dermatitis but folliculitis as well. Once the procedure was performed Dr. Hasson wrote a prescription for a stronger than usual antibiotic to clear up the issue but unfortunately the condition returned and FC has been battling the problem off and on ever since. Dr. Hasson advised FC to immediately schedule an appointment with a local dermatologist to get more direct and appropriate attention to remedy his condition and he was advised that once it is cleared up then we are happy to revisit his case with enough surgical attention, if necessary, to put the problem to bed once and for all. Light cases of dermatitis usually do not cause problems but in the case of FC it was more severe and was accompanied by folliculitis. To say that these conditions do not have the potential to cause problems is incorrect. I can attest that dermatitis can and does cause one's hair to look thinner. That is why I have been a big proponent of Polytar AF shampoo because it is the ONLY thing that made a difference for me after I tried at least ten other shampoos. For several months my own hair became considerably weaker and caused me great personal anxiety but once it cleared up my hair returned to it's normal condition and has been fine ever since. This may be the case for FC as well because when flaking occurs it can and does take hair along with it. If it is a case where the condition itself prevented some growth then we will take care of it. Period. Again, the Hair Transplant Network and it's moderators had nothing to do with FC's missing photos and neither did H&W. FC removed these photos on his own, which of course, is his right. The Truth is in The Results Dr. Victor Hasson and Dr. Jerry Wong are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hairthere Posted January 13, 2011 Senior Member Share Posted January 13, 2011 Jotronic, Was Fingerscrossed given the option to opt out of the surgery given his condition at the time? I just wonder if it would have been wiser to wait for it to clear up. I understand that can be a major inconvenience, but this patient risked a great portion of his donor for this procedure. Also, what types of options has the clinic offered him moving forward? I am the owner/operator of AHEAD INK a Scalp Micropigmentation Company in Fort Lee, New Jersey. www.aheadink.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Spanker Posted January 13, 2011 Senior Member Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) Guys, I appreciate your concerns however, I can assure you that the administrators and moderators of this community had nothing to do with the removal of these photos nor any posts related to this topic. Furthermore, the publishers of this community are completely against the removal of legitimate and genuine posts once they've been created. I firmly believe that members should either commit to their posts or not post at all. Of course, we do request that concerned patients do attempt to resolve their concerns with their physicians first. Two days ago, I had received an email from FingersCrossed requesting that I remove the entire topic. My response to him was below: ------ (Real Name Removed) I'm glad to hear that you and Dr. Hasson reached a resolution. However, we typically do not remove discussion topics once they're started unless the topic blatantly violates our terms of service. We feel that it's far better for the patient to post a reply to the topic with an update on how the situation was resolved. If you and Dr. Hasson have come to an amicable resolution and agreement that both of you can be satisfied with, I encourage you to post a reply to the topic letting the community know. Feel free however, to discuss what you are going to say with Dr. Hasson and/or Joe first. Best wishes, Bill -------------- After I sent this, I had learned that FingersCrossed had already removed his photos and potentially some of his posts on this topic. Thus, I sent him another email asking him to either commit to his posts in the future or not post at all, especially since this topic has now been rendered useless. That said, it's now up to the poster, not the publishers of this community to either decide to update this topic or not. I would prefer however, that FingersCrossed provide this community with an update as to the resolution he and Hasson and Wong came to. After all, it's only fair since he already started this topic. I hope this helps clarify things. Best wishes, Bill The members could not have asked for a better response from the moderator/administrators of the forum. This was the most important part of this thread. That said, it is not really Jotronics place to have to let the forum members know about the specifics of this case, especially without the consent of FC. I am not saying that it is HIPPA violation(no real way to identify FC), but with him being a forum contributor, I do not think that we should blast Jo with questions about FC's case specifically. H&W and the administrators of this forum and come forward and said that they had nothing to do with the removal of these pics. So obviously, FC decided to. If FC wants to contribute to this thread anymore, it is up to him. I think he should. WARNING: The above is only my opinion, there is a chance that I am wrong....but if I am, I will never admit it. Edited January 13, 2011 by Spanker double double talk I am an online representative for Dr. Raymond Konior who is an elite member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians. View Dr. Konior's Website View Spanker's Website I am not a medical professional and my opinions should not be taken as medical advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Jotronic Posted January 13, 2011 Senior Member Share Posted January 13, 2011 I can appreciate Hairthere's common sense question. What I can say is this; the fact of the matter is that the issue of his scalp condition was noted and discussed but with the efforts we made we felt that the issue would be resolved. Unfortunately that obviously wasn't the case. FYI, this isn't a case of doom and gloom where only two grafts grew. It's a case where some spots didn't fully materialize as expected. Regarding what we're going to do, I already addressed this in that once he gets his condition cleared up with whatever his dermatologist recommends then we'll do the right thing and do what is in our power to improve the areas that are lacking. FC is fully aware of our position and stated his opinion on the situation in his second post of this thread. I hope this clarifies things as there really isn't anything further to add. The Truth is in The Results Dr. Victor Hasson and Dr. Jerry Wong are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hairthere Posted January 13, 2011 Senior Member Share Posted January 13, 2011 I do wish the patient had left his photos up so we could all have a better idea of what we're talking about here. His pre-op pictures really don't look that bad, so even if he had only 70% success it would probably still look good. It is good to know the patient was fully aware of the situation before going in, and glad to see H&W standing behind their work even when it's not a home run. I am the owner/operator of AHEAD INK a Scalp Micropigmentation Company in Fort Lee, New Jersey. www.aheadink.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member hairlosscursed Posted January 14, 2011 Regular Member Share Posted January 14, 2011 I understand that FC had serious issue with his skin.The only thing i can t get with this case is why FC that already knew his condition with his skin and that his HT was not successful,finally decided to post his final result that already knew it s bad and he asked for our opinion and he was also offered to answer all the questions we might have.After some hours he removed the photos he put...this is the thing i can t get...i mean if i don t like my results and i don t like what i see in the mirror then what is the point of showing them in public????specially if i know the skin issue which means i know the reason of the failure too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Baldtom Posted January 14, 2011 Regular Member Share Posted January 14, 2011 Thanks for letting us know about the missing pics? I have to admit when I first noticed that they were missing I was concerned that FC was forced to take them down... I hope FC decides to reposts the pics and also hope that he will get better results in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Megatron Posted January 19, 2011 Senior Member Share Posted January 19, 2011 The fact that Fingers Crossed has not reposted the photos must mean that he's happy with whatever resolution he's received from Hasson & Wong. So good for you Finger. I wish you the best of luck! re: Hasson & Wong and their representatives - I think everyone acknowledges that you're one of the top clinics in the world. It's a shame that you don't feel comfortable openly discussing & showing less than ideal results. My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Simmons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsakalos Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 re: Hasson & Wong and their representatives - I think everyone acknowledges that you're one of the top clinics in the world. It's a shame that you don't feel comfortable openly discussing & showing less than ideal results. I am sorry to dissapoint you my friend, but if you are waiting for Jotronic to reply on your comment, you will be waiting for a looong time. becouse when Jotronic expects answers, he sais Still waiting. However when existing or future patients / consumers are waiting for answers by him, he likes to play hide and seek. (depending on the question that needs to be answered of course) And since still i am waiting for jotronic to answer here Can the clinic rep tell us his opinion, what does he think that the percentage of growth in this particular transplant of 4700 in this (small) area is ?? , and also to remind us how many FU/cm2 were transplanted in this case ? Or even better to provide us with info, how many total cm2 was this recipient area, in order to make the math and have an idea of the density which this number of grafts aimed at ? Becouse i really want to know what makes the clinic rep so trully happy, cause it seems from the patients words, that he doesnt seem to be sharing this trully happiness, and maybe others who arent clinic reps may also have the same opinion with the patient. Standing by ... (cause after i have another question regarding the tons of better look) i will have to use Jotronic's own words by saying Still waiting. Still waiting for an answer regarding the "trully happy feeling" of yours regarding Phils mac Scalpen's case ... (Sorry for the copyright violation btw) Who knows ?? Maybe the worlds top Dermatologists are still debating whether Phil had also some brutall killer dermatitis on his head that affected his outcome. Maybe thats the reason as to why we havent heard any news by him yet... :rolleyes: Ps. my secretary is on vacation this week, therefore i am unable to accept any international phonecalls. Plz try again next week. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member The count Of Baldecristo Posted January 22, 2011 Regular Member Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) I agree with you that reps should not cherry-pick the questions they answer. Its very sad in one thread we here about paid patients in other threads the clinics avoid the questions... These are supposed to be top clinics. What do they have to fear by simply answering. To me it looks like they just try to piss you off and make you look like the bad irritating guy! And if i can ask a question as well. If the guy had such bad dermatitis why risk his yield with a transplant at the time, its not like we have a lot of donor to just through the dice Edited January 22, 2011 by The count Of Baldecristo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Megatron Posted January 27, 2011 Senior Member Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) ...Its very sad in one thread we here about paid patients in other threads the clinics avoid the questions... just to clarify...you're referring to Armani paying patients not H&W. correct? Edited January 27, 2011 by Megatron My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Simmons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Megatron, While I don't know the details regarding the discussions that took place between Hasson and Wong and "Fingers Crossed", I see no indication that Hasson and Wong isn't willing and isn't comfortable to discuss less than optimal results. Ultimately, it is up to both the patient and physician how to resolve their concerns. For whatever reason "Fingers Crossed" decided to pull off his photos, I don't know. Frankly, I wish he didn't as it renders this topic useless. However, hopefully someone will provide us with an update and in the end, "Fingers Crossed" will be happy with the outcome. Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Tsakalos, I find your comments to be unnecessarily antagonistic and completely unrelated to this topic. The way I see it is this. It's either time for you to share the full details of your hair transplant experience including photos by creating a new topic on this forum and allow a healthy debate or keep the inappropriate jabs and insults off this forum. I'm going to expect you to comply with the latter regardless of whether or not you choose to share your story and results. But rather than hiding behind your computer with angry words, put your money where your mouth is and disclose the details of your experience and photos publicly and let your clinic share their side of the story. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsakalos Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I am not sure i understand the expression "put your money where your mouth is" and what the meaning of it is, maybe you can explain to me, but the way i see it is that u are being somewhat disturbed with the fact that my posts are "irrelevant" . What makes u think that my post was irrelevant ? becouse the post had to do with Megatron's post wondering why h&w isn't willing and isn't comfortable to discuss less than optimal results ? Becouse i had also answered questions. So if my post was irrelevant, so was Megatron's. So it had nothing to do with my case but with the fact that i am disturbed (and not angry) becouse questions arent being answered from clinic reps, who btw are obliged to answer to questions and not to avoid the "diffucult" ones Are we allowed to ask questions or not ? And since you are disturbed that i am asking questions, are you also disturbed when questions arent being answered by clinic reps ? As far as my story (which has nothing to do with my post in this thread) i will probably meet my doctor soon, and after that i will post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Jotronic Posted January 27, 2011 Senior Member Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) I have no idea why anyone would say that I've "avoided" anything. The pictures were taken down and members asked why. I answered it. A question was asked why the growth was not 100%. I answered it. The question was asked about what happened. I answered it. Done and done. Now I see that Tsakalos has asked a question about a result that is irrelevant to this one. Tsakalos, the reason why I'm happy for the other patient isn't really any of your business because my comment was meant for him, which he understood, but I'll tell you that he had a very big problem with is hairline looking unnatural because of his plug hairline from so long ago. He does not have to worry about that any longer because his hairline is no longer pluggy. However, you reference "the patient's words" and try to make it look like he's not so happy. HIS words were "I wish it were thicker" which isn't exactly a damning statement especially when you consider his additional comments in the same thread. I have quoted those statements below... "The most important question, I suppose, is am I glad that I did it? Unequivocally the answer is yes." "...I truly wish I had done it sooner." "For me it has been worth every single penny." "Would I recommend Dr. Hasson to someone who has ALREADY decided to get an HT? Yes."Regarding his pluggy hairline that I mentioned earlier, he says... "As a repair patient the difference in constantly wondering if your hairline is showing and if someone has noticed your HT to now not really worrying about it is a huge weight off my shoulders."Based on the patient's own words I find it hard to believe that he's got any pressing issues with the result so I don't see why you should have a problem with his result either. Edited January 28, 2011 by Jotronic The Truth is in The Results Dr. Victor Hasson and Dr. Jerry Wong are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Jotronic Posted January 28, 2011 Senior Member Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Btw, Tsakalos. Your comments about me playing hide and seek are just ridiculous. I've got quite a bit on my plate at the moment so just because I don't peruse every post looking for questions doesn't mean I'm avoiding anything. I don't play that way. Those quotes you took from me where I"m saying "still waiting" is because I started a thread asking a suspicious poster to contact me. He claimed he was a patient of ours only one month post-op and was saying some things that were outrageously false so I was calling him out. Oddly, he's since disappeared but I guess you wouldn't know anything about that, would you? There have been a few mystery posters saying a lot of BS about us, a few of which were busted several weeks ago by Bill for being the same person. Edited January 28, 2011 by Jotronic The Truth is in The Results Dr. Victor Hasson and Dr. Jerry Wong are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Megatron Posted January 28, 2011 Senior Member Share Posted January 28, 2011 I for one enjoy reading Tsakalos' posts and I while I agree that he may come across overly bitter, I think there is a lot of merit to his opinions. It's unfortunate that some are trying to paint a different picture than what really happened here. The only logical assumption is that Finger removed his pictures because he struck a deal with H&W. Good for him. I'm sure he's content or else he'd be expressing it here. A while back, I did exchange an PM with Finger about his HT experience. I will respect what he shared with me in private, but I will say that I'm confident in my assumption above. My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Simmons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member lorenzo Posted January 28, 2011 Senior Member Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Finger crossed first of all congrads on your surgery. Good for Dr. Simmons to offer you a free touch up. You make some STRONG accusations and I hope you can back up what you are saying. I hope that if and when Finger Crossed decideds to post on the website you will be a man and say your comments have been made in error. You are talking about a world class clinc ( as is Dr. Simmons) that has always been open with any dilemas with any clients. Are you saying that they stuck a deal with H&W to remove his pictures??? I didnt see Finger Crossed pictures so I cant comment on the pictures. Nor do I know any imformation concerning him since it is all confidential, I as an part time assistance have NO RIGHT to any information. Once again you have made some strong accusations that refers that he made a deal to take his pictures down. This accusations in my opinion are EXTREMELY damaging to any clinic and if I was a clinic I would look at them seriously. In my opinion your comments are made to damage and hurt the reputation of H&W. Edited January 28, 2011 by lorenzo Representative for Hasson & Wong. Dr. Victor Hasson and Dr. Jerry Wong are esteemed members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians. My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Hasson & Wong. My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Hasson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsakalos Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) He claimed he was a patient of ours only one month post-op and was saying some things that were outrageously false so I was calling him out. Oddly, he's since disappeared but I guess you wouldn't know anything about that, would you? . I really do hope that u arent implying that this "poster" was me or something ? Becouse whatever i have to say, i say it by my own nickname (not anonumously) and behind this nickname you happen to know my full details (Full name, adress etc). dont you ? I have no idea why anyone would say that I've "avoided" anything. The pictures were taken down and members asked why. I answered it. A question was asked why the growth was not 100%. I answered it. The question was asked about what happened. I answered it. Done and done. First of all, i never asked why Fingers Crossed took down his pics. that is his own decision. My questions where regarding Phil malscalpen case, which they have been left unanswered. So lets say that u never saw my question up to now. I accept that. But obviously now you have seen it. Now I see that Tsakalos has asked a question about a result that is irrelevant to this one. Tsakalos, the reason why I'm happy for the other patient isn't really any of your business because my comment was meant for him, which he understood, If your comment was meant just for him, then why it wasnt sent by pm or email ? However your comment was made in a public forum with title (By and For Hair Loss Patients), in a thead that Phil created for the posters, so the "my comment was meant for him" really doesnt stand, becouse i do happen to be a hair loss patient myself (as the forum title states) Forum posters have the right to ask questions dont they ? Becouse by saying "isn't really any of your business" its like denying posters/patients to make questions, furthermore denying then to participate in discussions (unless they participate the way you like), furthermore adopting a point of view in which a forum (Which stands for "Content being generated by the user base") must only have questions/posts only from the Patient who's results are being presented in the specific thread, and any other should just watch and not post/ask "becouse it aint his bussiness" and i have a feeling that this is not what the Forum management wants. But when you (or other clinic reps) are posting results and other people commeting/ asking questions, you do not reply to them by saying "isn't really any of your business", do you ? Becouse if its not our bussiness, then why are you posting them ? Obviously you are wrong here. but I'll tell you that he had a very big problem with is hairline looking unnatural because of his plug hairline from so long ago. He does not have to worry about that any longer because his hairline is no longer pluggy. However, you reference "the patient's words" and try to make it look like he's not so happy. HIS words were "I wish it were thicker" which isn't exactly a damning statement especially when you consider his additional comments in the same thread. I have quoted those statements below... Regarding his pluggy hairline that I mentioned earlier, he says... Based on the patient's own words I find it hard to believe that he's got any pressing issues with the result so I don't see why you should have a problem with his result either. Yes i Do have a problem. And i will tell you why. Becouse the same patient Phil, (Unless Dr. Hasson had also another patient who happened to be using the nickname Phil Malscalpen) on another forum he wrote. Rich, I don't think being a repair patient has anything to do with it. The amount of punch grafts I had from Bosley was only around 100, so not a huge amount. Pre-surgery I asked Dr. Hasson what growth rate I should expect and he said there was no reason it should not be 100% and that was what he expected So based on what you say, and based on what Dr. Hasson said to the patient, the "but I'll tell you that he had a very big problem with is hairline looking unnatural because of his plug hairline from so long ago." doesnt really stands at all, if you take a look at the above quote from Phill, there is a huge contradiction dont u think ? While i do apologize to Bill for replying in the thread regarding Phil, while this thread is about Fingers crossed, i had to , becouse Joe didnt reply to Phil's thread instead he replied here. For the Forum Management. As i said before Forums are sites where "the user base generates the content". The user base has to follow the forum rules, nobody denies that. On the other hand any forum owner wants to have a good user base in order to produce good and valid content, furthermore producing a Good Quality Forum. The forum user base needs the respect of the owner, after all, its the user base that produces most of the content and not the forum owners nor the clinic reps. Due to the nature of how things really are in the HT Industry, i am really sure that the Forum Management wants constructive discussions that tend to inform other patients for the better (assuming they are based on facts and not in false or unexistent claims), and not to have questions or important issues being left unanswered or unexplained. As far as posters do not insult others or do not break the forum rulles, the Management should indorse the reps answering important questions (even the difficult ones), should allow the user base to submit questions and / or critisism in cases where things simply didnt go as well as they should have been, becouse i am really sure that the Forum owners do not want people proceeding into such expensive life lasting surgeries, unless all questions or issues are well explained in details, including cases that unfortunately can not be characterized as "success stories" thanks Edited January 28, 2011 by Tsakalos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Spanker Posted January 28, 2011 Senior Member Share Posted January 28, 2011 I think it is about time to close this post. It will offer no more good to this community. Personally I think that FC should have squashed this by coming on and finishing this thread out but it has not happen. I hope this gets locked. Bottom line is that the OP does not want to continue this thread for one reason or another, Can we move on? I am an online representative for Dr. Raymond Konior who is an elite member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians. View Dr. Konior's Website View Spanker's Website I am not a medical professional and my opinions should not be taken as medical advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Guys, I agree with Spanker that it's time to close this topic and move on. Everyone has the right to their own opinion and many of you expressed it here on this topic. But since topic is no longer relevant since Fingers Crossed chose to remove his photos for one reason or another, I'm going to lock this topic. If Fingers Crossed contacts me privately and would like re-post his photos and re-open this topic, I'm certainly willing. But endless debate and discussion about results nobody can even see anymore isn't getting us anywhere. I do wish Fingers Crossed all the best and hope that he and Hasson and Wong work together to resolve any remaining concerns. Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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