Dr Epstein consulation charge $175 ??

[GregPorche]

Hey all,

 

I started web consultations with few of the docs and in-person with few others.

 

Now the ones I sent pictures to, kindly responded saying they wanted further details and it seemed like they actually bothered looking at the pictures.

 

Dr Epstein on the other hand simply gave a one line response saying that he has looked at my picture and would like me to come in for a in-person consultation. I had asked, in my email, for an cost estimation which was not provided. Moreover his website mentions that they can provide digital image of what we can expect from his procedure. Again, this was not provided.

 

On calling Dr Epstein's office I was asked for $175 just for an initial consult.

 

None of the other docs behaved this way.

 

This has all left a bad taste in my mouth for Dr Epstein. It just sounds too greedy. Why does he have to mention all this on his website when he simply is going to ask for $175??

 

As I mentioned before, other docs atleast bothered to look at my pic and came back with genuine questions.

 

Is this another Boseley.? Are all those other posts about how good Dr. Epstein is, just a self promotion ?

[GregPorche]

Hey all,

 

I started web consultations with few of the docs and in-person with few others.

 

Now the ones I sent pictures to, kindly responded saying they wanted further details and it seemed like they actually bothered looking at the pictures.

 

Dr Epstein on the other hand simply gave a one line response saying that he has looked at my picture and would like me to come in for a in-person consultation. I had asked, in my email, for an cost estimation which was not provided. Moreover his website mentions that they can provide digital image of what we can expect from his procedure. Again, this was not provided.

 

On calling Dr Epstein's office I was asked for $175 just for an initial consult.

 

None of the other docs behaved this way.

 

This has all left a bad taste in my mouth for Dr Epstein. It just sounds too greedy. Why does he have to mention all this on his website when he simply is going to ask for $175??

 

As I mentioned before, other docs atleast bothered to look at my pic and came back with genuine questions.

 

Is this another Boseley.? Are all those other posts about how good Dr. Epstein is, just a self promotion ?

[irish homer]

Originally posted by GregPorche:

 

Is this another Boseley.? Are all those other posts about how good Dr. Epstein is, just a self promotion ?

 

I for one was not asked to pay any money for a consultation with Dr E. his replys were prompt and all questions were answered. I live 3000 miles from his office and am in no way promoting his practice, any comments i make about the doc are because of my positve experience with the office. I'm not douthing your post but my dealings with Dr E, Roxy and all at the office was and continues to be top notch.

[JakeVig]

Hi GregPorche,

 

I have heard that Dr E does charge for an in person consultation although I believe that the cost from these consultations will be deducted from the HT price should you elect to go with him.

 

I believe that the consultation fee is probably a result of demand for his time. A lot of top doctors are even too busy to provide consultations themselves and employ dedicated staff to handle the patient consultations.

[troy]

I have never heard anything bad about his work, and recently there was a post about him helping a little girl who was a burn victum for free. Maybe it was a fluke situation. What other docs are you considering?

[JakeVig]

Originally posted by troy:

I have never heard anything bad about his work, and recently there was a post about him helping a little girl who was a burn victum for free. Maybe it was a fluke situation. What other docs are you considering?

 

That is right, Dr E is also famous for his Bona fide work in transforming the lives of young children with severe burns. Troy, I believe that he is also looking at Dr Rose. Greg you mentioned earlier that you wanted to see some of Dr Rose's patients, I believe Troy is a good example of Dr Rose's fine work!

[the B spot]

If a doctor is charging a fee for his time, at an intial consult, something is amiss. Regardless of whatever guarantee or money being applied to a session, that is ridiculous and should be spread all over the internet, IF it is true. A doctor popping in for five to ten minutes during 4 or 5 consults while he or she is taking a break from surgery is not to much to ask is it? I would hope that this is NOT true, and if it is, that it would be discontinued. Let me put this in perspective:

I want to buy a car, but the salesman wants 200.00 for me to look at the lot, you know, for his time.

I want to buy a home, but the real estate agent wants 100.00 per home that they show me.

Oh, but they will give me back my money if I buy from them. Come On!

If you are good at what you do, people will come to see you and have you change their appearance.

Maybe these "Appearance Fee's" is how Dr. Epstein can do these free miracles we keep hearing about?

Just a thought, and I hope this is not true....

To many other GREAT HT surgeons more than willing to spend time during a consult FOR FREE, to have to deal with that.

[JakeVig]

Originally posted by the B spot:

If a doctor is charging a fee for his time, at an intial consult, something is amiss. Regardless of whatever guarantee or money being applied to a session, that is ridiculous and should be spread all over the internet, IF it is true. A doctor popping in for five to ten minutes during 4 or 5 consults while he or she is taking a break from surgery is not to much to ask is it? I would hope that this is NOT true, and if it is, that it would be discontinued. Let me put this in perspective:

I want to buy a car, but the salesman wants 200.00 for me to look at the lot, you know, for his time.

I want to buy a home, but the real estate agent wants 100.00 per home that they show me.

Oh, but they will give me back my money if I buy from them. Come On!

If you are good at what you do, people will come to see you and have you change their appearance.

Maybe these "Appearance Fee's" is how Dr. Epstein can do these free miracles we keep hearing about?

Just a thought, and I hope this is not true....

To many other GREAT HT surgeons more than willing to spend time during a consult FOR FREE, to have to deal with that.

 

Thats some pretty harsh words there B-Spot. I don't think we are in a position to be able to comment on the running of their business. Dr E may not have enough time in his day for consultations and the consultation fee may be there to limit the no of patients to those who are genuinely interested.

 

Your analogies with the salesman is not valid in this case as anyone is able to show you a car or a house. The limited resource in question here is Dr Epstein himself (and his years of experience). The existance of a consultation fee is normal in the skilled services business. Accountants, Lawyers, IT Professionals, etc will still charge for the consultation and advice even if they don't end up doing the work.

 

As mentioned earlier most top doctors that I know of don't even do the consultations themselves as they are too busy performing the actual procedures. Hell even with dedicated staff doing the consultations I still had to wait 2 days for my appointment for a phone consult.

[GregPorche]

$175 is way too excessive and I was a bit taken back when I was told about this charge.

 

It's good to be living in an internet era and its good to have forums such as these where one can discuss these matters.

 

A doctor can choose to charge whatever he/she wants to and i guess we have a choice whether or not to consult him/her.

 

He's a doctor as well as a businessman.

He knows he good and in demand and also knows that few patients would choose to go with someone else after paying $175 (~35 hair strands). But forgets that there's enough competition in the market and this may greatly discourge a lot of potential candidates.

 

I am just doing my research and am not here to defame any doctors. I think his work is truly good but just as "B spot" said...I aint paying no salesman to show me the car.

[John_in_NC]

I admit it's pretty stupid and shortsighted for him to do so. He maybe busy right now and may feel invicible, but others are catching up. Taking 10-15 mintues for a free consultation is good business, you never know when the phone stops ringing. Plus, don't docs have a lot of free time as the techs do the placing of grafts? I think he does it to discourage people shopping around, but this will cause him business.

[the B spot]

I understand your point Jake, but if indeed Dr. Epstein is doing this, then I scratch him off the list of potential docs. EVERYONE knows that you deal primarily with a consultant or patient educator, etc... but that the doctor himself makes time to check you out, talk to you, and give the final yea or nay on what you want versus what he can give you. To assume that a particular Dr. is so busy or has a market cornered is shortsighted and arrogant. We have to remember that they are selling themselves to us as much as we are seeking them out as well. It's Dutch Door Action, it works both ways.

I can tell you the thought of me actually paying to see a doctor that I might drop 6 to 15000 dollars for cosmetic surgery, will NEVER happen, because as I said before, there are better doc's, that can spare time, and don't charge to say hey. Talk about losing touch.......

[Mark H]

I don't see a problem with Dr. Epstein charging for an initial consultation. Its his time, and patients have choices.

 

However, Greg strongly implies that Dr. Epstein didn't take the online consultation seriously, and didn't provide information that would guide him on getting an HT. If so, thats not so good.

 

I did several online consults, and in all cases got an initial response, and follow up responses to questions. The online consult process was excellent.

 

So I see this issue in reverse from most I guess: it seems to me its the online consult that appears to have been shorted here.

 

Maybe this was the exception not the rule for Dr. Epstein. These guys are super busy.

 

mark h

[the B spot]

Mark, I agree, I don't have a problem with him charging a fee for a consult if it is a 2 hr sit down where Dr. Epstein spends precious time away from others, maybe he could hand out an autographed copy of his brochure or something

Anyway, I apologize to everyone for getting so heated about this as it doesn't really apply to me. If someone is stupid enough to pay a doctor for a consult, then good for them. I just think we should remind everyone who asks about this guy, that this is his process.

Thanks Fella's

[Hoping]

Bspot, I couldn't disagree with you more. First of all in defense of Epstein, my first consultation with him was about one year ago and I was pleasantly surprised to find out he did not charge for consultations, at least not then, for his time. He also did not charge for the extra three hundred grafts over and above what he expected to transplant. But that begs the point. All a doctor has to sell is his time. Why would anybody expect a doctor to give his time for free? I suspect Epstein found there were far too many consultations taking his time and not enough people following through. By charging a fee, he cuts back his consultations to those who are serious about hair transplants. If you are going to spend ten K on a transplant, whats the big deal about a small consultation fee? Let me also say that as a lawyer, you would be amazaed at the number of people who think nothing of expecting you to consult with them about their problems for no charge. People love to take advantage when they can and to Epstein's credit he probably got tired of it. It amazes me some of you people actually think you are entitled to a free consultations and to take the doctor's time. The people who feel that way are generally, from my experience, are the most unappreciative and most demanding of all clients. I have never regreted losing the clients who refused to pay an initial consultation fee and I bet Epstein doesn't concern himself either. Bottom line is a hair transplant is not an entitlement and you don't get to demand a doctor's time free of charge. Why you think you should be able to so demand his time is beyond my understanding. To you guys to cheap to pay a consultation fee, nobody is forcing you to get a hair transplant. Live bald and be happy.

[Gorpy]

*

[Mark H]

Hey Gang, The in person consulting fee is not the issue.

 

Greg says he asked for an online consult, and didn't get one. That is the what this is about.

 

If coalition doctors are supposed to provide an online consultation in good faith and it didn't happen, then follow up by Pat may be in order.

 

mark h

[Gorpy]

It's a competitive business. I have never seen a "patient educator" or whatever fancy name they want to give themselves and I don't plan on it in the future. I want the doctor who is going to do the work to consult with me. And I don't want to pay for it. Everything that needs to be determined can be determined in a 30 minute consultation.

 

The point is that it's a business. If he can get away with it then good for him. But if I have a choice to go to an equally good doc that does not charge for a consult, who do you think I'm going to?

[Hoping]

Gorpy, things are never equal. There will always be differences in location, cost, experience, ability and personality between all physicians. Epstein has the luxury of practicing primarily in South Florida, a place with lots of vain people and lots of money, perfect for the product he wants to sell. I'm sure he considered the potential business he would lose and decided that he had enough business so it wouldn't matter, or maybe he got tired of the frustrations of dealing with people who had no compunctions about taking his time without any intention of using his services. I've been there and can understand that feeling. It would seem to me that any person who wants an experienced and professional appraisal of their hair loss, what can be done about it, and wants all of their questions answered should be willing to pay for the service. I am somewhat amazed that so many of these doctors give free consultations. Their not selling houses, they are selling their time. That's all they have to sell. The more time you give away the more it eats into your revenues. And by the way, running my own office, $175 for a consultation barely pays for the overhead.

[hrthr]

OK, here is my 2 cents worth. Its a business and a very good one for these folks. I think the fee is unusual based upon the posts I have seen but again the issues expressed was the online consult (or lack thereof).

[Mark H]

AT LAST!!!! Someone who can get past the 175 bucks long enough to notice that the online consult didn't happen. (according to GregP).

 

mark h

[the B spot]

Mark--- yes I am aware that the online consult did not take place, but I wanted to see if anyone drew the comparision that he was not treated well online, but for 175.00 the doctor would be glad to speak with him at length. A very good point that you raise, to be sure.

Hoping, you certainly are entitled to your opinion, and I am glad that you are willing to spend money for a consultation. HOWEVER, isn't travel or time off work, fee enough? I understand your point and give them equal weight with mine: If you are fine with paying GREAT! If not, GREAT!

I just hope they are not cutting short the online consults in order to get people who pay in the door.

One other point: I have gone with COUNTLESS friends and family to see COSMETIC specialists, lasik surgery, stomach stapling, liposuctions, breast enhancement/reduction, labiaplasty (that one was NOT a family member ) foot surgery, etc.... NOT ONE TIME did I ever see a consult fee, and that includes specialists at Loyola, and U of Chicago.

Again, I apologized for getting a tad heated, and I hope some of you read that BEFORE responding.

[Mark H]

Yes B Spot, the fact that Greg (lets say allegedly at this point) was blown off and THEN offered a 175 buck in-person consult looks like a bait and switch....WHICH BTW I don't think it was. That part will get cleared up by and by, so its key to keep an open mind on the good Doctor and Greg too.

 

Now let me quote from the front page of this forum under consultations:

 

"Our prescreened physicians offer free consultations to help you evaluate all your treatment options, surgical and non surgical."

 

Later in the text it says,

 

"You can also gather advice and feedback from our physicians online by doing a "Virtual Consult"."

 

The above is implicit, coalition doctors do not charge for initial consults...period. Indeed, the online consultation is touted as simply another avenue to get a consultation which is also free.

 

I say implicit not explicit, because the distinction between whether both types of consultations are free is not discreetly made for each type. It just says FREE in the first paragraph, and points out the secondary option of an online consult in the subsequent paragraphs.

 

To further complicate matters, I see nothing in the coalition membership requirements that actually says a member doctor is _obligated_ to give an online consultation. A coalition member could only give free in person consultations and meet the terms as loosely described. That said, it would seem that if you're in the online system that you've made some sort of commitment to the hairlosslearningcenter to give them.

 

In my opinion Dr. Epstein can charge however he pleases and not answer to Pat or us about it...and good luck to him, but either the language on that page needs to be tightened to clarify that free consultations to forum members are online only, or Dr. Epstein should change his policy as a coalition member.

 

And of course there is still the question of whether Greg actually GOT an online consult, because a one-line response asking him to call stretches the definition of consultation in my book.

 

Everything I've heard about Dr. Epstein is that he is one of the jewels in the coalition crown, so for me the 175 bucks is irrelevant beyond contradicting hairlosslearningcenter policy, and again the online consult issue is key for me.

 

I hope Pat responds on these issues soon. He seems to be off somewhere having a life...how dare he...lol.

 

mark h

[Eman]

I agree with B-spot. There should be no consult fee with the amount of time it takes for the doctor to review the patient.

 

To give an example, I tore my ACL last year and saw three orhtopedic surgeons to get their opinions, as I wanted the best orthopedic surgeon available. Not a single doctor charged a consult fee and each sat down with me at length and went over my charts and my options. They knew I was "shopping" around (and encouraged me to do so) and doing thorough research--they knew this and still didn't charge any fee. The cost of my surgery was over $30,000. The doctor easily made their money on the surgery, thus no need for a consult fee. I understand it is the doctor's valuable time, but spending fifteen minutes with a potential patient would not put any doctor in any financial distress.

 

I don't think people go into HT surgeries lightly either and for a doc to give their time allows the patient the chance to decide which doctor best fits their needs. My point is $175 is a drop in the bucket for a doctor, but may not be for a potential patient. I understand wanting to weed out those who are just window shopping, but if someone is serious about having surgery a doc charging a fee will lose a potential patient like myself.

 

There are enough excellent options out there Greg (I have spoken to a few of them) that you can forego any doctor charging this fee.

[Mark H]

Since we can't get past the 175 bucks anytime soon, (apparently many here are scraping by on gov't cheese)...lol...let me say that in my opinion ALL the top notch doctors who do HT's should be charging a consultation fee.

 

An HT isn't a heart transplant, its elective surgery. A consultation fee would weed out the tire-kickers, but amortized into the surgery the cost would be the same.

 

Furthermore, there is a contradiction between singling out the doctors on this site as unique for their artistry and industry, and then insist that their business practices follow the mundane.

 

Personally, I'm going to choose the best doctor, not the cheapest one.

 

mark h

[Guest]

I've had two consults with Dr. E during the last year and was not charged for either. I had my second procedure with him on Tuesday and I was treated great. I'm sure there is an expalination regarding this, there are always two sides of a story and we should not pass judgement after only hearing only one side.....