Mark H

I agree Bill, based on what I've read here. Also, I specifically asked Dr. Cooley if I might shed more, or grow more slowly because I'm older than some other patients, and he said not necessarily, and that you simply can't predict except in the most general terms. mark

The other gentlemen make excellent points: there is a difference between shedding and shock loss, even if temporarily the result appears the same. I happen to be at the 2 month mark as of yesterday myself. I had about 4100 grafts done. I had some serious shedding up through 6 weeks, but between 6 weeks and 2 months that appears to be all done in my case. I don't think its entirely luck: I've been using minox not just in the vertex, but across my entire HT, and I've also been on a regimen of copper peptides, which have shown promise in shortening Telogen (the hair resting state). And of course I'm on Propecia. The above three treatments however are going to help with shedding, not so much with shock loss, although I suppose I might have saved a traumatized hair or two. The best way to feel good about potential shock loss is to reflect on who your doctor is. I have Dr. Cooley, a doctor of the highest reputation, and someone whom I trust to avoid transection or excessive trauma that might be caused by slower healing and larger incisions. Having the best doctor has helped me cross the HT desert to this point, although some here can tell you that even with the advantages I've had, I sank into a brown study only recently. That was thankfully brief. mark

thanks guys. I'll post 2 month pics tomorrow night. I had my wife take some today, but they didn't come out well...no wonder I'm divorcing her. anyway, I think what you'll see is that at 2 months I actually show more growing hair than I had pre HT, but unfortunately its very spindly at this point, and also very white...almost clear...so I'm not sure it really looks like more...or even as much. Coloring my hair will help, and I've decided to do that at the 2.5 month mark in early december, so that I can also start using toppik again. Its been tough slogging. thx for the support! mark

I'd be interested too on exploring Robert's notion that the body acclimates and the dose needs to be increased. that's new information to me. mark

Daniel you're preaching to the choir, but another voice is always welcome. The doctor you chose, is part of a coalition recommended by this site. These coalition doctors are part of a small cadre of doctors that represent the cutting edge in HT's. You did your research well, but believe me, if you'd found this site first, your job might have been easier. We don't hear much of Dr. Charles on here though, and its good to get specific feedback on him. Your HT was smaller than many of the mega sessions we hear about here. Perhaps you'd like to start a hair blog by clicking above and sharing your story in more detail. welcome! mark

What you're saying Hairbank makes a lot of sense. Dr's Wong, and Cooley wouldn't be recommending a lesser dose willy nilly. These are sober professionals, and in fact Dr. Cooley put it to me just as Dr. Wong put it to you. It keeps DHT levels down for 72 hours. I take it Tues, Fri, Sun, so I only have one three day stretch, but it allows me to have specific days I take it...easier to remember. mark

It is my understanding...traditionally anyway, that if your grandfather on your Mother's side was bald, you have a higher likelihood of becoming so yourself. Now as it happens, both of my grandfather's had full heads of hair, and I began to bald more seriously in my late 40's. I'm actually more concerned about the fact that they both dropped over dead in their early 50's, and my Mother had a heart attack in her early 50's as well)...oh, and I'm 52. That however is another story, but I relate it to point out that heredity is a funny thing. You never know what's swimming around in that gene pool. As for sexual side effects on Propecia: I've been taking it for a few months, and yes I think its impeding me a little bit, but nothing that Viagra doesn't punch right through, if you'll pardon the expression...heh heh heh...oh...ahem...anyway, most apparently don't have that problem if they stick it out past a few months, and Propecia is a long term thing. Now at your tender age I wouldn't take anything yet. Just keep and eye on it and stay informed. You'll know what to do and when. mark

Thanks Bill, Having a terrific doctor like Dr. Cooley has meant that I haven't suffered the kinds of doubts that some have when they come on here and wonder if Dr. so-and-so was the right choice. I did my research BEFORE my HT. But...I'm human, and its not easy looking like a steaming pile of poo in the interim, so I appreciate the encouragement. mark

Salt, I REALLY appreciated your note. I was just expressing to Robert on another thread, that my current appearance is really starting to weigh on me negatively, even tho (as I think you'll see) I'm actually beginning to sprout a little at 2 months. thx!

I've been nervous about coloring JW, so even tho I'm past the point where most doctor's feel its safe, I'm holding off a bit longer. I'm trying to hold out until nearly 3 months, so that I may actually have some significant growth to color. mark

Vijay, there's a link right at the top of this page that says, "Coalition Doctors". Doctor Cooley's information is in there. There are other fine doctors in the coalition, but you can't go wrong with Dr. Cooley, full stop. BTW: I'll be updating this thread and my blog on Thursday, since that will be the two month mark for me. cheers, mark

Yes its true that doctor doesn't get as much play as some here, but he has a fine reputation. It isn't clear to me that he is doing the larger sessions that some are. I live near Chicago, but finally chose Dr. Cooley in NC, because he is cutting edge, has a superior resume, and while he doesn't do quite as large a session as H&W, he's moving more in that direction. mark

If H&W and Dr. Cooley are on the same page, that's good enough for me. mark

I do appreciate the danger, and that it appears to be growing. I've bought online before with good results, and with an online consult, but I have to admit I'm a bit twitchy about doing it now. mark

thx for that Robert, I don't consider myself a particularly moody person, but I went in to my lawyer's the other day, and in the middle of the discussion he asked me if I was 65 (I'm 52). So I had to reply, "no, I'm 52, I just apparently _look_ 65" Its true too. looking fairly bald is tremendously aging, and add to that that my hair is gray because I just don't dare color it right now. Plus my skin looked terrible. Thanks to Dr. Cooley's help, and some additional work online, my skin is starting to look younger. I'm also hitting the gym hard, so I intend to have a coming out party around late January. In a few months then, I intend to turn into a butterfly, but just at the moment, I'm a pretty ugly-ass caterpillar, and I think its affecting me negatively, so without retracting my opinions, I'm not entirely pleased with how I stated them. Enough about me tho. I've wanted to keep Dr. Cooley's name out of my part of the discussion as much as possible, because he intends to write a paper for his learned journal, and he wanted me to be discreet. However, the cat is out of the bag somewhat. I do believe my points about H&W are valid, and I get the impression they simply focus deeply on the mechanics of HT's, which is why they've excelled, and even pioneered in that area. I think a more holistic approach might benefit patients. On Folligen's claims: Man, I'm here to tell you, the spray I got is STRONG stuff compared to my original post-op stuff. Its like using Scott's Turf Builder on your head. I was reading your older thread on Dermatch. I've got Toppik here myself, which is kind of a dead loss at the moment with gray hair, and not much of any hair to put it on (although I'm going to post 2 month progress Wed. which I'm fairly happy with)...if you can call bald happy. What is more, I'm puzzling on how I might fit toppik or Dermatch into a regiment that includes Minox AM and PM, and CP's several hours before I put on my PM Minox. As it is, with my hair short, the foam takes a while to work in, and can leave my hair a bit hard, although not really greasy as the other liquid did. I'd appreciate your tips, and where you're going to go with this. I've pointed out that since CP's are a turf builder more than a new hair grower, that long term I may not use it, and indeed, it may be inconvenient to have green hair in the afternoon if I rejoin the work force. cheers, mark

OTOH, if you purchase Viagra online, you may get ripped off, but you will know for sure fairly quickly....maybe as early as 15 minutes. mark

CL, I don't know the answer to this, accept that it probably depends who you buy it online from. I assume you're talking about one of these online establishments that will give you and online consultation, prescribe, and then sell. I've had good luck with those in the past, but have heard rumors of others that are selling watered down or fake medicine. Let me know if you know a dependable source. mark

Dr. Cooley has suggested Jake et al, that Popecia stays at high levels in the blood stream for as much as 72 hours. I don't know where you're getting a 5-6 hour half life from...a term usually used for radioactive isotopes. The reason dosage recommendations haven't been reduced is that the FDA has already approved the daily dosage, and its unlikely that the drug company will petition to have it lowered. if you really want to save money, cut Proscar in 1/4's and then take every other day. I actually take it 3 times a week, so that only one stretch uses the 72 hours, but allows me a stable schedule. mark

Okay boys and girls, I'm partially decaffeinated, so this may go a little better. I don't know what the hell happened to me earlier, maybe my period has come early. No worries okay Bill? I'm old and I get cranky. Now with that finally out of the way... I appreciated Jo's response, it clarifies some things. It should be put in perspective as a professional medical opinion, based on empirical observation and not scientific data. That's not to denigrate it, the opposing professional opinion that I'm working from operates I believe from the same perspective, although unlike H&W it acknowledges current positive research, and of course its empirical data contradicts. That is why I tip slightly in favor of CP's, that and the plain fact that I want it to work...nothing scientific there of course. There are a couple of issues that still bother me. The first one is the issue of infection. How real an issue is this? I've never yet read on this board of a single case that I'm aware of and as Jo acknowledges it is not the reason they don't recommend CP's, so why bring it up? The second one is that I'm particularly interested in CP's in conjunction with the usage of Minoxidil. There is potentially a synergistic effect. That could be said for Propecia as well, but I focus on Minoxidil here because it too is topical, and one may aid the other. Jo doesn't make clear if his experience involved both, and if so whether it was all used across the entire HT. Finally, the administration of a Full Metal Jacket approach to post op care is most intriguing to me. The desire is that Telogen could be significantly reduced by a disipline involving Minoxidil, Propecia, CP's, and Nizoral. The end result being a significantly shorter fasting period post op. I said from the start that it isn't clear to me that CP's are worth it long term. So far the science says CP's make hair grow faster by shortening Telogen. On a side note, the Folligen line claims to have 9.0 times more copper peptides per ounce than concentrated Graftcyte and 31.8 times more copper peptides per ounce than Tricomin. Of course, the fact that I don't know the truth of the above is part of the reason for this thread, and I thank those who've been contributing to it, and again hope they'll pardon my rashness. One final note: When it comes to dating, you may get turned down, but if you don't ask, you're not in the game. The same goes for CP's: the only thing you can be certain of, is that if you don't use them, they won't do anything for you. mark

Okay Bill, let me cut back on my sugar intake, pull myself off the ceiling and offer a more civilized response. First, no disrespect to you, and apologies for sounding so snippy. However, I AM frustrated with this third hand response from H&W. What I'm looking at is your opinion, of Jotronics opinion, of H&W's opinion of something called "healing products". So, without actually responding themselves, and without actually addressing the specific issue of CP's, and without explaining why they apparently contradict current research, they've come down against CP usage. Now, having acknowledged that I've floated off the deep end in how I framed my objections earlier, my Automatic Shock Proof S**t Detector is still beeping loudly. H&W's opinion does count, but with all due respect, I don't think we've got one from them yet on CP's. And now if you'll excuse me, I'm due at the Betty Ford clinic. mark

I can't help thinking Dr. Hasson simply hasn't looked into it, and his answer is just a blow off. It isn't reasonable to contradict all available research with a: "I don't believe it". Thats not good enough. As for infection, not buying it. I used it right after my HT. No harm. I'm calling B******t on the good doctor on this one

In that case, I'll be the one to confess that the loss of 3 inches would turn me into a period instead of an exclamation point. However, I can report that empirically at least, I've lost no length. Of course I no longer give a s**t about girls, but you can't have everything can you. Oh BTW B spot, I now have a custom avatar....nanner nanner nanner! mark

Robert, do report back on what this stuff is like okay? I'm using the therapy spray and I go to bed each night with a head that looks like Tru Green treated it. I'm still working that issue, and I'm getting better at it. On the science.I haven't seen anything that contradicts positive outcome, and that is key to me. Has anyone seen a negative result? One negative scientific (not anecdotal) result would be enough to at least give me pause. I research cholesterol lowering nutriceuticals (foods that naturally lower cholesterol) some work, and some don't, and there is no shortage of flim flams, so I like lots of data. In this case the number of studies appears to be thin but positive, (I'd like to see 25 please) all positive. However uncontradicted evidence combined with some respected authority is enough for me to spend my money at this point. If I was dying, and someone said, heres a vaccine that may cure, but so far only 5 studies say you'll be cured. Should I say, "screw that. Lets wait for the rest of the scientific commmunity to weigh in. Oh, and if its too late for me, leave a dose on my headstone, there's a good fellow." Now Bill's statement about possible infection gave me pause (or paws if you like) but even tho I'm a layman, how much infection are we seeing post op, eh? I haven't heard of a single case, so what is that about? That one sounds a little lame, although I say it myself(who does'nt know s*** from shinola). At worst it appears that CP's do no harm...so far anyway. BTW, don't worry about me getting a life yet Robert. I'm not quite two months, but in two more months I aim to grow me some babe catchers, then I could get a little busy . mark

Thanks Bill. I've actually fallen behind on some reading and posting here...positive signs that I may be on the verge of having a life. Have no fear tho. I'm not leaving the baldy enclave anytime soon. right now I need support, and later i plan on being one of the smug b****rds with hair lording it over the balding noobs. PS: how do you like the custom avatar? Well of course its a logo actually. I had it made for myself when I worked at Netscape and changed the N to an M. mark h

A pros po of nothing, can someone tell me how to add an avatar. Everyone else has a funny picture but me. Okay maybe not everyone, but still... I'm feeling very left out mark