Dr Umar patient cdnla310, 1850 graft FUE -6 month update

[Dr. Sanusi Umar]

This patient had introduced his surgery on this thread several months ago. His result at 6 months is hereby presented in video

 

 

Previous thread started by cdnla310 soon after his surgery

 

 

 

A soft hairline was created using Nape hair. The

[Dr. Sanusi Umar]

This patient had introduced his surgery on this thread several months ago. His result at 6 months is hereby presented in video

 

 

Previous thread started by cdnla310 soon after his surgery

 

 

 

A soft hairline was created using Nape hair. The

[something]

Very nice results for being six months out.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I love the idea of nape hair but isnt there a good chance that the hair will eventually miniaturize ? Looks good so far .

[Dr. Sanusi Umar]

PGP,

 

That is a good question. .

 

I have been using nape hair in suitably qualified patients in the past 2 years to be precise. The ability to use nape hair (Like BHT) is another advantage of FUE over strip surgery, since these areas are realistically harvested only by minimally invasive methods which as of today means and FUE-type technique.

 

 

 

Nape hair is a little bit trickier to extract intact, hence clinics/doctors contemplating it should note that certain nuances do apply. Nape hair is more delicate and subject to damage if the procedure is not nuanced to account for this.

 

 

 

 

Here are some grown results from the past that have been featured in one form or the other on this forum:

 

 

 

1. Done exactly 2 years ago:

http://dermhairclinic.com/dhc_galdetail.aspx?id=8">http://dermhairclinic.com/dhc_galdetail.aspx?id=8

 

 

2. Atticus: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=144218]Atticus

 

3. Hooray for hair; Hooray for hair

 

4. Schmoe

 

 

In the coming months, more cases would be posted from my clinic depicting the compelling advantages of using nape hair for hair line refinement.

 

 

 

Advantages of Nape hair:

 

1. The best hair for the creation of soft less detectable hairlines

 

2. It adds to the donor supply, hence saving the traditional donor areas to meet the recipient demand On the average about 600-900 grafts can be obtained form the nape area and the 1cm wide area immediately adjacent to the ears

 

 

 

After taking nape hair from a variety of demographic groups, African American, Asian, caucasians, it is emerging that the nape area heals remarkably well.

 

 

 

 

 

IS IT SAFE?

 

 

 

This is were patient selection comes in. Observation would confirm that contrary to untested statements, nape hair is not always lost in baldness. In fact most bald men would retain their nape hair while some would even experience an increase in that hair. Patients who would go on to loose their nape hair often are the type that would develop very severe baldness, and if BHT or hair multiplication cannot be counted on, these group of patients should not be ideal candidates for hair transplantation in the first place. Such patients tend to manifest nape hair thinning that is often evident even at an early age. Here is an example of a patient that has nape hair thinning that visited me for body beard and head hair hybrid transplantation a few months ago. He had undergone strip surgery at another clinic couple of years prior. This patient should not have undergone transplantation using head hair by strip to begin with given the extent of his hair loss if BHT or hair multiplication cannot be counted upon.

 

 

 

 

A young Man (Early 30s) showing marked nape thinning:

 

 

 

 

 

The thinning nape area (to be avoided) demarcated:

 

 

 

 

The nape are is avoided, while the wreath area is harvested:

 

 

 

 

I would be writting about nape hair in transplantation in due course.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards

 

 

 

Originally posted by PLEASE GROW PLEASE:

I love the idea of nape hair but isnt there a good chance that the hair will eventually miniaturize ? Looks good so far .

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Thanks for replying. If nape hair does stick around I see it as being a huge step in a truly natural hairline. Those soft litle hairs can make a huge difference , just like having the temple points reconstructed.

I see a ton of great transplants that are lacking one of the two.

[uncjim]

Dr. Umar,

With all due respect (and I do respect your work..greatly) your playing with fire by harvesting nape hair. This area is more prone to MPB, I have no doubt, and I don't believe one can accurately predict the future. My Dad (now in his late eighties) had plentiful nape hair well into his forties and possibly his fifties. I remember it well as he had a distinct patch of gray there. It's now gone. The remainder of his fringe hair today is quite thick. Viewing these images bothers me greatly.

UNC

[uncjim]

The lack of feedback here is deafening.

[Guest]

Uncjim, just a thought..

Is it possible that your dad was not the norm, so to speak?

Naturally, I haven't looked into any of this, research-wise, but perhaps the majority of people DO show signs of nape hair thinning, just like they show signs of MPB, earlier, rather than later, in life.

And it's these signs that Dr Umar looks for, as per his above examples.

Eg If the patient shows signs of nape hair thinning (only revealed succesfully by shaving down the head to compare densities) then he won't use their nape hair in a transplant.

I understand what you're saying, and your dad is a good example, but perhaps he's one of the lucky/unusual ones.

Just a thought.

All the best

 

H f H

[uncjim]

H f H,

Thanks for taking note of what I consider a subject that shouldn't be ignored. Here are my thoughts.

 

Certainly, the quality of nape hair is ideal for a transplanted hairline, as it affords a softer transition than hair higher up on the head. It's tempting for that reason. If it wasn't considered risky though, it would be used all the time. Docs that don't possess a technique for harvesting it, would develop one. The safe zone is hallowed ground for a reason and that's why most docs respect it.

 

As for my Dad not being the norm, I can't really say. What I do know is that I've observed a lot of older guys (I'm kind of one of them..if ya' know what I mean) and I do see a general thinning in the nape area.

Jim

[Sofarsogood]

Greetings uncjim,

 

"Docs that don't possess a technique for harvesting it, would develop one."

 

The strip clinics want to keep the status quo going. Some docs will never learn FUE. Many will retire never having tried it.

 

"The safe zone is hallowed ground for a reason and that's why most docs respect it."

 

IMO, most strip docs "respect" their "safe zone" because they can't do FUE/BHT. It's a good scare tactic to justify continuing cutting up the scalp like a pizza to treat MPB. This is no longer necessary in 2008.

 

A few more points to consider:

 

1. The "safe zone" was derived before FUE/BHT was discovered. With new techniques, the old "safe zone" does not really apply (except inside the horseshoe pattern). Of course strip docs will want to scare people into sticking to that 50 year old, hand drawn, chart. Lol.

 

2. By staying inside the so-called "safe zone", a higher NW patient should never get a strip HT. There won't be enough head-hair donor to cover the real estate down the road. The patient will always look odd with severe hairloss no matter how many head-hair grafts are placed.

 

3. It takes more skill to harvest nape hair. It tends to grow in different directions. The hair is finer than head-hair. There is no way to harvest it using strip. Hence, the strip clinics will want to scare folks away from it (just like BHT and beard hair).

 

4. In my family at least, the older men have TONS of nape hair and very little head hair. They also tend to have lots of body hair in places they don't want it, lol. My 92 year old grandfather (NW6+) had his nape hair trimmed right up until the end. I think it's safe to say that if one has a hairy back, the nape hair will stay in place, lol. Just my opinion.

 

5. A good doctor can shave the nape area and measure the hair density compared to other areas of the head and decide what is best for the patient.

 

Some nape hair shots from the web:

 

Shaved:

 

Nape hair city (looks like he could be in my family, lol):

 

Most guys shave their nape hair:

 

All time funniest nape hair (well, maybe Robin Williams is #1):

 

I'd like to see a picture of receded nape hair.

I'm sure it exists but it seems to me most guys nape hair gets thicker as their head hair goes bye-bye. Just like their ear hair. Lol.

 

Peace out.

[Jotronic]

Sofarsogood,

 

 

"IMO, most strip docs "respect" their "safe zone" because they can't do FUE/BHT. It's a good scare tactic to justify continuing cutting up the scalp like a pizza to treat MPB.."

 

Relative to the subject at hand, this has to be one of the most ridiculous statements you've ever made. How is it in your logic that strip doctors haven't ventured into the nape in order to "justify" anything? If strip docs were the greedy money mongers that you portray them to be they would have tried selling nape hair no matter what technique is used. Doesn't THAT make more sense for a money grubber?

 

 

"By staying inside the so-called "safe zone", a higher NW patient should never get a strip HT. There won't be enough head-hair donor to cover the real estate down the road. The patient will always look odd with severe hairloss no matter how many head-hair grafts are placed."

 

Me before as a NW6 PLUS! By "plus" I mean I had no parietal humps reaching out onto the top of my scalp. 99% of the hair you see on top are old mini grafts, 300 of them, grown long for "coverage".

 

 

If you want more, I have PLENTY of other patients with high NW levels that according to you must "look odd".

 

Now, let's move on to nape hair specifically. It's miniaturized, so it's GREAT for the hairline, yes? Has anyone stopped to think why it's miniaturized? Because perhaps it's being affected by DHT?

 

"I'd like to see a picture of receded nape hair."

 

Here you go. We got this pic from a gentleman that had strip in the nape area for exactly the same reasons why you and your doctor state that it's IDEAL. It's fine so it MUST be the best for the hairline, right? Wrong, this patient's nape hair has all but fizzled as has his hairline along with it. If memory serves he has about three hairs in his hairline now, less than ten years after these "ideal" hairs were placed there.

 

 

 

All of this discussion about nape hair can continue but I think it is only acceptable by newbies that do not know any better. Veterans and even more so doctors should HIGHLY discourage the mere notion of nape hair because "pending cases in the future" are just that, pending and in the future. They are not in the here nor in the now and they never will be. That is why to date all of the clinics that make the statement that nape hair is ideal have yet to really produce any results that justify the use of nape hair. To use your analogy, Sofar, the prospect of nape hair by FUE clinics is used to "justify" racking up the final bill at the end of the day.

[Sofarsogood]

Hi Joe,

 

I seem to have hit a nerve in the strip community.

Sorry to be the bull in the China Shop.

 

Respectfully, I'd like to make a few more points.

 

You are a very well known, knowledgeable and respected professional in the HT industry.

 

With all due respect, I understand why you would jump to defend H&W.

You work with them and have benefited from their well executed strip procedures.

 

You look great. Love the highlights. ; )

But, IMO, you are (were) NOT an extreme NW6/7+.

Your before "fringe" was very "tall" and "wide" and thick looking.

Can we see a before pic of the back of your head? Thanks.

 

IMO, only the very extreme hairloss cases are at risk of loosing nape hair over time.

Even then, there are some extremely bald people in my family that still have their nape hair.

 

This is what I'm talking about:

Would H&W touch this NW pattern?

 

Any NW7+ who engages solely in strip procedures is making a mistake.

NW7 strip cases just don't look natural, IMO.

 

What could a strip clinic do for Patrick Steward, Bruce Willis or Peter Boyle?

Maybe ruin their careers and possibly make them a laughingstock. Nick Cage anyone?

 

 

You and I have both benefited from strip.

 

However, if I were starting out today, I'd go FUE all the way (with the right doc).

 

In 2008, the FUE results from certain clinics look to have about the same yield as the top strip clinics, IMO.

It is not 2005. FUE/BHT has arrived.

 

Why risk a stretched scar(s) from ear-to-ear you must accept forever?

Oh yeah, Dr. Umar could fix it later if it stretches. Lol.

But I don't expect we'll agree on this and that's ok.

 

I'm sure you will acknowledge that many strip procedures have failed over the past 20 years.

No medical procedure is free from failure.

As you know, there are many factors that can negatively effect graft yield.

 

This patient had plugs and a strip taken from the "safe-zone" with poor growth:

 

Looks to me as though the gentleman in the photo you posted has plenty of nape hair trimmed down.

I don't see the scar in his nape area from the strip.

And you don't show the hairline with the "3 nape hairs growing".

Strange example.

 

If a patient's nape hair isn't growing in his hairline after some unknown clinic took a STRIP FROM HIS NAPE (geeesh)... well... I have no faith in their methods (or ethics). There are many reasons why such a transplant wouldn't grow.

 

Thanks for taking the time to post your professional opinion.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on some points.

 

Bottom line for me:

 

H&W do great strip procedures.

But with the advancements in FUE and BHT, the sky is the limit.

 

1. Extreme repairs are doable.

2. One truly can "keep up with his hairloss" using FUE/BHT.

3. One can sport a true buzz cut with FUE/BHT.

4. Temples can be rebuilt without tapping head hair.

5. Hairlines can look more natural with BHT.

6. No smiley face scar from ear-to-ear for life.

7. Even NW6/7s have a fighting chance.

 

Balding brothers 10 years younger than us (or more) want to be able to buzz their hair.

Some just want the stubble look all over.

Others want the crew cut option.

Or a mohawk haircut (try that with strip).

 

Strip would be a hindrance for this generation, IMO.

 

The future is now!

Research FUE/BHT.

 

Peace,

josh

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Josh (sofarsogood),

It's obvious that you are happy with your FUE procedure and support your doctor. That's good, but there are undeniable issues with FUE that you should consider before pitching strip surgery overboard.

 

On paper FUE seems like a viable alternative to strip surgery, but the past 6 years have proved otherwise.

 

The number one problem with FUE is growth yield. It is simply lower than that of strip. The reason for this is an obvious one. The level of trauma FUE grafts experience is much higher than for strip grafts.

 

There are three detrimental FUE forces:

1. Torsion

2. Traction

3. Compression

No matter who performs the FUE procedure and no matter what instrumentation is utilized, there three forces are always working AGAINST the FUE doctor and patient.

When these forces are minimized or eliminated, then FUE will be on par with strip. To date, no one has produced such tools or techniques nor expressely claimed to do so. Perhaps someday, but not today.

 

Again, on paper it seems that FUE will allow for a significantly broader harvest of hair such as hair outside the "safe zones" and even body hair. But bodyhair in general has proved to offer, at best, mild improvements. And that's after massive effort and cost. It is not, nor has it yet been shown,to be any kind of alternative to scalp hair.

 

Nape of the neck hair really should not be harvested. Again, on paper it seems like a good idea, but on closer inspection it really is unadvisable. Nape hair is thin because the body PURPOSEFULLY weakened it. As a weakened follicle it will not, and does not, transplant and grow well. It is the same problem with body hair.

 

Strip doctors don't harvest from the nape because they can't, or because it will leave a nasty scar (it will), but because the hair itself is general not recommended for transplant.

 

There are some people with VERY thick nape hair and it is THESE exceptions that make FUE a superior technique over strip. However, such patients tend to have wonderful donor area and so invasion of the nape is rarely required.

 

FUE is a great procedure, but it is still a limited one. As a practitioner of both procedures I still believe FUE is not ready for "prime time" in anyones hands to date.

 

When FUE doctors show a regular flow of mega-FUE/BHT results that are on par with strip surgery, then and only then will we know that this procedure has "arrived". But as long as FUE proponents wrongfully villify strip and their practitioners as a means to advance their cause, they will only erode the little credibility FUE has gained over the years and confuse the public.

 

Dr. Feller

[wylie]

Originally posted by Dr. Alan Feller:

Josh (sofarsogood),

It's obvious that you are happy with your FUE procedure and support your doctor. That's good, but there are undeniable issues with FUE that you should consider before pitching strip surgery overboard.

 

On paper FUE seems like a viable alternative to strip surgery, but the past 6 years have proved otherwise.

 

The number one problem with FUE is growth yield. It is simply lower than that of strip. The reason for this is an obvious one. The level of trauma FUE grafts experience is much higher than for strip grafts.

 

There are three detrimental FUE forces:

1. Torsion

2. Traction

3. Compression

No matter who performs the FUE procedure and no matter what instrumentation is utilized, there three forces are always working AGAINST the FUE doctor and patient.

When these forces are minimized or eliminated, then FUE will be on par with strip. To date, no one has produced such tools or techniques nor expressely claimed to do so. Perhaps someday, but not today.

 

Again, on paper it seems that FUE will allow for a significantly broader harvest of hair such as hair outside the "safe zones" and even body hair. But bodyhair in general has proved to offer, at best, mild improvements. And that's after massive effort and cost. It is not, nor has it yet been shown,to be any kind of alternative to scalp hair.

 

Nape of the neck hair really should not be harvested. Again, on paper it seems like a good idea, but on closer inspection it really is unadvisable. Nape hair is thin because the body PURPOSEFULLY weakened it. As a weakened follicle it will not, and does not, transplant and grow well. It is the same problem with body hair.

 

Strip doctors don't harvest from the nape because they can't, or because it will leave a nasty scar (it will), but because the hair itself is general not recommended for transplant.

 

There are some people with VERY thick nape hair and it is THESE exceptions that make FUE a superior technique over strip. However, such patients tend to have wonderful donor area and so invasion of the nape is rarely required.

 

FUE is a great procedure, but it is still a limited one. As a practitioner of both procedures I still believe FUE is not ready for "prime time" in anyones hands to date.

 

When FUE doctors show a regular flow of mega-FUE/BHT results that are on par with strip surgery, then and only then will we know that this procedure has "arrived". But as long as FUE proponents wrongfully villify strip and their practitioners as a means to advance their cause, they will only erode the little credibility FUE has gained over the years and confuse the public.

 

Dr. Feller

 

Spot on Dr. Feller. I do think that the three extraction variables, coupled with knowledge on how to minimize these forces, may elevate FUE into something near the level of consistency you might find in a strip procedure, but its still unlikely, mathematically speaking, that the yield would be consistently as high as strip could be, ever. Even in the best of hands.

 

And there are precious few hands who can achieve consistent results, which means less practice by HT doctors = less ability from the larger surgical community as a whole to deliver excellent results. I hope that others begin to practice it more. It is, then, a question of who is willing to practice this procudure regularly to get there, and I really appreciate those willing to step from the established borders and attempt FUE on a regular basis.

 

For those unable to deliver, though, the patient now faces a money wasting disappointment, and signals a whole new set of issues to consider when choosing a doctor for FUE.

[Sofarsogood]

"But bodyhair in general has proved to offer, at best, mild improvements."

 

Respectfully, I can't let this comment stand in 2008.

This is just plain wrong and misleading in Dr. Umar's case.

Please tell that to these extreme repair patients of Dr. Umar that no honest strip doc would touch...

 

[url=

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[url=

]

 

Mild improvement? P l e a s e.

Watch the videos folks.

 

Without BHT/FUE by Dr. Umar, these patients would be walking around as living proof that "traditional" HT surgery can go horribly wrong.

There seems to be no end to repair patients.

 

Anyway,

 

Reasons why strip docs don't want to abandon strip for a less evasive procedure with comparable results:

 

1. Multiple strip procedures can be performed in a day. At my old clinic, one strip doc went from room to room juggling 3 or 4 patients at the same time. 20,000 $trip grafts in a day?

 

2. FUE requires much more time, greater skill and tons of practice.

 

3. Retraining of the staff is costly and time consuming.

 

Regarding nape hair,

 

Dr. Umar has clearly documented at least 3 cases this year where nape hair is growing well and creating a soft hairline.

 

Patients destined to be a NW7 (who MIGHT loose their nape hair over time) should not get a HT in the first place. It will not look natural over time, maybe freakish even.

 

Strip patients with their hair grown out and styled perfectly (me included) may look great now, but if they recede to a NW7+ will look unnatural (at best) without expanding the donor source.

 

In 2005, arguments about the inconsistency of FUE/BHT were understandable.

However in 2008, clearly some docs are getting excellent results with FUE/BHT.

 

Spex is a good example of this (FUE).

As is Hooray For Hair (FUE/nape).

Atticus (FUE/nape).

Schome (FUE/nape).

Sofar (BHT)

and

Especially all the repair cases Dr. Umar has presented in video (FUE/BHT/beard hair grafts).

 

 

Here is what strip clinics don't show their patients...

 

 

Reality check (and this is a clean example of strip surgery).

Shall I find a "messy" one?

 

If FUE can deliver similar (or equal) results at a competitive price, why do this to yourself folks?

 

Shall we watch this in video form?

Hold on to your lunches.

 

A video will be posted if necessary to further make the point.

 

I WAS NEVER shown this type of honest documentation of a strip procedure when I jumped in to the chair.

I wonder how many strip clinics show their prospective patients this before getting them to sign on the dotted line?

 

Now that would be the responsible thing to do.

 

Hippocratic Oath anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

 

Please read this and tell me again why HT docs don't abandon strip in 2008?

 

Thanks.

[Bill - Seemiller]

In my opinion, I believe that FUE is a viable option for some but have not seen any FUE results that have been as impressive and strip surgeries performed by top physicians.

 

As Dr. Feller has stated, there are 3 additional forces placed on the hair follicle that could potentially damage the graft, increasing the risk of transection and lower growth yield if not performed very carefully. Some surgeons (including Dr. Feller) believe that not everyone is a candidate for FUE. Most people here know Bverotti and he has shown some impressive larger session FUE results from Dr. De Reys. But even he admitted on the phone that he will not exceed 5000 grafts with FUE in a lifetime except for very rare exceptions, let alone a single surgery. Personally, I think this is good practice.

 

SoFarSoGood,

 

Your experience is certainly valid and I'm pleased you are happy with your results. But other than less than a handful of exception cases, I have yet to see regular FUE sessions that can match the results of strip surgery in an elite surgeon's hands.

 

By the way, take a look at Joe's pictures again. He was clearly a NW6+/7.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Sofarsogood,

 

Your posting style is much more like a clinical representative selling FUE using strip scare tactics than only a satisfied patient. If you work for Dr. Umar or another clinic, I expect you to follow the rules by putting your affiliation with your clinic in your signature according to our terms of service.

 

I think most would argue that the two cases presented by Dr. Umar are tremendous improvements however, the question isn't regarding these two cases, it's about BHT overall.

 

Dr. Umar had performed over 150 BHT cases. Yet to date, only a few cases of successful BHT are presented online. You have to realize that for people to start accepting BHT (or even FUE) as the "norm", people have to see consistency.

 

Educated patients are completely aware of the strip harvesting process. The first picture in the red X isn't even applicable anymore since most elite surgeons have moved to a single blade (some still use a double, but not a multi-blade).

 

There are many satisfied strip patients here including me who still have a very thin, fine scar, even after 3 hair transplants. There is a much fewer supply of satisfied FUE patients.

 

You are entitled to your opinion regarding FUE and BHT, but until more evidence can be provided that either are superior or even equal with strip, you will have a hard time convincing anyone.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[thanatopsis_awry]

"The strip clinics want to keep the status quo going"

 

So Feller, Hasson, Wong, Shapiro, Alexander, et. al. are statists that are resistant to evolutionary improvement and innovation? And, I suppose, in turn, Armani is some fantastic progressive embracing change?

 

"In 2008, the FUE results from certain clinics look to have about the same yield as the top strip clinics"

 

Which? And if you could show grown out examples of their respective work in cases comparable to strip -- preferable with some 2k's, 3k's, 4k's.

 

You also mention that another reason why aforementioned strip doctors are opposed to FUE is so they can be greedy bastards and pump out more cases in a day (nevermind price differences between FUE and strip to begin with, which has a vast discrepency in some cases); well, as far as I know, Feller, H&W, Shapiro, etc. do not "pump out" multiple cases in a single day. Moreover, if we were to talk about doctors milking people for $, would it not stand to reason that they would be in the FUE-realm, with robust pricing, and offering a "revolutionary", "modern", "state of the art" procedure?

 

Your pics of the strip procedure, despite their starkness, are nothing new and you showing them smacks of really simple fearmongering. For what its worth, FUE (which causes far more trauma, fyi) is no Monet to look at -- thousands of holes punched into somones scalp....?

 

I am truly sorry you got butchered, which I am guessing you did to some extent, and if you were making such declarations to me in private, or to a group of people, I most likely would not say a word, but I can't help but speak up when I see potentially harmful information being spread onto an open landscape.

[Sofarsogood]

Hi Bill,

 

If I could make a decent living posting on the internet, I'd consider it.

I'd have more time with my 2 year old son.

 

Until then, it's just a time consuming hobby.

 

Single blade?

Milti-blade?

 

IMO, makes no difference when illustrating what the strip procedure entails.

 

IMO, FUE consistency has been documented by a handful of clinics in the last few years and more and more BHT cases are being documented every day.

 

To engage in strip in 2008 is unnecessary, IMO.

 

You may have a thin scar now but what about the future?

 

I can't tell you how may posts I've seen in the last few years by unhappy strip patients. Scars many times stretch. That's a fact. Some are wide even soon after surgery.

 

I'm very happy you are happy, but many of us cannot buzz our hair now after strip surgery.

 

"Educated patients are completely aware of the strip harvesting process."

 

Yes, but the newbies are not.

Is this forum for "educated patients" only to go in circles? Or to educate the newbies considering an HT looking for the best, state-of-the art solution to their hairloss?

 

There is so much strip promotion here, I am providing another perspective as a veteran patient.

 

I'm searching for a video that honestly shows a strip procedure in progress. For a doc to hide this reality is unethical, IMO.

 

I find it interesting how pro-strip this forum is.

Why is that?

 

All the usual strip promoters have jumped on this thread. Very telling.

 

Here's an analogy...

 

My father had his prostrate removed this year. He was told that he could go the traditional scalpel route (loose about 2 pints of blood and have a scar) or the robotic surgery route (lose 2 teaspoons of blood, with dot scarring).

 

He chose robotics. Just like FUE, the healing was MUCH faster and he was back to work in a fraction of the time.

 

IMO, videos of FUE and strip should be posted at the top of the HT forums so perspective patients can see exactly what they are getting into.

 

That is the honest way to go.

 

NO secrets.

NO hiding.

Full transparency.

 

You and I both know that if perspective HT patients saw what strip surgery really entailed, most would run for the hills, go for FUE or accept their baldness.

 

A doc who can show good FUE results but refuses to leave strip behind is ethically worse-off than a doc who can't perform FUE and offers the best procedure he can.

 

That is my opinion as a longtime strip patient who has also undergone BHT and I'm sticking to it.

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

Respectfully,

 

josh

(sofarsogood)

[Sofarsogood]

thanatopsis_awry,

 

"The strip clinics want to keep the status quo going"

Yes indeed, IMO.

 

"So Feller, Hasson, Wong, Shapiro, Alexander, et. al. are statists that are resistant to evolutionary improvement and innovation? And, I suppose, in turn, Armani is some fantastic progressive embracing change?"

 

Since Armani is a sore subject here, I have no comment on their practices.

Also, I have no first-hand experience with their clinic.

 

H&W are the best at what they offer, IMO. I will not bash them.

At the same time, out of their thousands of cases, what percentage have been posted on the internet?

 

"Which? And if you could show grown out examples of their respective work in cases comparable to strip -- preferable with some 2k's, 3k's, 4k's."

 

A simple search on other forums will provide these answers.

 

"Moreover, if we were to talk about doctors milking people for $, would it not stand to reason that they would be in the FUE-realm, with robust pricing, and offering a "revolutionary", "modern", "state of the art" procedure?"

 

Some clinics offer FUE at strip prices (or very close) these days.

 

"Fear mongering"???

 

How about TRANSPARENCY?

New patients have NO IDEA what strip entails.

They see Bosley commercials where everything is presented as rosy and believe that tripe.

 

"For what its worth, FUE (which causes far more trauma, fyi)"

 

Far more trauma?

I completely disagree.

I've had both.

Let's see videos of both procedures.

No knife (needles or very small punch tools) or a strip of skin cut out of the head with a knife and sewn or stapled back together?

P l e a s e.

 

"I am truly sorry you got butchered"

 

I did not get butchered but have wide strip scars and grow my hair very long.

But Dr. Umar will fix them in time using beard hair.

 

My full-face pics are available for all to see and my case is well documented in pictures, writings and video.

Not many folks can say that on these forums.

 

Ciao.

[wylie]

Originally posted by Bill - Associate Publisher:

Sofarsogood,

 

Dr. Umar had performed over 150 BHT cases. Yet to date, only a few cases of successful BHT are presented online. You have to realize that for people to start accepting BHT (or even FUE) as the "norm", people have to see consistency.

 

You are falling into the trap of "either/or" when in reality the answer is BOTH. Both strip and FUE/BHT can be used effectively.

 

Both surgeries can be performed with competent precision in the hands of the right doctor. Its been established for the doubting class (almost ALL who are strip patients or strip practioners and their surrogates) that FUE and BHT can show positive, achievable results.

 

The argument of "this one is better than that one" only serves as a distraction, as both are possible to attain remarkable results. All the normal concerns, and necessary caution in choosing someone to perform it apply.

 

Videos, testimonials, and pictures have been presented on this forum to the doubting class by Dr. Umar. Other doctors, like Dr. Woods of Australia, have been doing it for many years already. And for some patients its their only option. Trying to avoid recommending this to them when this is the case because "results are not consistent enough" really is not applicable to repair patients. For first time patients with virgin scalps then indeed it should be evaluated thoroughly and debated and researched before choosing one over the other.

 

I would suggest to others to do your own research and, most importantly, reach your own conclusions independently, while taking all sides under consideration.

 

One being "superior" to the other is an argument that may never be settled and is best avoided, as its a fluid argument that differs greatly based on someone personal situation. For those not wanting a strip scar, they have other options. Everyones situation, including finances, desired results, and determination in who is the best surgeon must be considered, only more so now then ever before.

 

[Sofarsogood]

Originally posted by wylie:

Originally posted by Bill - Associate Publisher:

Sofarsogood,

 

Dr. Umar had performed over 150 BHT cases. Yet to date, only a few cases of successful BHT are presented online. You have to realize that for people to start accepting BHT (or even FUE) as the "norm", people have to see consistency.

 

You are falling into the trap of "either/or" when in reality the answer is BOTH. Both strip and FUE/BHT can be used effectively.

 

Both surgeries can be performed with competent precision in the hands of the right doctor. Its been established for the doubting class (almost ALL who are strip patients or strip practioners and their surrogates) that FUE and BHT can show positive, achievable results.

 

The argument of "this one is better than that one" only serves as a distraction, as both are possible to attain remarkable results. All the normal concerns, and necessary caution in choosing someone to perform it apply.

 

Videos, testimonials, and pictures have been presented on this forum to the doubting class by Dr. Umar. Other doctors, like Dr. Woods of Australia, have been doing it for many years already. And for some patients its their only option. Trying to avoid recommending this to them when this is the case because "results are not consistent enough" really is not applicable to repair patients. For first time patients with virgin scalps then indeed it should be evaluated thoroughly and debated and researched before choosing one over the other.

 

I would suggest to others to do your own research and, most importantly, reach your own conclusions independently, while taking all sides under consideration.

 

One being "superior" to the other is an argument that may never be settled and is best avoided, as its a fluid argument that differs greatly based on someone personal situation. For those not wanting a strip scar, they have other options. Everyones situation, including finances, desired results, and determination in who is the best surgeon must be considered, only more so now then ever before.

 

 

Hi Wylie,

 

A very reasonable point of view, IMO.

 

You are indeed an aptly named "hair guru".

 

Peace.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Wylie,

 

You make some excellent points. You are right that there are options available for patients and this is a good thing. But the argument here started when BHT advocates started condemning strip.

 

I think it is important to discuss which methods are more optimal for which patients, which is hopefully where this discussion is going rather than totally condemning one practice over the other.

 

I do believe FUE and even BHT has a place in hair transplant surgery but I don't believe either are strip replacements.

 

I think we also have to separate scalp FUE from body FUE (BHT). Scalp FUE has proven to be consistent in certain cases, but there are additional risks of transection due to the additional forces added to the follicle during extraction. In my opinion, a few dedicated surgeons like Dr. Feller have been able to overcome them.

 

There is no doubt that Dr. Umar (and maybe a few others) have performed some impressive BHT cases (as presented on this forum). But the question of consistency with BHT still comes into play. In fact, Dr. Umar admitted on this thread that growth yield in his experience so far with BHT has been between 70-80% depending on the location hair is taken from on the body.

 

He said: "The yield I have observed varies with the location of the donor, and the quality of the hair. It has ranged from 70-80 percent allowing for hair that is not showing on the surface because of the skin owing to resting phase."

 

70-80% growth yield is pretty darn good for someone who has no available scalp hair for transplantation. But for those looking to maximize their results, strip or even scalp FUE (when appropriate) are superior in my opinion.

 

SoFarSoGood is certainly right about strip being more intrusive. But we all know that elite surgeons can significantly minimize risks and postoperative healing is usually very smooth. Considering BHT evidence is very limited (2 impressive results posted by Dr. Umar is enough to peak my interest, but even he admits that very few are candidates) and scalp FUE generally speaking appears inconsistent, strip is not going away anytime soon (if ever).

 

But BHT and FUE give patients an option. It's just important they understand the benefits, limitations, and risks of all of their choices before proceeding.

 

The good news is, patients can research their options on this online community, see the good, the bad, and the ugly, and make an educated decision as to which surgery is right for them.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Take advantage of the positives of strip which would be ,cost, yield, megasesions and consistency . Then take advantage of fue with touchups and scar fill in.

Best of both worlds .

Going to a great doc will leave most guys with an above average scar that will need a limited amout of grafts to fill in.

Going to a crappy doc or a bunch of small sessions enhances the chance of a strected scar.