NBC's TODAY Show reporting on Hair Growth Treatments

[bezane]

To the doctors and board members that try to post with a polite and even tone I do commend you for your tolerance. But I also don't have the patience for hucksters. Bald is bald. You either cure it or you don't. I advocate for people to either get a top shelf transplant from one of the masters or deal with your baldness with dignity. No checking the mirror to see if a single hair sprouted from some wacky tonic. I wish the board were more about crucifying those that prey on the desperate. Whether intentional or not.

 

Lasers have not done anything for hair transplantation or regrowth. Even the cutting by laser method was silly.

[el guapo]

Dr Bauman.

 

This is really quite sad. Everyone knows lazer therapy is a hoax. There is no evidence supporting the claims that lazer regrows hair.

And the only tests ever made were made in conjunction with minoxidil. It was only proved that the lazer - minoxidil combination regrew hair. For something not to work with minoixidil it has to be direcly harmful to your scalp.

And that is why lazer was approved by the FDA.

 

I can smear pigeon feaces on my head and use minoxidil as well and the results would be the same. Bottled pigeon faces would also pass FDA, given it is not somehow dangerous.

 

Lazer does not work. You are just shining light on your scalp. May as well use a torch, it is definately cheaper.

And then you can spend the money you saved on bottled pigeon shit.

[Aquarius]

el guapo, keep your powder dry and your pecker hard. : )

[MrJobi]

Hi all

 

If you look at the facts, there are 2 very credible doctors on here ( and mine who is not posting) who claimLaser therapy does not gernerate results ..

 

That speaks for itself

 

Lastly, the FDA approval does not mean it grows hair rather it is safe to use. This is my take on it

[nobuzz4me]

Well said El Guapo and Jobi!

 

Aquarius, I have trouble understanding your lingo sometimes - but you crack me up anyway. You bring it strong my brother.

[DrBauman]

It is certainly very exciting to see such a lively discussion regarding laser therapy on this forum. A healthy skepticism is certainly understandable. In fact I, too, was a skeptic back in 1999 before I acquired my first in-office phototherapy unit from Sweden. For those of you who may not know, for over a year we did not charge patients for this treatment and we tracked patients using laser therapy (ALONE, without other treatments). At that point in time, I essentially set out to DISPROVE that the therapy worked--not only to myself, but also to the local distributor. Now, I can say that certainly it was NO MIRACLE CURE, and some patients simply DID NOT achieve any measurable results. However, many of those patients did see a reversal of minaturization and an improvement in hair texture. Those were the patients that encouraged me to continue offering the therapy. In the nearly EIGHT years since, we've treated hundreds of patients with laser therapy and it has been an integral part of my hair restoration practice. I am happy to provide my patients with a non-chemical, non-invasive treatment that is effective.

Certainly, improving hair quality or simply achieving minor improvements in coverage of certain areas of the scalp is not going to satisfy all patients.

For those who are, as yet, not familiar with the science of phototherapy (which has been around for around 25 yrs or so), including its cellular effects, I would direct them to the medical and scientific literature, like that found at http://www.laser.nu for example.

When it comes to hair loss, it's true, the studies are just starting to come to the forefront, but the anecdotal reports appeared in text books from years ago.

 

One study in particular was presented two years ago at a medical conference is summarized below. It suggests that light-energy can have a cellular effect that mimicks that of minoxidil. This may be a clue to the mechanism of Low Level Laser Therapy and its effect on the dermal papilla cells of the human hair follicle...

 

 

 

ABSTRACT:

LED PHOTOMODULATION INDUCED HAIR GROWTH STIMULATION

 

Robert Weiss, David H. McDaniel, Roy G. Geronemus, Margaret Weiss

 

Maryland Laser Skin & Vein Institute, Hunt Valley, MD

Laser Skin & Vein Center of Virginia, Virginia Beach, VA

Laser & Skin Surgery Center of New York, New York, NY

 

Background & Objective: The ability to stimulate human scalp hair growth is well established. Oral finasteride inhibits 5-alpha reductase (5-AR). Topical minoxidil stimulates vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), hepatocyte growth factor (HGF), and matrix metalloproteinase (MMP-2). LED photomodulation modulates the activity of genes in human skin. This study investigates the effects of LED photomodulation on human dermal papillae cells (HDP) in culture and in clinical trials.

 

Study Design/Materials & Methods: Male and female HDP cells were exposed to LED arrays. Variables included wavelength, energy, and pulse duration. Gene expression of 5-AR, HGF, MMP-2 and others were measured using RT-PCR and microarrays.

 

Results: Different protocols produced significant distinctive effects on gene expression. Relative expression of 5-AR by RT-PCR ranged from -3.6 to +2.0 depending on the LED parameters. For example, one LED array produced VEGF (+1.8), HGF (+2.0), MMP-2 (+2.7) and 5-AR (0). This pattern resembled minoxidil rather than finasteride and was selected for a pilot clinical trial. Hair growth stimulation was observed.

 

Conclusions: LED photomodulation using visible light can alter the expression of genes associated with stimulation of hair growth. This effect is dependant upon treatment parameters

 

Published online in Wiley InterScience

(www.interscience.wiley.com).

DOI 10.1002/lsm.20164

 

Presented at American Society for Laser Medicine and Surgery

Annual Meeting"???Orlando, April 2005.

 

 

I appreciate all of your questions and comments.

 

Sincerely,

Dr. B.

[bezane]

Oh boy. Here we go. Just when I thought I was out......they pull me back in.

 

This post is not directed at Dr. Bauman. My patience are all but obliterated by his posts. This is simply to shed what I think is important points regarding this last post and to further encourage to boycott and slam those doctors that don't get it. It's not like recommending a car. This crap hurts people emotionally and physically.

 

THE LASER THING IS WHACK!!!!! Period. Thge guy posts an abstract. WHat a joke. An abstract is to inform other medical professionals about research. This abstract shows that Laser Therapy should stay in the research area and leave us consumers the hell alone.

 

No one in the world can post photos of significant results using only lasers. And if the point is just to throw everything at it like creams, lotions and drugs, then just admit money falling out of pockets like the hair off a bald man is what these shysters are after.

 

I really think the kind tone of some of our more educated posters allows for this to masquerade as a "possibility." Yet not one guy on here with a nice HT would do this therapy themselves.

 

If a doctor wants to devote himself to cures then do it. When they find that cure let us know and charge us. But don't make false promises of hair when this thing might on a good day produce some angel hair fuzz.

 

Like I said. The pool of qualified surgeons will shrink. Hard work. Not so great cash. But if the Laser comb or Laser treatments can throw another 150K into the practice....why not? A sucker is born every minute.

[the B spot]

So your saying my dream of opening a Laser Hair Clinic is no-go?

 

You mean I can't purchase a 8,000 machine and charge patients 500,1000, 1500 for 4,6,8 week programs?

 

What if I sold local patients the "Ultra Package" where the patient got a hair transplant, and then half-off laser therapy for 6 months?

 

Dammit Bezane, your ruining my dreams here man!!!!

 

[nobuzz4me]

Originally posted by DrBauman:

 

"For those of you who may not know, for over a year we did not charge patients for this treatment and we tracked patients using laser therapy (ALONE, without other treatments)".

 

** Any real photo evidence????

 

 

At that point in time, I essentially set out to DISPROVE that the therapy worked--not only to myself, but also to the local distributor. Now, I can say that certainly it was NO MIRACLE CURE, and some patients simply DID NOT achieve any measurable results. However, many of those patients did see a reversal of minaturization and an improvement in hair texture.

 

"Those were the patients that encouraged me to continue offering the therapy".

 

*** Still free of charge???

 

 

 

In the nearly EIGHT years since, we've treated hundreds of patients with laser therapy and it has been an integral part of my hair restoration practice.

 

*** And profitable$$$$$$

 

 

I am happy to provide my patients with a non-chemical, non-invasive treatment that is effective.

 

*** Effective??? really, you stated earlier that it is no miracle cure and some patients did not achieve any measurable results. Hardly a convincing argument Dr.

[YoungGuy]

nobuzz, to be fair, I have to say that some people do not achieve any measurable results from finasteride, either - which doesn't disprove its effectiveness.

[onlygirl?]

As a member of another non-hair-related forum, where I've posted a LOT, it's rather humbling and uncomfortable to be a newbie, where this is my first post. Eek! So moderators, etc, please direct me to a more appropriate topic/section of the board if I end up totally ransacking this thread.

 

First: This thread has proven very interesting for me.

 

I just went to a free consultation this afternoon at a restoration clinic in the twin cities. First off, I am a 28-yr old female (sniff...let's talk about how attractive women with hair thinning are!!!), and starting a year ago it became evident to me that my hair was thinning. Although, in hindsight it was slowly happening prior, I think. Just not evident to me.

 

But to get back to why I'm posting in this thread: my theory is that the consultant today knew that I was still in the beginning stages where it wasn't noticeable, thus there aren't many options at this point, for women. I still have enough hair (knock on wood) so that more drastic measures are not necessary, or frankly, wouldn't work. I don't think. However, I get little panic/anxiety attacks now and then when I realize it's only a matter of time (2 yrs? 5 yrs?) before I become one of those women you see pictures of. But for now, I guess I'm ok. Obviously it could be a lot worse. But all of this is relative, yes?

 

Anyway. I got the distinct impression that this consultant was taking advantage of the fact that I'm very upset about the direction my hair is going, and that because she couldn't offer anything else, she immediately stated the LLLT was the best option for my situation. And what troubled me was that she had pronounced this verdict, before even studying my scalp and getting up close and personal w/ it! Thankfully I'm a skeptic and thus when she went into her marketing/'scientific' spiel about all of it (also, thankfully I studied bio in college so when she started throwing some of those words out at me, I became alarmed and on guard), I became worried. The thing is though....on driving home, I was actually 90% there to fork over $3195 for 6-8 months of treatment!!!!! I'm that desperate (after all, it's not like things are going to get any better..only worse over time). Thankfully I decided to start attempting to research all of it! Not that I wouldn't have ultimately researched beforehand, BUT...this hair thing for a woman (and until this thread I didn't realize how debilitating it could be for men too) is pretty crappy. [Oh, and for good measure, the woman did inspect my hair after her spiel, whereupon she pointed out the areas that were thinning. Also, a friends' husband has attended this clinic for a while now, so I know he's had good experiences with them; I just find it troubling how quickly she threw out the LLLT option to me, personally.]

 

If my post is nothing else than babbling...at least you guys have a price quote for what they're charging for it at the clinic here in town.....

 

And again: please point me to a better forum (or whatever) where I can direct my angst and anxiety about my hair (or lack thereof) issues. :-)

[Bill - Seemiller]

Hello onlygirl? and welcome to the forums.

 

And since your nickname implies a question, I'll answer it...NO, you are not the only girl. There have been several women through this forum and have gotten a lot of helpful information. Some have even undergone hair transplant surgery (since it was right for them) with credible doctors, etc.

 

Of course, as you say, you are in the beginning stages of hair loss, so hair transplantation may not be a viable option for you at this point.

 

We can certainly understand how you feel here, and you are certainly not babbling. Not only is this a GREAT place for education, but it's a place where you will find a lot of support from a lot of great people. Sure, most of us here are men, but there are some great women that post here like Tarasilk, who I have had the priviledge of talking with publicly and privately on this forum. She shared her experience with my privately first since she was more comfortable and then began to publicly post her experience and photos. In fact, I think she is a few months post op at this point and am looking forward to hearing about her progress.

 

LLLT is clearly controversial, and so far to date, I have not seen any solid evidence that LLLT does ANYTHING to regrow or even strengthen existing hair. Some argue that there MIGHT be some evidence that it MIGHT do something, and though I'm wiling to keep an open mind, I'm also a man who likes to see proof.

 

And MANY people have shoveled out thousands and even tens of thousands of dollars on LLLT and only continued to lose hair. The only thing that happened was their wallet (or purse) became thinner.

 

As tempting as it is, and as hard as it is, especially being a woman, to start losing your hair, I beg you NOT to make any decision based on your emotions. Take your time and research before jumping into anything.

 

So there are certainly women here and I'm sure they will be able to encourage you as well as us men.

 

I do encourage you, however, to start your own thread so people will respond solely to you and about your situation. What, if anythihng have you tried to combat hair loss?

 

We'd love to hear more about your experience. If I can do anything for you, feel free to Private Message me (you can do this by going to "New" and then "Private Message" or by clicking my name on the left hand side and clicking "Invite Bill to a private topic".

 

I hope this helps.

 

Bill

[bezane]

Bill has proven once again that he is the nicest man on the forum. He is polite in telling you that you're nuts if you spend a nickel for this nonsense.

 

Me, well, I'd like to see the clinic you went to go bankrupt today. They are slime. They sell water, a drop at a time, to thirsty, dehydrated men.

 

Consult with Dr. Keene. While being a woman doesn't give her any guaranteed insight into your dilemma, I think you may feel more at ease with her. She is beautiful with beautiful hair, talented and quite sensitive to the emotional side of all this.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Bezane,

 

Thanks? I think? Not sure if that was a compliment or an insult...though the word "nonsense" doesn't indicate a compliment.

 

Either way, onlygirl MAY not be a candidate for a hair transplant at this point, based on what she said. People who only just start to lose their hair typically are NOT. Donor supply is finite and should be used wisely.

 

Of course, women have less medical options than men, since finasteride is out, however, it's all a matter of what someone is willng to do.

 

Like you, I would HATE to see her shovel out thousands of dolloars for LLLT when there is no proof that it does anything. In fact, you and I agree that these big chains selling this "product" for thousands of dollars need to go out of business NOW.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

[bezane]

Bill.....I always take time to read your well thought out posts. It was very complimentary, however you simply are more polite about shouting down hucksters and opportunists than I am.

 

Often times, when someone is deemed a poor candidate for HT, they are panicked into the arms of creams, pills, and funny lights, because of desperation. That bothers me.

 

I tend to appreciate a more hotile environment Bill. Where we call out the hucksters and threaten them. It seems far less excessive than the tactic they use in stretching miniscule evidence to ram a crappy product down our throats.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Bezane,

 

Well thanks for the compliment then.

 

Believe me, I have had my moments where I call out the hucksters...and will continue to do it as I see fit.

 

CERTAINLY these outfits charging an arm and a leg for LLLT should be put out of business and put out of their (or shall I say OUR) misery. So you and I agree on this front.

 

But I also believe in providing a nurturing and welcoming environment where people can comfortably ask questions and be greeted with a welcoming response. My guess is we probably agree here to some degree as well.

 

Cheers bro,

 

Bill

[early stage]

I am a 51 year old male who is starting to experience some thinning. I found this forum and would like to know if there is anything new to report as to the efficacy of the laser treatment. The last post I see here is over 2 1/2 years old.

Thank you

[oncesilky]

I am a 53 yo female who has been suffering from hair loss for 4 years. I was on rogaine and proscar for 2 years and it did not help much. I was frantic.My hair was still falling out. I changed drs. to a dermatologist who specialises in hair loss and he had been following laser therapy for years. He decided that there was enough evidence to support if not hair regrowth then stopping it from falling out. I used it for 3 times a week for 2 months then 2 times a week for 2 months and now maintain once a week. I purchace a laser on a stand as the compbs are inefficient and time consuming. My hair after a couple of months stopped falling out.It became shinier as well. It stablised for a period of a year before I dicided to have a transplant. I now use the lights post transplant and would not go with out it. My doctor has had several patients use the lights and have had great success. So for me the combo of the lights and meds have worked.

[Bill - Seemiller]

oncesilky,

 

Welcome to our community.

 

Just so you know, you'd have better luck with responses starting your own thread rather than piggie backing off an old one from 2007.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[TC17]

I was under the impression that Finasteride was not prescribed to women. I have suspicions about the validity of oncesilky...