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bezane

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  1. Commercialization of this site? So what. How much more commercial can you get? Are we all going to get a look at what money and by whom has been paid to this site? I had this squabble long ago here. We were "kind of" called out for slamming obvious "patients" with "whammo" results. Do drug companies pay money here? Does Bill, being now an employee of "this forum" need to post that he advocates certain drugs and procedures? Just scrap the forum and its repetition and let the doctors pay for links to their sites and Bill to tell everyone to get on a lifetime of Propecia and who to go to. You make it seem like B spot is suddenly going to make the forum commercialized. B spot, Jotronic at least point everyone in the right direction. What happens when everyone has a rep on here? I worry more that a "moderator" that is the main source of advice, well it's no longer a forum. I like Bill well enough, but who the hell is he to advocate drugs without any patient history or exam when he is an employee of this site. It can be argued that this site acts as an "expert" on such matters and should be held liable for such advice is it causes adverse conditions. I'm don't mean to pick on anyone here but to bring up "concern" after B Spot announcing he is advocating a great surgeon seems odd. So let's then pick on the site for everything in defense of one of the best posters here. How much does a coalition doctor actually pay to be part of it? And there should be some better literature here discussing the side-effects as well as the unknown elements of the drugs advocated here. I love this site but since I first discovered it and now, it has become a total commercial venture. That's fine. Most of us only use commercialized businesses for everything in our lives. And so goes this site. And another point, before we say that doctors must "prove" they are practicing state of the art procedure to be part of the coalition, well the coalition, is it certified? By whom? What is their qualification? Just about every poster that has gone through a HT posts their opinions. By forcing the paid ones underground the forum will deteriorate with clandestine posting and selling. The site is slowly losing ground to other information out there and has become somewhat cultish. Unpopular words. Oh well. Would hate to see a public service site suddenly.....BE IN BUSINESS.
  2. Good Bill. I didn't do prescribed exercises and had a very low harvest number. Additionally the post op pain in donor area is greater. I wasn't aware of waiting six months after to start again but that makes sense. So important. I want to use the exercise thing as making a good point of why even with coalition docs we have a long way to go here. Until my last HT I never heard it from anyone. And I can't thing of anything more important the patient could do to help themselves and the doc.
  3. Hey NikkiJ. You should just post your phone number and a price list. To be honest I know Dr. Alexander. I doubt he would want his sales people posting professional advice without a disclaimer on a private forum board. I would hate to see the future of this board turn into a poaching zone for salespeople. Let's also look at the view that he probably needs a lot more grafts to be done. So why bother with the Propecia. Also try Hasson & Wong. Just a short plane trip. Way better than Alexander. Cheaper. And if you live in Arizona also check out Keene. Base on the thousands of posts here about them and the few about Alexander I would say that there's no comparison. Just my opinion of course Nikki. PS The website at Hasson & Wong is jaw dropping by the way. Just check it out. And based on PIC #16 I doubt the drugs will do much, but go ahead and 3000 grafts will give you very light full coverage.
  4. Hey Guys....I to think this is an important topic and glad some of the bigger posters are weighing in. Bill.....I don't and haven't taken Propecia. "I'm fucking bald" is my logic and I've had HTs. I don't want to take the med. And not because of side effects. My reason is that personally, baldness ruined my life in many ways. And Propecia, by the time it came available would of probably kept 1/3-1/2 my loss. Might of still been on it. I want to be done with baldness once and for all. To open that bottle and take a pill every day would be a horror for me. It had to stop. I started HT repair and a regimen and probably am finished. I did however, suffer from an illness in which the chemicals prescribed were toxic and caused side-effects. That was bad. That was necessary. I think you also mentioned in a jestful way that "everything causes cancer." And while I get your point, this whole thing did not start as a war on Propecia or even a negative topic started on Propecia. This is about a poster like you for example. You answer, to the best of your ability, many new posters asking the same kind of initial questions as others. You give them advice. But you also include the Propecia regimen when they are asking about a HT. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that I think I read as many as 50 posts from you to that effect. And you're just one poster. And it is relative to mention Propecia. But to me, an maintenance program to hold onto your hair, that may have side effects, and might be for life, should be given as much weight as the HT in our debate de rigeur with new posters. Presenting ourselves as knowing individuals, and we are!, immediately sounds like a Propecia endorsement. Get on this pill possibly forever and get a transplant and if you quit the pill your hair will fall out and you'll need more transplants! Now that seems to be popular logic here. It's not for me. We also like the idea that a 22 year-old is too young for a HT. And for the most part maybe he is, but why? Generally speaking the Coalition and forum state that it's too early predicting the amount of loss. I think there should be a new scale just like Norwood called a Norwood Rate Scale. Instead of just showing what degree of baldness you have, it will show what what degree of baldness you WILL have and how fast from today you're going there. The amount of donor hair is also an issue. How much will you need. Will it cover. Will it be there in ten years. Well the point that this intertwines with Propecia is that if the 22 year-old gets on it, at what point will we be able to predict how fast he's balding and how bald will he get if he stops Propecia? After all, there's a chance taking the meds might stop any additional loss. So now we have the dilemma of the lifelong addiction. That's a bit weird. Isn't it. And there's other developmental side-effects to consider. Many reports of sensitive mid-section to the breast area, even slight enlargement, and lots of weight gain out there. Any of these can possibly relate to development in a young adult. Additionally there are complaints of lethargy usually around mid afternoon and also lack of assertiveness. And to Mjrb....This is not about scaring the shit out people. This is called a debate on side-effects and especially to be perused by a non-user considering use. No one is scared. But if someone objects to coaxing people to do it, which would be the case if someone doesn't speak out against it, then it becomes an advertisement. This is supposed to be an upscale well-informed forum. It's not just about the hair man at any and every cost. Especially to a 21 year-old in a panic. He'll tend to ignore what he doesn't want to hear. Folica....about Doctors should handle this. Sounds good but doesn't make sense. The FDA approves this drug and a doctor has to prescribe it but the way it's dispensed seems a bit easy. Medicine and medical school isn't a mystery to me. I accept very little at face value. I trust but verify. And even these esteemed coalition doctors need to be challenged. There is more work to be done in their area. The status quo here getting up to speed on the level of Hasson. It's not research and development. So my point is not "it's all about money and they're all corrupt." I know they have a business and I know they have bills to pay and I for one never asked a surgeon for a discount. But the average doctor makes $75 on the initial prescription. It's huge when you tally it up. Consider this as well. Many general practitoners dispense Propecia. In fact a huge amount more than HT docs. Most men on Propecia are not or not yet considering a HT. However that number is still a low percentage of their patients compared to HT docs where it is discussed with every male patient and prescribed to half. It is part of the business. I saw this site and liked it because the guy includes some stuff from med school books and med journals as well as his own experience. There's a link somewhere to a forum with a lot of complaints. I in no way promoting this. I came across it and it was pretty good. He has side-effects that continued on after he stopped use. I'm 100% certain this is a rare case. Just didn't want you to think I was pulling out the pom poms in the fight against Propecia. http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/index.htm
  5. Okay....but why when we talk about a hair loss drug specifically do we have to profile other unrelated drugs to be fair? Especially in regards to a hair loss forum. And furthermore when it is the manufacturer that agrees stopping use will return you to your previous state which in turn means on the drug for life. Hair loss is only eclipsed by ED as far as angst in males. Here we're dealing with an absolute in one and the possibility of the other. It surprises me a bit that so much debate has to be put into this as opposed to saying it should be as large a decision to go on possible lifelong meds as having a HT. Or maybe this should be exclusively a HT forum and leave meds alone. Which in and of itself is silly.
  6. Just one more point Mjrb, and I do know you and I both have patients' best interest in mind, you stae that there is NO PROOF that Propecia has side effects. That's just 100% false. It does. Merck says so. That's why they say 2%. My opinion is it's higher and there's no proof it is safe long-term (10-50 years). When they speak, they speak to all. Not someone that has been on the drug for two years and are happy. That disclaimer is generally for new users. And the reason I say long-term 10-50 years is because it is not a therapeutic drug when used for MPB. Use it, it works. Stop, it falls out. And that fall out by the way is not considered a side effect. And consequently very little from Merck promotes that fact.
  7. Mjrb, while I respect your view you are deade wrong on this comparison. MILLLIONS of people are drinking and screwing every day. And you are taking the point that I made that the guy might look at the side effects from Propecia are real. I'd say it's a good possibility rather than you or whomever asking "were you drinking?" Here's why: First of all he asked the question. Included in his request for advice was that he was on Propecia and never experienced this particuliar phenomenon. So given that info and nothing about him drinking, would lead most to believe he may have cause for concern. And if it were alcohol I'm sure his prior experience with it would register as experience in his mind. I mean he is 27. I'm sure it wasn't his first drink and his first girl. And no one ever said alcohol was not a depressant and that two drinks wouldn't make us LEGALLLY drunk. I drink as well as most to get buzzed or at least get that relaxing buzz. But failing a breathylyzer at .08 doesn't have any evidence of turning off your winky. Excessive drunkedness is what has a history of winky shut down. And before you throw casual drinking in with liver/heart disease, remember that 6 oz. of wine or up to 2 drinks per day is quite often prescribed by physicians to promote relaxed functioning of blood flow etc. And speaking to marketing. You must be kidding with that comparison. Liquor companies to Pharmas. First off if you take a single company a biggie like BUD. What do they spend on just one of their products? 10x Merck. I doubt it. But even so. The way a drug company markets and a Liquor company markets are two very different things. While a drug company initially advertises it aims at a much smaller market in two ways. Doctors primarily. While there's a lot, there's less than the general population. And when aiming at their user base it is quite small compared to the general populace as well. Furthermore, the drop off rate of advertising after launch is much bigger for pharmas, because USUALLY there is little competition for a particular specialty drug, and to be brutally honest, they know once someone signs on they are usually hooked into using it. Exceptions for drugs Viagra/Levitra/Cialis. Why? Huge competition. I would also venture an educated guess that the Alcohol Industry spends 10X Merck on promoting safe use with their products, especially since 2000. Their drunk driving campaign is huge. Merck disclaimer is usually read by a speed reader or put in close to unreadable fine print. I understand you want to use and at least in this forum promote Propecia because it works for you. But you have no long-term historical facts about its toxicity and you certainly have no future results. Again you speak to my posts like they are directed at you when not one of them was. And being critical of someone that prefers to proceed with caution about drugs doesn't really make sense of it. And I agree you will find so few doctors that will be negative about drugs but they are part of the industry, have bills to pay etc. I also don't understand the last part of your statement where you quote me about "strong drugs and chemicals" and then you say they are Marketing Giants. Some of the debate techniques you use are popular in politics. They make statements that technically may be true but are not actually relative to the point.
  8. That's all fine Mjrb but any of my rantings about meds was not in response to YOUR personal situation. You informed yourself and decided to go with it. This is about GENERALIZING when giving advice to people seeking it out. And your comparisons to make your point are quite the quantum leaps from aspirin for example to Propecia. Aspirin afterall has been approved for use for a little bit more time than Propecia. I think the comparison is kind of silly no? Milk? Weight? Not sure why it is so important to make Propecia keep such company but for some of us/you it works and thats fine.
  9. Why do drugs go hand and hand with HT?. Because most posters and doctors say so? My results as very very good and don'y do meds. Side effects are rather mild? Says who? Merck? Or are you speaking of the 2%? I know recreational drug users since my college days that still use and never stepped over the edge into addiction. Should that be considered when informing college kids about meth? Once the meds work you have to stay on it for that result. End of story. That's addiction. The difference between me and others here is that they have a 250 million dollar PR and ad campaign on their side. I'm just using historic pharma data and logic. And when side effects have been documented why is someone saying they don't have side effects a testimony to someone considering taking the meds? It seems crystal balls are a myth, and that doesn't make sense to assume someone else is safe. The initial point to all this was about mostly everyone here saying it was near criminal for a doc to do a HT regimen on a 22 year-old. Yet taking a strong chemical possibly for life is okay and the way to go. Many drugs are designed to damage certain things in our body in order for other body functions to survive or rule. For example chemo therapy. Propecia is designed to tuen the prostate from a plum to a prune. I'll take my chances without it.
  10. My point is this guys, and I'm glad by the way you don't have side effects that you know of, is that this board is a bit more advanced than your average say what you want forum. So I think it's kind of bad to jump right to meds without consideration that they are dangerous. But I can't imagine your statement Mjrb that it is DANGEROUS to not consider meds or stabilizing your hair loss. How? Dangerous? Remember when taking chemicals it's not unusual for long term negative effects to be realized after time. My friend Nick was on it. Loved it. His wife loved the amazing result. They are smart people and took great care to keep her away from the Propecia. He now has two autistic children. Certainly not blaming Propecia but he talks about it all the time. The medical community rarely will police marginal events. Pat and this community have the responsibility to warn people of the dangers as long as we all consider ourselves budding experts. And by the way, I could care less about the sexual thing compared with the unknown. Do you understand what this drug does to help men when used as a prostate drug? Yes, it's five times the dose but..... As far as the waiting for something else, well that doesn't really make sense to me but if it works for others so be it. Once you get good results from the Propecia you're hooked. Only a transplant can substitute it. I'm not trying to play like I'm better than anyone here, but with transplants struggling to make acceptable results the mainstream, there's a huge need for thinking outside the box. That's what I'm doing. Realizing that drug dependence whether physical or cosmetic/physical is bad. Period. It was discovered by mistake so they use it. Make huge huge huge money from it. It's the same as fighting the big bad Bosleys and such. Big money, so no one wants to hear it. I also advocate programs for 20 year-olds. Why not? That's when they need it most. Many pediatric solutions have been pioneered with eventual adult growth complication factored in. Before this turns into a profit only industry, the consumer should step up and make these doctors and pharmas meet the demand. And on the subject of new advancements, things like cloning have been sketchy. And unfortunately I'll have to be anti-drug here until I get kicked off the site. If that was the case then obviously I'd be onto something. I've talked to several of these doctors and off the record they would rather do a full transplant but Propecia has been such a strong marketer that patients demand it and get it. It's a big part of the business. So like I stated here before. Guys do more research when buying a car than buying a transplant. That's why there's the dreaded clinics. And the dreaded stories. And one last note when researching Propecia. Read carefully. Most sites (9 out of 10 in my estimate) are simply stocked with literature provided by Merck. And 2% side effects is high. And if it were .10% severe side effects that is still high. So when some of you say, hey....doesn't effect me, well that's great for you but should not act as an endorsement. Also Merck claims that the mentioned side effects were also in the placebo group. No way I'm accepting that. Their study was also in 1800 men. Not tiny but not what I call a ringing endorsement. To end this for now I also want to state that I'm not one to make a big deal out of these things usually but I was mesmerized by the posts here to newbies that jump right into telling them to get on Propecia that it started seeming like a Merck advertisement.
  11. Hey G...me and Gorp went to Keene. I'm happy. I like Tucson, if that matters. I didn't take Gorp's advice on hotel accomodations and should have. But they are a no frills office and that I happen to like.
  12. Really though.....I thought Gorp was a show off when he posted that hairline. Now I see he is a bi-lingual show off. Probably can do math too. Here we go again. The meds. Sorry guys. Over a 100,000 internet posts about people seeking help because of side effects. Propecia is toxic, but all these guys here, although very knowing rush in with a standard boilerplate response to get on meds. He's going to need 6,000 grafts. Three appointments with Dr. Keene. Or two with Hasson. This med thing is all wrong. I hope it becomes a major issue and quick. The drug companies must love this site and should be paying dearly because 99% of us are gung ho drugs. They are expensive and toxic. They have ZERO to do with genetic correction. So YOU ARE GOING BALD. I know. You guys are already tired of me attaching to every post with this. But look at it from my point of view. Every post to a newbie starts with the med regimen. A 27 year-old that starts Propecia will spend more on the drug than on 6500 grafts in his lifetime. The only difference is there's no way to know what the meds are doing unless your pecker starts to shrivel. You cannot start a lifetime regimen of a toxic substance at age 21, no more than you should go for the transplants. No offense to the Doctors that post here or belong to the coalition but I wouldn't aska doctor his opinion necessarily. They are heavily subsidized in some way by pharmas. It it an economy and industry unto itself. Give this some serious thought guys because more data is on the way and the I TOLD YOU SOs and regrets will follow. Don't let your pregnant wife even touch the tabs, but you go ahead and swallow it. Chemicals What's it all about?
  13. Better to be robbed of your youth than your penis.
  14. Repetition. Repetition. But this my subject. Get off it. Psychological sexual dysfunction due to reading side effect labels on meds has the exact same effect as physical sexual dysfunction. It doesn't work. And ask yourself this....Where did the 2% come from? That would be the company. That would be to placate the FDA. That would be to enable them to sell the crap. No one knows. And before someone here chimes in to say they do know. Then they should also know what the % was in the placebo group during phase III. I doubt it though. They are strong drugs made from chemicals that you are putting in your body. Now the blunt part. If I were that beautiful chick and felt like getting my brains fucked out Friday night I wouldn't go back for seconds of a shriveled up dick. Think about that one. Plan a HT regimen. Shave the head and while you're at it trim the pecker hair a bit at the shaft base to make it look longer and screw away. As far as alcohol goes, it is proven to thwart sex drive in about 2% when taken in MODERATION TO ACHIEVE A NICE BUZZ. I personally love to drink exactly 2 martinis (vodka, straight up, bruised, twist) or half bottle of wine and love to get frisky.
  15. Hate the repetition but I feel it is important to part company with my peeps here on the issue of meds. Everyone jumps immediately with this crazy advice to get on meds. That advice is naive in my opinion. The clinicals on those meds are sketchy leading up to their approval. For example, is there toxicity involved? Why the possibility of loss of sex drive? And here's one for the way off future: Suppose you're on those meds for 20 years and have had HT's and then at age 55 figure to scrap the Propecia because another doc may feel it is interfering with a condition like prostate complications, heart condition whatever. What then will the HT's look like when the natives fall out. Back to the surgeon 20 years later? Maybe it might even look ridiculous. Granted, I am anti-drug. Hardcore. 750 million went into Propecia research so you may think all is well. But I say they'll do whatever they have to, to get that drug approved and sell it to avoid losing all that dough. Go ahead and trust them at your own risk. Remember, Propecia works, but was intended to take it for 50 years? I hear people here without hesitation to get on the Propecia/Rogaine regimen because if you're young you can't predict your hairloss. Well I can predict it. YOU'RE GOING BALD. Not a knock. Just the truth. I remember me trying to conceal mine with a new hairstyle during tradeshow. Someone looked at me noticing the new do and I said...."I know I got scalped." They said...."No, you're going bald." Right then and there I knew it was out.
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