Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by JayLDD

  1. Dr. Wong does some of the best crown work in the world, I'd likely consider him over Konior for this specific case on basis of the types of results they produce, especially considering Konior's extensive waiting list I'd say its a no-brainer. Got to be the funniest list of options I've ever read though. One of the most highly regarded (probably most in the US) and meticulous surgeons in the world, an industry pioneer and the most referred to speciality crown surgeon globally, and then the dude who gets his license suspended for claiming he is Jesus Christ and attacking a patient. https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/health/2014/11/25/hair-transplant-surgeon-claims-jesus-attacks-man/70123254/
  2. I might have mentioned this and read it from one of his (old?) reps on another forum, however the numbers suggested were from up to 70 in the past, and presently around 45-55 due to potential for growth and safety issues beyond this, but not 30-35.
  3. WTF? This patient has *literally* 5% growth in a 4350 graft case, at least judging from the frontal third. What does this have to do with styling or the topic of the other thread? This is not "disappointing, nor is it "lackluster", he's blown 4350 FUE grafts with sub 10% growth, and been offered only 500-1000 grafts by the surgeon. That is a disaster. Not sure why you feel the need to act like you have no sense of reading comprehension, no set of eyes, and a brain with an IQ below 65, I'm sure you are smart enough to figure this out. I don't get what your problem is, do you just enjoy disagreeing with me for the sake of it or coming across like a sarcastic idiot? Just for reference in case you forget while scrolling down the page, this is the result we are referring to.
  4. What on earth are some here talking about, virtually nothing has grown at the front, absolutely less than 10%. People are saying the crown took... well on what photos are people basing this? None actually clearly show before or afters of the crown. I genuinely have not seen a single good result from a first pass from this surgeon and have repeated that many times. Is this seriously what people would call "underwhelming'? No that's what 4000 grafts down the toilet looks like. "In no way is it an absolute disaster." He blew 4350 grafts on a procedure where literally almost nothing grew and is now dealing with an ultra low outline of a hairline that is getting towards female hairline territory in shape. In terms of growth this is a clear example of a disaster. Large amount of grafts via FUE, and under 10% growth with an ultra aggressive hairline. Regarding what OP said: " I expressed my desire for more density, and if it doesn't improve in that time frame, he was suggesting a touch-up between 500-1000 additional grafts," 500-1000 grafts to repair this is a joke. Realistically the number of grafts you'd need for reasonable density in the crown and frontal third here is quite literally around the 3000 graft mark. OP you should be consulting top FUT surgeons and avoid damaging what already looks like a below average donor with FUE any time soon. I'd look into Konior and Hasson/Wong in particular as some examples. Forget Nader and run elsewhere quickly before wasting more time + money and giving the knockout blow to your donor.
  5. In my experience it’s really not a big deal. Being able to walk around in normal circumstances looking like you have no hairloss to the average person like in wind, sun after washing and styling etc is good enough and mostly achievable. Extreme closeups, harsh overhead bathroom lighting and wet hair are issues that don’t matter 99% of the time.
  6. Hair transplants are an illusion and the nature of that relates to density, natural vs replaced. Hence it is the illusion of density. No trick or confusion here, you’re just being silly for whatever reason and playing nonsense word games. Have you had a transplant? Because it most certainly sounds like you havent. If you stand under harsh bathroom lights and look at your hairline after a successful transplant, you will be shocked at how thin it looks and understand the point. The point of the thread is obviously referencing HT014, Payam etc who post the most unflattering photos possible and make a deliberate effort to make results look worse with lighting, lengths, styling, not washing the hair, spreading it, extreme close ups etc. The photo Melvin initially posted shows this perfectly and I guarantee if a new poster showed that a lot of people would be calling for blood of the doctor thinking it was a bad result. Anyone who has had a transplant gets it, I personally can both make it look like I have a full head of hair or look like absolute shit through the above means. The reason is because of the level of density, and that is the illusion. Transplants often give you hair that can appear both severely balding or having virtually a full head of hair depending on conditions, a lot of people clearly refuse to understand this or the logic behind it. If people are posting crown results like that Couto in which the hair is combed for perfect coverage and never in opposing directions, while “wet” hair is with a spray bottle, to say that there’s no illusion proves a lot of people clearly don’t appreciate what illusion refers to. Clearly the clinic understands very well which is why they manipulate in this manner (although yes it is a terrific result). Not sure why you keep playing dumb, I guarantee you understand all this.
  7. When you say temples do you specifically mean the side peaks at the sides or also the corners? The problem I'm referring to is visible above, with each 3 sections distinguishable. Its very clear this person has had a hair transplant because of the jarring change at the side temple peak due to the drastic change in texture and colour of the hair. Imo a patient should go to a surgeon that has experience implanting and rebuilding the entire temple point, or should leave them alone entirely. In this case only half of the temple point on the vertical has been rebuilt with low density implanted into existing areas and its created a mess of a transition as you can see. If your temple peaks are completely gone and recessed into themselves, then find a surgeon who isn't just going to place a few hundred hairs at the front of the peaks or towards the corner, but replace them entirely. Rahal, Hasson, and Erodgan do this often and there is a great lupanzula case here showing what I mean. If they aren't all that bad you're better off avoiding altogether due to potential issues with naturalness and focusing on the frontal hairline as it is the best useage of grafts to begin with.
  8. It’s objectively an illusion. Do you think you can magically using the back of the head restore full original density to the top? Some of you people are being ridiculous. Try looking at a result post-shower (not the silly quick spray) with hair spread apart in different directions and you’ll understand. Try parting the hair in a manner like Payam or Melvin does in the original post for example and you’ll understand. Not to mention people are ignorantly ignoring hair and donor characteristics of Couto patients, which are mostly top-tier. The reality of the illusion doesn’t mean that you can’t expect with reasonable donor characteristics a head of hair that looks natural and doesn’t reflect hairloss, but it does mean that you have to find a way style it, wash it, get ideal lengths etc to make it look good. For a lot of people their personal idea of an ideal situation requires multiple procedures, period.
  9. In that case I’d definitely strongly consider Lorenzo.
  10. No definitely not, but I think it’s downright *moronic* to expect going into a transplant that you’re guaranteed a good result with any clinic, and that if you don’t get one you’re going to shit on the clinic. I show the poor Cooley results above because anyone who has done their research would understand that virtually any clinic no matter how highly regarded regularly gets poor results if you judge statistically (even roughly) across all surgeons. If 5-15% of results from virtually every surgeon are at a similar standard to Payams (they are and everyone should do proper research and stop focusing on top tier results) the hysteria here appears evidently insane. It’s also clearly not a disaster, the density is poor but he’s in a better position than preop and a 1500 graft touchup would likely get him in a very strong position. Payam has the right to complain his results are poor, but to say like he did on the other forum to everyone considering a procedure with Erdogan they “will be butchered” is ridiculous and reflects more poorly on him than the clinic. A normal person with basic understanding of success rates would have accepted and moved on or consulted rationally about a touchup/refund rather than shitting on them, being blatantly dishonest, often outright lying and then expecting sympathy.
  11. I usually like your posts which are consistently helpful but come on, this is silly. Marketing fraud for what exactly? The fact that Payam can't read and misses the email correspondence and website material that nowhere says Koray does extractions (common in europe anyway), and specifically mentions a surgical team engaging in this? You can't claim marketing fraud for a below-par result or in Payam's case being wilfully illiterate. Also you mention "how silencing occurs", what silencing exactly? How is this not tilting at windmills? Not to mention the fact that Payam deliberately parts and combs his hair in the video in the most retarded way possible to forcefully make the result look worse. Melvin did a great job emphasising this type of thing here and anyone else who has had a transplant will understand. No excuse for not understanding this from people who should know better. Also to the people talking refunds, Payam's potentially pushed hundreds of people away off the back of a hell of a lot of dishonest, misleading or blatantly false information. The guy still can't post regular photos that aren't extreme closeups or in harsh bathroom lighting, parted ridiculously to avoid layering etc. No business in the world should refund a client/patient/customer who does this because it encourages people to make things up or in this case potentially assume that because they don't have an eighteen year olds density that they got screwed. If he acted like a decent and reasonable adult its a different story but no business should support or give credit someone who goes out of their way to turn people away off misleading info. He's literally posting on other forums saying not to go to the clinic because they will "be butchered". Sorry, anyone who thinks he should get a refund after that there's something wrong with your head. Also maybe someone can explain to me why these results are passed over and no one cares whether or not they're below par despite Cooley having less than a tenth the number of patient posted results, but Payam's result is the end of the world. Genuinely want to know. I'm sick of having to repeat it, but this is not a dig at Cooley, but a question on why poor results are perfectly fine with some doctors but others people immediately jump to the "muh techs" and accuse the doctor of not caring or doing it for the money etc. Not hard to be reasonable or be consistent. Both with yields visibly lower than Payam's, and no one cares despite these two being half of the patient posted Cooley results on this site from the around the last yearish.:
  12. I would solely be looking at Lorenzo and Erdogan for FUE, but also consider Hattingen clinic and Hasson/Wong for FUT as a backup if you're not happy with either of those options. I think common Erdogan 5000+ graft type procedure would be ideal, and likely a second procedure worth considering beyond that also. I think relatively full coverage with a conservative hairline is easily possible. The main issue is time and money, also assuming that a first procedure goes well in terms of yield of graft survival.
  13. "less than 1 % of his surgeries attain less than optimal results, so I believe one should expect 90+ growth in most cases." I've seen enough results from virtually every major surgeon to know that is absolute BS. The fact they said this is probably the most negative thing I've heard about the Rahal clinic in this whole thread. "However, top class docs are producing excellent, consistent results" It depends what you mean by consistency though. For virtually every surgeon I look at success rates tend to be around 5-15% even among top options. For the 9/10 people that get a good result (which happen to be the ones people focus on when booking a procedure) that's definitely the case. For the 1/10 that doesn't have a good result suddenly its a whole different story, and with 200-500 procedures a year that could be anywhere from 20-75 subpar results in a year. I remember seeing four Cooley patient posted results last year for example, two of them were very much subpar. It makes zero sense that somehow patient posted results on this forum have a higher rate of failure than their overall broader pool of results. The fact is for a lot of people they don't get good results despite a top end surgeon, period. Again I'm going off what I see in terms of stats in patient posted results. I guarantee 100% if anyone added up all the Rahal patient posted results on this website from over the past 3 years they'd reach the same conclusion. Also I again have to emphasise that if you're looking at a clinic like Lorenzo's, Erodan's or Diep's which are absolutely churning out huge amounts of posted results, its not exactly a surprise its easy to find duds, or that when you're comparing Konior who has *literally* less than a tenth of their results to look at online he has virtually no duds. Its very unlikely that a tech at Rahal or any other top surgeon that uses techs is one day going to yield terrific results, and suddenly forget how to do their job the next day. Its much more likely that there are other underlying reasons for said poor result. Look at Keser and Lupanzula who have their share of poor results, despite the fully hands on approach.
  14. I read from one of Rahal's reps on another forum that Rahal has lowered the extent of his dense packing over the years as he felt it potentially compromised yields in some cases, while of course looking spectacular in others. In terms of recent cases, I don't think any surgeons are packing as Densely as Hasson in particular. Potentially 20% above what I see from any other surgeons in first pass procedures. OP, to be honest I think that at 6 months and looking at those close-ups it's unlikely this will down the track reach the point of an above par result, however I think the people that are being put off Rahal from this result don't understand statistics. More people need to wake up and do their research across multitudes of surgeons and patient posted results, because when they do they're likely to realise that the success rates in terms of above 90% yield hair transplants for 1-2/10 don't occur. This includes surgeons who do the full procedure themselves without technicians involved in surgical aspects, for that reason I find it extremely unlikely that bad results occur simply due to carelessness. Although I do find the slippery graft issue odd here. I lol every time I see someone mention Konior in terms of optimal success rates, he's an incredible surgeon and I myself would consider him strongly for a future procedure, but the guy has only 2-3 patient posted results each year. This isn't enough to make any sort of precise judgement on consistency when he's doing hundreds of procedures a year. Every surgeon that has 2-3x this many patient posted results similarly has plenty of sub-par results to look at, I doubt that's a coincidence. Tbh I also don't think Konior's hairlines are as aesthetic as Rahal's either, although both top-tier.
  15. Flat no, time to get a transplant. If you're obsessed with blowing five grand on a procedure that no one in your case has got worthwhile cosmetic benefit out of in history, put it in Bitcoin instead and hope for the best. Most sensible option is to use that money to put towards going to the surgeon of your choice. You're likely going to require multiple transplants so its even more of a waste to put thousands of dollars into a treatment that won't help you if your current steroid level hairloss regimen doesn't. Go straight to HnW and forget anything like this which virtually amounts to the power of prayer.
  16. No, because the length is completely different. The two photos I used are similar in lengths and lighting and the second more recent, therefore more accurate for referencing, also it wouldn't make a difference that its right after surgery. The one above is not directly below the harsher lighting shining directly on it and your hair looks much longer. But I really think you need to look at the professional quality post/preops that the clinic took, and if there are none that would be a serious red flag.
  17. Scabs will almost certainly not be coming off on the second day, even if you went in for a wash, cleaning etc. Again there is a possibility that the photos are somehow so bad I am not seeing what is going on, but even in terms of refinement and the size of the scabs, bloodied areas etc the work to me does not appear of a high standard, I doubt I'm missing any visibility of entire grafts somehow. Also for getting 2000 grafts in the crown, it would be idiotic not to shave the recipient area and the only reason I can think of why they didn't is to make it easier to get away with charging you for more grafts than were placed. What makes me suspect this moreso is the fact that if I compare these two photos from two month post-first op to final result of the first op, again it looks like you have had substantially less than 2900 grafts yielded. Perhaps around 500-1000 maximum. For example if I showed 99% of the posters here these two photos on a fake account and told them that this was pre-op first procedure, and the second photo the first day of my first op, they would 100% believe it without a second thought. Again I'm not guaranteeing anything, but from these (bad) photos I feel very confident of what I'm saying. I would absolutely take what I'm saying into serious consideration. Did the doctor take high quality before and after photos with high resolution and detail visible? You need to find them and take a look.
  18. If fin, keto shampoo, laser, derma and lipogaine minox don't grow hair for you (from the sound of it you're already almost completely hairless on top?), don't blow a cent on PRP because its virtually assured you'll see no benefit. If you have the money to even consider blowing $5500 on PRP, take your money and consult HnW or Rahal (both on the cheaper end also) for the potential of a large FUT procedure for yourself. All of these treatments you mention actually cost a reasonable amount of money and require consistency, imo drop every single one except for finasteride, and get a transplant.
  19. For anyone that is crazy enough to believe that there are 2000 grafts here, I have a bridge to sell you. Good photo quality or otherwise, OP clearly did not get the number of grafts he thinks he did. No amount of trying to explain through other means will get around this.
  20. Hairline looks terrific, but imo this is a perfect example of why temple work should be a last resort for someone with serious recession issues to the point hairline work wouldn't be natural without it. There is a giant difference between the texture of the transplanted temple hair and the natural temples that imo someone off the streets could pick out. It also draws attention to the different texture of the transplanted hairline, which usually isn't an issue because it is naturally different than the temple hair. If the temples are going to be transplanted, the entire area should be rebuilt such as not to leave such a wide contrast immediately visible such as in this case. The bottom of the temple as in the design markings has been left natural and the upper area transplanted which makes this an issue.
  21. I don't know for sure but in my honest, and educated judgement from looking at endless results your second procedure post-op looks like it has only a few hundred grafts. If 70% of that 2850 went in the crown, I am 99.999% sure you did not get 2000 grafts there, almost certainly under 1000. Also strongly suspect you lost a lot more hair after dropping Rogaine. As I said I think its virtually undeniable you weren't given as many grafts as you're told unless the photo is somehow completely missing everything (admittedly the pics aren't great) and after dropping Rogaine you have lost more hair than the second procedure could have ever given you with whatever small amount of grafts you got in reality.
  22. Hi Everybody. I have previously had a 3000 graft FUE at ASMED 12 months ago, linked here: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/186728-asmed-koray-erdogan-3070-grafts-april-10th.html Overall very satisfied with the results from the first procedure, but still wanted to address the crown which was previously untouched, as well as density issues in some areas of the previous transplant, and create a slightly more aggressive hairline with more youthful closure at the temples, including an alteration to the overall design. Some background on my situation, I was initially a NW3V diffusing in a NW5 pattern that is very noticeable when wet but not an issue dry and with longer hair, 22 years old at the time, and had stabilised on finasteride. First procedure was solely for the hairline and created a slightly conservative NW 1.5-2 with 3070 grafts. My donor had roughly 9500 grafts to begin with and I am left with potentially another 2000-3000 after the second procedure, but the clinic suggested this is impossible to know for sure unless it is analysed 12 months down the track. In online consult 2000-2500 grafts were suggested for crown and frontal work, but in person Koray thought 3000 would be worthwhile to create a significant improvement in both the crown frontal third. Ultimately suggesting 1500 in the frontal third and 1500 in the crown. He also seemed impressed with the standard of my donor after the first procedure. Some stats on the second procedure: 3038 grafts – Hair/Graft ratio: 2.1 (quite a bit lower than the first time round) Average Hair Thickness – 50 microns Singles - 557 Doubles - 1709 Triples - 697 Quadruples - 74 Quintuples - 1 Sextuples - 0 Minor points, this time I stayed at the hotel rather than the clinic and preferred it quite a bit. Very comfortable and calming, good food for very cheap prices and there's a lot of options for places to visit a quick walk away also. That said the clinic room was very convenient. Of course as with last time the clinic staff and my clinic supervisor were very accommodating. A few have mentioned forgetting to covert some Euros to Lira upon arrival to Istanbul, the clinic was happy to convert right there and for a good rate too, so don't worry about doing so at the airport. Another point, from a front view and in dimmer lighting the very tight buzz the clinic bring the hair down to reflected that the previous work looked very natural and had no visible density issues, although from a top view seen in the clinic photos there's a noticeable difference in density between the areas with natives and those previously implanted. Noticed the same in cases like Yas and acegik who both went for 2nd procedures at ASMED, although not a huge issue unless you're planning to constantly having people looking at the top of your scalp. The donor scarring from the first procedure was also clearly visible when the scalp was buzzed to a zero, not that this is a problem or unexpected as one shouldn't go in assuming FUE is scarless or that they could get away with a buzz that tight to begin with. Just a point to note. Hair was in significant need of a cut when going in for photos, so note it also didn't look its best by any means
  23. In the title, Koray Erdogan at ASMED in Turkey.
  24. Its things one might take for granted pre-hairloss particularly after the second procedure, simply being able to go about my day without considering hairloss, I vividly remember going to the cinema once to see one of my favourite films prior to any transplants at 22 and spending virtually every minute thinking about my hair or judging the hairlines of those in the film. Another particularly memorable moment was going to pick up a package from the post-office for my 55 year old father as a 22 year old and the person at the counter asking if I was his brother. Even things like ordering a coffee can be a nightmare when you're a 22 year old with a diffused NWV3. I'm sure some people might think it sounds silly and bring up "its just confidence brah" (it isn't), but things like walking down the street or being on the bus and getting smiles or looks from attractive girls, same situation when ordering a coffee etc. Prior to surgery ordering food/drink a girl serving would noticeably look away or refuse eye contact, be visibly unhappy, awkward and unsure of how to handle themselves. Its truly like living in a different world where in one everyone is an asshole and dislikes, ignores or just wants you out of their way, in the other everyone is friendly, respectful and helpful. Same with long term friends, both male and female. They'd be less interested in hanging out, less honest especially emotionally (particularly girls), awkward and constantly avoid eye contact. When you go from having perfect hair at 18, to being virtually bald at 22, and back to being in a similar range to your average 24 year old subsequent to that, the way people judge and treat you based on hair becomes extremely noticeable. So its largely not having to think about hairloss everyday, and secondly being treated as an equal or respectable person by others, such that you no longer feel inhibited by hairloss, when I clearly was while enduring it. Both easily understandable when fundamentally I looked ugly, unintelligent and a sorry sight without hair (and whether anyone can admit it that's the same for most people), with hair I look slightly above average. The reality is that's what it gets down to, hairloss ages you a decade minimum, looks incredibly unattractive, makes you look less intelligent and friendly, often implies sickness or bad genetics, and can suddenly make certain facial features stand out and appear ugly when prior they looked normal.