paleocapa89

cenkoa01 Instead of calling me a liar, and stating that I am falsely accusing the clinic please provide counter arguments and reasons to defend your point. By the way, here is a picture that you uploaded and Dr Doganay is standing on my right side, and the tech is standing on my left side. But as I said it doesn't really matter, cause I often had to switch and when I am laying on my stomach the sides change. Anyway please answer me this question, this might interest the community as well: what kind of magnification do the techs use when they are handling, dissecting, and loading the grafts into the implanter pens. Because in the picture you uploaded it seems they aren't using anything.

cenkoa01 please stop lying. You know very well that my procedure was done in two separate days. First the right side of my head and the second day the left side of my head. Are you saying that since Dr Doganay is left handed he can only do the left side of my head? That is ridiculous. Not to mention that it is easy to switch the right and the left side. Sometimes I had to lay on my stomach and sometimes on my back. The sides switch when I switch. I probably received many grafts on both sides from the tech and from Doganay as well. But I especially remember when the tech was doing my left temple because I found it very disturbing that Dr Doganay left the room but the procedure continued.

Turner, it is exhausting to counter every false statements you wrote about me. Please read my previous answers. I don't know what is your agenda with attacking me, go on to your own thread and be happy with your results. No I didn't go to two different clinics for consultation. I went to a local not recommended no-name clinic to talk to a doctor to be my post-op doctor since I do not live in Turkey. Since I was uneducated, at that time I thought everything went well. I seemed to be eligible for a hair transplant. I didn't know at that time how important is to check the miniaturization pattern and the donor capacity in order to make an informed decision and place the hairline and build up a plan utilizing that crucial information. Believe it or not, I had other things to do and to research before my hair transplant. I was indeed uneducated I was amazed by the promise of the "quick fix FUE" and I trusted a doctor blindly because I was raised to trust doctors. Now I am well researched and I know more about hair transplants and the industry that I wished to know. Maybe they didn't ask you for the money, maybe they trusted you more for some reason?? But they did ask me to transfer the money in time so it arrives 10 days before the procedure. Yes I have very minimal result compared to what people usually have by the 5th month but I will document it till 12 month whatever happens. Chill. cenkoa01 I didn't correct anything. It was you who stated that Dr Doganay only did 65% of the implantation, and I still state that my left temple was done entirely by the tech and I consider the left temple a crucial part of the hairline.

I understand that for the community and for prospective patients the most important fact is that different technicians are doing all the extraction and a major part of the incisions as well. And this leads quality issues. However, for me the fact that I was not assessed and informed is just as important. After all, I could have avoided this whole situation if I were assessed properly. I understand people are getting tired of this aspect of the dispute, however it was questioned whether I tell the truth and I have to defend myself. Now Muslum and the clinic try to depict me as someone who was informed and warned not to have a HT but I insisted, and they had a bad feeling about this from the start, Let me quote his email response when I asked them on what bases did they consider me an eligible patient: To sum up, this is what I got for my money: - got "assessed" by a sales rep and by assessed I mean we looked at pictures of my dad and brother - 100% of extraction done by nurses - 35% of implantation done by nurses - 65% of implantation done by Dr Doganay One could argue that only the result counts, but I am still lacking on that department as well...

It is very hard to follow, but basically the explanation is that they stay with their original story right? It's a joke.

Yes they did make me sign a form as I recall just before the procedure. It is easy to point to a paper that says "everything was explained". But I can only repeat myself: - talking to a sales rep about potential future hair loss given my family history can not substitute the proper assessment made by a doctor and there was no proper assessment of my donor capacity, density, diameter, miniaturization pattern etc. How could I be considered fully informed if these assessments were never made? I didn't even know about the crucial role of these types of assessments at that time, so of course I didn't find it strange that they were never carried out. - they recommended me the procedure and placed the hairline without this crucial information. and with the knowledge that I don't take propecia. Here is the consent that was given to me on the day of the operation.

Please don't beat around the bush Muslum. At the end of the day these are the facts: - talking to a sales rep about potential future hairloss can not substitute the proper assessment made by a doctor and there was no proper assessment of my donor capacity, density, diameter, miniaturization pattern etc. - you recommended me the procedure and placed the hairline without this information, - the extraction was carried out entirely by nurses - the implantation with the implanter pen (which means creating recipient sites and placing the grafts as well) was only partially done by Dr Hakan Doganay - the nurse who did the other part of the implantation not only placed grafts behind my hairline but into my left temple as well which is a crucial part of the hairline

This is from my online consultation form which I sent you the first place: " I am 26 years old male suffering hairloss since I was 17-18 years old. Sadly this is common thing in my family. My main problem area is my hairline which has receded visibly. Since I have a larger than average forehead my main goal is to lower my hairline and fill in my temples to a level, so my face gets a frame again. I have realistic expectations, I do not think my original hairline is achievable, but I want to improve the situation."

This is pure bullshit what you have just written Muslum and you know that. You never told me to go for just 1000-1300 grafts You didn't advise me to take medication either, I told you I don't take it due to sides and when I asked you whether you have to take it after the procedure you told me, no you don't have to you just take some biotin. Are you f.in kidding me? In your previous post you said that Dr Doganay checked my donor and it was good, (although by checking you mean Dr Doganay took a quick look at it) then now you are claiming that you told me my donor was weak? This is a simply a lie. You told doctor Doganay that you already discussed the possibility of future hairloss and that's why I don't need to be evaluated? Are you kidding me? Yes we talked about potential future hairloss due to my family history, that does not mean my CURRENT hair loss and miniaturization pattern does not need to be checked. And I never wanted to lower my hairline not even where it used to be and I told you I have a naturally high forehead, I even told you that I know my original hairline is not achievable: I showed you and Dr Doganay a bunch of pictures of how my hair used to be before and how my dad and my brother lost his hair and when you asked what I wanted I said this exactly: I just want something to better frame my face, you are the doctor, you have the experience, what do you recommend? I also wrote this in my online consultation form which I sent you the first time. No you did not tell me to think it through again, in fact you told me that I have to transfer the money fast so it arrives at least 10 days before the procedure. You are trying to make me look like I had all the information and you were warning me and trying to protect me and you had a bad feeling about this since the first day you met me and I just insisted and you couldn't do anything.

Dear Dr Hakan Doganay, as I see you are cherry-picking some arguments that you state you have counterarguments to but in reality you are often bending the truth to fit your story. I didn't want to attack your clinic and clearly I didn't want to take our dispute to the forum at first. I repeatedly asked you questions over email which you always evaded. Can you answer them now? I have no benefit in doing this but it seemed the only option to pull some answers out of you. Yes I did some research before I chose you but obviously not enough, otherwise I would have never chosen a place where technicians do most of the procedure. To be precise I have read Swooping's thread where he explained why he split his procedure to two and I thought it made sense, so I opted for it as well. He had amazing results, so I thought if I do exactly the same, maybe I'll have good results as well. I know I was naive. His good results are probably from Dr Doganay doing all the procedure. Yes I also visited briefly another HT doc in my area who I discovered, were fired a few weeks later by the way so I didn't really give credit for her. She took a quick look at my head and quoted me a number of hairs and said some of them should be put in the vertex to "future proof it". To think about it retrospectively, you are right, it was her way of warning me for some thinning, I should have listened to her more carefully. I admit that. Anyway, I wasn't really interested in her opinion as she was not an IAHRS or a recommended surgeon and she was fired sometimes later. Digging up an old email to show that I didn't need to be told and I should have been fully aware of the severity of my current hairloss and miniaturization pattern because some other HT doc wanted to put some grafts to my vertex is a weak defense. The fact that you went all the trouble to dig up in long email thread what an other doc told me only shows me that you have no other argument against the fact that you didn't assess and inform me properly. Do you know what would have been an acceptable counter argument? For example this: We did all the necessary examination, we checked you for the miniaturization pattern and your donor capacity and informed you about it. This clearly didn't happen. I was interested in your opinion and your opinion only, since I was paying you. I visited your clinic so you could check my eligibility for a hair transplant, And no, you did not say anything about any ongoing thinning. You took a quick look at my hair and quoted me a number of grafts. Please answer this question that I asked you many times: Given that I am very young, I have aggressive hairloss, both my father and my brother is a Norwood 5-6 (I even showed pictures about them) and I don't take propecia due to sides, what made me a good candidate for a hair transplant? Given that you never measured for donor density, donor capacity, miniaturization pattern etc, How could you inform me properly about my current hairloss situation and how could you responsibly quote me 2500 grafts to the front? How could you come up with a proper game plan? Can you tell me howmany grafts I have left? You are always evading these questions. Just to show you the severity of my future hairloss and why I am mad: As I said I wanted to split the procedure into two because I was inspired by Swooping's thread and he did that. That does not mean I didn't feel rushed. I could only see Dr Hakan Doganay for very little time before the procedure and I did feel rushed because of that. Even on the day of the surgery you came to me and asked to do the procedure in one day, which I didn't understand because we already agreed to split it. This is just not true. Yes, I have talked to Muslum since I could barely see Dr Hakan Doganay and even when I got to see him it was only for a couple of minutes. Muslum told me all the usual sales stuff like how his life changed after his hair transplant, how good it is that he does not need to take propecia, anymore and how Dr Doganay is a top quality doctor, on the top of the world with very few other doctors and how everybody is satisfied with him. Did you warn me to put off the operation, to take propecia for a couple of years to see how my hairloss reacts to it? No you didn't. In fact you told me that Propecia is not necessary. Did you warn me to put off the operation to see how my hairloss develops until I am 29? No you didn't. I never said you did not take a quick look at my head. Yes you did, but please answer this: How did you evaluate it exactly? Given that you never measured for donor density, donor diameter, donor capacity, miniaturization pattern etc, how could you responsibly quote me 2500 grafts to the front? And how could you place the hairline where you placed it? You are always evading these questions. Just a quick question: Call me paranoid, but looking at my donor I suspect that maybe more grafts were taken, could you please share howmany were taken exactly? (singels, doubles, multis) and what was the transection rate? This picture was taken after the second day so some of the extraction sites from the previous day have already disappeared right? Let's walk though the process how my hairline was created exactly. When I sent you my pictures over the internet you quoted me 2200 grafts. Then I visited your clinic in May and you without the proper evaluation drew a low hairline on my head and quoted me 3000 grafts. Then I asked you to go down in the number of grafts because I don't have enough money for 3000 grafts and you pulled up the hairline and quoted 2500 grafts. Then I went home and wondered whether I would get a better result with more grafts since that was the first thing you quoted me and maybe I should not cut corners on the procedure. Then we agreed in 2500 grafts. I want to emphasize here that if you properly assessed my hairloss you probably would not have quoted me 3000 grafts to the hairline! That is just insane! If I was properly warned about the current state of my hairloss I would have never wondered whether I should have 3000 grafts put to the front. I was wondering since that was the first recommendation of Dr Hakan Doganay and I was not informed about the severity of my ongoing hairloss. Let me remind you how low your first recommendation was: Then on the day of the operation (still no assessment of donor density, diameter, capacity, miniaturization pattern etc) Dr Hakan Doganay drew a low and uneven hairline on my head and I was almost sent to the operating room but at the last minute his assistant Muslum interfered and told him to pull my hairline up because it was too low Then I had literally just a few minutes to examine my 'last minute' hairline and was sent to the operating room. So it is not true you pulled my hairline up because you wanted to save grafts, you pulled it up first because I couldn't pay for 3000 grafts and you pulled it up just before the operation a little bit further because the REPRESENTATIVE interfered and told the doctor it was too low and it didn't suit me. And to my surprise, pulling up my hairline last minute cost me exactly the same amount of grafts (2500) then before so by pulling it up you didn't save me any grafts for the "future hairloss" as you state it. Yes you have a website that was constantly changing in the past few years. At first it stated that Dr Hakan Doganay did all the extraction and the implantation, then it stated that the head nurse does the extraction than it stated the technicians do the extraction and the head nurse does part of the implantation then it stated that technicians do the extraction and they also help with the implantation. When I was researching your clinic I was reading an earlier version of the website that stated that Dr Doganay does the implantation exclusively. When Xkos48 had his procedure few years ago the websites clearly stated that Dr Doganay does all the work (extraction and implantation) but the technicians did most of the work and he got a very poor result. I have no doubt that Dr Doganay is able to create great results but it seems that nowadays you are using different techs for each procedure for both extraction and implantation and that hits the consistency of the quality immensely. Anyone can check the different versions of the websites (own website, IAHRS page, hairrestorationnetwork physicians page) here: https://archive.org/web/

No one is denying that there can be satisfied expatients. Although their sudden appearance is a little bit suspicious. Although I can't speak of the quality of the pre-op assessment of the expatients it seem at least there were no quality issues with the outcome when Dr Doganay was doing all the procedure in the past. However the positive feedback (whether its true or fake) will not make my statements false. Neither about the lack of my assessment nor about the fact that currently the techs are doing most of the procedure, even the implantation, which clearly led to quality issues in the present.

Thanks for sharing your story, but please allow me to be skeptical about your motives. You went through all the troubles to register, find my thread, read it through, find your pictures from 3 years ago upload them and share a story of how considerate, careful and conscious, Dr Doganay was with you. Even if your story is completely true, and you have no affiliation with the clinic, Dr Doganay's behavior in 2012 can not be an excuse for his negligence in my case in 2015. Not to mention that your procedure was probably carried out entirely by him, not like mine which was done mostly by technicians. Thanks for trying to cheer me up, I have very little growth, but however this whole thing turns out, I will document my case and my dispute with the clinic until 12 month. Anyway, I am glad you had a good result and you are happy with it.

It's been quite some time now and we are still waiting for the clinic's response...

bumping this

interested in this thread as well

me too

Do you think the fact that technicians - probably - without a medical degree carried out a medical surgery on me is legally prosecutable or it's "just" highly unethical and unprofessional?

yes, I am 100% sure. Supposedly, some time ago all the implantation was done by Dr Doganay. Now even his profile states: "Dr. Doganay prefers to place grafts in the crucial hairline areas himself while he gets help from experienced technicians for the remaining ones and place the grafts together" Although a little later it states this: "Dr. Doganay then carefully places all the grafts himself into tiny recipient sites using the pen implanter." Dr. Hakan Doganay*Hair Transplant Surgeon in*Antalya,*Turkey One of the reason I chose Dr Doganay was because I thought he makes all the implantation, when I chose him, his profile stated that. But I got plenty grafts from the technician everywhere, even in my left temple. It is easy to spot them cause they curl in every direction, I even got a bunch of double and triple grafts in the temple as well. There was a time during the implantation when Dr Doganay even left the room and the implantation was carried on like nothing happened. And yes they are using implanter pens.

yes, both days young nurses did the extraction and Dr Doganay only partially did the implantation. For most parts of the operation he wasn't even there.

I have very little hope as well I try to be realistic, and not get my hopes up. I have been through hell during the last 5 months and I could not deal with another disappointment. Swooping Yes I saw your unbelievable result, you were one of the main reason I ended up choosing Dr Doganay. Now after researching, it seems you are basically the only person I could find with that kind of result that was not uploaded by the clinic. I was told the extraction was done by "Fatma Can" although my procedure was separated into two days and I am sure that different nurses did the extraction each day, so I don't really know.

Hey wylie I would like to add one comment. I think you are biased by your knowledge in the field of hair transplants. Try to assess the case as if you know nothing or very little about the subject. If you were a young guy who is emotionally influenced by hairloss and wants his hair back. I went to Dr Doganay to have him evaluate my hairloss situation and to check my eligibility for a hair transplant. I am 26 years old, I described how early I started to lose my hair (18), that my brother and father have both lost most of their hair (I'd say norwood 5-6) I showed a bunch of pictures of them and I also told I can not take propecia. He took a quick look at my hair and asked what I wanted and I told him, "just something to better frame my face, you are the doc, what do you recommend?" And then he drew a new hairline on my head. And obviously I was thrilled by the thought that I am seem to be a good candidate for a hair transplant and I can get my hair back. Did he check my donor density? donor capacity? hair diameter? miniaturization pattern? Did he explain to me how a long term plan should be made based on the donor capacity and the miniaturization pattern and the hairline should be placed accordingly? No he did not. These are all things that I learned after the procedure and I know now. I was uneducated and I hate myself for that every day. Yes, ultimately I had to agree to the hairline design but I was not properly assessed and informed and was rushed into a decision. Dr Doganay always seemed to be going to procedures and had very little time for consultations.

approaching 5 months I have barely any growth, just a bunch of double and multi grafts growing on my hairline and curling in every direction. I have sent the pictures to Dr Doganay as well, with a bunch of questions attached.

Thank you for proving my point.

Dear Bill, I agree with you, that shifting from purely doctor based extraction and implantation to using techs does not necessarily mean that those techs have no previous experience in those fields. It was just a general wondering since somebody stated (maybe the clinic itself) that Dr Doganay have been using the same techs for years now. If that is true, at some point they had to start performing the extraction. As you wrote, the clinic got its recommendation based on Dr Doganay's personal involvement in the procedure. Then they changed their description to state that the head nurse does the extraction, than they changed it again and now it says the techs are doing the extractions. The same thing happened with the implantation. And it seems the changes in the the technique preceded the change in the description. When Xkos48 had his procedure the description still said that Dr. Doganay did all the procedure but in reality the techs did most of the work. In general, I think much more transparency, strict quality control and real time information is needed in terms of the techniques, processes and the staff as well. It should be mandatory to do all the necessary measurements in terms of donor capacity, donor density, hair diameter, miniaturization pattern etc. It should be also mandatory to share exactly who's gonna work on your head and what experience he/she has with CV etc. And clininc's sould signal immediately when something changes. I think it is not okay to pay the price of a doctor's brand and then have the procedure carried out by unknown technicians almost entirely. Anyway, keep up the good work.

There's no need to call names. I did not call you a liar, I simply stated that the two photos had different time tags so you probably didn't took them just for me. One was taken at 15.23 your time and the other one was taken at 17.01 your time. Anyway, at least you are not living in Turkey and you clearly manage your own account. I am glad that you are happy with your results, but why are you still here attacking me? I am sorry if I offended you but you have to understand that after all the things that came up about the clinic I am more suspicious and harder to trust anyone.