paleocapa89

I think you should only get a HT if your balding pattern is finalized. so then you can measure your donor capacity and plan from backwards. Or if your pattern is not finalized yet, it should be assessed, predicted (by family history and by checking hair miniaturization) then your donor capacity should be measured and a plan should be carried out from backwards accordingly. But in this case you should commit to taking propecia. I think anyone who does not fit the 2 category should be denied by an ethical doctor.

haha, I agree, that I should have never been recommended and had a HT concerning the fact that I told Dr Doganay that I don't take propecia due to sides. And yes, it seems people in general should never have a HT unless they agree to take propecia. Period. There are so many little details that I have just learned now. In fact I might create an other thread where I compile all the things I have learned.

Please, don't take my hope away I've read that there are so many thing in research pipelines: Replicel, Histogen, Allergan, JAK inhibitors, dermall pappilla cloning, hair follicle cloning. Something got to work finally, I cant accept that the closest thing to a cure is something that has been on the market for decades and has the potential of killing your di*k. The market is enormous and whoever comes up with something that actually works will make billions.

awfully quiet around here..

Hi esrec, thanks for asking. I am indeed better, thanks to the proper medical care I received, (not from Doganay) and my recipient area is now only slightly red and not inflamed anymore, however I only see minimal growth. Now I am waiting until 12 months and my next steps will be determined whether I get a cosmetically acceptable result or not. If I get then I will probably have a few good years until my hair falls out in a norwood 5-6 pattern and I either have to shave or get another HT with that in mind I only have very limited donor left. However if my result will be cosmetically unacceptable then I don't get to enjoy even those few years and I will need to do something, again shave or HT. If I chose to shave I will probably need to do SMP into the FUE scars. To be honest, this whole experience was a nightmare to me and put me back years with my life and my career. As much as I love having hair I don't think I could go through with another operation. Maybe I need to accept that I am bald - at least temporarily - and hope that in 10 years they eventually come up with a cure and I get to enjoy having hair again when I am 36.

I have found some interesting stuff about Dr Doganay again. It has been discussed that he "recently" started to use techs first for extraction then for implantation as well. It seems that he was using them for both part of the procedure long before he publicly admitted it. According to his own website he claimed that he personally extracts and implants all the grafts at least until October 2014 https://web.archive.org/web/20141024163348/http://hakandoganayfue.com/ and according to his physician page on the hairrestorationnetwork, he claimed to extract and implant all the grafts at least until Ferbruary 2015 https://web.archive.org/web/20150204194956/http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/Consult-a-Physician/doctors.asp?DrID=668#page=page-1 However, according to Xkos48, BFA316 and fueman, who all had their procedures in the end of 2013 / beginning of 2014 techs were heavily involved in their procedures. According to two of them the techs not only did the extraction, but they were knocked out during the implantation and when they woke up they found that techs were doing the implantation without Dr Doganay even being there: This is from BFA316: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/173749-4-500-fue-dr-hakan-doganay-07th-march-2014-a-2.html This is from fueman: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/173749-4-500-fue-dr-hakan-doganay-07th-march-2014-a-4.html I think this is a clear case of fraud or maybe even criminal felony.

you have written: "I think you're right you can sometimes be blinded by a positive experience you've had with a particular doctor." As if CJD said you can be blinded by the positive experience and you agreed with him. He clearly didn't say such thing but the opposite.

Read his post again and do not try to twist what he says. It is not what his post is about at all. This is what CJD wrote:

I do believe when you use the word "recommend" , you actually vouch for the recommended. That's what the word recommend means and implies. However, I think the joke's on us. If you read the Terms of Services you'll find this: "...The physicians suggested on our Web Sites are to the best of our knowledge quality hair restoration physicians. However, Media Visions cannot vouch for these physicians, their experience, their credentials or the quality of their care...." "...Web Site visitors are expected to do their own due diligence and research in selecting a physician and/or treatments. Media Visions and the Web Sites, and their employees, our partners, affiliates, sponsors, providers, licensors, or merchants make no warranties or guarantees, express or implied, as to the results or quality of care provided by the physicians or treatments presented on these Web Sites. We expressly disclaim any liability arising from consultation with, or treatment from, any of the physicians and their clinics presented on these Sites. ..." ..."THE WEB SITES CONTAIN FACTS, VIEWS, OPINIONS, STATEMENTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS OF THIRD PARTY INDIVIDUALS AND ORGANIZATIONS. THE SITES DO NOT REPRESENT OR ENDORSE THE ACCURACY, CURRENTNESS OR RELIABILITY OF ANY ADVICE, OPINION, STATEMENT OR OTHER INFORMATION DISPLAYED, UPLOADED OR DISTRIBUTED THROUGH THE SITES. ANY RELIANCE UPON ANY SUCH OPINION, ADVICE, STATEMENT OR INFORMATION IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK..." I believe if the website disclaims any kind of responsibility they should not use the word recommend, but rather display the physicians as business affiliates.

I agree everything you have written CJD! Everyone should read it.Too bad 90% of the people won't find it on the 36th page of this thread and 50% the people who find it won't have patience to read it through. That is why it is so pivotal what type of easily accessible, short messages does this website present to the prospective patients, like "recommended surgeon". It carries enormous responsibility.

We have talked about how rushed we felt the whole procedure is. I read that the extraction of the grafts is a delicate process because whoever does it have to mach the exact angle and depth of the follicle, which sometimes can be hard, because the graft might have a curve under the skin. I would like to get a professional opinion on a video that shows the extraction procedure. It starts at minute 1. http://www.fuetur.ru/images/video/HT15SDRU.mp4 Is this speed normal for extraction?

don't get me wrong, I agree with you completely. I just tried to find an explanation why the clinics are often offering free procedures and don't seem to be so keen on giving refunds after a failure. Not to mention if a clinic gives a refund, then it basically acknowledges that it was his fault. However, if it offers you a free procedure then it can be interpreted as "something went wrong and the clinic is doing everything it can to solve the problem and make the patient happy"

This whole post resonates so much with my experience. Being rushed, not getting adequate attention - and in my case not being assessed and informed properly - and just pushed through the whole procedure like you were a piece of material on a conveyor belt. Even the uneven/poorly planned hairline and the tech touching it up after the procedure is the same.

hey Stig no I don't, and frankly, I do not want to continue digging, it took a lot of my time and this whole experience has caused me a lot of stress, I just want to move on. But I don't want my story to be futile and I want to help prospective patients make an informed decision. What I don't want to see is this whole thing getting slowly forgotten, like nothing have happened.

I think economically it makes sense from the doctor's point of view. This is probably a high fixed cost - low variable cost business. He probably pays a fix salary for his staff, a fix rent monthly etc. That is why they strive for maximal utilization. Giving back money would decrease profit but transplanting 1600 grafts more in a month for free will only cost some free time of the doc, maybe some extra time for the staff. And if the doctor truly believes he can fix the failure, then making the patient happy is probably a better long term investment for him than giving back money. Dissatisfied patient whether he gets his money back or not is not good for a clinic.

I think the answer is very simple: People don't know enough about hair transplants, usually they are uneducated and the percent of involvement of the doctor is usually not highlighted by the clinics either. We are conditioned to trust doctors and believe what they say, recommend and do is in our best interest. Would you ask a doc when you are taken to an appendectomy who's gonna do the anesthesia, who's gonna do incision, and who's gonna do the stitching? And how many years of experience do the techs have? No you won't. Some might even feel uncomfortable for asking questions that may seem to show distrust. And the clinic's probably know this very well and won't telly you voluntarily that the doctor's involvement is minimal, and then they make you sign a paper that says you were fully informed before the procedure. My thread was mentioned in a previous post and I am glad if my story can contribute to a debate about whether is it ok when techs play a major role in the procedures. However, without belittling your concerns and defending Dr Feriduni I want to highlight some differences between the two cases. In my case, I got minimal attention from Dr Doganay preop, he didn't assess my miniaturization pattern or my donor capacity at all, he just took a quick look at my head, recommended me 2500 grafts and drew a hairline on my head. Then when my hair started to grow back on my shaved head, it turned out, I have an extensive miniaturization pattern and not enough donor to compensate for it. With that knowledge, he either should not have recommended me a procedure or should have planned the hairline much more conservatively. I believe the negligence and the lack of assessment is not the case regarding Dr Feriduni. In my case Dr Doganay used techs with little experience to do 100% of the extraction, (and the techs were rotating) and also used techs to do a major part of the implantation, which (since Dr Doganay uses implanter pens) in this case meant that the tech was doing the incisions and the implantation as well. As I learned, making the incision is one of the most crucial part of the procedure, it requires anatomic knowledge, artistic ability and many years of experience to get the grafts in the correct depth and angle. Placing the grafts does not seem to be as hard a task. I have no idea how many years of experience Dr Feriduni's techs have in the field of extraction, but I tend to believe that they have more than Dr Doganay's. And it also seems that techs planting the grafts in the incisions that were made 100% by the doctor is often the norm - or at least not unusual - in the industry. (whether this is okay or not is another story) And last but not least, Dr Doganay produced a significant number of bad results, many of them can be clearly attributed to the extensive use of techs (overharvested donor, misaligned grafts, poor yield from the grafts implanted by the techs etc...) To my best knowledge this is not the case with Dr Feriduni. I do not want to belittle your concerns or defend Dr Feriduni, I just wanted to highlight some aspects that differentiates the two cases. With that said, I don't want to deny the possibility that your sub-par result is caused by the techs, but I think it can be misleading to draw a parallel between the two cases especially for readers who are not aware of every detail of the two cases. Anyway, I do believe that, if you don't want to take Dr Feriduni's offer of a free surgery then you should get a refund. Too many times it seems that HT docs and reps persuade the patients with showing selected best results while downplaying the possibility of a sub-par result. And when a below average result happens they say things like: "nobodody gets it right every time", and "it must have been the patients unique physiology" or "it is the X factor" shifting the responsibility to the patient. If sub-par results really only happen on rare occasions then they should be able to refund the money and still make a buck load of money right? I hope your concerns get resolved and I wish you all the best.

Is anything happening in this thread?

Turner, you seem to know an awful lot about Turkish hair transplant clinics. Is it impossible to do all the extraction and the implantation? You must be kidding me. I though Dr Doganay was doing all that impossible work a few years ago. And how come in many quality clinics the doctors are in fact doing all that impossible work? Would I call out any other doctor that did the same as Dr Doganay? Yes I would, But any other ethical doctor would have assessed and informed me properly. And probably would have denied me. Btw the redness and the inflammation has indeed improved, thanks to proper medical care I received. (not from Doganay) Thanks for asking.

Hi VancouvergGuy, I am glad my story has helped you make an informed decision. About harin: I honestly think he was just genuinely asking why his thread needs moderator approval before it goes public. I don't have much experience with this forum, but my threads didn't need approval when I posted them. Maybe it's something new, maybe creating a thread in another subcategory needs approval, I am not sure. This is to Bill and the forum operators: Concerning the implantation done by technicians: I am interested in your response. According to this website: you carefully review the recommended physicians based on several predetermined criteria. One of these criteria is: "Mastery and control of the orientation and direction of the transplanted grafts to achieve a completely natural appearance" Based on your own code, is it acceptable when a technician is doing the implantation? I presume the technician wasn't reviewed at all. Hair Transplant Surgeons, Doctors ands and Physicians selection criteria

Alright, maybe you are just often changing locations and that's what people interpreted as multiple locations, Maybe you and your agents are using multiple websites and multiple names to advertise the same service. There are still some statements which I find strange. Did Dr Doganay ever performed the extraction himself? You are stating that the head nurse was doing it since he is performing HT. Then later you changed the procedure and it wasn't even the head nurse anymore but an ordinary nurse. You said that Dr Doganay was always performing 1 max 2 procedures a day. You also said that "since Dr Doganay got famous" the demand increased but he didn't want to increase the prices. But it seems that he did increase the volumen that is why he is utilizing more and more techs in the procedure. If he did the same amount of work himself, maybe he'd be booked for several months ahead but he would not need the extra amount of technicians doing major part of the procedure. Where is he disappearing while the nurses do the extraction? So it just doesn't add up for me: He is still doing the same amount of procedures but hired techs to do it? This is for Bill and the forum operators: You state that you carefully review the recommended physicians based on several predetermined criteria. One of these criteria is: "Mastery and control of the orientation and direction of the transplanted grafts to achieve a completely natural appearance" Based on your own code, I think it should not be accepted that a technician is doing part of the implantation. Or was she reviewed as well? http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/Consult-a-Physician/our-hair-restoration-physicians.asp

I was wondering why Dr. Doganay is not doing the extraction and only do part of the implantation nowadays as his rep put it "since he got famous" Why doesn't he have the time if they are doing only 1-2 procedures a day as he stated? He supposedly did the same amount of procedures by himself before "he got famous" Where does he have to go? Where is he when the techs are doing the extraction? It bothered me that I remembered that I was told that Dr Doganay is doing more than 2 procedures a day in 2 locations. And other posters also remembered two locations, but Dr Doganay was denying it and stated they only have one location and he only does 1 or 2 procedures a day. So I researched. I think I may have found a possible explanation. It seems Dr Doganay is also involved in another clinic that is positioned to Russian patients. Here is it's website: FUETUR Russian knowledge or google translate is required but the site says that: the founder of the clinic Dr. Hakan Doganay "Head of our clinic - Dr. Hakan Doganay." The website also states this:"Our clinic hair transplant is in Antalya, on the basis of a major medical association Anadolu, which includes seven general hospitals. Hair transplant center has its own building, where the sterile operating theaters, patient wards for accommodation, rooms for consultations and other medical procedures." location: Havaalanı Bulvarı, G?zeloba Mahallesi, Sevin? Sokak, No: 9, Muratpaşa, Antalya So this location is definitely not the same where I had my procedure and what is stated in Dr Doganay's other website which is positioned for the English speaking patients: AHD Clinic | Hakan DOGANAY | Our Clinic WELCOME TO OUR CLINIC | Hakan Doganay Hair Transplant Turkey This english website clearly states that their location is: OFM Hospital Y?kseliş Dist. Mehmet Akif Street. Dokuma No:96 Kepez / ANTALYA Now does that mean that Dr Doganay is having multiple procedures in two different locations? Maybe. I admit it is not irrefutable evidence. But it would explain why Dr Doganay is using techs and disappearing during extraction. I am not stating that this is infact what is happening but on the site and on the social media sites it is stated: Who does the hair transplantation? "All transplantation in our clinic are conducted by experienced certified doctors transplant Dr. Hakan Doganay, Dr. Ayhan Colak, Dr. Ozgur Deniz Sucu. Together with a team of doctors medical assistants specially trained.” https://www.facebook.com/fuetur.ru/timeline [/url] https://twitter.com/fuetur Furthermore the site is showcasing some of Dr Doganay's results as well: Patient 1 FUETUR1 is the same as: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174418-dr-hakan-doganay-3108-grafts-after-12-months-fue.html Patient 2 FUETUR2 is the same as: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/173616-dr-hakan-doganay-4424-grafts-after-18-months-fue.html Patient 3 FUETUR3 is the same as: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/176141-dr-hakan-doganay-3404-grafts-15-months-choi-implanter-pen-fue.html Patient 4 FUETUR4 is the same as: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/171405-dr-hakan-doganay-3900-grafts-fue.html I don't know what all of this means and why they said they only have one location, when Dr Doganay seems to be involved in 2 clinics and 2 locations. Maybe Dr Doganay is having multiple procedures, maybe he is not, maybe he is using techs and disappearing to just manage his other clinic. But this does not increase transparency at all.

I am on lipogaine and regenepure. The reason why I am not willing to risk propecia is becuase I was on saw palmetto and I got ED and there is nothing more depressing than having a flaccid snake in your hand trying to make it come alive when there is a beautiful girl under you. Was it psychological or physiological? Who knows but it did take some time to be able to get rid off the sides and I figured propecia would be the same or even worse and I am not willing to take the risk again and maybe stay that way for good. And I clearly articulated this to Dr Doganay. I was thinking about trying topical fin, but then I read that it goes systemic and works basically the same way as the oral version.. I couldn't agree with you more. With both statements. And longer hair can indeed conceal your true hairloss situation. I believe that is why it is essential to check for miniaturization and donor capacity before any procedure. It is not that hard you just take a look at the patient's scalp with a special magnification tool. I think recommending HT and placing a hairline without this information is pure negligence.

I see a lot of people questioning me, and telling me I should have been aware of my own hairloss. I think many people spent so much time on these forums and researching HT-s that they forgot what it is like to be simply just young, uneducated, confused and depressed about hairloss. I just want to show you my preop picture that I sent to Dr Doganay before the procedure. I Some of you may say that I clearly had thin hair, but I always had thin hair and I wasn't aware how bad the situation is. Whether you believe me or not. Notice that I am even standing under light. I truly believe that when you visit a professional who makes a living out of treating hair, it should be their responsibility to carefully assess and inform every patient. It is not evident for everybody that they are indeed way down the road.

Thank you for posting this William those, who don't speak French, just copy-paste the text to google translator: greffe a antalya Merci pour tes interventions par rapport au Dr Doganay pour un temoignage complet sur le site avec une bonne pub je peux compter avoir quel tarif? car je t'avoue que voyager groupe ne me tente pas plus que ca et de toi a moi le plus cher n'est pas le prix du billet En ravanche j'ai 1000 messages a mon actif sur le site et je suis assez ecoute car j'ai pas mal de gens qui m'envoient des MP reguliers pour me demander des avis sur certains docs. Autant dire que si le doc me propose un prix canon je peux te dire que je lui ferai un tres bonne pub ainsi qu'a toi merci pour ta proposition je vais en parler avec le Dr Doganay et voir avec lui quel prix on peut te fixer. le plus bas possible car il est installer dans un hopital prive et la moitie de ce qu'il gagne va directement a la clinique et sur l'autre moitie il paye ses infirmieres 10 ses charges son materiel etc si nous te proposons un prix c'est que c'est juste le prix des charges car un coup de pub qu'en pense tu ? des demain j'en parle avec lui en ligne je comprend parfaitement Enzy que le doc ne peut pas perde de l'argent mais il faut plus le voir comme un investissement sur le futur je suis pret a signer un doc pour m'engager a faire une bonne pub pour lui, que je commence a faire d'ailleurs je suis tres actif sur ce site. j'ai deja oriente pas mal forumeurs chez certains docs j'attends ton retour ok 'j'en parle au doc comme convenu et je te tiens au courant sans soucis

I don't think you are bothering anybody. I am interested and I think it is a valid question whether the techs are using magnification when handling the fragile grafts. Here is a youtube video of Dr Doganay performing an operation and it seems the techs are not using any kind of magnification when handling the grafts. I don't know whether that is considered normal in the industry or not.