wazaam

Ditto!

Neither Dr E or Dr L offer Strip. I have consulted with both clinics recently and any objective unbiased person would agree if they did their research unless they had some sort of agenda. Anyone who is suggesting otherwise should really get their facts straight as some of these statements are are coming off as slander given the nature of this thread(s). We haven't seen any FUE physicians respond to this recent barrage of pro FUT threads as it is assumed they don't need to dignify any response nor do they have the time.

"What would 3000 fue cost at feller and bloxham? "They are PAYING CUSTOMERS and you wont give them what they want FUE" A 3000 FUE graft procedure with Dr Feller would cost $30,000.00 ($10/graft) according to his website. Based of that pricing alone I can't imagine a bunch of potential patients who are well informed lining up for an FUE procedure with Dr. Feller. Even if one (potential patient) had the choice in procedures to choose from Dr. Feller stated on his video "it isn't a patients choice at his clinic you aren't ordering off a menu" who would pay these type of prices? The pricing structure makes no sense in my opinion and there are clearly much better FUE (U.S. & abroad) surgeons to choose from, even if these costs were reasonable.

Sean, I would be interested to see your updated photos. What clinic in the states was recommended? As another poster commented, I think it may be in your best interst to wait 6-12 months and allow the scalp to heal and recoup. You have been through a lot in a short period of time. This is something you can consult with your next surgeon and I am sure they will have their own take on this. The short list I would consider for your case would be; Feriduni Maras Lorenzo Edrogan Dermisoy Hoping you get everything squared away with brilliant results with your next pass. Best of luck!!

I would NOT consider a Artas procedure with any surgeon. You can reference my results if you need any further confirmation. Frankly I have yet to see a "wow" or stand out result from any Artas procedure from any surgeon/clinic. H & W are excellent with FUT procedures but as several of the other posters have commented I would consider a FUE surgeon who specializes in FUE. H & W results may be fine as they gain more experience but I certainly wouldn't take the risk with all the great options there currently are. Most of the top FUE clinics/surgeons also offer much more economical pricing structures so you are getting better quality results along with the better value.

Hey mate, if you have not had ideal results so far is it worth going back to the same surgeon a third time? Have you considered one of the docs in Belgium who specialise in manual FUE? Agree. Sean you have exhausted a good deal of grafts in the hairline. I would strongly consider a FUE specialist at this point. Hopefully Dr. Rahal will take care of whatever costs you have to endure with a third procedure with a top FUE surgeon, or reimburse you for your previous failed procedures. Best of luck and hope you get the results you deserve!

If you are looking for FUE you have two great options in your area. Dr Vories Dr C (Atlanta) They both specialize in FUE. I would look into consulting with both of these surgeons if you are looking for FUE in the southeast U.S.

"I believe Dr Vories still uses the NeoGraft to score the grafts, but now delivers the grafts manually. I'm not sure if the average transection rates with NeoGraft are available somewhere, but that would give more of an answer." Dr Vories does not use the Neograft to score his grafts. He use the C. Vertex Punch which was confirmed by his patient rep. His FUE protocol is quite similar to that of Dr. Lorenzo's. "I also remember Dr Vories saying he will stop the procedure or recommend a different approach if he's seeing greater than 20%." This yield figure was in reference to Dr. Vories African-American patients. His clinic guarantees 85% graft survival rate or better.

So SMG didn't offer to repair/touch up the areas that you were concerned with?

Nice case. Crown looks great!

Have you considered a topical DHT blocker to avoid the side effects? __________________ Gillenator Independent Patient Advocate Gillenator, What topical DHT blockers do you typically suggest?

Dr Vories does all the extractions himself using the C. Vertex punch. This is a manual punch that is used by many top FUE surgeons. I believe this is the same punch that Dr. Lorenzo currently uses. Dr Vories spent some time with Dr Lorenzo and his FUE protocol is very comparable. KO, Dr Vories no longer uses the Neograft to score punches. He stopped using the Neograft in late 2014 (Oct 2014). He stated in a previous post that it was time to move on to manual extraction as he has become as efficient as he was when extracting using Neograft. As mentioned Dr Vories FUE protocol as well as pricing closely resembles that of the top Euro/Asia FUE surgeons. This is quite refreshing as there are very few options in North America that implement these protocols & reasonable pricing. The work of late has been exceptionally good and are likely the result of the change in protocol. There are NO other FUE surgeons in North America that have the same FUE protocol that I am aware of?

Neograft=NO!

Great result! Dr Vories is it possible to post some immediate post op pictures of the donor & recipient sites?

I would give the meds a try for several months and see how things go before jumping into a HT. KO made a good point and you should consider implementing a very conservative approach especially at your age. I would create a hairline with temple recession so you can get the most coverage out of those 5K grafts. It also would be wise to get your donor evaluated to see how many available grafts you have to work with. If your sides drop like your fathers you may need some future grafts to fill in those areas. If you do buzz cut in the future it would be an odd shadow if the sides dropped much. Most caucasian males average donor capacity is roughly 6-8K FUE grafts. Dr Vories no longer uses the Neo Graft for his extractions. He uses an .8mm Cole punch. He recently spent some time with Dr. Lorenzo and has implemented some of his FUE protocols. He may be one to consider if travel becomes an issue. Dr Edrogan is about as good of an FUE surgeon as there is in my opinion. He seems to be able to maximize the number of grafts he can get using manual punches. This is quite important in your situation. Several patients have been told by Dr E. that they can get as many 8-10K grafts which is impressive given that just a few years ago many stated that only 4-5K FUE grafts could be harvested. This again is an important factor in your case as you will likely need as many grafts long term as you can get from the scalp. Make sure you do your research and have a game plan in place for the long run. Best of Luck!

I would give the meds a try and see how you respond for a several months before considering pulling the trigger on a HT. As KO suggested it would be wise to take a conservative approach that way you have the abilty to pull off the buzz cut in the future which may be where you land long term. As he said one in your position should consider having the hairline created with some temple recession and that way you can get more coverage out of the 5K grafts which you will need. I would have the donor evaluated by a reputable surgeon to get an idea of how many grafts you have to work with. If the sides drop like your fathers you will need some grafts in the future to fill in those areas so you don't have an odd shadow even when buzzed. SMP may be an option if needed. Donor capacities can vary greatly but I think the rough average tends to be anywhere from 6-8K. This info is important for your long term planning. Also Dr. Vories no longer implements the Neo Graft to extract his grafts. He spent some time with Dr Lorenzo and has adopted some of his protocols which is exciting. He is currently using a Cole punch that is .80 mm on caucasian males based on a recent thread. If travel becomes an issue this may be a viable alternative. Dr Edrogan and his FUE results are about as good as it gets. If you end up in Turkey with Asmed I think you have chosen a fantastic surgeon & clinic. Dr E. seems to be able to maximize donor capacities and several patients have posted that they have been told they can get 8-10K grafts from their donor. Best of luck!

First, was there a reason why you had ARTAS one day and motorized the next? It doesnt make sense why a doctor would do it this way? Did you request ARTAS or motorized FUE per your consultation? I am not sure the strategy in regards to the first day Artas and the second day motorized manual? I requested manual FUE. FDA filings indicate ARTAS to be used for extracting dark hair, not blonde like yours? Was your hair dyed for the procedure? Obviously, this is another factor to think about. I am one of those guys that has varying colors of hair. I spend a lot of time outdoors in the sun with my work. In the winter my hair is a light/medium brown. The procedure was done in Jan. In the summer my hair gets a lot lighter sometimes as light as blonde depending how much time I spend in the sun. The images may have confused some as my hair appears to be different colors. I have never dyed my hair. Were ARTAS extractions done by the doc or all techs? Did a doctor oversee the extractions? The Artas extractions were done by a tech and there was a physician in the room. The physician was not someone I was familiar with at the time. A tech extracted the following day? If this a procedure that was done in USA then that can have legal ramifications against the clinic and doctor. Surgery especially donor extraction is suppose to be done by doctors only. Did a doctor oversee this extraction too? A tech carried out the extraction process with a motorized punch on the second day of the procedure.

Laser Cap is the least effective of medical therapies. First and best is Propecia (it's a personal decision to use it but doesn't have any side effects in case you want to have kids, etc), then Rogaine and then Laser treatment, which is most effective when used with other two therapy choices. Don't want to be negative but I'm not convinced these folks guided you correctly.... *Sold you a $2k laser (Finsateride - propecia generic - is cheapest and most effective - $2.50/month) In regards to the laser cap and the meds. The patient rep strongly suggested that I implement propecia as he felt it was very effective. I mentioned my previous sides and desire to plan for a family and didn't want to take it the time. As I mentioned in the past when I got married I stopped using propecia. I used it for seven years (been off for 6) and I am fully aware of the benefits it has for many men with MPB. The patient rep and I had several long conversations about this topic (propecia). I believe he is a long time user and the input he provided in regards to meds in my particular case has been very genuine and should be noted. The laser got brought up in one of our consultations and it was suggested it could help. I was not forced into purchasing the laser cap by the clinic or the patient rep. It was a personal decision I made. If used in conjunction with other meds their may be some benefit that I am not fully aware of? I have not tried it with anything else mentioned so I cannot comment one way or another. It was brought up on another thread and for me personally it has just added to the frustration as it wasn't cheap costing me $2000.

But what's the problem in sharing the surgeon name? My reasoning is quite simple I want as much objective feed back in regards to my results as possible. I think the mentioning of any clinic can sway one's opinion good or bad based on my experiences.

Wazaam are you a Rahal patient as he seems to hav had a few negative results posted on here recently? I have decided to keep that information private for now and gather as much objective input as possible. You still have a really good head of hair and I'm betting you have a decent number of grafts left in your donor area, so there are still options available to you. In this case I would ask for a partial refund and move forward and consider another surgeon who specializes in manual FUE extraction to beef up the front. I appreciate the kind words. I am hoping the donor is really strong. I did have a lot of multiple hair groupings that were extracted. I have asked the clinic several times about my donor capacity and they have only given vague estimates. I agree 100% in regards to manual FUE. In the hands of the right surgeon I think the yield can be comparable to that of FUT. This was my original intent going in as I stated in a previous post. I don't know of many viable manual FUE surgeons in North America so I may be forced to look abroad. At the time of my procedure I had a very limited amount of time I could be away from my work/family and this factored into my decision on clinic/surgeon to carry out the procedure. By the way, I note from another forum that you are not on Propecia since your marriage. That could be one contributing factor to you losing native hair through a combination of shock loss and your hair loss simply progresses. The clinic did sell me a laser cap for 2K. They stated they thought it would help. I have been using for 3X week 30 minutes per session. I am not sure that it has provided any benefit to date. I remain neutral about it's effectiveness. This was a point that got brought up on another forum. Here is my history with meds and my current regimen. I am currently 35 years old. I had the procedure done when I was 34. I took propecia from 22 to 29 but I stopped taking propecia when I was married (30) and have been off propecia for almost 6 years. I felt being off propecia for 6 years and nearly 35 my loss had stabilized for the most part. Hair Loss Regimen; Keto 2% 2 X per week Laser Cap 3 times per week Tricomin 3 X per week Vitamin B complex Zinc Biotin Azelaic AcidI experienced sides I dealt with the seven years that I was on propecia. I took 1 mg daily. Once my wife and I are done having children I am going to give strong consideration to trying a small dose of propecia or possibly RU58841 as more information becomes available. I think propecia is quite effective but it comes with it's setbacks. My hope as I have stated in other threads regarding meds is that patients have safer options in the future to help inhibit DHT in the SCALP.

Artas tends to have a higher transection rate than motorized manual. Why is a tech extracting and not a licensed doctor? Yes I am aware. I did research going into the procedure beforehand and suggested to the patient rep that I wanted manual FUE done. When I arrived at the clinic the protocol had apparently changed and the patient rep wasn't present the morning of my procedure. The surgeon stated the Artas "people" were also present to watch the procedure and that is how they would extract on day one. I don't think this was malicious on the part of the clinic rather the FUE protocol at the time of my procedure. In retrospect I obviously wish I would have spoken up and demanded manual FUE or postponed the procedure. Keep in mind a lot of the negative ARTAS feedback and posts didn't come to light until after I had my procedure done so I wasn't as knowledgeable as I am now. I also hadn't seen any of the ARTAS results as it was a newer tool. We have seen those results now and I personally have yet to see a decent one. There may be some out there that I am not aware of?? I think this was certainly a major factor in the result not yielding more grafts. I am not sure why the tech did all the extractions on day 2 of the procedure. I wasn't aware until it was recently pointed out to me by another forum member that a tech wasn't allowed to extract in the US. I asked about the techs status with clinic during one of my consultations and they stated he no longer works with them. The tech was a nice guy for what it is worth as I spent a lot of time with him (majority of the procedure) he seemed to be very knowledgeable and stated he has been in the business for many years.

This does appear almost too good to be true. This is only 4000 grafts on a patient with pretty decent amount of loss. I think the transection rate on this case must have been less than 5%. This may show the true value in using a manual punch when doing FUE. This result is on par with many top tier FUT results and at 60 microns (caliber hair) the patients hair was just above average. Lucky guy!!

I will bet who ever performed this procedure was not a specialist....and even allowed techs to do all or most of the surgery, including harvesting and site creation. Was the doctor very involved? Are they a specialist or do hair restoration as one more of their numerous services? The surgeon and clinic who peformed my procedure is a reputable hair clinic. I researched for over 3 years before choosing the surgeon. I am not sure if the FUE protocol is very consistent. I would certainly consider them a specialist as there is a lot of published work by the clinic. In terms of the surgeons involvement; Artas robot extracted grafts day 1 Tech extracted grafts Day 2 using a motorized punch Surgeon did the incisions and site creation Rotating techs cut the grafts and implanted Multiple procedures were taking place

Sean, In response to some of your questions; Im thinking you wanted some solidifying density up front? Yes given that I still had a decent amount of native hair I wanted to create a refined hairline and improve the density in the front 1/3. I thought with 2500 grafts placed in the recipient zone that would have been accomplished. Recipient placement and transection played a big role here, it could have also been extraction. How were your grafts extracted? Was this done in one day? Manual or motorized Fue? Were your grafts left out of body for a long time? You got blond hair, that usually makes things look even better after transplantation, or so ot should. The procedure was a two day session. The first day to the grafts were extracted by the Artas robot roughly 1100-1200 grafts. The second day the grafts were extracted by a tech using a motorized punch. Again there was roughly another 1100-1300 grafts extracted on day 2. I have not sure exactly how long the grafts were kept out of the body as I wasn't keeping track. As the procedure was split up into two days I can't imagine they were out of the body too long. I assumed with my hair/skin contrast the results would be more apparent. The caliber of my hair was described by average/fine. My hair does have a slight wave to it appears a little better than what it is and helps with coverage. Wazaam, what were your ultimate goals or what exactly did you pay for? Density? Filling in the front hairline and for increased density? At this point, i would also get in touch with the surgeon that extracted those grafts and ask for a remedy? Did you present your concerns yet? If not, they may give provide you with some help? Based on evaluating, the surgeon will probably understand your concern and help you out and try to rectify the situation. It's worth a shot to let them know as soon as you can. You can start to get an idea from feedback so far of the outcome. Definitely looks like more than 70% grafts could have not yielded, as the result is not an indicator of a distinct 2521 graft procedure in the zone shown, and thats being generous My goals as I stated previously were to fill in the frontal third and refine the hairline. The temple areas had receded quite a bit and needed to be addressed. There was some slight improvement there from the grafts that did yield. The hairline goals were to add density and refine. I have had a 6 month and 12 month consultation with the patient rep at the clinic. I expressed my concerns during both of those consultations. During my last consultation I expressed that I thought the overall result was quite poor. I even pointed out that the yield on the right side was so poor that I could still see some scalp. The patient rep stated they stood behind there work. I was offered a touch up of 200-300 grafts. I am not sure what 200-300 grafts what even do at this point? If we have already tried 2500 with little cosmetic impact it is my opinion that doing a touch up wouldn't do much for my case. If we throw in the fact that I still have native hair in these areas I may just be compounding the problem at this point? I have asked the patient rep both via phone consult and email to have the surgeon review my results and let me know his thoughts as I had some concerns. I have not heard from my surgeon at all since the procedure took place. I am not sure exactly the percentage that yielded but I would say it was a fairly low amount. There appears to be a lot of transection in my case on top of some of the native hair being lost or damaged. My goal when I created this thread was to get some objective feedback on my results. I obviously am not happy with the results but I wanted to make sure it wasn't me as I know cosmetic surgery and it's results are subjective. In looking towards the future I am not sure if it is in my best interest to pursue a repair or second procedure at this time as there is a lot of native hair to work around? Any feed back on this would be appreciated.

Great result! Are you using any meds?