Potential Recommendation of Dr. Pathuri Madhu of India

[Sandy4991]

Hi all,

 

after reading your comments i feel Dr, Madhu is best in India, bt i m a bit confused between Dr. Humayun & Dr. Madhu. who is better i know the difference is marginal can somebody help

 

Regards

[whirlwind]

HEllo Everyone

 

I've been a lurker on this site and recently signed up.

I am based in India and am currently doing research for a good HT surgeon.It's great to see that an Indian doc has finally been recommended by the HTN. All of Dr. Madhu's work seems legit but it is rather weird that all online records of him exist only post mid-2009.

 

I have a few questions for Dr. Madhu, the answers to which I believe would benefit others too. Therefore I am writing them here. Hopefully, Dr. Madhu will respond soon.

 

1. Dr. Madhu's website hairhospi.com states that they have an ISO 9001 certification. Dr. Madhu has himself stated on this forum that his clinic was fully ready only by end last year. It is rather hard to believe that they have managed to achieve an ISO quality management certification in less than a year. Dr Madhu: Can you point us to an online link giving more details about the same or post the certificate online?

 

2. Take a look at the following donor scars from a HT done by Dr. Madhu:

Hair Restoration Journal -Donar Scar Pics

Why are there TWO scars and why do they look so horrendous?

 

3. Most HT surgeons usually shave the recipient area before the transplant. Dr. Madhu's clinic offers an alternative where they do the HT without shaving off any hair on the recipient area for an extra charge of $400. Is this a standard practice the world over? Are the results one gets with and without shaving the recipient area the same?

 

4. Dr. Madhu's clinic charges $100 extra for dissolvable sutures. Aren't dissolvable sutures a de-facto part of HT nowadays? Why even make it optional?

 

5. Dr. Madhu's clinic charges Rs. 45/graft and insists on cash payment. When I called and insisted on paying by cheque/DD, the receptionist said they would allow a maximum of 40% by card/cheque/DD and the rest would have to be cash. I'm not even sure if we get a full invoice. I find this very odd and disturbing for an established practice that is apparently ISO 9001 certified.

Pls let us know the reasons for the same.

Edited October 30, 2010 by whirlwind
typos

[Bill - Seemiller]

whirlwind,

 

While we welcome and encourage all members to share their genuine experiences and ask legitimate questions, I can't help but wonder why you are publicizing questions that you should be directing privately to Dr. Madhu. If you are interested in Dr. Madhu, the prices he charges and/or clarification on his ISO 9001 certification and when he obtained it, I encourage you to contact him privately and ask him. Dr. Madhu is very personable and I trust that he'll have no problem answering you.

 

As to Dr. Madhu's donor scar technique and occasionally harvesting more than one strip (this is not a practice he performs on the majority of patients), Dr. Madhu already addressed his reasons for this on this forum. If you are indeed a long time lurker on this forum, I trust you've already seen it. However, to see Dr. Madhu's reponse to why he harvested two strips on Pratik, click here.

 

Many high quality physicians do not shave the recpient area during the hair transplant procedure and are still obtaining world class results. In areas of high density, physicians who don't shave will admit that the level of difficulty and time it takes to transplant goes up. This may explain why Dr. Madhu will provide this service but charge an additional nominal fee. I see no problem with this practice.

 

Desolvable sutures aren't always necessary. There are a number of suturing techniques from single to double layer closure and one isn't always more appropriate than the other. As to if Dr. Madhu offers it as an option at an extra cost and if so, why, feel free to email him with your questions/concerns and I'm sure he'll be happy to help you.

 

This community also can't address Dr. Madhu's policies on collecting payment for his hair transplant procedures. Thus, I encourage you to contact Dr. Madhu privately. Every physician has their own policies on payment and as long as the physician is being upfront about it, I see no problem with Dr. Madhu's requests for payment. Personally, I too wouldn't accept a personal check and find it a bit suspicious that you would insist on paying with one. Don't you know how many people write and bounce checks on a regular basis? But I'm sure if your'e a genuine prospective patient, that if you work with Dr. Madhu, you and he will be able to come to some fair arrangement.

 

I also find it a little suspicious that you referred to yourself as "we" and "us" in the last paragraph. That typically means you're representing someone or a larger organization. Please clarify:

 

"I'm not even sure if we get a full invoice. I find this very odd and disturbing for an established practice that is apparently ISO 9001 certified. Pls let us know the reasons for the same."

 

Dr. Madhu hasn't shared examples of his work on this community for awhile but his patients have. In seeing and speaking with him in person recently at this year's annual ISHRS 2010 scientific meeting (view highlights), I did encourage him to begin sharing additional examples of his work. Thus, I'm hoping that he will in the near future. That said, he did show me several recent examples (including a long-haired hair transplant procedure) on his laptop in the conference room between meetings and in my opinion, they were first-rate.

 

In my opinion, Dr. Madhu is very genuine and sincere about providing quality work and taking care of his patients.

 

Best Regards,

 

Bill

[Sparky]

Maybe hes referring to the community when he says "us" and "we"? Thats the way it came across to me anyway.

[whirlwind]

Hi Bill

 

whirlwind,

While we welcome and encourage all members to share their genuine experiences and ask legitimate questions, I can't help but wonder why you are publicizing questions that you should be directing privately to Dr. Madhu. If you are interested in Dr. Madhu, the prices he charges and/or clarification on his ISO 9001 certification and when he obtained it, I encourage you to contact him privately and ask him. Dr. Madhu is very personable and I trust that he'll have no problem answering you.

 

Thanks for the reply. As I stated at the very beginning, I am bringing up questions, the answers to which will help anyone who is interested in Hair Transplant in India and esp w Dr. Madhu. Dr. Madhu's email is answered by his staff and therefore I thought it would be a better idea to ask these questions on the forum. I have no malafide intentions and am in fact liked most of the results he has shown online. I might go to him for my own surgery.

 

 

As to Dr. Madhu's donor scar technique and occasionally harvesting more than one strip (this is not a practice he performs on the majority of patients), Dr. Madhu already addressed his reasons for this on this forum. If you are indeed a long time lurker on this forum, I trust you've already seen it. However, to see Dr. Madhu's reponse to why he harvested two strips on Pratik, click here.

I missed that. Thanks.

 

Many high quality physicians do not shave the recpient area during the hair transplant procedure and are still obtaining world class results. In areas of high density, physicians who don't shave will admit that the level of difficulty and time it takes to transplant goes up. This may explain why Dr. Madhu will provide this service but charge an additional nominal fee. I see no problem with this practice.

Fair enough. But I haven't seen any pictures online with HT done with existing hair unshaven. That's why I asked if it is a common practice.

 

Desolvable sutures aren't always necessary. There are a number of suturing techniques from single to double layer closure and one isn't always more appropriate than the other. As to if Dr. Madhu offers it as an option at an extra cost and if so, why, feel free to email him with your questions/concerns and I'm sure he'll be happy to help you.

The cost is not the issue at all. I just want to know the reason from his POV.

 

 

This community also can't address Dr. Madhu's policies on collecting payment for his hair transplant procedures. Thus, I encourage you to contact Dr. Madhu privately. Every physician has their own policies on payment and as long as the physician is being upfront about it, I see no problem with Dr. Madhu's requests for payment. Personally, I too wouldn't accept a personal check and find it a bit suspicious that you would insist on paying with one. Don't you know how many people write and bounce checks on a regular basis? But I'm sure if your'e a genuine prospective patient, that if you work with Dr. Madhu, you and he will be able to come to some fair arrangement.

Why would you find it suspicious if I prefer to pay with a cheque and insist on a full receipt rather than pay you with a bundle of cash? What if I pay before the surgery??

I would be suspicious of any business that asked me to pay everything in cash rather than white money. And mind it, we are not taking about a small amount. Rs. 100,000 - Rs 200,000 in rupees is a lot of money and notes!

 

 

I also find it a little suspicious that you referred to yourself as "we" and "us" in the last paragraph. That typically means you're representing someone or a larger organization. Please clarify:

I meant that 'we' as in the people on the forum.

Let me clarify: I am NOT associated with any person or corporation.

 

A final note: A lot of people here trust HTN and make choices based on its recommendations. As Dr. Madhu is the only surgeon in India recommended by your site, I think it is only fair that we obtain maximum clarity on his work and business practices.

However, if you still think the above post is better suited for a private email, let me know and I shall delete it and email him personally.

 

Thanks

[Sparky]

Just thought i'd add that i'm not a fan of dissolvable sutures having had them, they are a right pain when they start to dissolve.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Whirlwind,

 

I appreciate your reply and I'm sorry if I misunderstood or misinterpreted your intentions.

 

I'm a little confused though. Did Dr. Madhu and/or his staff tell you that if you pay cash that you wouldn't get a receipt? No matter how you pay (cash, check, credit card, loan, etc), it's common practice for clinics to provide a receipt. Thus, I'm not sure why you think you wouldn't get one. But when in doubt, ask the clinic how they handle processing payments and I'm sure you'll get a clear answer.

 

As to why I found it suspicious that you were insisting on paying by check, I've personally witnessed many people (in a business environment) get royally ripped off by accepting personal checks for services that never cleared because the money wasn't in the account. Personally, I don't think any business should accept personal checks over a certain amount to avoid potentially losing money.

 

As for Dr. Madhu's policies and certifications, I recommend contacting his clinic directly. Whether you speak with the doctor himself or his staff, they'd certainly be able to address this much more clearly than the members of this community.

 

You are then welcome to share your findings with this community by posting a reply to the topic.

 

We take all concerns posted about clinics on this forum very seriously and certainly want to be sure we're recommending the very best hair transplant physicians. Obviously, if anything is found that merits reason for concern, I will perform further investigation by contacting Dr. Madhu directly.

 

Best wishes in selecting a quality hair transplant physician,

 

Bill

[whirlwind]

Whirlwind,

I appreciate your reply and I'm sorry if I misunderstood or misinterpreted your intentions.

 

No offence taken at all. I know you're just looking out for this community.

 

I'm a little confused though. Did Dr. Madhu and/or his staff tell you that if you pay cash that you wouldn't get a receipt? No matter how you pay (cash, check, credit card, loan, etc), it's common practice for clinics to provide a receipt. Thus, I'm not sure why you think you wouldn't get one. But when in doubt, ask the clinic how they handle processing payments and I'm sure you'll get a clear answer.

 

Ok. I'll admit the staff did not explicitly mention that they will not give an invoice, but they told me that if I paid by cash, I would not have to pay the 10.3% service tax (VAT).

Now, this is possible ONLY IF the service provider (the clinic) is not declaring the cash income to the government and thus avoiding paying income tax on that amount. This is what we call black money. This can be done in two ways:

1. Accept cash payment and give no invoice.

2. Accept cash payment and give a 'token' invoice. In local parlance, we term this is a 'chaloo bill'. This bill will have the official letterhead of the company, and will mention the amount paid and will be signed by a representative. However, it will not stand up in any court of law as no service tax has been paid and the transaction has not been declared to the government. This practice is quite common among small businesses and retailers in India.

However, when an established ISO 9001 certified clinic dealing in a serious surgery such as hair trasnplantation asks me to pay in cash and avoid service tax, it sets alarm bells ringing in my head.

 

 

As to why I found it suspicious that you were insisting on paying by check, I've personally witnessed many people (in a business environment) get royally ripped off by accepting personal checks for services that never cleared because the money wasn't in the account. Personally, I don't think any business should accept personal checks over a certain amount to avoid potentially losing money.

 

I am not insisting on cheques. I am ok with cheques/Demand Drafts/Wire Transfer or anything else that has a written and documented record.

Apart from my concerns about cash expressed above, also consider it is not safe to be tugging along a bagful of cash across India.

 

 

As for Dr. Madhu's policies and certifications, I recommend contacting his clinic directly. Whether you speak with the doctor himself or his staff, they'd certainly be able to address this much more clearly than the members of this community. You are then welcome to share your findings with this community by posting a reply to the topic.

 

Sure thing. I'll email him as well. Will keep the community posted if I receive a reply on email instead of the forum.

 

Disclaimer: I am not alleging that Dr. Madhu's clinic IS indulging in unethical/unprofessional practices or/and evading tax. I am stating how it appears to the average consumer based on his business policies.

Edited October 31, 2010 by whirlwind
Added disclaimer

[Dr. Mohammad Humayun Mohma]

I was send this mail to give my honest comments and here are my comments as an unbiased man.

 

 

 

 

1. Dr. Madhu's website hairhospi.com states that they have an ISO 9001 certification. Dr. Madhu has himself stated on this forum that his clinic was fully ready only by end last year. It is rather hard to believe that they have managed to achieve an ISO quality management certification in less than a year. Dr Madhu: Can you point us to an online link giving more details about the same or post the certificate online?

 

I think to have ISO certification is good. now he might have been a bit irrational but I do not see any problem with that but, i wish it would have been done properly. so YES, I agree that it was not a right way to do things.

 

2. Take a look at the following donor scars from a HT done by Dr. Madhu:

Hair Restoration Journal -Donar Scar Pics

Why are there TWO scars and why do they look so horrendous?

 

I have previously commented on that issue. All of us can have a good or bad scar. So quality of the scar is not an issue at all. we are all surgeons and have good or bad results. But I cannot accept two good or bad scars. Having two scars just because a patient wants density and bigger session does not justify doing two scars at all. But then he is not the only one who does this. There are loads of other doctors and some of them have openly say it at the conference. I am strongly oppose to this concept of two scars.

 

3. Most HT surgeons usually shave the recipient area before the transplant. Dr. Madhu's clinic offers an alternative where they do the HT without shaving off any hair on the recipient area for an extra charge of $400. Is this a standard practice the world over? Are the results one gets with and without shaving the recipient area the same?

 

I also have no issues of shaving the recipient area before hair transplant or not shaving it. But I do not like the idea of charging extra 400$ for that. I agree it could be a policy already explained in a consultation but it does not seem to be a fair game. Because, all this is to save time. Doing plantation between hair is slow and time consuming so this is how they charge for that time loss. I do not see this as a professional way of practice. Please do not mind my words this is what I am, before being a doctor I am a human and a professional man. so I feel this as a way of charging more than what one professional doctor of high moral values should do.

 

4. Dr. Madhu's clinic charges $100 extra for dissolvable sutures. Aren't dissolvable sutures a de-facto part of HT nowadays? Why even make it optional?

 

Once again this is totally rubbish. I will use a dissolvable or permanent suture based on my clinical judgement but on a special request I will not charge that person extra money. Again the reason is that dissolvable suture take twice as long and non dissolvable ones.

 

5. Dr. Madhu's clinic charges Rs. 45/graft and insists on cash payment. When I called and insisted on paying by cheque/DD, the receptionist said they would allow a maximum of 40% by card/cheque/DD and the rest would have to be cash. I'm not even sure if we get a full invoice. I find this very odd and disturbing for an established practice that is apparently ISO 9001 certified.

Pls let us know the reasons for the same.

 

Any person who can cheat a government can cheat any one. so if any doctor does not give receipt, he is not a true professional man. Now ISO 9001 has nothing to do with the honesty. I would ask Dr Madhu not to do this and rob his country with the TAX he deserve to pay. In my country the economy is even worst than India, people do pay me cash and some high ups even do not want me to give them a receipt, but we give receipt as a policy. As I do not want any of my employee to think I am hiding the money as all my employee gets a share from the profit, they deserve this because they play the most important part in my success as a team. But TAX EVASION is a crime.

I hope this was enough.

 

As far as US or WE, irrespective of that wrong thing is wrong. we cant keep on ignoring the non-professionalism in our community

[Bill - Seemiller]

Whirlwind,

 

Instead of making all kinds of assumptions on why Dr. Madhu offered you a price break and what he and his clinic may be doing behind the scenes, why not ask him or his staff directly for an answer? It sounds to me that he was just trying to do you a favor but it doesn't sound like was he suggesting that cash was the only form of payment they accepted. I do certainly agree however, that carrying a bag of cash around is not the best idea. But there are certainly other ways to pay by cash (like wire transfers) without having to physicially hand it over to their clinic.

 

But since you said you'd email the clinic about this, we'll wait for their response. Our editorial assistant Blake also notified Dr. Madhu about this topic so that he can respond.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Dr. Mohmand,

 

I'm surprised that as a professional and ethical hair transplant surgeon that you would respond to such a topic without first contacting your colleague Dr. Madhu to discuss the truthfulness of these concerns privately. You are responding to an anonymous poster without knowing the details of Dr. Madhu's practice and without obtaining his side of the story.

 

Frankly, I find your response to this topic without first discussing it with Dr. Madhu unbecoming of an ethical hair transplant surgeon and highly unprofessional.

 

But since you've decided to involve yourself, I encourage you now to do the right thing by calling Dr. Madhu to discuss these issues and then formulating a reply based on hearing both sides of the story.

 

Bill

[Dr. Mohammad Humayun Mohma]

Dear Bill

I do agree with you. I should not have been so irrational and without knowing that the person who is saying this could be any one.

So I apologize Dr Madhu in public and I should have asked him or rather not commented at all.

So please accept my apology.

[Dr. Mohammad Humayun Mohma]

Just to clarify one more thing.

My reply was in general for who ever do such practice and as I do not know whether Dr Madhu has any of such practice so I feel sorry that my comment has been taken in the wrong direction.

It's a general rule.

Dr Madhu, I believe in my true spirit that you are not doing such thing and I apologize for a reply that you might hav taken it more personal.

But they reflect my personal feeling not against any individual.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Dr. Mohmand,

 

I appreciate you taking the time to clarify your posts. I'm sure Dr. Madhu (as I do) will appreciate that you're just trying to look out for this community.

 

All the Best,

 

Bill

[Dr. Pathuri Madhu]

Dear all,

 

Regarding the ISO Certification:

 

We have been practicing in Hyderabad from the last 2 and half years; previously we used to practice in a small town called Rajahmundry. The ISO management has their own norms in giving certification and they have taken one year to issue me the certificate, now and then they come for audit and check for the standard operating procedures laid down and update us with audit report.

 

Personal matter:

 

Unfortunately I cannot type lengthy letters and cannot use very good English also, which sometimes hampers me to convey my exact meaning.

 

Regarding Payment issues:

 

You can have a look at our website by clicking the following link Hair Transplant Cost | Dr.Madhu:::Hair Transplant Surgeon, India- Hyderabad regarding charges & taxes

 

We generally oppose checks or cards, which are not having sufficient balance in them. We encourage paying by cash/DD/online transfers. It is not an issue for us in giving you a receipt for the amount you paid.

 

Generally we ask the people to pay 40% of the amount before the procedure and 60% immediately after the surgery. There might have been some miscommunication that might have happened. I do regret this.

 

Today, once again I’ll instruct my staff to provide the information properly, clearly, responsibly and with transparency without giving any chance for any sort of suspicions.

 

 

Actually I thought of voluntarily to come out of this forum after seeing the first post of my colleague Dr.Mohmand, because in general I am a peace loving person and I don’t want to indulge myself in disputes.

 

What I believe

 

Our slogans in the hospital are “Think Positive”, “Do Positive”. “Om Shanti Shanti Shanti” which means “Peace everywhere”.

 

I strongly believe in quotes like” Truth will Win” and “Forgive & Forget”.

 

For any further queries feel free to contact me.

 

Regards,

Dr.Madhu.

[Dr. Mohammad Humayun Mohma]

Dr Madhu

 

I am sorry once again and Actually what I realize that when we as non english speaking people tend to give any comments it can be misrepresented and I have already apologized and cleared my point of view.

 

It was not based on any one but in general and I am sure that all of us will agree in general terms that what I said is not wrong.

 

I have last night and I do even now once again apologize for hurting your feelings but I never meant that way.

Bill did send me a message and i did clarify my position over there with him and now on forum.

 

I know how it feels when your position is not being understood by people and some one is throwing the mud on you. I have been a victim myself and that was precisely why I came back straight away to say sorry.

 

I hope you will forgive me.

 

Over the period I have learned the less you comment, the less you get into trouble.

 

My medium of education has been English but I can still say things that could be taken in the wrong direction.

[Dr. Mohammad Humayun Mohma]

I have been hurt in this forum in the past but, I learned from it as to how to improve the standard of my clinic so that I can be compared with the best in world.

Lets see the positive aspect of this conversation. We learn from the mistakes we do, and I think we should be in a way thankful to the forum that they do bring out some times such an issue that has nothing to do with the quality of results but general principles. After all if we are in the forum that represent the international group, they need to see if we can come up to same standards as every body else.

 

YES due to the cultural and economical difference we might be doing some thing that is norm in our land and not norm in USA then we might have to learn or teach but instead of leaving the forum we have to be a fighter and at the same time get the positive aspect of that issue.

 

I always see the brightest aspect of all issues and I do respect this forum from whom I have learned few things.

 

Every time I am down I rise, with even more determination.

 

I ill close my remarks with the quote from Notingham , UK

 

"Rise and rise again, till the lambs become the lions."

 

I love this.

 

so my friend lets be thankful to this community to make us Lion.

[wb280]

Dr Mohmand, thanks for taking the replies positively. Ultimately, the forum is existent for one purpose which is to help us fellow hair loss sufferers. Inevitably there will be questions, doubts, accusations etc. As long as u understand that the comments are for the good of the community and yourself, i would give thumbs up to anyone who chooses to go to u for surgery sir

 

We thank you for your understanding and continued contribution to this forum and community!

[Dr. Pathuri Madhu]

Respected Dr.Mohmand,

 

It’s true that we are learning a lot from this forum and we should be very thankful for the same. From the beginning I was telling you through this forum and also by private mails that I have great respect towards you and I consider you as a senior. Furthermore, as I am a junior member to this forum I may sometimes ask you for suggestions as well. I hope you will respond accordingly.

 

We all shall work towards for the better.

 

 

All the best.

 

Regards,

Dr.Madhu.

[Dr. Mohammad Humayun Mohma]

With pleasure and Honor.

[whirlwind]

Dr Madhu

 

Thanks for the reply. I stand by my statement regarding the conversation I had with your clinic staff but as per your clarification, I think it is fair to give the benefit of doubt to the clinic regarding some possible miscommunication.

 

Regards,

[subbu]

here in India this kind of thing is a common practice you encounter many times.If you ask for a bill you have to pay for cost of service+tax.If you dont need a bill you need to pay just the cost of service.And most people prefer the second one because affording the HT cost it self is a big problem for people here .That to for people in age group of 20-30 it is very difficult ,because their parents cannot under stand their requirement and fund it and these people has to bear it from their pocket.

[ahmedabad_guy]

Dr Madhu,

 

I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate you for getting recommendation on this forum.

 

I have one requst for you if it's possible could you please present latest HT pics of your recent patients and specially pics of scar.

 

I am considering you for my HT but i m not sure about scar's. That is the reason which directing me towards dr pathomvanich as i have seen his work and it looks excellent.

 

Please clarify on above issues which will help me to make up my mind.

 

I hope i will get reply from you.

 

Thanks,

[wb280]

hi ahmed, as far as i know, both Dr Pat and Dr Madhu produce very impressive results. In fact, have a look at TomA's profile. He had two procedures, one with each doc u mentioned. I am sure it will benefit u if u can have a chat with him. good luck!

[amanindia]

I feel Dr Madhu's work is good but not excellent.One more thing as soon as he will get recommended on this site he will increase his fees because i know Indian doctors from the core.He does meet with the standards of H&W but still he performs & delivers good results here in India.Will vote for him.