Which doctor-Bloxham, Nader, or Panine and how many grafts

[Gatsby]

On 3/2/2024 at 3:44 PM, Britanium said:

Good research, you're already finding what I was alluding too. And yes all clinics will show off their best work. Every single Dr has less desirable results, but some more than others. 

Any Hair Transplant comes with a element of risk, even with the most elite Dr's.. 

Its good you're spending more time looking at real world patient results, they are the best way to gauge each Dr's result. 

Some recession in a hairline is expected as we get older, if you can maintain with meds then you're in a good position. As you have also noticed you're loss at present is pretty mild. 

This ^

[Joseph James]

On 2/29/2024 at 9:17 PM, Cyzkm said:

I had been on Finasteride and OM for a while but after being inconsistent with fin during a recent live for 6 weeks I lost a shocking amount of hair in a 2 week period from early to mid Feb. not sure where it is at now. Been back on medicine consistently for 3-4 weeks now but I can still see miniaturizing hairs coming out when I run my hands through my hair, especially in the shower.  Will I continue to lose hair or can I expect to regain some of what I have lost? 

 

I am looking to get a HT to lower the corners of my hairline. Located in Midwest and considering bloxham, Panine in Chicago, and Nader in Cleveland.  I also saw a local clinic called we grow hair Indy but I was skeptical of their marketing techniques.

Bloxham quoted 600 grafts per side as a rough estimate for 1200 total. Local clinic said 2000 hairs but they were trying to play up this multi unit grafting procedure and I was skeptical since it kind of sounded like old hair plugs. 
 

does anyone have experience with these three doctors? If so who would you recommend? How many grafts would you estimate are necessary? I have attached the hairline design proposed by the consultant from the local clinic. Dry hair in clinic pictures and wet hair in the others. 

If I was 27 years old and had the amount of hair that you have, I would just stay on the meds, if you're not getting sides, and wait and see if your hair loss progresses. You have a lot of hair. If the meds stop your hair loss, I'd be happy with what you've got. Just my 2 cents.

[Cyzkm]

I think if I were to do it for just one side, it would look something like this

 

Edited March 6 by Cyzkm

[bbb]

Again, I think your focus should be on having your hair and scalp examined by a professional and getting a diagnosis/monitoring.

Continue doing transplant research if you like, but keep that as a distant option at this time. You have lots of hair and it looks good.

[Britanium]

Just now, bbb said:

Again, I think your focus should be on having your hair and scalp examined by a professional and getting a diagnosis/monitoring.

Continue doing transplant research if you like, but keep that as a distant option at this time. You have lots of hair and it looks good.

^this 

[Cyzkm]

I will see what dr Panine says tomorrow. 

[Gatsby]

Looking at your pictures and reading your post I think it's possible that the OM may have induced a shed. You need to be on these medications for a year really. Even if you feel your hair has not improved then if your hair is no worse then they are doing their job. I honestly feel that you should save your money and not have surgery now. I mean you are about on par with a hair transplant result for someone else. Plus your hair looks 'natural' which is the goal for a successful hair transplant. You are already there my friend. All the best!

[JoeD]

On 3/1/2024 at 4:27 PM, Britanium said:

No to the Dr's on you're list apart from Dr Panine. Dr Bloxham I feel is very mediocre (just my opinion). 

Consult with Dr Panine, it would be interesting to see how many grafts he would be suggesting. Personally I don't think you necessarily need a ht right now. 

Stay on the meds sure. Just be careful when considering a Ht, get a few consults done. If you can travel then look further afield, some really good Dr's out there, some are not on the recommended list. 

As you mentioned @Dr. Vladimir Panine though I will tag @mavigo

I find this very interesting regarding Bloxham.  Before the 2 to 3 cases I have seen online between here and Reddit this year, I had never seen anything negative/concerning on him.  Thought he was considered top-tier. Certainly plenty of excellent outcomes shown on here and elsewhere, perplexing why there is the occasional miss.  

[Cyzkm]

I’m talking to dr Panine in 20 min and will report back with his thoughts. 

[Cyzkm]

He said that right now it would likely be too subtle to be worth it in terms of having the surgery.  He said that when the body got used to not having something there would be a shock and a shed, and it was likely that I would get it Back after being on the medicine again for a few months, and we could do a follow up in 3 months to see. He thought I was too worried about it 

 

he said to take some photos now and come back and evaluate in 3 months 

Edited March 4 by Cyzkm

[Britanium]

2 hours ago, Cyzkm said:

He said that right now it would likely be too subtle to be worth it in terms of having the surgery.  He said that when the body got used to not having something there would be a shock and a shed, and it was likely that I would get it Back after being on the medicine again for a few months, and we could do a follow up in 3 months to see. He thought I was too worried about it 

 

he said to take some photos now and come back and evaluate in 3 months 

Wise words indeed from Dr Panine. You have great hair and hopefully it may even improve when you continue the med regime. Absolutely no need for a transplant right now. 

[Cyzkm]

I also showed him the photos of the hairline design from the local place and he thought it was a terrible design and too feminine, because the corner curbed down. 
 

He explained what he would do if there were to be a procedure which was basically the same as what dr Bloxham said. He just didn’t think the result would be different enough to the average person to be worth it at this stage. 
 

 

Edited March 5 by Cyzkm

[Britanium]

4 minutes ago, Cyzkm said:

I also showed him the photos of the hairline design from the local place and he thought it was a terrible design and too feminine, because the corner curbed down. 
 

He explained what he would do if there were to be a procedure which was basically the same as what dr Bloxham said. He just didn’t think the result would be different enough to the average person to be worth it at this stage. 
 

 

The local place is a firm no, they just want you for you're $. Dr Panine is a ethical guy, he has suggested what's in you're best interests going forward (not his) 

[Cyzkm]

10 hours ago, JoeD said:

I find this very interesting regarding Bloxham.  Before the 2 to 3 cases I have seen online between here and Reddit this year, I had never seen anything negative/concerning on him.  Thought he was considered top-tier. Certainly plenty of excellent outcomes shown on here and elsewhere, perplexing why there is the occasional miss.  

Which outcomes are you referring to? to me he seems very knowledgeable and responsive so I’m surprised to see complaints. These were the two negative outcomes I found 
 

( Reddit link removed )

 

 

 

 

[FormerFutureKrillin]

1 hour ago, Cyzkm said:

Which outcomes are you referring to? to me he seems very knowledgeable and responsive so I’m surprised to see complaints. These were the two negative outcomes I found 
 

(Reddit link removed)

 

 

 

For what it’s worth, I was able to track down the reddit post you referenced earlier about the techs - that post described my experience to a T (right down to the painful last bit of the procedure). In hindsight, I have come to strongly suspect that the techs that were staffed on my surgery day were rushing to finish my surgery as fast as possible for whatever reason. My surgery was finished extremely quickly for its size (a tech even said as much as they went out the door when I was finished), which I think contributed to some of my issues.

I still believe Dr. Bloxham is a good and ethical doctor. But there are more people involved in the surgery than just him, and he’s ultimately responsible for the team. 

From my research, I agree with the two posts above that my case appears to be an outlier in terms of the result, so I guess weight my opinion accordingly however you want. But in my opinion the mistakes that were made in my case were extremely egregious - mistakes that fly in the face of Bloxham’s own HT philosophy stated on his YouTube channel.

[Cyzkm]

38 minutes ago, FormerFutureKrillin said:

For what it’s worth, I was able to track down the reddit post you referenced earlier about the techs - that post described my experience to a T (right down to the painful last bit of the procedure). In hindsight, I have come to strongly suspect that the techs that were staffed on my surgery day were rushing to finish my surgery as fast as possible for whatever reason. My surgery was finished extremely quickly for its size (a tech even said as much as they went out the door when I was finished), which I think contributed to some of my issues.

I still believe Dr. Bloxham is a good and ethical doctor. But there are more people involved in the surgery than just him, and he’s ultimately responsible for the team. 

From my research, I agree with the two posts above that my case appears to be an outlier in terms of the result, so I guess weight my opinion accordingly however you want. But in my opinion the mistakes that were made in my case were extremely egregious - mistakes that fly in the face of Bloxham’s own HT philosophy stated on his YouTube channel.

Yea for example this guy had 3100 grafts and got a great result. 

 

[jjsrader]

I don't think 1 in 1000 people would ever look at you now and think you have any hairloss nor need any surgery.  You have strong sides (temporal points) which makes any percieved hairloss even less of an issue imho.  Stay on meds consistently & come back in a year and show us new pics!

Enjoy your hair - maybe get a top stylist & do your hair differently - but truthfully your hair is 100% fine the way it is.

[gxm100]

12 hours ago, Cyzkm said:

Yea for example this guy had 3100 grafts and got a great result. 

 

Hey @Cyzkm - that's me ^ and you're right, I did get a great result! Better than I even thought I could expect. Seems like I'll be mostly echoing others' advice at this point but here's my piece:

1) I don't have experience with the other doctors - I consulted with Bloxham and Rahal. Dr. Bloxham was a very kind individual and obviously you can read my thread for details on my experience. I would definitely recommend him IF you were dedicated to going FUT (I'm not sure I would go to him for FUE as I just haven't seen enough from him - really hardly any). I chose FUT because I am relatively young, have a strong history of family hairloss, and was already headed into NW4 before age 30. I felt this was my best way to maximize my long term options.

2) I feel, looking at your pictures, that you are not in the same situation as me. You are much better of than I was when I originally consulted Rahal which was back in '16 and almost went through with it but ended up waiting for 7 more years and I'm glad that I did. You're not at a stage yet where it's clear where your hairloss is going or how fast, so I'd strongly recommend to wait a while. If I wasn't looking at multiple large procedures over a lfietime, I'd have gone FUE, so I'd strongly encourage you to wait and see where everything goes before you decide on a procedure type and therefore on a doctor who is great at that procedure.

3) You can find bad results for basically every doctor out there. It's a reality of the procedure (as well as most cosmetic procedures as best I can tell). When you're ready to get the procedure, I'd recommend looking for a doctor who seems to be having a trend of positive results over the last year or two. When I initially talked with Rahal, all his results were outstanding, and then 7 years later when I got back into looking, I was finding a lot of less than stellar results. I think right now Bloxham has mostly positive results, but in a few years who knows? The most important thing is to do your research, look at how their current performance is, accept the potential for a not great outcome but do everything to minimize it, and then make the decision that makes you feel most comfortable.

[Cyzkm]

Anyway so far I am not able to find many examples on here of people getting 1000 grafts or less, but am trying to hunt them down. Why is 1000 or less considered a low amount whereas 1500-2000 is much more common? 
 

 

[gxm100]

The answer to that is that it's just a factor of the population getting a hair transplant and when it is advisable to get a hair transplant. If you are getting 1k or less, that is indicative that the area needing to be covered is relatively speaking very small meaning that there isn't much hair loss. For many people this indicates that they are both young and have little loss - not a good candidate for transplant as there is not evidence of what will happen as of yet into later decades.

Think of how many people don't have significant hair loss til they're in their mid 30s or even mid 40s or in many cases (actually my dad included) into their mid 60s. If you need such a small area covered that 1k grafts would be sufficient and you're only 25 and you go ahead and do that, well that would be a bad idea if your hairline really starts going back in another 10 years and now you have these 1k grafts real low down.

So it's not really about the # of grafts, it's about a combination of age and progress of loss. Younger people that currently need 1k or less shouldnt do HT yet as you don't know the future. People that wait until the appropriate time to get a HT rarely only need 1k. And then people who are lucky enough to make it well into the later decades and still only need 1k would probably frequently decide it's not worth going through at all.

Essentially ya just can't do much with 1k

 

[Cyzkm]

On 3/5/2024 at 1:49 PM, gxm100 said:

The answer to that is that it's just a factor of the population getting a hair transplant and when it is advisable to get a hair transplant. If you are getting 1k or less, that is indicative that the area needing to be covered is relatively speaking very small meaning that there isn't much hair loss. For many people this indicates that they are both young and have little loss - not a good candidate for transplant as there is not evidence of what will happen as of yet into later decades.

Think of how many people don't have significant hair loss til they're in their mid 30s or even mid 40s or in many cases (actually my dad included) into their mid 60s. If you need such a small area covered that 1k grafts would be sufficient and you're only 25 and you go ahead and do that, well that would be a bad idea if your hairline really starts going back in another 10 years and now you have these 1k grafts real low down.

So it's not really about the # of grafts, it's about a combination of age and progress of loss. Younger people that currently need 1k or less shouldnt do HT yet as you don't know the future. People that wait until the appropriate time to get a HT rarely only need 1k. And then people who are lucky enough to make it well into the later decades and still only need 1k would probably frequently decide it's not worth going through at all.

Essentially ya just can't do much with 1k

 

Interesting yea I still kind of want to do it  for one side of the hairline but it would not be many grafts. It still looks good from the front but I don’t like the way it looks from the side
 

 

[gxm100]

How old are you? 
 

based on the pictures in this thread, if I met you for the first time in person the thought “he’s losing his hair” would never even cross my mind if that means anything to ya 😂

[Cyzkm]

23 hours ago, gxm100 said:

How old are you? 
 

based on the pictures in this thread, if I met you for the first time in person the thought “he’s losing his hair” would never even cross my mind if that means anything to ya 😂

I am 27. 

Edited March 8 by Cyzkm

[Cyzkm]

On 3/4/2024 at 7:41 PM, Britanium said:

The local place is a firm no, they just want you for you're $. Dr Panine is a ethical guy, he has suggested what's in you're best interests going forward (not his) 

What do you think of laorwong? His assistant doctor said 1700-1800 grafts. 

Edited March 13 by Cyzkm