Regular Member FaganBecker Posted January 19 Author Regular Member Share Posted January 19 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said: They’re not on our list and never have been, we only recommend surgeon's, not clinics. That said, they have a good reputation. I would imagine this result would prompt them to offer a free repair. Obviously going to the people that have done this to begin with seems like a precarious way forward. My concern is that as I'd not be a paying customer I'd be the very bottom of their list of priorities and a total after thought. Couldn't they stand to make it worse not better? Also, I've usually seen you be very careful to advise people to wait the full year before making judgements about their result. Am I to take it based on your responses here that you don't see an awful lot of scope for big improvements here? Edited January 19 by FaganBecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted January 19 Administrators Share Posted January 19 1 minute ago, FaganBecker said: Obviously going to the people that have done this to begin with seems like a precarious way forward. My concern is that as I'd not be a paying customer I'd be the very bottom of their list of priorities and a total after thought. Couldn't they stand to make it worse not better? It’s not a difficult fix. The choice is yours, I understand your apprehension. If they do offer a free repair. I would ask them what they plan to do to fix it. Do they plan on extracting the doubles? Are they going to camouflage with more singles? I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Anon94 Posted January 19 Regular Member Share Posted January 19 I think the result at this point is unacceptable at every level. Your case was a very simple and straightforward transplant. Your donor quality seemed very good, and your recession was purely in the frontal third. Considering the amount of grafts used and the price that HLC charges (afaik they are the most expensive you'll find in Turkey) you should expect way better. A double here or there in the hairline is understandable. Some grafts might contain a hair in telogen, which can be seen under a microscope, but is an excusable miss. The amount in your hairline can only be explained by carelessness. I also don't think that you have - at least at this point - gotten the density that should be achieved with the grafts per area and your hair quality. Hopefully this part sorts itself over time, but compared to other HLC cases this is not up to the standards they advertise. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member BaldGuy Posted January 19 Regular Member Share Posted January 19 (edited) 57 minutes ago, FaganBecker said: Appreciate the comment, but honestly for me this is very far from good! I don't believe I had unrealistic expectations either For 6 months is good, but still not perfect. You still have time for improvements. in every hair transplant if you over analyse your result you will not be satisfied. Anyway you should wait till 12 months and see if there still something you want to change. Edited January 19 by BaldGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Idan Posted January 19 Regular Member Share Posted January 19 (edited) Hi @FaganBecker, As I wrote in the first replies to your thread, I also had my surgery performed by HLC and exclusively by Dr. Elif (I also requested her specifically). Similar pattern to yours (3200 grafts; 600 of them were added to increase density in the middle at 20 grafts per cm2, like done in your case) Today I'm exactly 8 months post-surgery. I will share some photos from 6 months post-surgery and maybe it would be helpful for you. I have to say that I'm not totally satisfied with the hairline design (would prefer the V shape you have, and it's bit asymmetrical), but it's another matter as I just want to give you a reference to the hairline (singles, multis) and the growth. I have to say that I feel that I'm a slow grower and I can surely say that the density has improved in the last two months, and I still have short and weak hairs in the hairline. I hope this is going to be the case for you too. Edit: I noticed that my pictures here may be misleading some users to think I'm the thread owner. Decided to remove them from this post. Meanwhile, I opened a thread of my own here, where you can see the photos: Edited January 26 by Idan 1 HLC Ankara | Dr. Elif | 3201 grafts | 17-18 May 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Jackdaniels Posted January 19 Regular Member Share Posted January 19 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Idan said: Hi @FaganBecker, As I wrote in the first replies to your thread, I also had my surgery performed by HLC and exclusively by Dr. Elif (I also requested her specifically). Similar pattern to yours (3200 grafts; 600 of them were added to increase density in the middle at 20 grafts per cm2, like done in your case) Today I'm exactly 8 months post-surgery. I will share some photos from 6 months post-surgery and maybe it would be helpful for you. I have to say that I'm not totally satisfied with the hairline design (would prefer the V shape you have, and it's bit asymmetrical), but it's another matter as I just want to give you a reference to the hairline (singles, multis) and the growth. I have to say that I feel that I'm a slow grower and I can surely say that the density has improved in the last two months, and I still have short and weak hairs in the hairline. I hope this is going to be the case for you too. Before transplant: 1 week shy of 6 months: Exactly 6 months: 7 months: Yesterday (8 months - harsh lightning): I think you should make your own thread and present your hair transplant progress and don’t mix the threads. Btw your result from HLC looks very good to my opinion with high density..I prefer your hairline shape than a V shape one. Edited January 19 by Jackdaniels 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Idan Posted January 19 Regular Member Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, Jackdaniels said: I think you should make your own thread and present your hair transplant progress and don’t mix the threads. Btw your result from HLC looks very good to my opinion with high density..I prefer your hairline shape than a V shape one. The reason I replied here is because we had the same surgeon and very similar hair transplant characteristics. And I’m two months ahead of him. If the thread owner or the admin prefer it to be removed I will edit/remove my message. 1 HLC Ankara | Dr. Elif | 3201 grafts | 17-18 May 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Jackdaniels Posted January 19 Regular Member Share Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, Idan said: The reason I replied here is because we had the same surgeon and very similar hair transplant characteristics. And I’m two months ahead of him. If the thread owner or the admin prefer it to be removed I will edit/remove my message. I see. You don’t have to remove your message. But why don’t you make your own thread ? It’s good to see another one case from HLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member duchaine Posted January 19 Senior Member Share Posted January 19 17 minutes ago, FaganBecker said: Appreciate the comment, but honestly for me this is very far from good! I don't believe I had unrealistic expectations either Take the good side of the story a) you donor is perfect B) you covered a bald area c) angle and directions look correct If just need a minor touch up (and maybe a little adjustment to the hairline design), it should be quite easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member duchaine Posted January 19 Senior Member Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Anon94 said: I think the result at this point is unacceptable at every level. Your case was a very simple and straightforward transplant. Your donor quality seemed very good, and your recession was purely in the frontal third. Considering the amount of grafts used and the price that HLC charges (afaik they are the most expensive you'll find in Turkey) you should expect way better. A double here or there in the hairline is understandable. Some grafts might contain a hair in telogen, which can be seen under a microscope, but is an excusable miss. The amount in your hairline can only be explained by carelessness. I also don't think that you have - at least at this point - gotten the density that should be achieved with the grafts per area and your hair quality. Hopefully this part sorts itself over time, but compared to other HLC cases this is not up to the standards they advertise. I wouldn’t be so dramatic. the donor is perfect. the traspanted area is not nice to see at six month. maybe he will improve, maybe not. but do not forget that the best surgeon in Europe has similar cases in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member duchaine Posted January 20 Senior Member Share Posted January 20 5 hours ago, Idan said: Hi @FaganBecker, As I wrote in the first replies to your thread, I also had my surgery performed by HLC and exclusively by Dr. Elif (I also requested her specifically). Similar pattern to yours (3200 grafts; 600 of them were added to increase density in the middle at 20 grafts per cm2, like done in your case) Today I'm exactly 8 months post-surgery. I will share some photos from 6 months post-surgery and maybe it would be helpful for you. I have to say that I'm not totally satisfied with the hairline design (would prefer the V shape you have, and it's bit asymmetrical), but it's another matter as I just want to give you a reference to the hairline (singles, multis) and the growth. I have to say that I feel that I'm a slow grower and I can surely say that the density has improved in the last two months, and I still have short and weak hairs in the hairline. I hope this is going to be the case for you too. Before transplant: 1 week shy of 6 months: Exactly 6 months: 7 months: Yesterday (8 months - harsh lightning): I can’t understand if the single hair in first line are your natives (that I see in the pre op pic) or if they are new implanted singles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Anon94 Posted January 20 Regular Member Share Posted January 20 14 hours ago, duchaine said: I wouldn’t be so dramatic. the donor is perfect. the traspanted area is not nice to see at six month. maybe he will improve, maybe not. but do not forget that the best surgeon in Europe has similar cases in this forum. What surgeon are you referring to? Zarev doesn't have cases like this, FueGenix doesn't, Bisanga doesn't, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Idan Posted January 20 Regular Member Share Posted January 20 (edited) On 1/19/2024 at 9:00 PM, Jackdaniels said: I see. You don’t have to remove your message. But why don’t you make your own thread ? It’s good to see another one case from HLC. I will consider doing so positively soon (but maybe it misses the point of "progress", not sure). My point was to give the thread owner some information that might be helpful for him. On 1/20/2024 at 2:16 AM, duchaine said: I can’t understand if the single hair in first line are your natives (that I see in the pre op pic) or if they are new implanted singles. This photo is right after the scrub removal. As you can see I have some native hairs, but most of them are not adjacent to the new hairline. But this thread is not about me so if you have additional questions please PM me. Edit: Decided to remove the photo to prevent users from being confused with the thread owner. You can see my pictures on the thread I opened. Edited January 26 by Idan HLC Ankara | Dr. Elif | 3201 grafts | 17-18 May 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member duchaine Posted January 20 Senior Member Share Posted January 20 (edited) 3 hours ago, Anon94 said: What surgeon are you referring to? Zarev doesn't have cases like this, FueGenix doesn't, Bisanga doesn't, etc. coito for example has cases of poor density after one year. I don’t want link any case, because the patients could feel offended. Edited January 20 by duchaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac toro Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Good result, how much per graft at hlc? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member jjalay Posted January 20 Regular Member Share Posted January 20 On 1/19/2024 at 7:22 PM, Idan said: Hi @FaganBecker, As I wrote in the first replies to your thread, I also had my surgery performed by HLC and exclusively by Dr. Elif (I also requested her specifically). Similar pattern to yours (3200 grafts; 600 of them were added to increase density in the middle at 20 grafts per cm2, like done in your case) Today I'm exactly 8 months post-surgery. I will share some photos from 6 months post-surgery and maybe it would be helpful for you. I have to say that I'm not totally satisfied with the hairline design (would prefer the V shape you have, and it's bit asymmetrical), but it's another matter as I just want to give you a reference to the hairline (singles, multis) and the growth. I have to say that I feel that I'm a slow grower and I can surely say that the density has improved in the last two months, and I still have short and weak hairs in the hairline. I hope this is going to be the case for you too. Before transplant: 1 week shy of 6 months: Exactly 6 months: 7 months: Yesterday (8 months - harsh lightning): Why so many grafts used? Check out this case for example, its guite similar to yours and this was done with 2077 grafts: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member duchaine Posted January 20 Senior Member Share Posted January 20 The prize for the most stupid comparison of the month goes to… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted January 21 Administrators Share Posted January 21 Guys, I appreciate everyone sharing input. But I think we’re going off on a tangent. Comparing patients isn’t really appropriate because hair shaft diameter, head shape, head size, donor density varies from patient to patient. You can have different results with the same number of grafts, with the same surgeon. 4 I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member FaganBecker Posted January 22 Author Regular Member Share Posted January 22 I really appreciate all the responses here and will try and be more individually responsive. However, trying my best not to become an obsessive neurotic mess so not checking this or engaging quite as frequently. It's definitely getting me down that the results currently seem below average/ not especially promising and just really hoping that changes in the months to come. Getting another procedure a year after the first was never the plan, but will likely do it if the coming 6 months don't see more growth than the first 6. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member FaganBecker Posted January 23 Author Regular Member Share Posted January 23 Brief update! Spoke to HLC again. Their patient liaison consultant had discussed my situation with the doctors there, with some close up photos of the situation. They have waived the 12 month protocol, admitting that it shouldn't look like this and that there are too many multiples in the hairline. I can't quite repeat the science of it having not exactly retained it all that well - something to do with the splitting of multiple grafts usually being the process when you have lots of multiples and that not having gone quite right or been done properly with me - but that they would be giving me another row of singles on the front and a softening of the lines of the hairline too. Perhaps closing off the corners. Essentially, they want to make good on the initial promise - that I'd come away happy with a decent hairline. It was a very positive call, the guy - who first time around seemed pretty rushed and dismissive - really seemed very invested in ensuring that I knew HLC intended to make this right. They said that I could come back anytime to get this fixed and that I just had to let them know when it suited me. So all considered, I think I'll go back to them. Been exchanging pictures with a couple of the guys I met there who I think for the 6 months mark both have resoundingly better results than I do. One of them started with a bit more hair than me and the other with a lot less, but from their photos both look like you'd never know they'd ever lost a hair. Clearly my growth wasn't great so far. I do have TMJ - jaw muscle clenching, if you don't know - which does inflames my temple muscles and give me headaches. I am wondering if that might have cut some circulation to my scalp, since the vein runs up the side of your head. Planning to get another round of botox into my temple muscles to hopefully knock out those muscles for a bit, in case there is anything to this theory of mine. Nonetheless, beyond the growth side of it, it is clear that mistakes were made regarding the design and execution, e.g the lack of singles/ excess of multiples + an awkwardly straight hairline design, which has given an unnatural and pluggy look. HLC very pleasantly surprised me today by taking some degree responsibility for that and clearly want to make it right. So all considered, I'm happy with the direction of travel, though quite apprehensive about having to go through all this again. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Britanium Posted January 24 Senior Member Share Posted January 24 This is very good to hear, taking responsibility and giving a possible solution! Lets hope if you do go back then it will give you closer to what was originally expected/planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member jjalay Posted January 24 Regular Member Share Posted January 24 37 minutes ago, FaganBecker said: Brief update! Spoke to HLC again. Their patient liaison consultant had discussed my situation with the doctors there, with some close up photos of the situation. They have waived the 12 month protocol, admitting that it shouldn't look like this and that there are too many multiples in the hairline. I can't quite repeat the science of it having not exactly retained it all that well - something to do with the splitting of multiple grafts usually being the process when you have lots of multiples and that not having gone quite right or been done properly with me - but that they would be giving me another row of singles on the front and a softening of the lines of the hairline too. Perhaps closing off the corners. Essentially, they want to make good on the initial promise - that I'd come away happy with a decent hairline. It was a very positive call, the guy - who first time around seemed pretty rushed and dismissive - really seemed very invested in ensuring that I knew HLC intended to make this right. They said that I could come back anytime to get this fixed and that I just had to let them know when it suited me. So all considered, I think I'll go back to them. Been exchanging pictures with a couple of the guys I met there who I think for the 6 months mark both have resoundingly better results than I do. One of them started with a bit more hair than me and the other with a lot less, but from their photos both look like you'd never know they'd ever lost a hair. Clearly my growth wasn't great so far. I do have TMJ - jaw muscle clenching, if you don't know - which does inflames my temple muscles and give me headaches. I am wondering if that might have cut some circulation to my scalp, since the vein runs up the side of your head. Planning to get another round of botox into my temple muscles to hopefully knock out those muscles for a bit, in case there is anything to this theory of mine. Nonetheless, beyond the growth side of it, it is clear that mistakes were made regarding the design and execution, e.g the lack of singles/ excess of multiples + an awkwardly straight hairline design, which has given an unnatural and pluggy look. HLC very pleasantly surprised me today by taking some degree responsibility for that and clearly want to make it right. So all considered, I'm happy with the direction of travel, though quite apprehensive about having to go through all this again. I would not jump into a second surgery before the 12 month mark in your case. Honestly i dont know if its better to add more singles in order to repair this or to remove many of the multigrafts and replace them with single grafts. You hairline is already low enough and in order to camouflage this properly you will have to bring the hairline another half cm low, this wont age nice. Before making your decision you should have a second opinion from doctors that specilize in such repair cases like BIsanga, Lupanzula in Belgium, Edward ball, manni mittal and raghu reddy in the UK. You dont have to lose anything and its always better to make an informed decision knowing all the aspects. If you decide to go with the same clinic aske them who will perform the surgery on you and to show you examples of similar cases like yours where they have managed to do a repair. If they dont have such examples, run for the hills. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member duchaine Posted January 24 Senior Member Share Posted January 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, FaganBecker said: Brief update! Spoke to HLC again. Their patient liaison consultant had discussed my situation with the doctors there, with some close up photos of the situation. They have waived the 12 month protocol, admitting that it shouldn't look like this and that there are too many multiples in the hairline. I can't quite repeat the science of it having not exactly retained it all that well - something to do with the splitting of multiple grafts usually being the process when you have lots of multiples and that not having gone quite right or been done properly with me - but that they would be giving me another row of singles on the front and a softening of the lines of the hairline too. Perhaps closing off the corners. Essentially, they want to make good on the initial promise - that I'd come away happy with a decent hairline. It was a very positive call, the guy - who first time around seemed pretty rushed and dismissive - really seemed very invested in ensuring that I knew HLC intended to make this right. They said that I could come back anytime to get this fixed and that I just had to let them know when it suited me. So all considered, I think I'll go back to them. Been exchanging pictures with a couple of the guys I met there who I think for the 6 months mark both have resoundingly better results than I do. One of them started with a bit more hair than me and the other with a lot less, but from their photos both look like you'd never know they'd ever lost a hair. Clearly my growth wasn't great so far. I do have TMJ - jaw muscle clenching, if you don't know - which does inflames my temple muscles and give me headaches. I am wondering if that might have cut some circulation to my scalp, since the vein runs up the side of your head. Planning to get another round of botox into my temple muscles to hopefully knock out those muscles for a bit, in case there is anything to this theory of mine. Nonetheless, beyond the growth side of it, it is clear that mistakes were made regarding the design and execution, e.g the lack of singles/ excess of multiples + an awkwardly straight hairline design, which has given an unnatural and pluggy look. HLC very pleasantly surprised me today by taking some degree responsibility for that and clearly want to make it right. So all considered, I'm happy with the direction of travel, though quite apprehensive about having to go through all this again. I had hard mewing and facial exercise during the first months after my HT (it was during the pandemic period and I had nothing to do at home...) and didn't cause any problem. So, I think that TMJ was not a co-factor for poor growth. IMHO, the truth is that bad HT sometimes happens. What makes a difference is how the clinic handles the situation. Happy to see that they will try to fix your problem. Edited January 24 by duchaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member wembley Posted January 24 Regular Member Share Posted January 24 10 hours ago, FaganBecker said: Brief update! Spoke to HLC again. Their patient liaison consultant had discussed my situation with the doctors there, with some close up photos of the situation. They have waived the 12 month protocol, admitting that it shouldn't look like this and that there are too many multiples in the hairline. I can't quite repeat the science of it having not exactly retained it all that well - something to do with the splitting of multiple grafts usually being the process when you have lots of multiples and that not having gone quite right or been done properly with me - but that they would be giving me another row of singles on the front and a softening of the lines of the hairline too. Perhaps closing off the corners. Essentially, they want to make good on the initial promise - that I'd come away happy with a decent hairline. It was a very positive call, the guy - who first time around seemed pretty rushed and dismissive - really seemed very invested in ensuring that I knew HLC intended to make this right. They said that I could come back anytime to get this fixed and that I just had to let them know when it suited me. So all considered, I think I'll go back to them. Been exchanging pictures with a couple of the guys I met there who I think for the 6 months mark both have resoundingly better results than I do. One of them started with a bit more hair than me and the other with a lot less, but from their photos both look like you'd never know they'd ever lost a hair. Clearly my growth wasn't great so far. I do have TMJ - jaw muscle clenching, if you don't know - which does inflames my temple muscles and give me headaches. I am wondering if that might have cut some circulation to my scalp, since the vein runs up the side of your head. Planning to get another round of botox into my temple muscles to hopefully knock out those muscles for a bit, in case there is anything to this theory of mine. Nonetheless, beyond the growth side of it, it is clear that mistakes were made regarding the design and execution, e.g the lack of singles/ excess of multiples + an awkwardly straight hairline design, which has given an unnatural and pluggy look. HLC very pleasantly surprised me today by taking some degree responsibility for that and clearly want to make it right. So all considered, I'm happy with the direction of travel, though quite apprehensive about having to go through all this again. Thats very good to hear...😃 That's an ethical response from HLC trying fix any problem that worries you with your result so far. I'm sure HLC will do its best to satify you at the fullest! I would suggest you to wait until 12 months before going back to HLC for the touch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member FaganBecker Posted January 25 Author Regular Member Share Posted January 25 23 hours ago, wembley said: Thats very good to hear...😃 That's an ethical response from HLC trying fix any problem that worries you with your result so far. I'm sure HLC will do its best to satify you at the fullest! I would suggest you to wait until 12 months before going back to HLC for the touch up. May I ask why you'd suggest waiting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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