NHI Los Angeles - Dr. Jae Pak

[rpachigo]

You've received some sage advice here. It would be wise of you to consider it. For evidence of recent Rassman results, look under hair transplant experiences posted under doctors. You will see how 7600 grafts were crammed into the frontal 1/3 and the ensuing commentary. Judge for yourself.

[Dr. Pak's patient]

Originally posted by rpachigo:

You've received some sage advice here. It would be wise of you to consider it. For evidence of recent Rassman results, look under hair transplant experiences posted under doctors. You will see how 7600 grafts were crammed into the frontal 1/3 and the ensuing commentary. Judge for yourself.

 

The point you guys raise about numbers of the grafts required to reach the maximum capacity of density I seek is very well taken. I agree that I had underestimated initially. The 1,500 to 1,800 grafts number provided to me by to other HT clinics that I had visited (not NHI) was too low. When I called Dr. Pak and gave him these figures with photos he said a final assesment would be done in person with him, and that 1,800 may not achieve the density I have targeted (December 2000 photo). I was clutching at my wallet (not wanting to be broke), but you've convinced me that with 1,800 I am far away from the desired results and as a result I am prepared to move up to 2,500 grafts.

 

How did I come to this number you ask? Well this site also gave that to me using an awesome tool, go here http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/MM-center.asp and scroll down then click on "calculate number of grafts needed, after the pop-up click on skip intro. Now select only Areas 1, 2, and 3 (the three areas I am currently targeting for restoration), move the the number of grafts per square centimeter bar hard right to 45 square centimeters, and click calculate. The response given is 3,100 grafts and 6,610 hairs needed in total. This is taking a person who is bald in these locations, which I am not in Area 3, my Area 3 is thinning but a significant amount of hair is still present there. I conclude that 2,500 (+ a few extras possibly) will restore my Areas 1, 2, and 3 to a very full appearance.

[Ventuoguy]

My opinion is that it's not as simple in having the density of transplanted grafts which can be "calculated" or "visualized" on a computer animation, it's what the physician can realistically achieve, along with his staff Dense pack techniques can be more prone to failure, as you attempt to increase the density of the packing, you may decrease the survival/yield! This can happen for numerous reasons but we all know an 80% yield on 60grafts/cm2 is less than 100% yield on 50grafts/cm2. I think most of the 'failures' that have been shown here, the initial photos showed very dense looking packing and everyone is wondering why the yield is so low. Poor surgeon judgement and local conditions cause faiure in hair transplants.

[Dr. Pak's patient]

Originally posted by Ventuoguy:

My opinion is that it's not as simple in having the density of transplanted grafts which can be "calculated" or "visualized" on a computer animation, it's what the physician can realistically achieve, along with his staff Dense pack techniques can be more prone to failure, as you attempt to increase the density of the packing, you may decrease the survival/yield! This can happen for numerous reasons but we all know an 80% yield on 60grafts/cm2 is less than 100% yield on 50grafts/cm2. I think most of the 'failures' that have been shown here, the initial photos showed very dense looking packing and everyone is wondering why the yield is so low. Poor surgeon judgement and local conditions cause faiure in hair transplants.

 

Wow, just fascinated by the technical info, please keep stuffing my brain...you guys are the cat's meow. I have a call into NHI for Dr. Pak and/or Rassman to address some more specific questions, one of which will be what is the maximum number of grafts per square centimeter that they've achieved sucessfully, and what was the survival rate associated to that procedure. Thanks!

[rpachigo]

Here's a recent thread. Again judge for yourself honestly.

 

http://hair-restoration-info.c...7683/m/233108914/p/1

[Dr. Pak's patient]

Originally posted by rpachigo:

Here's a recent thread. Again judge for yourself honestly.

 

http://hair-restoration-info.c...7683/m/233108914/p/1

 

I conceed up front that I'm not a seasoned critic like some of you, therefore my opinion may change over time, but my current understanding of that thread as it applies to my situation is as follows. This NHI patient was catagorized as a Norwood "3A evolving into a 4A pattern" which would indicate a little more hairloss loss than what I have now; I am a 2A evolving into a 3A. It looks like a good end result with a natural looking straight and full hairline. However 3,790 is more grafts than I would had thought would be required. NHI did two of his procedures totaling 2,375 of those grafts, and another clinic(s) previously did the initial 1,415. In my opinion four procedures is absurd in order to achieve this end result, only if he was a 5+ or if the first couple went bad could I understand having this many procedures. As I posted earlier, I want only one procedure and Finasteride should do the rest, but MAYBE in the future will need a second procedures to achieve this level of density, I am now more accepting of this possibility and we'll have to see. I have some advantages going for me that this patient did not, first my scalp is a clean canvas with no previous failed HT to repair, or scar issues, healing issues etc, and I have less realestate to cover. I'm looking forward to meeting Dr. Pak Thursday, and remain optimistic with my upcoming HT; I will keep this thread posted with developments.

[aaron1234]

"As I posted earlier, I want only one procedure and Finasteride should do the rest"

 

If you want only one procedure then you need more than 2,000-2,500 grafts. Add another 1,000 and you'll be in the ballpark. I know you feel committed since you probably put down a huge deposit. But at least consult over email with other clinics to get some more input.

[rpachigo]

Choose wisely grasshopper. Your head depends on it.

[Dr. Pak's patient]

Originally posted by aaron1234:

1. If you want only one procedure then you need more than 2,000-2,500 grafts. Add another 1,000 and you'll be in the ballpark.

 

2. I know you feel committed since you probably put down a huge deposit.

 

3. But at least consult over email with other clinics to get some more input.

 

1. That would mean 3,000 to 3,500 grafts. I respect the opinions of people here, y'all certainly know better than me, but the medical practices and doctors I've consulted all say that high of a number sounds to them like a whole lot more grafts than I need.

 

2. Deposit was only $1K and Dr.Pak offered it all back to me. After I asked that he read through this thread he replied if your not comfortable I'll refund 100% of your deposit, but I turned him down...I am comfortable with him; no reason not to be. To be perfectly frank, Dr. Pak was solicited by this site at one time but decided he was not going to pay the high monthly fees associated with being endorsed here. For whatever reason Dr. Rassman maintains his membership, I can imagine it's because of perceptions and the business it brings him.

 

3. In the last 24 hours I have consulted with another highly surgeon recommend by this website. After reviewing my same three photos (including the target photo) he too recommend 1,800 to 2,000 grafts. He also said he achieves a 90% survial rate on the average and paks approximately 50 grafts per square centimeter, but up to 90 grafts is possible. Lastly he said if I wanted a second procedure to achieve higher density that would most likely be the way to achieve the result I am seeking. This surgeon quoted me at $7,500 for 2,000 grafts which works out to $3.75 each. This works out to about exactly the same as I'm paying now because NHI is reimbursing 100% of travel expenses (flights, rental car, taxi).

[Ventuoguy]

Wait a minute- does a physician have to pay to be endorsed on this site??

[Dr. Pak's patient]

Originally posted by Ventuoguy:

Wait a minute- does a physician have to pay to be endorsed on this site??

 

It was not mentioned as part of the "screening" criteria, but apparently yes they do, and I understand it's quite expensive. This fact adds a whole new dimension to my perspective of this site...I guess I am pretty nieve because honestly I am somewhat shocked by this revelation.

[phil mascallpen]

Originally posted by Dr. Pak's patient:

In the last 24 hours I have consulted with another highly surgeon recommend by this website. After reviewing my same three photos (including the target photo) he too recommend 1,800 to 2,000 grafts. He also said he achieves a 90% survial rate on the average and paks approximately 50 grafts per square centimeter, but up to 90 grafts is possible. Lastly he said if I wanted a second procedure to achieve higher density that would most likely be the way to achieve the result I am seeking. This surgeon quoted me at $7,500 for 2,000 grafts which works out to $3.75 each. This works out to about exactly the same as I'm paying now because NHI is reimbursing 100% of travel expenses (flights, rental car, taxi).

 

Would you please tell us who was the highly recommended surgeon? Thanks.

[aaron1234]

Do some searching and you'll see that NHI has had a somewhat rocky relationship with the HTN. I do think that baldingblog.com is one of the best sources for hair loss on the web along with this website. But there has been some recent NHI photos that has caused members here to become somewhat queasy about their work. At any rate, if you feel comfortable with Dr. Pak than go ahead with him. I've seen both good and bad results from him. It's just that there are a few clinics out there that I have seen consistently amazing results. I'd rather cast my lot with them.

[aaron1234]

And of course docs have to pay this site. How else would this site be maintained and defended legally from crooks like Armani?

[Dr. Pak's patient]

Originally posted by phil mascallpen:

Would you please tell us who was the highly recommended surgeon? Thanks.

 

Phil I'm curious as to why it matter which one, is it that you don't believe that a doctor on this site would cite those numbers to me? I even went as far as decribing everything I heard on this forum...did my best to pushing for him to move up from 1,800 - 2,000 but he was not inclined to budge. I'll tell y'all later if that is OK with you, seems like opinions are very rigid now and I don't know how this doctor would appreciate backlash.

[Dr. Pak's patient]

Originally posted by aaron1234:

...It's just that there are a few clinics out there that I have seen consistently amazing results. I'd rather cast my lot with them.

 

Other than Dr. Shapiro, which clinics are you refering to?

[thanatopsis_awry]

This site and its members invest an exceptional amount of time and money into cultivating, and henceforth maintaining, the resource and platform of information, accountability, and personal expression that is offered carte blanche to patients worldwide. To people much like yourself, ironically.

 

Think for a moment, and consider the sheer amount of risk, and very real amount of money and time spent that simply goes into allowing the fundamental freedoms of speech that serve the patient and patient alone. These don't come cheap; and it's because they themselves aren't cheap. Aaron mentioned a great example, but it is far from an isolated incident.

 

This is to say nothing of the laborious vetting process, and adherance to principle, that maintains the site's high integrity.

 

Please consider the simple, but telling fact that this site/community turns down, expells, if not outright shuns a vast array of doctors and clinics...yes, the very same doctors who would otherwise love to pay those "shocking" fees.

 

It would be a shocking revelation if a site as well-maintained, robust, and worthwhile as this didn't generate revenue.

[Julius]

Quote:"Dr. Pak was solicited by this site at one time but decided he was not going to pay the high monthly fees associated with being endorsed here"

 

I agree with most of what thana said especially admirable is how this forum rejects and ejects Drs who are not performing. But I think that if a Dr is producing great results but is unwilling to pay the fees associated for recommendation that these doctors should be put on some list of merit or something. But it would make sense for the best doctors to naturally want to be a part of such a prestigious coalition of recommended surgeons who are judge on their results.

[the B spot]

All doctors are able to post their results on this site, without paying a dime.

 

However, those who are asked to join this organization are required to pay a fee.

 

Now, on to your situation.

 

At 45, you are a CLEAR candidate do target your frontal zone a bit more aggressively and add 500-600 grafts to your thin crown to boost that as well.

 

I would estimate 2000 grafts initially to the frontal zone, but would do so knowing 2200-2300 is probably the right number, add the 500-600 to crown and you are looking at 2700-3000K grafts.

 

I say this knowing that even if you did 3000K in the manner I described, you would still be back a year later for 1000-1200 grafts to refine/add selective density to the hairline.

 

I think the approach with Dr. Pak is fine if you 100% understand that your 100% going to be back a year later to another 1700 or so, and your going to be back a year after than to do the final touch-up.

 

My suggestion is to do the larger first session then one final touch-up.

 

Take Care,

Jason

[Bill - Seemiller]

To be perfectly frank, Dr. Pak was solicited by this site at one time but decided he was not going to pay the high monthly fees associated with being endorsed here. For whatever reason Dr. Rassman maintains his membership, I can imagine it's because of perceptions and the business it brings him.

 

Dr. Pak's Patient,

 

I think you ought to check your sources and get your facts straight.

 

To be clear, Dr. Pak was being considered for recommendation some time ago. Dr. Pak never expressed any concern about sponsorship fees. In fact, he was very agreeable and excited by the opportunity of being considered for recommendation. Their technical guy Mark was going to start posting examples of his work. However, after several email exchanges, Mark never seemed to get around to posting photos. After awhile, email communication stopped and the ball left in their court to post photos to be considered or not.

 

Any physician whose ever been interested in recommendation and has proven to meet our high standards has never had a problem paying a sponsorship fee to support our community. Frankly, the sponsorship fees recommended doctors pay to support this educational community is nominal compared to the benefits they receive.

 

In light of your recent statements, I'm starting to wonder what your agenda is here. Are you seeking advice from this community, or are you here to promote Dr. Pak and make false statements about our community?

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

I also want to add that the fact that surgeons recommended by this community pay a sponsorship fee to support it is no secret. Everything, including how this site is funded is laid out clearly on our physicians standards page.

 

It takes a lot of time and money to run a successful online community. Thus, surgeons who meet our standards agree to pay a sponsorship fee to support our community, much like students with impeccable SAT scores and high GPAs agrees to pay a tuition once they're accepted into an elite University.

 

I hope this helps explains things a little better.

 

Bill

[Ventuoguy]

Thanks Bill for your transparency and attention. It was kind of a suprise. I do realize that things need to get paid for. I also did not realize until this past weekend while digging through the site that Dr. Armani has sued this website. Obviously there are large amounts of emotions stirred up by this topic. Emotions that our non-follicularly challenged brethren don't experience. Kudos to Bill and Pat!

[phil mascallpen]

Originally posted by Dr. Pak's patient:

Originally posted by phil mascallpen:

Would you please tell us who was the highly recommended surgeon? Thanks.

 

Phil I'm curious as to why it matter which one, is it that you don't believe that a doctor on this site would cite those numbers to me? I even went as far as decribing everything I heard on this forum...did my best to pushing for him to move up from 1,800 - 2,000 but he was not inclined to budge. I'll tell y'all later if that is OK with you, seems like opinions are very rigid now and I don't know how this doctor would appreciate backlash.

 

No conspiracy, I just wanted to know who it is. If a doctor on this site gave an estimate and stands by it I don't see why he would care if people knew that. Doctors do consultations all the time and they get discussed here.

 

Since you said your surgery is this week I just want to wish you good luck and I hope you get a great result.

 

Please keep us updated.

[Dr. Pak's patient]

Phil - Thanks for the well wishes.

 

Bill - Not sure...I may have unitentionally offended you in some way, if so much appologies. I just posted my understanding of this subject, but may have got off topic, or in this case may have posted a misunderstanding. I assure you all I have no agenda, have nothing to gain from promoting any doctor, and most of all honestly meant no disrespect to anyone or this site.

[Bill - Seemiller]

No problem Dr. Pak's patient. I do ask however, before making assumptions or potentially false claims about how this community is run or how we recommend physicians that you ask me about it .

 

All the Best,

 

Bill