Finasteride Yes or NO

[sunsurfhair]

4 hours ago, Mike10 said:

to me that is not a big accomplishment replacing  Fin by oral Minox. 

 

2 hours ago, NARMAK said:

A lot of people that don't tolerate Finasteride are saying Oral Minoxodil has acted as somewhat of a substitute for them and as effective. Given we don't know the true Minoxodil mechanism of action, i guess if that's all the person can take, then fair enough. 

However, i find it interesting though the person said:

*PS, i know this is the original post you quoted but it's saying it as tours because of the way i quoted the selection*

Then says i'm on 5mg Oral Minoxodil lol. Also being on TRT is known to generally spike DHT in a person too. How much depends on exactly what dosage i guess the person is using and why. If its acting like a PED, then more than likely its spiking DHT higher than normal too. 

Here come the Finasteride nutsos again in denial of their limp dic#s and incredible amount of published studies on the significant dangers of 5ARs. First of all, why don’t you do research on ultra low dose minoxidil. It is incredibly safe. Incredibly. In fact, if you looked at any of my posts, I’ve been monitored extremely closely with it, and everything remains perfect and I do not have one single side effect on oral minox. 

I’m very aware of good T levels causing an increase of DHT. My levels are monitored every 4-6 weeks and my DHT levels still remain lower but in a good range, DESPITE being on TRT. So thanks for the advice there but it’s been completely under control with no advance in any loss since being on a replacement dose - notice I said REPLACEMENT dose not supraphysiological dose of T, but I doubt you don’t have a clue of what I’m talking about anyway. DHT in an adult male is an incredibly important and potent androgen. The way a man responds to DHT is due to their genetic susceptibility - some are hyper sensitive and some have low sensitivity. That’s why serum levels are essentially useless other then just to get a gauge of circulating hormone. 

And no offense dude, I would much rather have healthy levels of hormones across the board and the long term benefits of that (brain, muscle, bone, sexual, cardio, metabolic, etc.) vs the fear of losing my hair, which I’m no where near and I’m in my 40s now. 

Go read all the most current research on ORAL minox - it is an incredibly effective medication, extremely safe, and it treats many different hair conditions. It’s not always about straight AGA my friends. It’s a completely different mechanism vs the topical. Vascular health is incredibly important to follicular health. And I’ll rephrase, I will never take ORAL FINASTERIDE again, even if you held a gun to my head. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by sunsurfhair

[sunsurfhair]

On 10/14/2022 at 5:20 PM, Jay said:

Hello melvin - have you continued taking finasteride after your HT?

He did pre HT then had side effects and stopped. He will be trialing the topical gel from Dr Hassan after his baby is born. 

[NARMAK]

2 minutes ago, sunsurfhair said:

 

Here come the Finasteride nutsos again in denial of their limp dic#s and incredible amount of published studies on the significant dangers of 5ARs. First of all, why don’t you do research on ultra low dose minoxidil. It is incredibly safe. Incredibly. In fact, if you looked at any of my posts, I’ve been monitored extremely closely with it, and everything remains perfect and I do not have one single side effect on oral minox. 

I’m very aware of good T levels causing an increase of DHT. My levels are monitored every 4-6 weeks and my DHT levels still remain lower but in a good range, DESPITE being on TRT. So thanks for the advice there but it’s been completely under control with no advance in any loss since being on a replacement dose - notice I said REPLACEMENT dose not supraphysiological dose of T, but I doubt you don’t have a clue of what I’m talking about anyway. 

And no offense dude, I would much rather have healthy levels of hormones across the board and the long term benefits of that (brain, muscle, bone, sexual, cardio, metabolic, etc.) vs the fear of losing my hair, which I’m no where near and I’m in my 40s now. 

Go read all the most current research on ORAL minox - it is an incredibly effective medication, extremely safe, and it treats many different hair conditions. It’s not always about straight AGA my friends. It’s a completely different mechanism vs the topical. Vascular health is incredibly important to follicular health. 

Sounds like the only person getting offended here is you. Your own words were that you're never touching an oral pill again, and then obviously i pointed out you're taking oral Minoxodil. So maybe your point was that you aren't going to ever take oral Finasteride again ever, and that correction would have been more than sufficient yet you had to take the cheapest shot you possibly could to try and what, attack our masculinity? Only people with a fragile ego would have a true reaction to what you said. I've been candid enough with my experience and it's people perhaps like yourself that show what i've said all along, that your deliberate use of this language as almost a guarantee people will have side affects leading to ED hence your "limp" comment followed by an insult. 

Just say you had side affects, it didn't work for you but generally it does for most other people. That's how Melvin on here approaches it and many others. 

Look, i don't know what issues maybe you are working through to lead you to insult other members on here like that, but if i was so inclined, i could have taken cheap shots like "Oh look, i guess the extra TRT is causing roid rage(!)" and other stupid stuff but i know that by and large, that's a bit of a myth and it's other things namely being a terrible mannered individual that's the cause. 

I appreciate you try to share studies etc. to back up your points, but they're largely seeming to come from a place of supporting the bias you have and want to support. 

[Melvin- Admin]

On 10/14/2022 at 2:20 PM, Jay said:

Hello melvin - have you continued taking finasteride after your HT?

I’m not currently on fin, but will be starting XYON soon. Within the next month.

[sunsurfhair]

14 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

Sounds like the only person getting offended here is you. Your own words were that you're never touching an oral pill again, and then obviously i pointed out you're taking oral Minoxodil. So maybe your point was that you aren't going to ever take oral Finasteride again ever, and that correction would have been more than sufficient yet you had to take the cheapest shot you possibly could to try and what, attack our masculinity? Only people with a fragile ego would have a true reaction to what you said. I've been candid enough with my experience and it's people perhaps like yourself that show what i've said all along, that your deliberate use of this language as almost a guarantee people will have side affects leading to ED hence your "limp" comment followed by an insult. 

Just say you had side affects, it didn't work for you but generally it does for most other people. That's how Melvin on here approaches it and many others. 

Look, i don't know what issues maybe you are working through to lead you to insult other members on here like that, but if i was so inclined, i could have taken cheap shots like "Oh look, i guess the extra TRT is causing roid rage(!)" and other stupid stuff but i know that by and large, that's a bit of a myth and it's other things namely being a terrible mannered individual that's the cause. 

I appreciate you try to share studies etc. to back up your points, but they're largely seeming to come from a place of supporting the bias you have and want to support. 

It was obviously implied the oral pill I was referring to was Finasteride. I’m not getting into this again with you. I have no bias, read my prior posts: I support a person’s choice absolutely and am well aware there are many men who do fine on Finasteride, but it is important that everyone should be properly informed of the consequences. Unfortunately, I had a horrible experience myself years ago which caused a lot of problems for me, now (thankfully) well under control with lifestyle and the correct HRT / medical management. Definitely not roid rage since my T sits consistent at a very healthy 836 again (top of scale 850), but if my message came off aggressive then I do apologize for that. Trust me my ego is not fragile, almost comical to think that, but I do get sensitive when I see all these blind 5AR folks, sadly at times I do think you’re one of them, and it’s sad when there is an insane amount of evidence of the damage from these meds. I still feel very strongly, 5ARs should be removed from the market, and the hair loss industry should focus on much safer options for all of us. I fully support that. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by sunsurfhair

[NARMAK]

1 minute ago, sunsurfhair said:

It was obviously implied the oral pill I was referring was Finasteride. I’m not getting into this again with you. I have no bias, read my prior posts: I support a person’s choice absolutely and am well aware there are many men who do fine on Finasteride, but it is important that everyone should be properly informed of the consequences. Unfortunately, I had a horrible experience myself years ago which caused a lot of problems for me, now (thankfully) well under control with lifestyle and the correct HRT / medical management. Definitely not roid rage since my T sits consistent at a very healthy 836 again (top of scale 850), but if my message came off aggressive then I do apologize for that. Trust me my ego is not fragile, almost comical to think that, but I do get sensitive when I see all these blind 5AR folks, sadly at times I do think you’re one of them, and it’s sad when there is an insane amount of evidence of the damage from these meds. I still feel very strongly, 5ARs should be removed from the market, and the hair loss industry should focus on much safer options for all of us. I fully support that. 

I would not place myself anywhere near a blind person with my health. In fact, i held off on Finasteride for over a decade from when i first became aware of my hair loss when i was legally able to start at 18 merely on the basis of fear mongering. It wasn't until i did my own research and found the vast majority of people tolerate the medication well, that i decided it was worth trying and the risk of permanent side affects was incredibly small. 

I also don't need a breakdown of your T levels, i'm sure you're looking after your health as necessary. Testosterone isn't like many things with human physiology a black and white thing, so levels aren't always revealing the full story. 

I also strongly disagree there's an abundance of evidence to simply yank the products from market, leaving millions of men without an alternative option at present, but i do agree there's a need for new medication and treatments. Things like Pyrilutamide seem to be promising but we don't know when it's coming to market and at what price, and the topical application of it 2x a day like Minoxodil will probably also put people off from an adherence PoV.

[GoliGoliGoli]

11 minutes ago, sunsurfhair said:

It was obviously implied the oral pill I was referring to was Finasteride. I’m not getting into this again with you. I have no bias, read my prior posts: I support a person’s choice absolutely and am well aware there are many men who do fine on Finasteride, but it is important that everyone should be properly informed of the consequences. Unfortunately, I had a horrible experience myself years ago which caused a lot of problems for me, now (thankfully) well under control with lifestyle and the correct HRT / medical management. Definitely not roid rage since my T sits consistent at a very healthy 836 again (top of scale 850), but if my message came off aggressive then I do apologize for that. Trust me my ego is not fragile, almost comical to think that, but I do get sensitive when I see all these blind 5AR folks, sadly at times I do think you’re one of them, and it’s sad when there is an insane amount of evidence of the damage from these meds. I still feel very strongly, 5ARs should be removed from the market, and the hair loss industry should focus on much safer options for all of us. I fully support that. 

Out of curiosity how long were you taking oral Fin?

 

I'm curious about trying oral min but the fact that you're on it for the rest of your life is what puts me off due to the potential for it slowly having a detrimental effect on your cardiovascular system. I've also had really great results from topical so not sure if it's even worth it to switch. 

[Mike10]

33 minutes ago, sunsurfhair said:

 

Here come the Finasteride nutsos again in denial of their limp dic#s and incredible amount of published studies on the significant dangers of 5ARs. First of all, why don’t you do research on ultra low dose minoxidil. It is incredibly safe. Incredibly. In fact, if you looked at any of my posts, I’ve been monitored extremely closely with it, and everything remains perfect and I do not have one single side effect on oral minox. 

I’m very aware of good T levels causing an increase of DHT. My levels are monitored every 4-6 weeks and my DHT levels still remain lower but in a good range, DESPITE being on TRT. So thanks for the advice there but it’s been completely under control with no advance in any loss since being on a replacement dose - notice I said REPLACEMENT dose not supraphysiological dose of T, but I doubt you don’t have a clue of what I’m talking about anyway. DHT in an adult male is an incredibly important and potent androgen. The way a man responds to DHT is due to their genetic susceptibility - some are hyper sensitive and some have low sensitivity. That’s why serum levels are essentially useless other then just to get a gauge of circulating hormone. 

And no offense dude, I would much rather have healthy levels of hormones across the board and the long term benefits of that (brain, muscle, bone, sexual, cardio, metabolic, etc.) vs the fear of losing my hair, which I’m no where near and I’m in my 40s now. 

Go read all the most current research on ORAL minox - it is an incredibly effective medication, extremely safe, and it treats many different hair conditions. It’s not always about straight AGA my friends. It’s a completely different mechanism vs the topical. Vascular health is incredibly important to follicular health. And I’ll rephrase, I will never take ORAL FINASTERIDE again, even if you held a gun to my head. 

Hi there, I do not prefer either one. To me, both Minox and Fin are  a no go

[NARMAK]

7 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Out of curiosity how long were you taking oral Fin?

 

I'm curious about trying oral min but the fact that you're on it for the rest of your life is what puts me off due to the potential for it slowly having a detrimental effect on your cardiovascular system. I've also had really great results from topical so not sure if it's even worth it to switch. 

I guess whether topical or oral, they're indefinite treatments for as long as you want to use them to keep your hairs. 

I personally had some concerns around Oral Minoxodil too, but i'm starting to come around to the idea of using it mainly because of the fact that it's easier to adhere to taking a pill once a day than the time for topical applications ay 2x a day. 

I figured the extra Trichosis you could try resolve with laser hair removal if necessary. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

1 minute ago, NARMAK said:

I guess whether topical or oral, they're indefinite treatments for as long as you want to use them to keep your hairs. 

I personally had some concerns around Oral Minoxodil too, but i'm starting to come around to the idea of using it mainly because of the fact that it's easier to adhere to taking a pill once a day than the time for topical applications ay 2x a day. 

I figured the extra Trichosis you could try resolve with laser hair removal if necessary. 

Well yes both are indefinite solutions but the topical  goes far less systemic so the potential for sides is greatly reduced. That's the big difference.

I only use 1x per day and have seen great results. Like half a Norwood added back to my hairline and the entire front section thickening up. Been on it about 5 months and am now considering not even having any work done to my hairline and only addressing my crown. Will see what my Dr thinks when I go in for pre-surgery consult. 

[NARMAK]

Just now, GoliGoliGoli said:

Well yes both are indefinite solutions but the topical  goes far less systemic so the potential for sides is greatly reduced. That's the big difference.

I only use 1x per day and have seen great results. Like half a Norwood added back to my hairline and the entire front section thickening up. Been on it about 5 months and am now considering not even having any work done to my hairline and only addressing my crown. Will see what my Dr thinks when I go in for pre-surgery consult. 

That's good, seems like you had a positive response to only 1x a day. I tried to use it a bit here and there to boost growth but the main reason i am holding off is that i still feel like i can benefit from Dutasteride and i'm not sure if there's much more hair growth to be gained. Anecdotally people say that it makes the hair healthier and thicker, so if that's the main benefit, i'm not 100% sure i need to be on it for that. 

I do think there's becoming a more positive conversation around its use for hair loss, but it's still a joke that accidental treatments with tweaked dosages are mainly all we still have for fighting hair loss. 

[pkipling]

I often feel like I'm on an island by myself around here, buuuut I haven't taken finasteride in years. I experienced (very mild) side effects, but they were enough for me to take my chances and stop taking it. I weighed the pros and cons, and decided that it was more important for me to make sure that my sexual equipment stayed in tip-top shape - and my hair loss wasn't so advanced that I felt my sexual health was worth sacrificing. My hair loss has been stable since my hair transplant 8 years ago, and so I'm aware the decision I made was a luxury many guys don't have. If I ever notice my hair loss start to advance, I'll seriously consider hopping back on medication to get ahead of any further hair loss - and hope that I respond better to it!

All of that said, I would like to point out that:
A) the majority of men take finasteride without any side effects.
B) Hair loss is progressive, and going without medication comes with it's own set of risks
C) Even though I don't take it personally, I always recommend giving medication a try to see if it works for you. The science supports that it can really save you from losing a lot of hair.
D) Be very diligent when it comes to evaluating if you're experiencing side effects or not. We often "experience" things that aren't really happening simply because we're thinking about them or afraid of them happening. I gave myself a few solid tries with the medication to see if the sides I was experiencing were real, and I ultimately felt like they were. 

Personally, I'd say give it a shot and see how your body responds.

[Gatsby]

I've been back on finasteride for over a month now on 0.25mg every day and so far so good. However if side effects were to come back then I would just dump finasteride for good and be done with it. I've also been on 2.5mg of oral minoxidil for the same time and I will just continue with that. All the best.

[Fego]

22 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I’m not currently on fin, but will be starting XYON soon. Within the next month.

The people here who tried Xyon say they have side effect from it as the oral Fin. Is there any alternative with almost zero sexual side effects. Sexual life is important than keeping your hair. 

[NARMAK]

19 hours ago, pkipling said:

I often feel like I'm on an island by myself around here, buuuut I haven't taken finasteride in years. I experienced (very mild) side effects, but they were enough for me to take my chances and stop taking it. I weighed the pros and cons, and decided that it was more important for me to make sure that my sexual equipment stayed in tip-top shape - and my hair loss wasn't so advanced that I felt my sexual health was worth sacrificing. My hair loss has been stable since my hair transplant 8 years ago, and so I'm aware the decision I made was a luxury many guys don't have. If I ever notice my hair loss start to advance, I'll seriously consider hopping back on medication to get ahead of any further hair loss - and hope that I respond better to it!

All of that said, I would like to point out that:
A) the majority of men take finasteride without any side effects.
B) Hair loss is progressive, and going without medication comes with it's own set of risks
C) Even though I don't take it personally, I always recommend giving medication a try to see if it works for you. The science supports that it can really save you from losing a lot of hair.
D) Be very diligent when it comes to evaluating if you're experiencing side effects or not. We often "experience" things that aren't really happening simply because we're thinking about them or afraid of them happening. I gave myself a few solid tries with the medication to see if the sides I was experiencing were real, and I ultimately felt like they were. 

Personally, I'd say give it a shot and see how your body responds.

Not on an Island all by yourself at all. This is a very sensible approach and clearly one you arrived at with common sense alongside research with your own experience. 

My hair was also pretty stable i feel but the idea in my head is that i definitely have lost ground and even if it was slowly that had i been on medication i would have saved more hair. So i guess i am grateful i am on the medication now and hopefully saving my hair and regaining any and all possible ground. Sometimes it takes years and years for the full benefits to be realised with Finasteride for individuals it works in and i'm only heading towards year 2 now. I could still benefit from it into my 40s. 

You should always want your equipment to be in tip top shape and imo, that strongly starts with looking after your physical and mental health which a lot of people neglect and then conveniently discount when locating a cause of issues because its more as i've said before easy to boogeyman a medication you can stop. Making meaningful health choices for food or working out etc. takes more steps and effort, which is why i think people think of the laziest options first. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by NARMAK
*typo. I AM grateful being on medication to save my hair

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, Fego said:

The people here who tried Xyon say they have side effect from it as the oral Fin. Is there any alternative with almost zero sexual side effects. Sexual life is important than keeping your hair. 

Sides are a spectrum. There's a threshold, some can take 1mg daily, others 0.25 mg, I think you have to find the right amount. @HairRun got sides initially from Xyon, but then changed his dosage and now doesn't have sexual sides just ball aches. My initial plan is to use it 3x a week at first, then see how my body responds, and adjust it slowly as my body gets used to it.

[HairRun]

15 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Sides are a spectrum. There's a threshold, some can take 1mg daily, others 0.25 mg, I think you have to find the right amount. @HairRun got sides initially from Xyon, but then changed his dosage and now doesn't have sexual sides just ball aches. My initial plan is to use it 3x a week at first, then see how my body responds, and adjust it slowly as my body gets used to it.

One clarification, it wasn't the dosage that eliminated the sexual side effects, it was not using topical minoxidil. I remember on my last trial, I did a half pump of xyon on a Sat, and then waited 6 days and the very next Friday I did topical min, and the sides hit pretty fast, within the same day or next day. 

I am on oral min now, and so far 2 weeks / 2 applications, so far ball aches but no sexual side effects. 

[Fego]

19 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Sides are a spectrum. There's a threshold, some can take 1mg daily, others 0.25 mg, I think you have to find the right amount. @HairRun got sides initially from Xyon, but then changed his dosage and now doesn't have sexual sides just ball aches. My initial plan is to use it 3x a week at first, then see how my body responds, and adjust it slowly as my body gets used to it.

OK

have you considered mesothereby dutastride injection in the clinic  as I heard  but not sure that dutastride mesothereby injection  does not go systematic at all

 

[Melvin- Admin]

2 minutes ago, HairRun said:

One clarification, it wasn't the dosage that eliminated the sexual side effects, it was not using topical minoxidil. I remember on my last trial, I did a half pump of xyon on a Sat, and then waited 6 days and the very next Friday I did topical min, and the sides hit pretty fast, within the same day or next day. 

I am on oral min now, and so far 2 weeks / 2 applications, so far ball aches but no sexual side effects. 

That makes sense, the delivery system of the topical minoxidil probably caused the medication to absorb faster systemically. I will only be using oral min. The siloxysystem gel has to be kept intact. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

12 minutes ago, Fego said:

OK

have you considered mesothereby dutastride injection in the clinic  as I heard  but not sure that dutastride mesothereby injection  does not go systematic at all

 

I think in the US this is still a very rare thing. I'm not aware of anyone in the US doing this but if someone is please leave a reference. 

[Fego]

11 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

I think in the US this is still a very rare thing. I'm not aware of anyone in the US doing this but if someone is please leave a reference. 

I am from Egypt. But the dermatologist whom I went to told me to apply mesothereby dutastride injection once a week in the clinic  and claims that mesothereby injection remains localized within the scalp and does not go systematic like a topical or oral Fin. I want to know from someone who tried this if that is right to proceed or not 

[GoliGoliGoli]

8 minutes ago, Fego said:

I am from Egypt. But the dermatologist whom I went to told me to apply mesothereby dutastride injection once a week in the clinic  and claims that mesothereby injection remains localized within the scalp and does not go systematic like a topical or oral Fin. I want to know from someone who tried this if that is right to proceed or not 

 

I think posting links is against the rules but search youtube for "Andrew Huberman Kyle Gillet" and go to their podcast at the 56:36 mark

[sunsurfhair]

FYI just saw my dermatologist today for a regular skin check and he’s a very big fan of oral min. He’s seeing excellent results with essentially no sides. He does not go further then 5mg and says most of his patients are on 2.5mg. He is not as much a fan of Finasteride and he said the industry is well aware of the long term effects of the medication. I asked him about topical fin and he said he’s still not sold on it as he has patients that have still had poor side effects from the topical solutions. Any patient that wants oral fin he has them very clearly understand the potential for sides and risk for the longer lasting effects. I said which medication do you feel is a safer bet and he said oral minox by a mile at the dosages being used. He’s a top dermatologist btw - exceptionally well trained and sharp. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by sunsurfhair

[Fego]

32 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

I think posting links is against the rules but search youtube for "Andrew Huberman Kyle Gillet" and go to their podcast at the 56:36 mark

Thank you. I watched it and see the doctor say mesothereby dutastride injection is localized on the the scalp. But why I did not see people  on the forum tried this mesothereby injection and almost of them show their experiment about taking oral Fin. or topical Fin. /Dut.  No one showed his experiment about mesothereby dutastride injection to ignore side effects. 

[Fego]

4 minutes ago, sunsurfhair said:

FYI just saw my dermatologist today for a regular skin check and he’s a very big fan of oral min. He’s seeing excellent results with essentially no sides. He does not go further then 5mg and says most of his patients are on 2.5mg. He is not as much a fan of Finasteride and he said the industry is well aware of the long term effects of the medication. I asked him about topical fin and he said he’s still not sold on it as he has patients that have still had poor side effects from the topical solutions. Any patient that wants oral fin he has them very clearly understand the potential for sides and risk for the longer lasting effects. I said which medication do you feel is a safer bet and he said oral minox by a mile at the dosages being used. 

What is your doctor opinion about mesothereby dutastride injection as medication is it has a long term side effects as well?