Bill - Seemiller Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 My recommendation to anyone that can't wait. Go with fue, and have no more then 500 done in an area where it will not stand out. If you decide it's not what you expected then there is no harm done and the cost is minimal. Frankly, I think this is bad advice. Firstly, 500 FUE can still cost up to $3000-$5000 which I'd hardly call a "minimal" expense. Additinonally, though I believe FUE is a viable solution for some, growth yield is often inferior to strip and isn't appropriate for all patients. Patients considering FUE should consult with leading physicians in the field and work out a long term hair restoration plan that's in their best interest. This may or may not include FUE. Truthfully, a quality physician should be able to tell relatively soon into surgery whether or not a patient is a good candidate. Anyone can extract grafts using "brute force", but the goal should be to produce quality follicular units and minimize transection and donor waste. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member hair_boy Posted January 20, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted January 20, 2009 Old Baldy: you know, I can't take your comments to have any value. I say this because you believe that Dr. Rassman although pulling a bait and switch and using fear tactics should be judged from his past and not his present actions. That's just non-logical and I can't respect such unfair thinking. Once a god, always a god mentality, is too right wing for me... And Dr. Feller has nothing to do with my original FUE result concerns. He being a professional jumped in to do some marketing. I said already there was nothing wrong with that.. and there certainly wasn't anything wrong with taking a closer look to what he was saying. After all, he is one of the few that is providing warnings, however, you really have to read between the lines to find them. You know, you all say you want to hear the experiences people have. And then you all take each comment so personal like we were talking about your family. I think maybe some need a break from this board... And just because doctors don't provide all the information doesn't mean we are against them, and it certaintly doesn't mean they are quacks.. (that's just rude to suggest I implied such a thought). Not being given all the information just mean:. hey you know what... step back.. take a look from this angle before continuing... I think to see before we leap is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 hair_boy, I agree with Old Baldy that your view of the hair transplant profession as a whole is wrongfully tainted by the few bad guys in the industry. I also agree that you are not yet mature enough to undergo hair transplant surgery since you can't seem to accept that all surgery has risks. You've made it clear on another thread that you don't have any respect for this community. And since you have come here for the purpose of insulting forum members and stirring up pointless here say controversy even after I closed the topic to prevent further discussion and insult, I think it's time for you to leave. I wish you the best of luck in your pursuit of hair restoration. However, at this time, I feel that it's better that you are no longer a part of our community. Regards, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Petchski Posted January 20, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 20, 2009 It was clear to me reading Hair_boy's original thread that he called Dr Rassman out pretty well, he came off as more a salesman looking to close the deal, ABC Dr Rassman. Nevertheless, he is a good surgeon and you could do much worse than end up in his chair. When someone comes along and cuts through the BS and rattles some cages, there's always going to be resistance, but for me, it was the most refreshing thing to read for a good while. -------------------------------------- My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Feller Dr Feller Jan '09 2000 grafts Dr Lorenzo Dec '15 2222 grafts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Petchski, The problem with Hair_boy's original thread is that he's arguing here say points that can't be proven either way. Dr. Rassman told me in a private email that he never said any of those things. Hair_boy says he did. Ok, so that was that. But to keep the thread going only offers insult to injury to all parties. So I locked the thread. And then after I gave him a stern warning, he continued the discussion which on this thread. I'm all for a healthy debate, but continued insult and accusations is pointless and distracts from the educational and supporting nature of this community. I trust that as a moderator of another forum, you understand the reasons for my actions. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member PLEASE GROW PLEASE Posted January 20, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 20, 2009 Please grow please: again I don't care about Dr Bisanga's results - it's just not part of what I was saying. Did you read the topic? Or did I just rattle you once again Anyway pmill keep doing your research and I belive its a doctor named Micheles from HDC and Bisanga by himself at BMR. If you need more then 2000 grafts and are under 40 I would be real careful about any fue decision you might make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Jeffrey Epstein MD, FACS Posted January 20, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted January 20, 2009 As a surgeon who performs several FUE procedures a week, I have found an expanding role for this procedure. Any young patient (less than 30 years old) who first of all is at a higher risk of a widened donor site and also cannot decide at this age if he is going to one day want to shave his head is, in my opinion, just as well treated with FUE as the strip- PROVIDED that he has realistic expectations and understands that it is highly unlikely that more than 1800 or so grafts can be obtained in a single procedure (which in my OR typically runs over a two day period (12 to 14 hours total). A very important consideration to keep in mind that has not been even mentioned here is the aesthetics of the transplanted grafts- how these grafts are positioned and distributed. In my experience, this is the single most important factor in terms of the naturalness and density achieved. Jeffrey Epstein, MD, FACS Miami and NYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member SouthCarolina Posted January 20, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted January 20, 2009 Does anyone (patient or doctor) have input on Dr. Harris SAFE FUE procedure? It is supposed to increase the normally lower yield of traditional FUE results. It is explained in detail on his website. This would be especially helpful for those with a low donor count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mr. GQ Posted January 20, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 20, 2009 I trust that as a moderator of another forum, you understand the reasons for my actions. Bill please don't tell me that you've just banned hair_boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member lost my swagger Posted January 20, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 20, 2009 Originally posted by Mr. GQ:I trust that as a moderator of another forum, you understand the reasons for my actions. Bill please don't tell me that you've just banned hair_boy. it appears he has been banned...cant say i agree with the decision..IMHO hair-boy was fair, he did not attack any posters, he simply brought his views to the table, right or wrong. his original thread sparked healthy debate as a whole IMO.. i wish hair_boy the best with his decision, and thank him for taking part on this forum, i hope it continues as, if nothing else, an observer.... *** RESULTS WILL 100%, without a DOUBT, VARY*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member thanatopsis_awry Posted January 20, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 20, 2009 hair_boy had horrible tact, no doubt; he never actually disgruntled me, but he constantly took shots if not outright slander at respected people, who, ironically, are the actual ones in the trenches fighting for the points underneath his umbrella...I could see how this could be taken as extreme disrespect, and it could piss you off in a huge way... That said, I can't say I'd have banned him until he showed a more consistent pattern that he would not change the way in which he conducted his business; he was not a fool, had insight, and made many good points. It's obvious and quite understandable that Bill took umbrage to some of the passive-aggressive attacks -- hair_boy isn't stupid, and he knew this, and continued the course, despite warnings, so it's not like he didn't bring it upon himself in a certain sense.... ----------- *A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics* 1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash. Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician. Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mr. GQ Posted January 20, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 20, 2009 i'll reserve my final thoughts until Bill confirms that banning did in fact took place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member pmill Posted January 20, 2009 Author Regular Member Share Posted January 20, 2009 Originally posted by PLEASE GROW PLEASE:Please grow please: again I don't care about Dr Bisanga's results - it's just not part of what I was saying. Did you read the topic? Or did I just rattle you once again Anyway pmill keep doing your research and I belive its a doctor named Micheles from HDC and Bisanga by himself at BMR. If you need more then 2000 grafts and are under 40 I would be real careful about any fue decision you might make yea PGP i was quoted anywhere from 1000-2000,but thanks for the help,im going to continue doing research on these 2 clinics and try to get in contact or even better meet with 1 of their patients.PGP who did you see in person that got their fue from bisanga?can you elaborate some more on what you thought about the results.any pics?thanks so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member PLEASE GROW PLEASE Posted January 20, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 20, 2009 Ill pm you bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear forum members, Choosing to suspend a member of the forum (new or not) is not an easy decision. I'm pleased to say that suspensions on this forum are still very rare. However, the purpose of our forum community is to educate and support hair loss sufferers. Whereas technical debates are more than welcome, taking continued shots at members of this community (patient and physician) creates a negative tone and distracts from this forum's mission. Hair_boy started out by sharing his experience which followed by a chain of disrespect to valuable members of this community, regardless of how genuine the replies were. Whereas I agree with several of his views on the false claims made by some FUE clinics, his continued attacks against members of this community while ignoring my warnings were unprecedented. Though not everyone is going to agree with every decision the Publishers of this community make, we do our best to protect the mission of this community. Given Hair_Boy's disrespect for the hard work we put into this community and several members, I've chosen to suspend him at this time. Once I made the decision to suspend him, I received a nasty email from him further proving his great disrespect for our community. However, like Lost My Swagger, I wish him the best of luck as he explores his hair restoration options. I appreciate your understanding, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Old Baldy Posted January 21, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted January 21, 2009 I feel somewhat responsible for hair_boy's banning. I didn't mean it to turn out this way. All I was saying is, if you don't trust the HT profession then don't get an HT. Although newbies need to know the BS out there, they also need to know there are reputable surgeons out there along with the fact that HT's are not perfect. That's all I was trying to point out. I understood hair_boy's overall concerns, he just went too far with them IMHO. Here's an example: A few years back I criticized Dr. Rassman for downplaying HM for (what I thought was for) the purpose of keeping his HT business successful. It was a cheap shot because here we are, years later, and HM is still not available. That was all Dr. Rassman was saying. I was wrong to attack him and he was correct when he said, "don't expect HM to come out as soon as others would have you believe". I went too far with my negativity and learned from it. That's all hair_boy needs to do IMHO. Anyway, maybe next time, I'll just keep my big mouth shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mr. GQ Posted January 21, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 21, 2009 Bill, i do agree that hair_boy came across somewhat "strong" right from the start, but i think that clear-cut suspension was a bit too harsh on him. all of us here know that you are one of the first guys to give great advice to newbies and tries to answer some if not the most tough questions for veterans when no one can and therefore you should have been shown(deservingly so) way more respect than what he showed. so could it be that the statements like "it's just paid words" or "i skip over your comments" were taken little too personally? that I guess is up to us to speculate, but it could be very much so the reason why he got banned so quickly. i know that LMS got his second punishment after few verbal warnings in form of one week suspension before he got boot for good from that evil guy Farrel, and i think that hair_boy should have had the same deal. what really happened with him and Dr. Rassman, again who knows, but i personally don't think that he was lying about it. Dr. Rassman in his reply never disputed any of his claims and that's why i think it was not a lie. the way fair punishment system should be set up is in this order and again just my personal opinion: 1. verbal 2. temporary suspension 3. permanent as in three strikes and you out, but what would deterrent be for each? up to you Bill as long as you let us know. this is my honest opinion and observation for all of this. GQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep-hair Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You guys are all so funny. This hairBoy fellow complains about the behaviour he experienced with Dr. Rassman and half of you jump down his throat defending the doctor like hairBoy's experience didn't happen... totally funny.... I agree with Mr. GQ: if what hairBoy said wasn't true then when Dr. Rassman replied he would have pointed that out first thing. I mean, what would you all do yourself if someone was making up stories and you decided to reply? Would you confront the story or just accept it like Dr. Rassman did? The best part of this whole drama: Bill states that he gets an email from Dr. Rassman and presto - hairBoy is banned from the site. Say no more I say - we know who runs these boards and who's opinions can be bought. Well, I have to agree with hairBoy - Bill, it appears you have just been bought ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member PLEASE GROW PLEASE Posted January 21, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 21, 2009 Hello hairboy No one really jumped down your throat about the Rassman comment. I actually believe you for the most part It was about other things you posted . It was either your way or the highway Anyway glad to see you back. Your alright with me.I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member wantego Posted January 21, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 21, 2009 I have been thinking about this and what I have to say is about the board in general not only 1 specific poster. I think most posters like myself come here for HT information, results and support. Some people have very strong opinions about various procedures, doctors, results, etc. That is absolutely fine but I believe when those opinions cross the line in to nasty personal insults pointed at other posters that is really crossing the line. For example if you dont believe in FUE/Strip say I dont believe in FUE/Strip and explain why but dont call other posters idiots, sell outs, liars, pathetic, etc just because they may have a different opinion than you. If your goal is to get people upset with personal insults there are plenty of boards you can do that on but please do not do it here. 4374 grafts-7/2/2008-Dr Rahal 485 singles 2336 doubles 1526 triples 16 quads 9809 total hairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member thanatopsis_awry Posted January 21, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 21, 2009 lol @ jumping down throat about Rassman....I've seen more veteran posters speak out about things concerning Rassman than maybe any other prominent/esteemed doctor. If some people didn't comment one way or the other it's because it's an obv case of hearsay either way and it's foolish to get too caught up there. I wish the guy didn't get banned, but he was/is the most self-righteous and arrogant poster I've ever seen in the land of the follicle....he was cruisin for a proverbial bruisin and he got it. If he placed core truths and the spreading of truth over his own self-serving desires to continue his crusade he could have made some exceedingly simple adjustments and been a force. Too bad, since he knew a good deal of truth and had good insight -- but cmon, can't be too surprised to get the horns when you mess with the bull enough times....he isn't the messiah, and while his valid points will be missed, they aren't singularly important. Bill understands this, IMO, and took a precaution that while I don't know if I fully agree, I fully understand. EDIT -- wantego makes a very good point....it's about striking a balance between vigorous and open debate, and not allowing individual posters to go off on self-righteous crusades that cross lines of respect, *and* truly only detract from the actual valid points that need to be discussed.... ----------- *A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics* 1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash. Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician. Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Mr. GQ, I appreciate the points you have made and will certainly consider it in the future. It's not always easy to decide if and when someone should be suspended. And often times a temporary suspension leads to even more hostility which is why "Hair_Boy" sent me a nasty email the same day I suspended him. He was given verbal warnings prior to his suspension. I trust we can all move on and continue helping hair loss sufferers. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep-hair Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 please grow - i think hairBoy outgrew his youthful boy hair and has gone [deep] under cover please grow - I think hairBoy outgrew his youthful boy hair and has gone [deep] under cover thanatopsis_awry ??“ should we interpret your post as a tad arrogant in itself..? It's not that I can't relate as you probably feel a bit schooled. I mean, when mention of your personal doctor was made, and your opposing arguments lacked luster, it probably didn't make you feel too good. And I'm guessing that doesn't happy too often to you as you seem quite [educated]. Well, I suppose for that reason I understand your smug tone. And personally I find it kind of cute??¦ Bill: I think it was okay for you to ban hairBoy??¦I mean nobody should complain about this??¦ After all, this is your job and if Dr. Rassman emails you such an order, of course we can't hold that against you. Remember, you are just doing your job. You are doing a great [job], so keep up the good work ' By the way??¦ I read on another forum that Dr. Rassman contacted hairBoy yesterday with a follow-up trying to sell him a HT. Makes you wonder who Dr. Rassman thought hairBoy was... does this mean that others had the same experience? Whatever the case, I think the experience hairBoy shared with us is quite common??¦just another one??¦ For me personally, I thought his ethically marketing comment was more interesting and educating as I never understood why doctors even went on these sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member thanatopsis_awry Posted January 22, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 22, 2009 lolz....pretty funny posts all in all, but saying you "schooled" someone and made them not "feel too good" has capped off my evening nicely! So, nice tilt, hair_boy; judging by the constant deflecting of points made, and the desperate attempts to constantly pump yourself up, I think we can assume this is you. And I pray you really are hair_boy and are simply trying to save a little bit of face after the vicious beatdown you've taken....if you aren't, well.... Assuming you can stick around long enough without tilting yourself out and getting banned (again?), I encourage you to enter the actual debates going on, leave the talking points behind, and try to respond to the issues raised, which I assume you are missing due to some form of myopia and impaired eyesight! ----------- *A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics* 1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash. Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician. Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hair_Boy (Deep-hair), Just because you've come back under a new alias with a new IP address doesn't make you a new poster, even though you are pretending to be someone else. In fact, this covert posting solidifies my reasons for suspending you your unsubstantiated claims lose credibility. Your covert posts only prove your level of immaturity For the record, the decision to suspend you was mine and mine alone. Dr. Rassman didn't even request it. I've already laid out the reasons for your suspension, so there's no need for me to repeat myself. Goodbye, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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