Regular Member sunsurfhair Posted July 31, 2022 Regular Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 hour ago, mustang said: It's not low DHT that causes depression, it's the absence of allopregnanolone which converts via 5AR from progesterone to dihydroprogesterone into allopregnanolone which is an essential neurosteroid. Finasteride partially blocks this conversion while Dutasteride completely blocks it. Everything he stated above is completely accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member sunsurfhair Posted July 31, 2022 Regular Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 hour ago, mustang said: I did need surgery The only way to safely use Finasteride for those who are prone to side effects is to use a very low dose (0.25mg 3 times a week) and maintaining a bodyfat below 12%. I am overs implying things but if you stay in shape and your estrogen doesn't spike your LH will maintain healthy levels of testosterone and neurosteroid activity. At least this is what I have seen in all my "friends" What are you using (if anything) to protect your hair now safely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukh123 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Vann said: Just to point out your genetics also make a big role, in addition to your diet. High protein meals like chicken have high levels of estrogen which can create a formation of breast development. But its not like you wake up and go dang... I have double Ds. Its an onset thing you realize is happening to you. Of course you wont be able to pin point why its happening but youll probably think you gained weight, maybe getting a bigger chest from working out, etc. But in reality we dont realize the true cause until its already too late. I'm sure there are trace amounts but I have never ever heard of eating chicken causing gyno, if that was the case we would all need bras . And as narmak said above we need estrogeon and having too low of it can result in libido problems, less healthy bones and mood swings. The problem is when it's not in harmony with testosterone, that's when problems arise. Hence why it's not having too much or too less but more in being balanced, but as you said some people are more predisposed to it due to genetics. Edited July 31, 2022 by sukh123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukh123 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 2 hours ago, mustang said: I did need surgery The only way to safely use Finasteride for those who are prone to side effects is to use a very low dose (0.25mg 3 times a week) and maintaining a bodyfat below 12%. I am overs implying things but if you stay in shape and your estrogen doesn't spike your LH will maintain healthy levels of testosterone and neurosteroid activity. At least this is what I have seen in all my "friends" Yeh man that must have sucked, gyno is a rare occurrence of the drug, but it can happen if your estrogen becomes dominant. I get my blood tested every three months for my Testosterone and free, Estrogen, and FSH to make sure they are all in check. This is why I'm a big advocate of testing, yes it's expensive but it's better to be safe than sorry. I'm also still not sold on topical fin being less prone to sides than oral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member NARMAK Posted July 31, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 2 hours ago, sukh123 said: Yeh man that must have sucked, gyno is a rare occurrence of the drug, but it can happen if your estrogen becomes dominant. I get my blood tested every three months for my Testosterone and free, Estrogen, and FSH to make sure they are all in check. This is why I'm a big advocate of testing, yes it's expensive but it's better to be safe than sorry. I'm also still not sold on topical fin being less prone to sides than oral. One other thing that is very, very important to point out here regarding sides. Even if the chance of something was like 0.01%, it seems that pharmaceutical companies have specifically chosen to label any and all side affects that could be accused of having been caused by any medications whether it be Finasteride or otherwise so as to avoid potentially very costly lawsuits. Just remember that there's an actual scientific study comparing the actual medication with a sugar pill placebo and that there was a less than 1% difference between reported side affects. Closer to 0.5% i believe in the study i had read prior. That's astounding to me and why i think mentally some people blame the drug so much more willingly that it convinced me to take Dutasteride as well as my brother having already done so and tolerated it well who was younger than me. I figured i could stop if necessary and that i would more than likely recover from any issues. Again, i do want to stress, if a new medication or treatment came to market tomorrow blocking more or same scalp DHT at a cost effective price, with a smaller side affect profile than Finasteride/Dutasteride, i'm switching immediately. Because although i do defend use of Finasteride for hair loss as its practically all we have at the moment, i think it's still better for all men to have all access to the DHT in our body if we could "nuke" the scalp DHT entirely. Better yet, find something that entirely stops/destroys the ability for 5AR to convert into DHT causing hair loss in each follicle without any consequence to the rest of our body as a single one off treatment. 2 Follow my first Hair Transplant Journey! Eugenix Hair Sciences | Dr Priyadarshini Das | Full Temple Point Restoration + Hairline | 2010 Grafts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member RTC Posted July 31, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 6 hours ago, sunsurfhair said: How are you doing w topical fin? Any sides? Which one do you use btw? Dutasteride topical, was previously microneedling with 0.01%, now using 0.05%. no sides to report Hattingen September 2023 - Punchouts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member LookMaxx Posted July 31, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 Finasteride has more fearmongers than side effects. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Al - Moderator Posted July 31, 2022 Moderators Share Posted July 31, 2022 What I find crazy is the guys who drink, smoke, and use drugs who then say they don't want to use Finasteride because it has side effects. I'm there thinking - Huh? You obviously don't care what you put in your body, so why are you so worried about something that may actually help you? I just don't get those guys. For me, I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I have never used any illegal drugs. I don't even like taking an aspirin or tylenol. So I really hated taking Finasteride and I'm so glad I stopped years ago. 2 Al Forum Moderator (formerly BeHappy) I am a forum moderator for hairrestorationnetwork.com. I am not a Dr. and I do not work for any particular Dr. My opinions are my own and may not reflect the opinions of other moderators or the owner of this site. I am also a hair transplant patient and repair patient. You can view some of my repair journey here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member NARMAK Posted July 31, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 Just now, BeHappy said: What I find crazy is the guys who drink, smoke, and use drugs who then say they don't want to use Finasteride because it has side effects. I'm there thinking - Huh? You obviously don't care what you put in your body, so why are you so worried about something that may actually help you? I just don't get those guys. For me, I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I have never used any illegal drugs. I don't even like taking an aspirin or tylenol. So I really hated taking Finasteride and I'm so glad I stopped years ago. Like i said, you can't argue and win against stupid. You just end up being more dumb as a result of trying. That said, did you have side affects or stop for another reason? 1 Follow my first Hair Transplant Journey! Eugenix Hair Sciences | Dr Priyadarshini Das | Full Temple Point Restoration + Hairline | 2010 Grafts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Al - Moderator Posted July 31, 2022 Moderators Share Posted July 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, NARMAK said: did you have side affects or stop for another reason? I had some minor erection problems, but I would have kept taking if it actually worked well. I was on it for about 11 years. It helped a bit the first couple of years, but after that I was losing more hair anyway and since I was a NW 7 there was just no point to continue. Some people may say I should have stayed on it to keep my donor area good, but for someone like me who doesn't want to be on any kind of medication, I just felt so much better once I stopped taking it. Al Forum Moderator (formerly BeHappy) I am a forum moderator for hairrestorationnetwork.com. I am not a Dr. and I do not work for any particular Dr. My opinions are my own and may not reflect the opinions of other moderators or the owner of this site. I am also a hair transplant patient and repair patient. You can view some of my repair journey here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mustang Posted July 31, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, BaldBobby said: It really sucks that we still don’t have a medication that protects follicles from DHT without having to reduce DHT. Doesn't CB0301 do that? It is available https://www.farmaciaenandorra.com/shop/CB 7.5 , Clascoterona o CB-03-01 y Alopecia, topical antiandrogen lotion RU58841, hair loss Edited July 31, 2022 by mustang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gillenator Posted July 31, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 There can be endless adjustments made to any of these medications however we all are going to experience variances to these meds. 1 Gillenator Independent Patient Advocate I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk. Supporting Physicians: Dr. Robert Dorin: The Hairloss Doctors in New York, NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member NARMAK Posted July 31, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 49 minutes ago, BeHappy said: I had some minor erection problems, but I would have kept taking if it actually worked well. I was on it for about 11 years. It helped a bit the first couple of years, but after that I was losing more hair anyway and since I was a NW 7 there was just no point to continue. Some people may say I should have stayed on it to keep my donor area good, but for someone like me who doesn't want to be on any kind of medication, I just felt so much better once I stopped taking it. Sorry to hear that. Well, i can understand if you chose to stop in that circumstance. I personally tell guys to try explore alternate solutions like different dosages and perhaps a switch to topical versions to see if it improves the situation. Another side although i'm not saying this was the case for you but generally speaking is to review your physical health such as if somebody maybe gained weight, check if there's any stress factors at play and also a medical check with tests to rule out changes. Follow my first Hair Transplant Journey! Eugenix Hair Sciences | Dr Priyadarshini Das | Full Temple Point Restoration + Hairline | 2010 Grafts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BurnieBurns Posted July 31, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 38 minutes ago, mustang said: Doesn't CB0301 do that? It is available https://www.farmaciaenandorra.com/shop/CB 7.5 , Clascoterona o CB-03-01 y Alopecia, topical antiandrogen lotion RU58841, hair loss only for millionaires haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldDude Posted July 31, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 4 hours ago, mustang said: Doesn't CB0301 do that? It is available https://www.farmaciaenandorra.com/shop/CB 7.5 , Clascoterona o CB-03-01 y Alopecia, topical antiandrogen lotion RU58841, hair loss Nice…has anyone tried this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted July 31, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, BeHappy said: What I find crazy is the guys who drink, smoke, and use drugs who then say they don't want to use Finasteride because it has side effects. I'm there thinking - Huh? You obviously don't care what you put in your body, so why are you so worried about something that may actually help you? I just don't get those guys. For me, I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I have never used any illegal drugs. I don't even like taking an aspirin or tylenol. So I really hated taking Finasteride and I'm so glad I stopped years ago. I see your point, but honestly taking a drug that craters your levels of a necessary hormone could be seen as worse than drinking/smoking/most drugs. Again, people use this drug to transition from male to female... People often talk about "Well I only take 0.5 mg 3 times a week". What they don't realize is just because it sounds like a small amount doesn't mean it is on a physiological level. At least in this single study there wasn't much difference between a 0.2 mg dose and a 5 mg dose. Even the difference between a 0.05 mg and 5mg dose wasn't especially large and it was TWO ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE DIFFERENCE In DOSAGE https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10495374/#:~:text=Conclusion%3A In this study%2C doses,skin and serum DHT levels. Fin is definitely a weird drug. Some people appear to do well on it long term. But saying the symptoms only occur in 2-3% of population seems false to me. People also often get the terms "symptom" and "side effect" confused and use these terms interchangeably. It's totally possible to experience no symptoms but still have side effects that go unnoticed. Edited July 31, 2022 by GoliGoliGoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member A Fue Good Men Posted July 31, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 I don’t mean to be a downer but years back I read a study on dutasteride usage in mpb patients. The study found that even after a significant timeframe after discontinuing the drug, sperm counts remained low in many patients. just something to think about if you plan on having a family 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukh123 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 8 hours ago, BeHappy said: I had some minor erection problems, but I would have kept taking if it actually worked well. I was on it for about 11 years. It helped a bit the first couple of years, but after that I was losing more hair anyway and since I was a NW 7 there was just no point to continue. Some people may say I should have stayed on it to keep my donor area good, but for someone like me who doesn't want to be on any kind of medication, I just felt so much better once I stopped taking it. nw7 so are you completely bald now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member NARMAK Posted July 31, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 14 minutes ago, 5BetaReductase said: I don’t mean to be a downer but years back I read a study on dutasteride usage in mpb patients. The study found that even after a significant timeframe after discontinuing the drug, sperm counts remained low in many patients. just something to think about if you plan on having a family It would be interesting to know if they took a reading before the study started, what timeframe after they took the test and also if there was a change in lifestyle etc. It's also commonly known that certain other factors could be at play for example age and also whether somebody may have shook the snake so to speak before the test. Our sperm counts can vary even with those not taking the medication depending on when they take the samples too. Follow my first Hair Transplant Journey! Eugenix Hair Sciences | Dr Priyadarshini Das | Full Temple Point Restoration + Hairline | 2010 Grafts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member A Fue Good Men Posted July 31, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, NARMAK said: It would be interesting to know if they took a reading before the study started, what timeframe after they took the test and also if there was a change in lifestyle etc. It's also commonly known that certain other factors could be at play for example age and also whether somebody may have shook the snake so to speak before the test. Our sperm counts can vary even with those not taking the medication depending on when they take the samples too. They did….the sample sizes are statistically significant as well. They compared both fin and dut in one study. https://ishrs.org/patients/treatments-for-hair-loss/medications/dutasteride/#:~:text=9%2F71 taking dutasteride 2.5,volume followed these same percentages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukh123 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 3 hours ago, BaldBobby said: Nice…has anyone tried this? the problem is while it does work, its not effective as a standalone and again having to apply it topically is annoying 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldDude Posted July 31, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, sukh123 said: the problem is while it does work, its not effective as a standalone and again having to apply it topically is annoying Yes oral tablets are always better it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukh123 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, 5BetaReductase said: They did….the sample sizes are statistically significant as well. They compared both fin and dut in one study. https://ishrs.org/patients/treatments-for-hair-loss/medications/dutasteride/#:~:text=9%2F71 taking dutasteride 2.5,volume followed these same percentages. doesn't say how many men it happened to or anything, the page just refers to "another study" would be good to see this study as this page just made a reference to it without providing the full background or the data Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member A Fue Good Men Posted July 31, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, sukh123 said: doesn't say how many men it happened to or anything, the page just refers to "another study" would be good to see this study as this page just made a reference to it without providing the full background or the data You’ll need to pay to access the full study but other sites summarize the data pretty well. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17299062/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member HairRun Posted July 31, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 For a while I was playing hit and run with trying very low dose of topical fin and side effects. Eventually I would get them, then wait out a week for the side effects to go away. But for my last one, I'm 2 months out and even though side effects are 95% gone, still not completely. Strongly considering discontinuing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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