Dr Sethi, Eugenix | Three Sittings (Mar 22, Oct 22 & Feb 24) | 11,166 Grafts (inc 3613 BHT)

[Berba11]

On 2/7/2023 at 3:55 PM, Bandit90 said:

Cheers Rafael! Appreciate it looks a bit odd while the crown grows in, but each month brings new growth and it is becoming less Friar Tuck looking! I was always aware it would be the case with how I approached the the two sittings, but equally I have no regrets doing it this way, hopefully another 2/3 months will all look undetectable. Temple wise I know what you mean, one looks a bit more convex than the other, but honestly i'm over the moon with them, being a NW 7 have such temples is a dream to me! 

The left temple would look a little better (not that it looks bad by the way!) with a little more length. Even finer singles from the donor are not quite as fine as the hairs that naturally occur at the temple points, but with more length they’ll blend and soften nicely I found. 

[Bandit90]

20 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

You are right, but there is something about it. Maybe it's how low the crown dips. Maybe it's how terminal the front hairs are, right at the border of the bald. It's like finding giant sequoia at the edge of a desert. You'd expect to find small trees first, and gradually find bigger ones. 

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just that he's bald at a young age. Regardless the point is moot as his crown is now filling in

I do get what you mean, its because the crown dips. Crown dipping is usually associated with much higher hair loss grades, so by completely restoring the front first it doesn't follow a natural NW pattern. On reflection and theoretically speaking, say I was going to put off my second sitting (maybe by a couple of years),then restoring the front & mid scalp and the lower crown in the first sitting, would allow for a more natural looking hair loss pattern (similar to a NW3 Vertex). But as I did the two sitting six months apart, I can live with this small inconvenience. If i was really bothered I probably could do a 1 guard all over the back and sides as i'm in a fortunate position that my scaring is very hard to detect. 

[Rafael Manelli]

7 minutes ago, Bandit90 said:

I do get what you mean, its because the crown dips. Crown dipping is usually associated with much higher hair loss grades, so by completely restoring the front first it doesn't follow a natural NW pattern. On reflection and theoretically speaking, say I was going to put off my second sitting (maybe by a couple of years),then restoring the front & mid scalp and the lower crown in the first sitting, would allow for a more natural looking hair loss pattern (similar to a NW3 Vertex). But as I did the two sitting six months apart, I can live with this small inconvenience. If i was really bothered I probably could do a 1 guard all over the back and sides as i'm in a fortunate position that my scaring is very hard to detect. 

Why didn't you do the whole thing in one go? 

[Bandit90]

13 hours ago, Berba11 said:

The left temple would look a little better (not that it looks bad by the way!) with a little more length. Even finer singles from the donor are not quite as fine as the hairs that naturally occur at the temple points, but with more length they’ll blend and soften nicely I found. 

It's a fair point, also worth adding that i've had 100 grafts behind each temple, which over the coming month will help with aesthetics. Without starting a lengthy debate on temple design (as we know it's quite well covered on this forum) but I do think the asymmetry on my temples helps with the naturalness . 

[Bandit90]

6 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Why didn't you do the whole thing in one go? 

Far too risky. I've had 5.8k scalp grafts to date, and doing that one sitting would just be a no no! 

[Xanadu]

23 minutes ago, Bandit90 said:

Far too risky. I've had 5.8k scalp grafts to date, and doing that one sitting would just be a no no! 

Every case is different and there are several who had that many scalp hairs in one sitting though. GeneralEtwan for example, and I am another.

Your progress looks really good. And the hair greed you talk about with the 2k remaining donor, perhaps consider waiting because you are still young and a lot can happen over the years, so you might need them somewhere in the future.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Xanadu

[Bandit90]

Just now, Xanadu said:

There are several who had that many scalp hairs in one sitting though. GeneralEtwan for example, and I am another.

Your progress looks really good. And the hair greed you talk about with the 2k remaining donor, perhaps consider waiting because you are still young and a lot can happen over the years, so you might need them somewhere in the future.

Every person and case is different. But that said, GeneralEtwan used the same exact same amount  grafts in his first sitting as I did in mine, just those grafts where distributed over the full scalp area, but he still needs a second sitting to improve density and add to the crown and humps (should he wish to of course). I could have had my 5300 grafts from my first sitting used all over my scalp, as opposed to focusing on the front and mid-scalp. Ultimately our end goals are identical, just we chose different routes to get there.  

Agree with your point about banking the scalp grafts for a touch up later on in life. I suppose they do say Greed is one of the seven deadly sins. 

[Rafael Manelli]

29 minutes ago, Bandit90 said:

Every person and case is different. But that said, GeneralEtwan used the same exact same amount  grafts in his first sitting as I did in mine, just those grafts where distributed over the full scalp area, but he still needs a second sitting to improve density and add to the crown and humps (should he wish to of course). I could have had my 5300 grafts from my first sitting used all over my scalp, as opposed to focusing on the front and mid-scalp. Ultimately our end goals are identical, just we chose different routes to get there.  

Agree with your point about banking the scalp grafts for a touch up later on in life. I suppose they do say Greed is one of the seven deadly sins. 

What is the point in saving 2000 grafts “for later”?

 Where would you use them later that you couldn’t use them now? The crown? You’ve already lost the natives there. The front? It was bald too, so why save them for later?

it’s like in a video game where you collect lots of consumable items “for later” and never end up using them 

[Bandit90]

51 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

What is the point in saving 2000 grafts “for later”?

 Where would you use them later that you couldn’t use them now? The crown? You’ve already lost the natives there. The front? It was bald too, so why save them for later?

it’s like in a video game where you collect lots of consumable items “for later” and never end up using them 

Finasteride is only effective at slowing down the hair loss, so over time I could go balder, sides may drop, crown may dips lower and wider ect. My final pattern may look established now, but going bald so young opens up the door for hair loss further on in life (potentially). So I do totally understand the case of saving grafts. That said I do think it is unlikely my hair pattern will progress, and at the first sign I would jump on dut anyway, so I am cool with using up the grafts sooner than later. Lets see how this crown grows anyway, I may not even need a third sitting. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Bandit90

[Rafael Manelli]

32 minutes ago, Bandit90 said:

Finasteride is only effective at slowing down the hair loss, so over time I could go balder, sides may drop, crown may dips lower and wider ect. My final pattern may look established now, but going bald so young opens up the door for hair loss further on in life (potentially). So I do totally understand the case of saving grafts. That said I do think it is unlikely my hair pattern will progress, and at the first sign I would jump on dut anyway, so I am cool with using up the grafts sooner than later. Lets see how this crown grows anyway, I may not even need a third sitting. 

That is an intelligent and well considered plan. I tip my hat to you sir 

[Gatsby]

2 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

What is the point in saving 2000 grafts “for later”?

 Where would you use them later that you couldn’t use them now? The crown? You’ve already lost the natives there. The front? It was bald too, so why save them for later?

it’s like in a video game where you collect lots of consumable items “for later” and never end up using them 

Dude donor hair is DHT resistant. Not DHT proof. Excellent donor management always entails leaving grafts in the bank (which Eugenix understands and excells at). No ship, no matter how sturdy, ever goes to sea without life boats. 

[GeneralNorwood]

8 minutes ago, Gatsby said:

 No ship, no matter how sturdy, ever goes to sea without life boats. 

Unfortunate metaphor dude. DId you ever see "Titanic" ? 🤣

[Gatsby]

6 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Unfortunate metaphor dude. DId you ever see "Titanic" ? 🤣

That’s exactly my point! Even the most bullet proof ships need life boats AKA the Titanic. 

[GeneralNorwood]

7 minutes ago, Gatsby said:

That’s exactly my point! Even the most bullet proof ships need life boats AKA the Titanic. 

Yeah, but Titanic had only 20 lifeboats that could accomadate only half of the passengers. That's why Leo died and he had Norwood 1... Interpretation is obvious 😄

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[MazAB]

I knew those grafts you had implanted into the corridor would make a huge difference in the part line. I don't believe I've ever seen a complete Norwood 7 have a part line like that even after a 2nd transplant, and you still have a ways to go until full maturity! @Rafael Manelli, I can tell you for certain, John's temple points are, well, "on point!" Pictures don't always do justice, but when John and I were together back in October for the 2nd procedure, and I had a chance to see the work up close and in person, it is pure craftmanship. 😎

Follow my Journey with Eugenix and Dr Arika Bansal!

[Bandit90]

I suppose to give full context, you have to appreciate where I started from. Plus ive got another 100 grafts coming through just behind the temple. Its night and day difference if you ask me! I wouldn't want to change anything with it. 

[Rafael Manelli]

1 hour ago, Gatsby said:

Dude donor hair is DHT resistant. Not DHT proof. Excellent donor management always entails leaving grafts in the bank (which Eugenix understands and excells at). No ship, no matter how sturdy, ever goes to sea without life boats. 

How are they lifeboats exactly? Their chance of sinking is just as high as the grafts they put at the front. Keeping them in the back doesn't make them any safer than moving them, so this analogy makes no sense to me. 

[Bandit90]

I guess another analogy would be .. you don't insure your home with the intention of getting burgled! i.e. you are not saving grafts with the intention of of going more bald, but say you did it nice to know you have something! 

[Rafael Manelli]

2 minutes ago, Bandit90 said:

I guess another analogy would be .. you don't insure your home with the intention of getting burgled! i.e. you are not saving grafts with the intention of of going more bald, but say you did it nice to know you have something! 

I understand leaving some in case the sides drop or the crown dips some more. 
 

it’s the argument of “the transplants are not DHT proof, so you should keep some donor reserves in case you need to replenish it” that doesn’t make sense to me, since if the transplant thins, those reserves will thin simultaneously

Edited February 9, 2023 by Rafael Manelli

[Bandit90]

5 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I understand leaving some in case the sides drop or the crown dips some more. 
 

it’s the argument of “the transplants are not DHT proof, so you should keep some donor reserves in case you need to replenish it” that doesn’t make sense to me, since if the transplant thins, those reserves will thin simultaneously

I suppose that works when justifying hair loss meds! 

[MazAB]

6 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

How are they lifeboats exactly? Their chance of sinking is just as high as the grafts they put at the front. Keeping them in the back doesn't make them any safer than moving them, so this analogy makes no sense to me. 

Also, it is a strategy to have more procedures over longer periods as your donor graft pick changes as you normally go thru shedding periods, and no shedding period is the same. So it helps with more homogeneous extraction, as well as lower transection of the grafts.

Mega sessions never have as good of a survival rate as smaller more concentrated sessions. 

Slow and steady wins the race everytime...🐢🐢🐢

[Rafael Manelli]

I thought about it and I guess if you’re going to leave some in reserve, you’re better off leaving them in the central, safest part of the donor, where FUT strips are typically extracted. Those are the elite soldiers. They can be called in when hair from higher up in the donor gets breached.

[Rafael Manelli]

44 minutes ago, Bandit90 said:

 

Do you think you could recreate this photo, but with your hair brushed back, fully exposing the hairline? It would be nice to see where it is in relation to that mole on your forehead 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Rafael Manelli

[Xanadu]

46 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

How are they lifeboats exactly? Their chance of sinking is just as high as the grafts they put at the front. Keeping them in the back doesn't make them any safer than moving them, so this analogy makes no sense to me. 

Because some of them will likely survive and some of them might miniaturize over time. The issue is that we don't know for sure ahead of time which are which. 

So leaving them means that the ones that did not miniaturize can be used later. If we use them all now then some may fall out or miniaturize in unfortunate patterns, and there will be nothing that can be done.

 

[Zoomster]

Lots of overthinking going on here …John is in the midst of a 3 stage process …he’s about halfway through it ..bank grafts ,don’t bank grafts 🤷‍♂️ he will look a million dollars at the end of it all ..and you can take that to the bank !!!