Illusion of density...

[follically challenged]

- A well-known phrase in this industry, but what exactly is it?

I'm wondering how good this 'illusion' would be if i were to get a HT but keep my hair fairly short, and style it short (grade 2-ish).

Would the transplanted frontal third look noticeably different to the natural hairs behind it? Can the natural density (with fine hair in my case) be matched with transplanted density?

Very often i see the transplant results with the classic combed-back style, which I guess, helps blend the HT hairs with the natural hairs.

So, I'm wondering can a HT result look as natural with short hair, or must it always be grown out and slicked back to fully achieve this 'illusion of density'?

Thanks!

[gillenator]

It really comes down to one’s hair characteristics…optimal degree of hair caliber greatly improves the visual illusion of density factor.

[follically challenged]

16 minutes ago, gillenator said:

It really comes down to one’s hair characteristics…optimal degree of hair caliber greatly improves the visual illusion of density factor.

- but does finer hair mean more grafts could be placed in one square centimter, thus creating better density?

[gillenator]

Potentially yes, but it’s going to vary between individuals and also how many multi-hair grafts can be safely placed within a 1cm2 area.

[Melvin- Admin]

Illusion of density requires length, short hair grade 2 requires full density. It will be visibly different of you are say a Norwood 3 with dense hair behind the hairline. 

[LaserCaps]

24 minutes ago, follically challenged said:

- A well-known phrase in this industry, but what exactly is it?

I'm wondering how good this 'illusion' would be if i were to get a HT but keep my hair fairly short, and style it short (grade 2-ish).

Would the transplanted frontal third look noticeably different to the natural hairs behind it? Can the natural density (with fine hair in my case) be matched with transplanted density?

Very often i see the transplant results with the classic combed-back style, which I guess, helps blend the HT hairs with the natural hairs.

So, I'm wondering can a HT result look as natural with short hair, or must it always be grown out and slicked back to fully achieve this 'illusion of density'?

Thanks!

Many "things" have an impact on this "illusion." First consider the limitation and characteristics of the donor area.  Some believe there are over 101 different combinations of hair quality in the donor, ranging from very fine to very course.  It is up to the doctor to choose the hair and to closely match it to what he sees in the recipient area.  Fine hair for hairline, for example, often comes from behind the ear.  (In the old days it would come from the nape.  Soon thereafter they realized this was not such as good idea, particularly if the patient was experiencing retrograde alopecia). 

I've always heard, most patients start out with 100,000 hairs.  By the time they are teenagers, they have lost 50% of their hair and they still do not realize they're experiencing any hair loss.  We have also heard about donor area limitation.  How much hair is available lifetime? 7 - 8,000 grafts? At an average of 2.2 hairs per graft.....So, you are asking 17,000 hairs, plus or minus, to do the job of 50,000.  Of course, it is an illusion! Add more to the mix.....

Color of hair also has an impact.  Dark hair, light scalp does not help. The contrast makes it look worse than what it really is.  Blond, salt and pepper, blend with the color of the scalp and will typically give the illusion of more density. Hair length, as well, will also have an impact. If too long, the weight will pull away from the area and make seem thinner.  There always seems to be a perfect length that allows for the hair to look a lot fuller.  Work with your stylist to figure out what this is.  

I have a question for you.  If you are considering a transplant procedure, it is because you want more hair, not less.  Why would you keep it so short? Just wondering.

The beauty of transplants is the fact that now you can style it any which way.  Comb-over no problem.  Slick-back? No problem either.  Obviously, your current pattern and numbers of grafts will also have an impact.  The more shingling, the better. 

This industry has come a long way when you consider education and the equipment.  Results can be as natural as nature itself. Just make sure you ask about credentials of the doctor. 

Someone told me long ago, the good thing about transplants - it's permanent.  The bad thing, it's permanent.  Thus, if natural - permanent.  If unnatural - also permanent.  Do the research!

 

 

[follically challenged]

17 minutes ago, LaserCaps said:

I have a question for you.  If you are considering a transplant procedure, it is because you want more hair, not less.  Why would you keep it so short? Just wondering.

 

Good question. Well, my hair is so naturally fine that even after a HT i wonder what styles would look decent (and fear that many i would not be able to pull off, and thus would still have to keep it fairly short).

The problem with hair  as fine as mine is that not only does it seem gappy, but it is also looks quite lifeless, for lack of a better word. It hangs straight with absolutely no curl to it at all, and therefore the longer it is can sometimes appear worse...

[LaserCaps]

Fine caliber hair provides for the most natural result. By definition, however, it would take more grafts that someone with courser hair. I think I understand what you mean about hair length.  Perhaps 1/4 inch to a 1/2 inch would be a good length, (keep the hair from falling down.  Work with your hair stylist on this.  

Are you doing any type of medical therapy to help you with retention and perhaps enhancement of the native hair?

[Stewie]

I am a bit the same as you, I was a NW6 and have now had 6000 grafts done in two sessions, just had second one recently so it'll take a while to get the lie of the land and see what's what. But my hair sounds the same, it was thin and sort of see through at shorter lengths anyway, and at the moment with patchy hair from different growth cycles I am constantly shaving to around 0.5-2mm and to me personally I think it looks fine, yes I don't have a full dense head of hair, but it also doesn't look odd IMO, and looks like I have just thinned out on top, but time will tell I guess as I may have to go back for some more filling in down the road

[follically challenged]

3 hours ago, LaserCaps said:

Fine caliber hair provides for the most natural result. By definition, however, it would take more grafts that someone with courser hair. I think I understand what you mean about hair length.  Perhaps 1/4 inch to a 1/2 inch would be a good length, (keep the hair from falling down.  Work with your hair stylist on this.  

Are you doing any type of medical therapy to help you with retention and perhaps enhancement of the native hair?

Not really, no. Taking Biotin, omega 3, and collagen, but have avoided finasteride simply out of fear of sides, though I do question daily whether or not I should just bite the bullet and give it a go 🤔

[kirkland]

4 hours ago, LaserCaps said:

If you are considering a transplant procedure, it is because you want more hair, not less.  Why would you keep it so short?

I can't speak for OP but for me, after buzzing my hair for 25 years, it's a bit of a transition to learn how to have long(er) hair again. I prefer not to be bald but I did appreciate the wash 'n go nature of having short hair. 

[LaserCaps]

12 minutes ago, follically challenged said:

Not really, no. Taking Biotin, omega 3, and collagen, but have avoided finasteride simply out of fear of sides, though I do question daily whether or not I should just bite the bullet and give it a go 🤔

Propecia, Rogaine, PRP and Laser are the modalities we typically refer to when dealing with this condition.  The mechanism of action of each is totally different and are thus synergistic when used simultaneously.  Fin, by the way, is now available as a topical solution.  

[HappyMan2021]

5 hours ago, follically challenged said:

Very often i see the transplant results with the classic combed-back style, which I guess, helps blend the HT hairs with the natural hairs.

Just as you are limited with hair styling options when you are balding, you are also limited hair styling options depending on the quality of your transplant. I too have noted that there is basically a stereotypical post-hair transplant hair style of combing or slicking the hair back. This style suits hair transplants. 

Do not think that because you now have a full head of hair you can do some complex Timothee Chalamet or complicated model-type haircut. Transplants are an illusion of density, and need to be styled accordingly. 

[follically challenged]

7 minutes ago, SadMan2021 said:

Just as you are limited with hair styling options when you are balding, you are also limited hair styling options depending on the quality of your transplant. I too have noted that there is basically a stereotypical post-hair transplant hair style of combing or slicking the hair back. This style suits hair transplants. 

Do not think that because you now have a full head of hair you can do some complex Timothee Chalamet or complicated model-type haircut. Transplants are an illusion of density, and need to be styled accordingly. 

Yes, that was my feeling. 

So what other styles besides the slick-back do you suggest..?

[follically challenged]

40 minutes ago, kirkland said:

I can't speak for OP but for me, after buzzing my hair for 25 years, it's a bit of a transition to learn how to have long(er) hair again. I prefer not to be bald but I did appreciate the wash 'n go nature of having short hair. 

Thanks for the comment but i cant open those images on your thread for some reason, not sure why...

[kirkland]

Not sure why my pics are not loading - they aren't loading on my computer either.

 

[LaserCaps]

24 minutes ago, follically challenged said:

Yes, that was my feeling. 

So what other styles besides the slick-back do you suggest..?

One reason why people may comb the hair straight back could be - they are trying to cover the crown.  In my case, my wife just says I look younger that way.  I think it is smart to part on one side. This allows for the most shingling of the hair.  The point, however, is the fact that by having more hair, it will give you styling options.  

[HappyMan2021]

25 minutes ago, follically challenged said:

Yes, that was my feeling. 

So what other styles besides the slick-back do you suggest..?

this is a good question I don't necessarily know the answer to and it depends on a lot of variables. A great hair transplant full head of hair will never be as good as a natural full head of hair. 

A great hair transplant may still have minor density or textural issues that can make or break whatever look you are going for. And with less than great HT's the problem gets exponentially harder. 

I myself am a fan of a classic, neat side part, but rarely see patients post this hairstyle. I'm not really sure why. Perhaps because good side parts require and show-off the temples, and temple work is so hard with hair transplants. 

If you do get a hair transplant expect to use significantly more styling product than before and more TLC in general with your hair when it comes to styling. 

[Melvin- Admin]

I created this video a while back

 

[follically challenged]

3 hours ago, LaserCaps said:

Propecia, Rogaine, PRP and Laser are the modalities we typically refer to when dealing with this condition.  The mechanism of action of each is totally different and are thus synergistic when used simultaneously.  Fin, by the way, is now available as a topical solution.  

Thinking about it, i guess the main reason for not getting on fin is simply the fear of sides...

But the necessary long-term (forever) use of it also bums me out.

Like, if i had a HT and then got sides 2 or 3 or 5 years down the line, stopped the fin and watch the transplant and fin gains deteriorate in a matter of months would be heart-breaking.

That kind of dependence on a treatment just bums me out, and i can't see it any other way no matter how hard i try...

[follically challenged]

11 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I created this video a while back

 

Also, while it springs to mind, do you think Beckham has had a hair transplant...?

[LaserCaps]

13 hours ago, follically challenged said:

Thinking about it, i guess the main reason for not getting on fin is simply the fear of sides...

But the necessary long-term (forever) use of it also bums me out.

Like, if i had a HT and then got sides 2 or 3 or 5 years down the line, stopped the fin and watch the transplant and fin gains deteriorate in a matter of months would be heart-breaking.

That kind of dependence on a treatment just bums me out, and i can't see it any other way no matter how hard i try...

If you are going to experience side effects, it will be within the first two weeks. If you don't, it's unlikely you will in the future.  Further, and to answer your question, the grafts will remain.  (if they were taken from the permanent area). 

When taking about side effects most refer to Fin, (which is now available as a topical solution). The rest are external to you.  And, if you do experience anything, there are other things you can do to help you retain.  In the event you say "NO TO DRUGS" - or any type of modality, I would then consider hair restoration taking that into consideration.  If you are a Norwood 6, I would then start looking at the way patients lose their hair within that pattern.  They will typically keep a forelock, little density in the mid-scalp and nothing in the crown.  If you are OK with that look, move forward otherwise leave it alone.

[gillenator]

Something that is often over-looked are the changes that can take place in the donor region especially over age 30 and older.

[NARMAK]

On 2/9/2022 at 12:16 AM, follically challenged said:

Thinking about it, i guess the main reason for not getting on fin is simply the fear of sides...

But the necessary long-term (forever) use of it also bums me out.

Like, if i had a HT and then got sides 2 or 3 or 5 years down the line, stopped the fin and watch the transplant and fin gains deteriorate in a matter of months would be heart-breaking.

That kind of dependence on a treatment just bums me out, and i can't see it any other way no matter how hard i try...

I think it's much more unusual to get side affects years down the line that within the first few months. 

In fact, your body would probably have something else going wrong you need to address. 

Transplant hair usually isn't as affected by DHT but the non-transplant hair will suffer somewhat and that's what you described and that will bum you out significantly more imo than having to take 1 pill a day.

Honestly, the worst thing i hear from people is how they haven't bothered to even buy like 1 months worth of Finasteride for like under £20 to actually try see if it works and they don't end up with aide affects. Yet they constantly complain about hair loss and how that's affecting them. 

People literally have no problem popping a paracetamol etc. for a headache or other stuff which also has a risk of side affects, but somehow a pill with like 20 years worth of clinical studies and safety review/approval that has side affects for 2% of people, most of which resolve with discontinued use of Finasteride; is frowned on. 

I just don't get the logic. If somebody told me, "Hey, look, there's a 98% chance this works to slow, stop and if you're very lucky, help regrow hair, i'd be like, "Damn, that sounds like it's worth a try", but instead most guys somehow feel their penis will stop working. 

Seriously, HOW did we get to such a stage that something that occurs so rarely is the biggest cited put off for men to not try. 

I personally am guilty of not trying it sooner, due to sexual side affects being mentioned and presented as being permanent by idiots. That's why i guess i never went back for so long to actually bother looking up the clinical data. Once i did actually see the studies, statistics and results, it completely changed my mind and made me realise how stupid it was NOT to try. 

I would rather be the person that tried to do something and then deal with the rest of whatever crops up, like having to stop, maybe consider a hair system, shaving to a bald head etc. than not knowing imo whether it would have worked. I respect a person who tried it and stopped due to side affects than any simple fear of "What if". @Melvin- Moderator is a great example of a person very candid about his experience with Finasteride and i respect him so much for being the person who is willing to say "Hey, i tried it, didn't quite work for me. However you should give it a go". That's significantly better than the whole PFS movement imo that has destroyed the confidence in a product that may have saved a lot of males anxiety about their hair loss and could potentially have saved their hair had they been on it.

Hair restoration is the #1 goal imo. Surgery is a last resort. Finasteride is a friend in that journey in my eyes for those that can tolerate it. You naturally start having to pop more vitamins etc. to balance your body out with what you don't get. Taking something for your hair isn't a reach. People pop biotin pills regularly too. Yet not regulating that properly can also have some negative effects. 

[NARMAK]

15 hours ago, gillenator said:

Something that is often over-looked are the changes that can take place in the donor region especially over age 30 and older.

Can you please give a small overview. I'm really interested to learn about this a bit more. 

My understanding was that hair in the donor area are considered more DHT resistant but are still affected by DHT. So taking Finasteride etc. can also help keep the quality of the donor area higher for longer. 

I'm in my 30s atm, using Dutasteride 0.5mg/day and am fine with taking this probably for the rest of my adult life to like 70+ maybe but am definitely wanting to mitigate anything that could affect my donor area.